Chinese Swimmer on Drugs?

volleygirl

Rookie
Which Olympics events did they participate in?

No, I don't think everyone is clean and I don't think everyone is doping.


Wanted to see if you thought they did enough to be thought of as cheating or if you just closed your eyes to it all and said, "nope, they were able to pass the tests so they are clean."
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
LOL the US "coach" is appearing to be more and more of a fool:

Australian swimming great Ian Thorpe insisted that the large improvements Ye had made to her personal best in the past year were not unusual.
"We have to remember that young swimmers can take chunks of time off that other people can't," Australian swimming legend Ian Thorpe told the BBC.
Former British swimmer Adrian Moorhouse, a gold medallist in the 100m breaststroke in the 1988 Seoul Games, issued a strong defence of Ye, saying it was possible China had unearthed their own Michael Phelps.
"I think it's sour grapes," Moorhouse said when asked about Leonard's comments. "I think it's quite insulting actually."
 

krz

Professional
Keep in mind the 15yo Ruta bested her 100m time by over 2 seconds to take gold and yet not one person questioning that.

It's really embarrassing for us (by us I mean the USA) to act like this after losing.
 
Remember that Lochte may not have been at his best, she could have had a Rosol-like experience. Lochte may not be the best male swimmer. It could be some fisherman's son in a remote island. Trying to say that Lochte must somehow be better than any female out there in every single part of a race assumes he is the supreme representative of males on that given day. None of this needs to be true.

While in some fields the best are always men, it is not true for the next tier of men and women. What is true though is that inferior men pile on the superior men to make themselves appear superior.

The water was on fire against Lochte. :twisted:

Other than that, she did the first 50 meters faster than a certain Olympic champion as well.

The sad reality is, that everybody is bowing to the current status quo. Doping is rampant in Pro-sports and the new Super Power is doing exactly what the other did on their day.
 

Topaz

Legend
Keep in mind the 15yo Ruta bested her 100m time by over 2 seconds to take gold and yet not one person questioning that.

It's really embarrassing for us (by us I mean the USA) to act like this after losing.

Did you see the men's team gymnastics? The emo Japanese men didn't like 4th place, so they filed a grievance, and were awarded silver.
 

Topaz

Legend
Is nobody questioning how the American came back from being in the pack to having a sizable lead in the third leg of the race?

Is it perhaps that the Chinese swimmer is just that much better at freestyle than the other strokes?
 

Shangri La

Hall of Fame
haha... another gold for Ye Shiwen!! trailing into the last stroke, again she beat others by about 1 second in the last 50m freestyle. Let the sour grapes fly!
 

CCNM

Hall of Fame
If Ms. Ye is found to have illegal substances in her body, then it would be yet another disappointment. :( I was telling my brother I couldn't believe how big the swimmers (men and women) were-Phelps looks like he's wearing American Football-style shoulder pads. And he said "'roids".
 

Tammo

Banned
don't u ever just have those days where everything is just going great? like u are unstoppable, maybe today was one of her days.
 

Shangri La

Hall of Fame
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/368857/20120731/ye-shiwen-olympics-china-accusations.htm

This "US coach" is just making a big fool of himself, LOL. The US Olympic Committee (USOC) has distanced itself from Mr Leonard’s comments – its spokesman, Patrick Sandusky, told the BBC the Americans were trying to smooth things over with the Chinese.

A member of USOC’s international relations team is expected to make contact with the Chinese Olympic Committee later on Tuesday, says the BBC’s David Bond.

the U.S. Olympic Committee, or USOC, has been embarrassed enough by Leonard's comments to already play damage control.

"We are reaching out to the Chinese and their Olympic committee to ensure they know that this gentleman [Leonard] is not part of our delegation, USA Swimming or the US Olympic Committee," said a USOC spokesperson, adding, "His comments are an independent view and not from us."

Lord Colin Moynihan, the head of the British Olympic Association, told the press that "[Ye]'s been through [World Anti-Doping Agency's] program, and she's clean. That's the end of the story. Ye Shiwen deserves recognition for her talent."

Arne Ljungqvist, the medical commission chief for the International Olympic Committee, told a press conference that "it is very sad that an unexpected performance is surrounded by suspicions. ... To raise suspicion immediately when you see an extraordinary performance -- to me it is against the fascination of sport."

and Mr. Ryan Lochte himself

Ryan Lochte's own comments were somewhat curious. The American swimming star noted that "if [Ye] was there with me, she might have beat me."

