Pickle9
Professional
LeeD is a legend.
penetrating slice tips
- Thread starter 2ndServe
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LeeD is a legend.
JoelDali
Talk Tennis Guru
I've always aggravated....
Ditto the Ken Rosewall BH.
I've seen a video long time ago where his BH "slice" was described as a "knocker":
1. NOT chopping thru the bottom of the ball, but "knock" or push it forward *firmly*.
2. Racket face almost vertical, finished facing the right instead of facing upward like a regular backspin slice.
3. For returning high bouncing topspin shots, use a side-armed "semi-smash" motion, kinda like a squash/racketball high BH.
Gee... I think this down-the-line shot can pissed off even Nadal
TomT
Hall of Fame
This is true, I think. But then, so is JoelDali. Come to think of it, you, Pickle9, are something of a legend ... in my mind. Hmmm. Is it possible that my criteria for conferring legendary TT status are ... too limited? Or, have certain of your witty replies allowed you entry into a pantheon of elite, and perhaps immortal in a certain limited sense, TT posters? Is it possible that after less than 300 TT posts so many of them are of such high caliber that you have become, in the eyes of many, or the few, a TT legend? Hmmmm. Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
Nevertheless, I hope you (and LeeD, and JoelDali, etc. etc. etc.) continue posting in your unique modes or styles or whatevers. It's definitely most entertaining (and, hopefully, motivating ... though in what sense that term might be applicable I don't know) for dilettantes such as myself.
If this was a bit off topic, well, excuse me, get over it. Then again, I do think that the question of how to hit penetrating slices had been adequately answered before this post. Then again, that wasn't the OP. The OP asked for videos of advanced penetrating slice technique(s). So ... post some videos of advanced penetrating slice technique(s).
And, just like that ... they were back on topic.
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Pickle9
Professional
Bravo10char
TomT
Hall of Fame
Thanks Pickle. Is that the highest accolade? I hope so, because I put quite a bit of effort into that post. Lots of stress.
Hello ... videos anyone?
Povl Carstensen
Legend
Notice the amount of sidespin. You can see Federers balls curl.
Pickle9
Professional
Well, it's the best I could think of. You've made the GOATers of Tennis Talk the greatest forum on the Internet for discussing all things that are and are not tennis proud.
Pickle9
Professional
Yes, and that seems important to a good slice that slides of skids.
Anyway, below is a video of one way that I hit it. Yes, I know, contrary to your request, these are low level and not very advanced at all, but it works for me, and I didn't feel like searching for relevant pro vids.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p4Q3Dxc2uk
You are way too humble. Those are excellent slices.
Connors Fan
Rookie
Hmmm, I love that piece of advice. I have started to abandon my 2hbh and play a predominently one handed slice. Thinking about what you said, and my match last night, it fits pretty well. When I was aiming at a spot, the shot came off pretty well, when just hitting the ball, I tended to pop it up.
Nice tip, thanks!
dennis10is
Banned
There probably are lots. Rosewall, Federer, Wawrinka, Youzny, and Haas come to mind. I think you might find lots more of what you're asking about by checking out vids of players from the '70s and '80s.
Anyway, below is a video of one way that I hit it. Yes, I know, contrary to your request, these are low level and not very advanced at all, but it works for me, and I didn't feel like searching for relevant pro vids.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p4Q3Dxc2uk
What some posters said about not hitting it too choppy, hitting it almost flat, slightly undercut, with forward body movement if possible is good advice I think. Hitting it deeper and faster (penetration) is just a matter of the forward momentum you impart to the ball. A deep, hard hit, slightly undercut ball that skids real low can be tough for anybody to handle. But slices that hit in no mans land near the sidelines can be very effective also. (as I suppose you know, which is why you started the thread)
some nice ones. We're going to be in Ft. L for Miami Open. You want to get together and trade slices?
TomT
Hall of Fame
@ Pickle9,
haha, most entertaining. Would you call those potential internet memes? Or what?
@ thecode,
Thanks. Yes, those aren't bad slices. However, regarding being too humble, I don't think so. If we ever play, then you'll see why. I make lots of stupid errors. Anyway, yeah I guess one could take the humble thing to an unacceptable extreme, but I've learned that, in general, and in moderation, humble (which sort of goes hand in hand with thankful) is a good attitude to have. If only because it, apparently, generates a lot less hostility than, say, boastful arrogance. (But there are other, much more important, reasons to be humble and thankful.) Unless the goal is to annoy the crap out of one's opponent, and then boastful, or even quiet, arrogance can, unfortunately, be quite an effective gaming or psychological ploy. But I only want to win because I played better than my opponent, not because I annoyed the crap out of him/her.
