Quick question on rules for USTA?

P

PrinceAce

New User
So in doubles is there a rule that say player whos not serving on the servers side can't stand on the same side the server is standing on on the T? And is it illegal for the non server to stand behind the server as in behind the baseline?


tenniscourt.jpg
Right Sides Serving

NewIFormation.jpg
Right Sides Serving again the dot behind the server is his partner.
 
anantak2k

anantak2k

Semi-Pro
Both are legal as far as I know. The last tennis magazine issue actually called that formation in the second picture the "new double I formation" where the server's partner stands behind them when serving.
 
J

JLyon

Hall of Fame
You can not intentionally distract your opponent, but there is no rule on where players must stand. ITA though does have a new rule that the receivers partner can not step into the receivers service box before the ball is put into play.
 
P

PrinceAce

New User
Both formations are not my own creation I'm not trying to take credit for it it's called "The New I Formation" and "Monster" Formation but could you post the rule for not standing in the the receivers service box?
 
B

blakesq

Hall of Fame
Where you position yourself on the court, cannot be considered a distraction.


JLyon said:
You can not intentionally distract your opponent, but there is no rule on where players must stand. ITA though does have a new rule that the receivers partner can not step into the receivers service box before the ball is put into play.
Click to expand...
 
PatrickB

PatrickB

Rookie
PrinceAce said:
Both formations are not my own creation I'm not trying to take credit for it it's called "The New I Formation" and "Monster" Formation but could you post the rule for not standing in the the receivers service box?
Click to expand...

Note that this is only for ITA (Collegiate) matches:

2009 Friend at Court Part 7 (ITA Regulations) I.C.3 said:
...The receiver's partner shall not stand in the receivers service box before or during the serve. If the player does so, he shall be warned that if he does so again, he is subject to being penalized under the ITA Point Penalty System.
Click to expand...
 
PatrickB

PatrickB

Rookie
PrinceAce said:
So in doubles is there a rule that say player whos not serving on the servers side can't stand on the same side the server is standing on on the T? And is it illegal for the non server to stand behind the server as in behind the baseline?
Click to expand...

Nothing in the rules forbids the serving side from using either of these formations.
 
G

Geezer Guy

Hall of Fame
The server has to stand behind the baseline on the appropriate half of the court.

The other 3 players can stand ANYWHERE they like, on their appropriate sides of the net.
 
B

blakesq

Hall of Fame
thats not positioning yourself. that is making distracting movements. if you make distracting movements anyhwere on the court, you are creating a hinderance.

ttbrowne said:
It can be. If you stand behind the server and make distracting movements...it can be considered a distraction.
Click to expand...
 
J

JavierLW

Hall of Fame
blakesq said:
thats not positioning yourself. that is making distracting movements. if you make distracting movements anyhwere on the court, you are creating a hinderance.
Click to expand...

Im not sure what you're trying to say, it's getting lost in the conversation somewhere.

Are you trying to say that standing behind the server is somehow a hindrance just because it's distracting to you?

I dont agree if someone was to claim that. There are some people believe it or not who have not seen Australian or I formation before so when you do it to them for the first time, YES, it will be distracting to them.

Can they call hindrance on that though? (no they cant)

I agree the hindrance rule is sort of vague and there are things you can do that cross the line and things that one person might find a hindrance and another person may not, but just because something looks different and someone is confused should be different then when someone is purposely doing something that affects their play.

Because it's not stopping them from seeing the ball and hitting it back and making a play on it, self inflicted mental anguish should not be grounds for hindrance.....

I think in some cases you can argue hindrance because people engage in activity that makes you see no real positive purpose behind it other then to distract you.

The returner's partner standing in the middle of the service box seems like one of those. There is no good reason to be there since they are not allowed to hit the ball so it only seems to be to annoy the server. But Im not even sure about that.

Although Id admit the Tennis Magazine's "NEW I Formation" seems pretty strange and meaningless so I might be obliged to think the same thing.

Why the heck do that? They should just play two back and cover more court. In the real I formation one player is a huge threat since they are already at the net so you want to avoid them.

In this one, who cares which one goes to one side or the other? Either way they'll have both sides covered?
 