How exactly? She would have been an entire pool's length behind him
 

jemsiter

Rookie
Good job for US Olympic Committee (USOC) to distance itself from Leonard’s comments.

It is sad how some people's first reaction when someone has a great performance and beat them is "they must be cheating!"

When someone beat you, you should accept the fact he/she is better. Learn from the defeat, work hard, improve yourself, and compete again. You should not waste your time and energy and complain like a crying baby

All athletes have been through numerous tests. I don't know what else has to be done to dismiss all the suspicions?
 

krz

Professional
I just don't understand how her supporters assume she's not doping.

And the others assume she is doping. Hello pot, meet kettle.

She very well could be doping. But, I don't like jumping to conclusions based on the some random comment from a bitter coach.
 

maverick66

Hall of Fame
It is sad how some people's first reaction when someone has a great performance and beat them is "they must be cheating!"

The athletes are at fault for this. Maybe not the current crop but how many times have athletes been caught in the past. Sadly we are a world of easiest way to the top. Not the right way but whatever works fastest.
 

WildVolley

Legend
The performance is highly suspicious, but I wouldn't openly announce that I think she was doping, especially if I were an American coach.

However, people have gotten away with it in the past. I don't know of any knowledgeable track fan who thinks Flo-Jo's world record in the 100 meters wasn't drug aided, not to mention her Olympic record.
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
Did you know that American Competitors cannot be tested for doping during the Olympics because the US Government guarantees that they will not take anything illegal???!!!

If true, the sports part of the Olympics is no more...
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
Did you know that American Competitors cannot be tested for doping during the Olympics because the US Government guarantees that they will not take anything illegal???!!!
Huh? Source or you're full of something... the US athletes get tested like everyone else. Before the Games it was announced ALL medal winners would be tested. If any medal winner skipped out on the testing I'd hope the IOC would pull their medal.

Some of the comments are hysterical. Chinese have been caught cheating quite a bit. Remember the Beijing fake ages of the female gymnasts?:

http://voices.yahoo.com/dong-fangxiao-chinese-gymnastics-team-stripped-5925316.html

US coach should have worded his suspicions more diplomatically.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
So the Chinese have one outstanding result and people start questioning if PEDs are the reason.

A single American wins 7 gold medals in one Olympics and he's a hero.

What is wrong with this picture?
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Some of the comments are hysterical. Chinese have been caught cheating quite a bit. Remember the Beijing fake ages of the female gymnasts?:..
That was a total classic. She had been competing with one birth year - as found online for multiple gymnastics competitions in China - and then entered the Olympics with a different birth year. The Chinese denied it... and the evidence was systematically removed from the sites where it was found. I didn't realise until now that it had been taken further after the games and they were been stripped of their medal.

Having done business with Chinese companies on many occasions I have no doubt they would do anything to win. They way they conduct business is more sneaky than any others I have dealt with. And it's not anomaly either, it's standard, daily business practice.
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
So the Chinese have one outstanding result...
Did you hear what happened? She was 3rd or 4th, and swam a final leg FASTER than the male winner of the same event. She wasn't one of the favorites coming into the Games. I think the world is too cynical - but this doesn't add up.

Funny how the world is kissing up to China now that they have money. We'll see how long that lasts...
 

mucat

Hall of Fame
http://msn.foxsports.com/olympics/s...zing-performances-do-not-mean-cheating-073112


I think I have it figure out now. The Chinese has been cooperating with extraterrestrials and borrowing medical and biological technologies from those advance extraterrestrials in secrecy.

This goes hand-in-hand with why Federer is breaking all the records, he is a damn alien.

Time to dig up those tinfoil hats I have been hiding in the backyard...Wait, that's lot of helicopters flying on top of ......
 

krz

Professional
Funny how the world is kissing up to China now that they have money. We'll see how long that lasts...

13630635.jpg
 

mucat

Hall of Fame
Did you hear what happened? She was 3rd or 4th, and swam a final leg FASTER than the male winner of the same event. She wasn't one of the favorites coming into the Games. I think the world is too cynical - but this doesn't add up.

Funny how the world is kissing up to China now that they have money. We'll see how long that lasts...

Someone posted this comment in national post:
Another dishonest tactic of this "writer" is that he bases much of the "impossibility" of Ye's achievement in that her "final 50-metre freestyle split that was faster than the gold medal-winning equivalent by Ryan Lochte in the men’s race". Naturally, many readers, as demonstrated in the comments below, have interpreted that to mean the Ye actually BEAT Lochte's time, which is hilariously off-base and untrue.