Although, come to think of it, if I happen to win partly because my outgoing and positive, yet humble and thankful, personality happens to annoy the crap out of an arrogant opponent, then I'm quite happy to take that.
@ dennis10is,
I assume you're referring to the Sony Open March 18-31 at the Crandon Park Tennis Center on Key Biscayne. Thanks for reminding me. Wow, that's right around the corner isn't it. I do want to catch a couple days of it if I can. Currently still recovering from a recent Crohn's flare. Another colonoscopy March 12 (then probably a new medication regimen). But would love to trade slices with you while you're down here if I'm able. I probably won't be full strength competitive during the interval of the Open, but hopefully will be able to at least hit ok.
You can contact me via my Talk Tennis profile.
haha, most entertaining. Would you call those potential internet memes? Or what?@ thecode,
Thanks. Yes, those aren't bad slices. However, regarding being too humble, I don't think so. If we ever play, then you'll see why. I make lots of stupid errors. Anyway, yeah I guess one could take the humble thing to an unacceptable extreme, but I've learned that, in general, and in moderation, humble (which sort of goes hand in hand with thankful) is a good attitude to have. If only because it, apparently, generates a lot less hostility than, say, boastful arrogance. (But there are other, much more important, reasons to be humble and thankful.) Unless the goal is to annoy the crap out of one's opponent, and then boastful, or even quiet, arrogance can, unfortunately, be quite an effective gaming or psychological ploy. But I only want to win because I played better than my opponent, not because I annoyed the crap out of him/her.
Although, come to think of it, if I happen to win partly because my outgoing and positive, yet humble and thankful, personality happens to annoy the crap out of an arrogant opponent, then I'm quite happy to take that.
@ dennis10is,
I assume you're referring to the Sony Open March 18-31 at the Crandon Park Tennis Center on Key Biscayne. Thanks for reminding me. Wow, that's right around the corner isn't it. I do want to catch a couple days of it if I can. Currently still recovering from a recent Crohn's flare. Another colonoscopy March 12 (then probably a new medication regimen). But would love to trade slices with you while you're down here if I'm able. I probably won't be full strength competitive during the interval of the Open, but hopefully will be able to at least hit ok.
You can contact me via my Talk Tennis profile.
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dennis10is
Banned
dennis10is
Banned
@ Pickle9,
@ thecode,
Thanks. Yes, those aren't bad slices. However, regarding being too humble, I don't think so. If we ever play, then you'll see why. I make lots of stupid errors. Anyway, yeah I guess one could take the humble thing to an unacceptable extreme, but I've learned that, in general, and in moderation, humble (which sort of goes hand in hand with thankful) is a good attitude to have. If only because it, apparently, generates a lot less hostility than, say, boastful arrogance. (But there are other, much more important, reasons to be humble and thankful.) Unless the goal is to annoy the crap out of one's opponent, and then boastful, or even quiet, arrogance can, unfortunately, be quite an effective gaming or psychological ploy. But I only want to win because I played better than my opponent, not because I annoyed the crap out of him/her.
Although, come to think of it, if I happen to win partly because my outgoing and positive, yet humble and thankful, personality happens to annoy the crap out of an arrogant opponent, then I'm quite happy to take that.
@ dennis10is,
I assume you're referring to the Sony Open March 18-31 at the Crandon Park Tennis Center on Key Biscayne. Thanks for reminding me. Wow, that's right around the corner isn't it. I do want to catch a couple days of it if I can. Currently still recovering from a recent Crohn's flare. Another colonoscopy March 12 (then probably a new medication regimen). But would love to trade slices with you while you're down here if I'm able. I probably won't be full strength competitive during the interval of the Open, but hopefully will be able to at least hit ok.
You can contact me via my Talk Tennis profile.
no competition from me. I just want some relaxing bh to bh slice exchanges during the Florida sun.
TomT
Hall of Fame
As well you should be. On 8th Ave? Yes, definitely exercise extreme caution. The 7 P's come to mind.
In the words of the Maharishi Rajiv Vinderneau during a break in one of his seminars during which he would berate various musical instruments:
Maharishi Rajiv Vinerneau said:
One wonders what he might have said about the infusion of powdered petrified pterodactyl penis, the rarest of all preparations, had he lived through the procedure.
Or am I missing your point?
TomT
Hall of Fame
Great. I should be able to do that. Looking forward to it.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
Yes, I think there is a point in adding sidespin, or more precisely, combining underspin and sidespin. You get a lot of bite on the ball, but if it was all underspin it could easily float.
Pickle9
Professional
Thud and blunder
Semi-Pro
Sometimes you face slices that just seem to shoot through the court, and barely seem to get up after the bounce...and you think, how did they do that?
Answer: (besides an obliging court surface), PACE. More pace, more skidding angle.