B

blakesq

Hall of Fame
"Are you trying to say that standing behind the server is somehow a hindrance just because it's distracting to you?"

No. I am saying that you position wherever you want on your side of the court, and it cannot be a hindrance. However, waiving your arms and stamping your feet is a hindrance, whether you are positioned in a normal place, or behind the server.

Also, you do not have to a have a "real positive purpose" to position anywhere you like (unless you are the server, and then you are required to stand in a certain area).

JavierLW said:
Im not sure what you're trying to say, it's getting lost in the conversation somewhere.

Are you trying to say that standing behind the server is somehow a hindrance just because it's distracting to you?

I dont agree if someone was to claim that. There are some people believe it or not who have not seen Australian or I formation before so when you do it to them for the first time, YES, it will be distracting to them.

Can they call hindrance on that though? (no they cant)

I agree the hindrance rule is sort of vague and there are things you can do that cross the line and things that one person might find a hindrance and another person may not, but just because something looks different and someone is confused should be different then when someone is purposely doing something that affects their play.

Because it's not stopping them from seeing the ball and hitting it back and making a play on it, self inflicted mental anguish should not be grounds for hindrance.....

I think in some cases you can argue hindrance because people engage in activity that makes you see no real positive purpose behind it other then to distract you.

The returner's partner standing in the middle of the service box seems like one of those. There is no good reason to be there since they are not allowed to hit the ball so it only seems to be to annoy the server. But Im not even sure about that.

Although Id admit the Tennis Magazine's "NEW I Formation" seems pretty strange and meaningless so I might be obliged to think the same thing.

Why the heck do that? They should just play two back and cover more court. In the real I formation one player is a huge threat since they are already at the net so you want to avoid them.

In this one, who cares which one goes to one side or the other? Either way they'll have both sides covered?
Click to expand...
 
J

JavierLW

Hall of Fame
blakesq said:
No. I am saying that you position wherever you want on your side of the court, and it cannot be a hindrance. However, waiving your arms and stamping your feet is a hindrance, whether you are positioned in a normal place, or behind the server.

Also, you do not have to a have a "real positive purpose" to position anywhere you like (unless you are the server, and then you are required to stand in a certain area).
Click to expand...

Oh okay, I guess you're right about that.

How about if I just sit on the sideline, on a chair, on my opponent's side (outside of the sidelines) and sip a nice cold drink while my partner beats them single handed on his service game?

I guess maybe the test is if it's affecting their physical ability to make their shots or not? (including the "affect" of what making sudden movements and noises make on the person who's hitting the ball)
 
B

blakesq

Hall of Fame
Technically its probably ok. But it does not comport with "sportsmanship", which of course, is a subjective determination.

JavierLW said:
Oh okay, I guess you're right about that.

How about if I just sit on the sideline, on a chair, on my opponent's side (outside of the sidelines) and sip a nice cold drink while my partner beats them single handed on his service game?

I guess maybe the test is if it's affecting their physical ability to make their shots or not? (including the "affect" of what making sudden movements and noises make on the person who's hitting the ball)
Click to expand...
 
OrangePower

OrangePower

Legend
JavierLW said:
Oh okay, I guess you're right about that.

How about if I just sit on the sideline, on a chair, on my opponent's side (outside of the sidelines) and sip a nice cold drink while my partner beats them single handed on his service game?

I guess maybe the test is if it's affecting their physical ability to make their shots or not? (including the "affect" of what making sudden movements and noises make on the person who's hitting the ball)
Click to expand...

Ha, that would be funny! But legal, I think. I saw something similar take place during a combo match. 8.5 combo, 5.0 paired with a 3.5. The 5.0 was self-rated and probably more like a 5.5. During the 5.0s service games, he made his 3.5 partner stand inside the alley right at the net. I watched him serve 3 games this way and did not see the 3.5 hit the ball even once!
 
cknobman

cknobman

Legend
You can stand anywhere you want on your side of the net there is no position rule.

In fact Im thinking of wearing some nut huggers and standing facing my partner and bending over bigtime almost effectively "mooning" the return team. Maybe it will break their concentration and maybe it will give them a target to swing at!!! LOL.
 