The fact is and what this "journalist" fails to mention is that Lochte swam the 400m individual medley over TWENTY seconds faster than Ye in their respective finals, and that he also BEAT her in the 100m freestyle split when considering BOTH laps.

It is well-known that Lochte often goes all out in the beginning of races, and fades near the end. That was well demonstrated in the 4x100 relay finals in which Lochte himself said he was "too excited" and over-swam the first 50m and therefore not leaving enough gas for the final lap, and as we all know, ended up losing the race to Yannick Agnel and the French team.

It is also well-known the Ye employs almost the opposite strategy. Like many other swimmers, she conserves her energy for much of the race and then explodes at the end. Like even John Leonard admitted, her splits from the other 300 meters were "quite ordinary". She did not expend all her energy at the beginning and was letting her competitors beat her until the final 100 meters which is when she made her move.

Given the different strategies employed by Lochte and Ye, it's much less surprising that Ye was able to swim tenths of a second faster on the final 50 meters, while keeping in mind Lochte still had a faster 100 meter split on the freestyle and was over 20 seconds faster overall in the entire 400 meters.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Did you hear what happened? She was 3rd or 4th, and swam a final leg FASTER than the male winner of the same event. She wasn't one of the favorites coming into the Games. I think the world is too cynical - but this doesn't add up.
Yep, I saw it...

I did wonder about the devil in the detail though and, it seems, that the whole "she did it faster" thing is an easy way to package the story - but which conveniently glosses over the details which explain a lot of it - as Mucat has posted just above.
 

krz

Professional
I'm not sure if she was doping or not but, I'm not one to condemn someone with no proof but a quote from a butthurt american coach.

Keep in mind the womens record for 50m is sub 24 seconds.

Rebecca Adlington swam her final 50m even faster than Ye in 2008.

The articles implies that Lochte had the fastest final 50m in that race which he did not. It's written to imply she was close with the mens winner when she was 23 seconds off. The article is written to stir up controversy.

China does have a history of doping, that's true. But, to get called out by the US for PEDS? Hello pot, meet kettle.
 
Last edited:

SwankPeRFection

Hall of Fame
So none of you taught yourselves how to pump out some adrenalin at the last few meters when you ran track in school? A few of us even messed around with holding our breaths as we ran in gym class and take only controlled breaths when we absolutely needed it. It made for some faster times and quicker pace because of the weird euphoria you felt. No one ever passed out, but you definitely got an adrenalin boost at times and when your lungs began filling up with major air, you could really get going.

I'm not saying this is what's happening here, but if you've watched any human body science programs you'd know that when in flight/fight mode, our bodies are capable of major spikes in performance. It's not sustained because it's usually adrenalin enhanced and sometimes you can even sustain muscle injuries for the amazing over utilization of them, but if someone was taught to train and harness this ability, they could learn to do it on command. The Chinese are crazy enough to suscept themselves to this.
 
The tournament organizers or concerned officials have said that she's negative.

/thread

Then that is one amazing performance.

Of course, there's the adrenaline argument too. I think there are theories out there, claiming the difference the strength of a monkey vs that of a human is our consciousness.

Some of these theories say humans are weaker than primates because our full conscious strength/endurance is only 30% of our muscles' capabilities. Whereas primates don't have such "consciousness" and use their muscles to their maximum potential. Reason for the cap? Just like some posters have said, to protect ourselves from our own strength. True or not, I find that interesting.
 

ninman

Hall of Fame
I think the thing that works against this girl the most is that she is Chinese. Look at how many scandals Chinese athletes have been involved in at past olympics. Underage athletes with falsified documents, systematic doping, now most recently trying to throw the badminton match.

Ok granted there were 3 other teams also attempting to throw the match, but it seems like whenever there is something dodgy going on the Chinese are involved somehow.

People keep saying "if she was American, British then no-one would bat an eye". That may be true, but America and Britain have much, much better records when it comes to PED's and athletes. Sure there have been a few that you could name, but it's no where near the same level, or extent that the Chinese have had.

But, there is no evidence she cheated, so what we should do now is congratulate her on a great swim. I just really hope it doesn't transpire later that she did cheat. If she did, no doubt it will all be swept under the carpet in an effort to keep the CCP happy.
 

ninman

Hall of Fame
You know the thing that kind of bugs me is, people often forget that the effect of the drug can last for some time after it's left the system. In other words an athlete can be under the effect of the drug, but when tested will come up negative.