Pace is the word
Answer: (besides an obliging court surface), PACE. More pace, more skidding angle.
Pace is the word
JoelDali
Talk Tennis Guru
I got scared and returned it. My dog looked at me funny when I took it out of the bag. I hate to upset him further.
TomT
Hall of Fame
Gotta trust that doggy sixth sense (then again, also gotta consider that these are animals that greet each other with an inordinate amount of butt sniffing). In any case ... beware 8th Ave bargains.
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TomT
Hall of Fame
I agree with these statements. As an illustration, and since the OP didn't specify just backhands (so I assume forehand examples are ok as well ... see, eg., the forehand slices, especially Dolgopolov, in some of the pro vids I linked to in previous posts in this thread), here's an example of an effective, somewhat biting, skidding, sidespun forehand slice that won a point against a higher rated (and much younger) opponent of mine late last year. (Note: It's a very short vid of just one return of serve, in slow and slower motion, and you can actually see it curving, in flight, away from my opponent.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_DpLW9a88w
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TomT
Hall of Fame
Regarding my posts #71 and #77, I do hope that my rather lame attempts at humor didn't offend anyone. If anyone was actually offended, then perhaps you just need to get out a bit more.
In any case, I vow to refrain from any similar behavior in the future. (Oh. I just noticed that I have my fingers crossed. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahaha.)
Videos people, videos.
In any case, I vow to refrain from any similar behavior in the future. (Oh. I just noticed that I have my fingers crossed. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahaha.)
Videos people, videos.
dennis10is
Banned
I'm sorry Tom, but I'm so busy helping people here that I don't have time to make a video to demonstrate. I look at myself in the mirror and I humbled just to think that the glorious person I see is me. I'm so kind, so giving.
TomT
Hall of Fame
Did you forget brilliant and dynamically good looking? Which, in addition to the glorious humbleness and magnanimity that you mentioned, is what I see when I look in the mirror ... which is often and long.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
We should have an interesting hitting/playing session considering our combined wonderfulness.
But I can't let you off the hook regarding posting videos Dennis, as you know how everyone loves vids, and being that the OP specifically requested them. Chop chop.
dennis10is
Banned
Did you forget brilliant and dynamically good looking? Which, in addition to the glorious humbleness and magnanimity that you mentioned, is what I see when I look in the mirror ... which is often and long.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
We should have an interesting hitting/playing session considering our combined wonderfulness.
But I can't let you off the hook regarding posting videos Dennis, as you know how everyone loves vids, and being that the OP specifically requested them. Chop chop.
The OP said that if you give advice you must provide a video of you demonstrating the application of that advice.
I've not offered any advice hence I'm excused.
Sotto vocce "if they see my magnificents, it will make them feel bad, so I make sure not to give any tennis tips that are stroke related".
Looking forward to hitting with you. You don't mine if my assistants bring 8 full length mirrors to the court so that I may gaze at my wondorousness at every turn? I assume you have yours?
Povl Carstensen
Legend
Not to take anything away from you, but it seems that you were lucky enough to hit the service line also!
But nice return. I am looking foreward to completing a Federer stop ball serve return some time in my life.
thanks, yes, and I meant to say slides OR skids :???:
I agree the sidespin work helps to avoid floating it.
TomT
Hall of Fame
Ok.
Hmmm. I think this might be floating about, somewhere over my head (partly due to the Italian phrase ... that is Italian, isn't it?). Nevertheless, I also don't give tips (especially stroke related). But just post videos for amusement and/or criticism.
Mind? Of course not. Actually, if you bring yours, then I can give my mirror bearers the day off (without pay of course ... it's ok, they're just happy to have some sort of paying job and protection from deportation).
I see that Povl and thecode have gotten us back on topic ... and none too soon as I'm pretty sure we've milked the references to our wonderfulness quite enough (though it is a demonstrable fact).
TomT
Hall of Fame
Actually, it was also sort of lucky that it cleared the net. I'm not sure I'd be able to count the number of really nicely stroked balls that I've hit into the top of the net. Although, when I remember to actually look at the ball then my success rate goes way up.
Thanks. What's a "Federer stop ball serve return"? A drop shot?
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TomT
Hall of Fame
Yes, must agree with this. In my experience anyway, the most effective sliced shots have a certain amount of sidespin.
Interestingly, my sliced shots are the only shots of mine that my opponents have commented on (other than my serve) as giving them any sort of problem.
It's an important shot for anyone to have in their arsenal, I think, and for players of my age, who, like me, lack the mobility and stamina to stay in extended topspin rallies, it can be a very effective attacking weapon.
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Povl Carstensen
Legend
Sorry, yes drop shot. In my native danish it is called a "stop ball", he...