J

JavierLW

Hall of Fame
cknobman said:
You can stand anywhere you want on your side of the net there is no position rule.

In fact Im thinking of wearing some nut huggers and standing facing my partner and bending over bigtime almost effectively "mooning" the return team. Maybe it will break their concentration and maybe it will give them a target to swing at!!! LOL.
Click to expand...

Actually I think you can stand on the other side of the net as well as long as you are not standing on or within the sidelines. (unless I missed the part in the rules that specifically mention "your side of the net")

Advantage would be:

- Less likely to get hit with the ball and lose the point, unless they purposely go at you and you are sitting down and you dont want to spill your lemonade so you cant get out of the way....

Disadvantage would be:

- You look like a tool.

- You cant help your partner

- Your opponents will feel bad as you partner wins a game all by himself. (although if they are jerks that could be an advantage)
 
J

JavierLW

Hall of Fame
PrinceAce said:
Its not ausie study the pic and explination within the question closely =]
Click to expand...

You're first one is the austrailian formation, perhaps you use another term? (or you're confused with "canadian" or cutthroat which is 1 against 2?)

Except in a good aussie formation, the server's partner should be a little closer to the center line. It's not as useful or necessary to be that far over to the right. (balls typically pass the net around the center strap)

The second picture is the silly "New I Formation" which was described in the last TENNIS magazine. Ive never seen it before ever before seeing it there.

Id have to be honest, (and direct) the fact that you were asking if these were even legal means you're either kidding for some reason, or you are unaware of these formations. (which is probably easy for the 2nd one although hard to believe you thought of it all the sudden when it just came up, unless the tennis magazine people maybe discovered it recently as well)
 
Last edited:
F

floydcouncil

Professional
JavierLW said:
Actually I think you can stand on the other side of the net as well as long as you are not standing on or within the sidelines. (unless I missed the part in the rules that specifically mention "your side of the net")

Advantage would be:

- Less likely to get hit with the ball and lose the point, unless they purposely go at you and you are sitting down and you dont want to spill your lemonade so you cant get out of the way....

Disadvantage would be:

- You look like a tool.

- You cant help your partner

- Your opponents will feel bad as you partner wins a game all by himself. (although if they are jerks that could be an advantage)
Click to expand...

You can't stand on the opposite side of the net. You must be on your side OF the net when your partner serves.
 
J

JavierLW

Hall of Fame
floydcouncil said:
You can't stand on the opposite side of the net. You must be on your side OF the net when your partner serves.
Click to expand...

You're right, I looked it up this time, it's under the "HINDRANCE" section in the ITF rules:

Case 5: In doubles, where are the server’s partner and receiver’s partner allowed
to stand?
Decision: The server’s partner and the receiver’s partner may take any position on
their own side of the net, inside or outside the court. However, if a player is creating a
hindrance to the opponent(s), the hindrance rule should be used.

So apparently you can go across the net during the point, but you have to start on your own side of the net.

No worry's, you can just sit outside the fence then on your side of the net.
 
L

LionsNC

New User
JavierLW said:
The second picture is the silly "New I Formation" which was described in the last TENNIS magazine. Ive never seen it before ever before seeing it there.
Click to expand...

Glad someone else thought that was Silly, I found it to be one of the stupidist things I ever read in Tennis Magazine and was a little surprise they would even print it.

I understand that some singles players may not be comfortable at the net, but it drives me crazy if I am serving and my parter wants to play back at the base line. Just a pet peeve of mine.
 
J

JavierLW

Hall of Fame
LionsNC said:
Glad someone else thought that was Silly, I found it to be one of the stupidist things I ever read in Tennis Magazine and was a little surprise they would even print it.
Click to expand...

I agree, it's the silliest thing Ive seen in there as well.

But Im sure some people will complain about this, but I wasnt all that surprised.

Ive been seeing issues of Tennis Magazine since the 80's, and it's amazing how some of the stuff gets in there. (weird ideas, contradictory ideas, etc.....)

But you have to write about something I guess when you put out a monthly magazine like that, they cant just fill the ENTIRE thing with ads. Like I said it must of been a really slow month. :)

I used to like Tennis Magazine just for the equipment ads, but that was before companys started making websites.
 
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