Nobody takes them all the time, they take them in cycles. So it's possible for Ye to have been taking something up to 3 or 4 weeks prior to the olympics, then stopped it, and she would still get the benefit of the drugs during the olympics, but give negative test results.

That's why they have out of competition testing. To stop people doing that. So the question is not, is she clean now (i.e. negative results right now), but what about prior to the olympics.

If it's the Chinese that "tested" her, then I wouldn't trust a word they say. Just my last thoughts on this matter.
 

ninman

Hall of Fame
Negative, like Marion Jones, Armstrong or Phelps? *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*

I think you're underlining the problem. Marion Jones is the only one who was ever caught of the three you've named, but people just don't trust the testing system anymore. You have people who had 500 negative tests, then come out and say "I was doping", it totally destroys any faith people have.

So this Chinese girl testing negative has little impact on the rumours. People will say "so what", players x, y and z all had hundreds of negative test and all were cheats.
 

ChipNCharge

Professional
Five North Korean women soccer players tested positive for steroids last year. Their coach said it was due to the hormones that were given to them after they were struck by lightning at last year's World Cup.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Having done business with Chinese companies on many occasions I have no doubt they would do anything to win. They way they conduct business is more sneaky than any others I have dealt with. And it's not anomaly either, it's standard, daily business practice.

The Chinese will say that US companies appear to be more ethical only because the sneakiness is done for them at the political and military level by others to lay the foundation for US companies to penetrate markets. Like if US companies get contracts to "rebuild" Iraq, it was made possible by the destruction caused by the war.

Mind you, the Chinese and Russians will, and are, doing much the same.
 

volleygirl

Rookie
I think you're underlining the problem. Marion Jones is the only one who was ever caught of the three you've named, but people just don't trust the testing system anymore. You have people who had 500 negative tests, then come out and say "I was doping", it totally destroys any faith people have.

So this Chinese girl testing negative has little impact on the rumours. People will say "so what", players x, y and z all had hundreds of negative test and all were cheats.


Youre totally right. Saying "I have been tested many times and never failed a test" is about the most hollow thing an athlete can say these days. The people out there know of so many cheaters in other sports who can make the same statement but theres ZERO doubt cheating was going on.
 

pinky42

New User
Bob Costas pointed out that Phelps between 14 and 15 improved in an event by over four seconds. The funny part was that he didn't make a link between Phelps and cheating, only the Chinese swimmer.
 

NickC

Professional
It doesn't matter if you think or don't think who is innocent. It is a matter of proof.

Yet the proof is that she bested her own personal time by 5 seconds. That just doesn't happen at Olympic-level swimming.

Keep in mind the 15yo Ruta bested her 100m time by over 2 seconds to take gold and yet not one person questioning that.

We're not questioning that because we're questioning someone who beat her own personal best by 2.5 times what Ruta did. That's the problem. 2 seconds is huge. 5 seconds is unheard of.

The sad reality is, that everybody is bowing to the current status quo. Doping is rampant in Pro-sports and the new Super Power is doing exactly what the other did on their day.

This.

And the others assume she is doping. Hello pot, meet kettle.

She very well could be doping. But, I don't like jumping to conclusions based on the some random comment from a bitter coach.

She is doping. They all are, both Chinese and everyone else. It's painfully obvious.

that's right. People are jealous of Madoff. If he's smart enough to take people's money, he earned it IMHO.

It's not that Bernie was smart enough, it's just he realized that people generally are stupid enough to blindly accept something that's blatantly too good to be true. The rest of the people that trusted him with their money trusted him blindly due to certain religious ties.

So the Chinese have one outstanding result and people start questioning if PEDs are the reason.

A single American wins 7 gold medals in one Olympics and he's a hero.

What is wrong with this picture?

That a single American didn't best his own personal time by 5 seconds to do so. The single American also had the 2008 Olympics mapped out for about 7 years as his time to peak as an athlete.

The tournament organizers or concerned officials have said that she's negative.

/thread

I think the very same was said (multiple times, no less) of Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong, Marion Jones, etc...

Look how all those cases turned out.

/thread

Five North Korean women soccer players tested positive for steroids last year. Their coach said it was due to the hormones that were given to them after they were struck by lightning at last year's World Cup.

Atleast the North Koreans admitted it, and had a cool BS excuse! They truly know how to make up the most extraordinary stories. That one is up there with Jong-Il Kim's account of hitting 11 holes-in-one and shooting a 38-under par during his first ever round of golf.
 
Top