Here is one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqDxPtbmAJk
Funny, he seems to excuse himself afterwards, allthough I think the shot was on purpose.
TomT
Hall of Fame
Thanks Povl. Oh yeah, for sure Federer's drop shots are on purpose. He's a tennis genius, but a very polite and considerate one.
TomT
Hall of Fame
Yes, all the good 'driving slicers' seem to do this. And, if you just visualize hitting the shot in your mind you can see why. It's an integral part of the mechanics necessary to impart maximum forward momentum to the ball.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
Like stepping down and forward on your front (right) foot at the same time?
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My take, as usual, counter's yours.
It's SILLY and somewhat arrogant to think YOUR heavy slice which beats all YOUR buddies to work against a new player.
No matter how effective YOUR slice is against YOUR buddies, somewhat will treat it like a sitter.
Even the best slice from Haas get's pummelled by someone.
It's SILLY and somewhat arrogant to think YOUR heavy slice which beats all YOUR buddies to work against a new player.
No matter how effective YOUR slice is against YOUR buddies, somewhat will treat it like a sitter.
Even the best slice from Haas get's pummelled by someone.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Some slices:
https://vimeo.com/61002491
I use the two-hander more often, and still can't return worth a hoot with the slice, but it keeps getting better every year.
Also, I can almost, kind of, volley now. So that is enough to make me believe in miracles and keep practicing.
J
https://vimeo.com/61002491
I use the two-hander more often, and still can't return worth a hoot with the slice, but it keeps getting better every year.
Also, I can almost, kind of, volley now. So that is enough to make me believe in miracles and keep practicing.
J
TomT
Hall of Fame
Wow. Very nice strokes J011yroger. Looks like you have a very solid slice technique.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Povl Carstensen
Legend
Just saw some Bill Tilden videos in another thread. What great and modern looking bh slices.
Hmgraphite1
Hall of Fame
Just came across this slice fest from 2012 thought i'd put it here and read through this thread
C
Chadalina
Guest
Both guys follow through from the inside of the ball, gives it a funky screwball bounce and is much safer with racket speed.
Swing path is what makes a great slice, its like landing a plane vs a helicopter, every shot has a different trajectory for the perfect landing. Makes the slice fun, trying to keep it low.
mntlblok
Hall of Fame
You still playing in the Ft. Lauderdale area?@ Pickle9,
@ thecode,
Thanks. Yes, those aren't bad slices. However, regarding being too humble, I don't think so. If we ever play, then you'll see why. I make lots of stupid errors. Anyway, yeah I guess one could take the humble thing to an unacceptable extreme, but I've learned that, in general, and in moderation, humble (which sort of goes hand in hand with thankful) is a good attitude to have. If only because it, apparently, generates a lot less hostility than, say, boastful arrogance. (But there are other, much more important, reasons to be humble and thankful.) Unless the goal is to annoy the crap out of one's opponent, and then boastful, or even quiet, arrogance can, unfortunately, be quite an effective gaming or psychological ploy. But I only want to win because I played better than my opponent, not because I annoyed the crap out of him/her.
Although, come to think of it, if I happen to win partly because my outgoing and positive, yet humble and thankful, personality happens to annoy the crap out of an arrogant opponent, then I'm quite happy to take that.
@ dennis10is,
I assume you're referring to the Sony Open March 18-31 at the Crandon Park Tennis Center on Key Biscayne. Thanks for reminding me. Wow, that's right around the corner isn't it. I do want to catch a couple days of it if I can. Currently still recovering from a recent Crohn's flare. Another colonoscopy March 12 (then probably a new medication regimen). But would love to trade slices with you while you're down here if I'm able. I probably won't be full strength competitive during the interval of the Open, but hopefully will be able to at least hit ok.
You can contact me via my Talk Tennis profile.
mntlblok
Hall of Fame
That is *so* much more fun to watch than most tennis on TV. *Love* seeing the variety - and the skill required to pull it off.
Reading back through the thread, it's interesting to see where I was six years ago with my understanding of slice. As someone who has had to go to it off both sides, I've put a good bit of study and experimentation into it.
Still watching some of the videos that were linked to in the thread. Some great stuff, there. One of the most enlightening things I found was a "comment" made on YouTube by a fellow who played against Rosewall. He noted that Muscles' nasty backhand had very few rotations of spin on the ball. It was, apparently, a mostly "flat" backhand - an extremely effective shot, in my experience, but one that is difficult to pull off by most mortals - *especially* if the incoming ball is not in the perfect strike zone height range.
One thing that I *have* picked up on in that six year interim is that the controlling factor in whether a slice "skids" is whether it arrives at an angle of 20° or less. See _Technical Tennis_ by Lindsey and Cross - who also post the nifty stuff here in the TW University.
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