Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I'd love to know how Nadal's level in the 2011 final "was nowhere near the level in 07 and 08 finals". I'm actually quite intrigued to find out.
Djokovic to ever be ranked higher than #3 in the World
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abmk
Bionic Poster
a) confidence considerably lesser
b) a set where he couldn't get the ball past djokovic ( 2nd set )
c) a set where he played well below par ( 4th set )
not one set in 07 or 08 final where he played like he did in the 2nd set or 4th set or had confidence issues like he did in 11 final ....
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I never really understood all that talk about "confidence issues". I mean was Novak supposed to lose to him earlier that year so as to make the Wimbledon final more competitive?! It just doesn't make sense to me.
abmk
Bionic Poster
All I am saying , is that as a result of those 4 consecutive losses, nadal's confidence was indeed lesser and major part of reason his level was considerably lesser than in 07 or 08 when he faced federer .....
not saying its djokovic's fault ....its just how things played out ....
mattosgrant
Banned
I do think his only poor set of the 2011 final was the 4th one. In the 1st set he probably outplayed Djokovic if anything, but Djokovic is so tough and full of confidence at that point he held on in his service games, and played a great game to break Nadal right at the end. The 2nd set he didn't really get a chance to play as Djokovic was incredible that set. The 3rd set he obviously owned so was playing well.
mavsman149
Hall of Fame
Why are we still calling out an incorrect prediction made 6 years ago that was proven wrong over 4 year years ago?
Doflamingo
Professional
Have you Federer fans also jumped on the bandwagon of Novak trashing Nadal 7 times in a row, in all finals including 3 Grand Slam finals because of "confidence issues"? Oh how times have changed since Novak beat Federer in the last 3 slam finals.
Please. Up to the point of Wimbledon 2011 Novak had never even defeated Nadal in a GS, the one with the confidence issues would be Novak if I were to chalk up "confidence issues" since he's never beaten Nadal in a GS, let alone a final. He's beaten Nadal in other tournaments obviously but this was a completely different territory for Novak who was playing his first Wimbledon final, against someone who reached their 5th final and won it twice.
Novak just outplayed him in the match, they were both good in the match actually but Novak was just better. Even Nadal had more first serves landing in the match than Novak but Novak won more of his first and second serves than Nadal did. He was more aggresive too. Novak's defense and his capability of handling Nadal's topspin was exceptional in that match, that's what bogged down Nadal at the end.
Please. Up to the point of Wimbledon 2011 Novak had never even defeated Nadal in a GS, the one with the confidence issues would be Novak if I were to chalk up "confidence issues" since he's never beaten Nadal in a GS, let alone a final. He's beaten Nadal in other tournaments obviously but this was a completely different territory for Novak who was playing his first Wimbledon final, against someone who reached their 5th final and won it twice.
Novak just outplayed him in the match, they were both good in the match actually but Novak was just better. Even Nadal had more first serves landing in the match than Novak but Novak won more of his first and second serves than Nadal did. He was more aggresive too. Novak's defense and his capability of handling Nadal's topspin was exceptional in that match, that's what bogged down Nadal at the end.
swordtennis
G.O.A.T.
Lmao do not even go there. You are entering a deep dark fedal middle earth on that one. Lol.
swordtennis
G.O.A.T.
Dude 2011 levels of nadal and djokovic was off the charts that year. Nadal father smashing his hand on the rail at Wimbledon summed up that year. Lol this was not supposed to happen! Rage!!!!!!
V
VexlanderPrime
Guest
When Rafa loses its only due to "confidence issues"
When Djoker loses its because he's a weak era inflated impostor being exposed.
#TTWLogic
abmk
Bionic Poster
I was comparing confidence level in 07 & 08 finals vs his confidence level in 11 final ...
it was definitely higher in 07 and 08 than when compared to 11 ....
there is no doubt that djoko outplayed nadal in 11 final, but that doesn't change the above ^^
Doflamingo
Professional
If you go by that logic then Nadal should have had confidence issues in 2008 Wimbledon final since he lost 2006 and 2007 finals to Federer both times (which would cause doubt again in 2008 due to past losses and it probably even did as Federer was coming back in 2008 final) compared to him winning the title twice and reaching a 5th final over someone who's never won Wimbledon let alone reach a final.
> Novak, who's never reached a Wimbledon final and never beaten Nadal in a GS, let alone a final
> Nadal, who's reached 5 Wimbledon finals and won the title twice, giving him massive experience and confidence over a player who's always lost against him in a slam
Who's the one with "confidence issues"?
> Novak, who's never reached a Wimbledon final and never beaten Nadal in a GS, let alone a final
> Nadal, who's reached 5 Wimbledon finals and won the title twice, giving him massive experience and confidence over a player who's always lost against him in a slam
Who's the one with "confidence issues"?
abmk
Bionic Poster
nadal had just crushed federer in RG 08 final ...recent events usually have more of an effect on confidence ...
somewhat similar thing in 11 with djokovic beating nadal 4 times in a row, esp. the 2 wins on clay in straights ....
you have to just see those finals to see what had happened ...
Doflamingo
Professional
Tell that to Novak who was having the best season of his life by beating everyone, including his inner demons like Nadal at RG then going to lose the final against Wawrinka but I can safely say Wawrinka outplayed Novak in the final and not because of Novak's confidence issues.
Yeah Novak beat Nadal 4 times in a row but they were in Masters, completely different to beating Nadal at a slam or reaching a slam final against Nadal.
Nadal crushing Federer at RG has no bearing on Wimbledon, two completely different tournaments where Nadal also won against Federer at RG in 2006 and 2007 then got beat by Federer at Wimbledon in 2006 and 2007. Nadal would have confidence issues in 2008 Wimbledon final since he's lost the previous 2 finals against the same player, the same way Federer would have against Nadal at RG.
But comparing a 5x finalist and 2x winner who'd have vast experience and confidence against a 1st time Wimbledon finalist who's never beaten his rival in a slam is a huge difference. It's way different than meeting in Masters where Novak has had wins against Nadal.
Yeah Novak beat Nadal 4 times in a row but they were in Masters, completely different to beating Nadal at a slam or reaching a slam final against Nadal.
Nadal crushing Federer at RG has no bearing on Wimbledon, two completely different tournaments where Nadal also won against Federer at RG in 2006 and 2007 then got beat by Federer at Wimbledon in 2006 and 2007. Nadal would have confidence issues in 2008 Wimbledon final since he's lost the previous 2 finals against the same player, the same way Federer would have against Nadal at RG.
But comparing a 5x finalist and 2x winner who'd have vast experience and confidence against a 1st time Wimbledon finalist who's never beaten his rival in a slam is a huge difference. It's way different than meeting in Masters where Novak has had wins against Nadal.
abmk
Bionic Poster
oh puhlease, 4 sets win in contested matches in 06 and 07 in contrast to a 1-3-0 drubbing in 2008 ? are you dense enough to equate the two ?
yes, a crushing like the one at RG does have a bearing ..... actually given the way nadal contested vs federer in 07 final, he'd have gained a lot of confidence, knowing he could absolutely go toe to toe with him on grass ....
@ bold part : ah, but of course that makes a lot of sense, Novak would not be confident at all vs stan in RG final because :
he beat him in 5 at the AO previously ?
had 15 plus wins vs him compared to 3 losses vs him ?
had beat nadal and murray playing well
but hey sure, he mysteriously develops confidence problems vs stan
yes, masters vs slam is a different thing, but enough with the "Novak never beat nadal in a slam before" exaggeration . At that stage, they had met at :
a) RG 06,07 and 08 : where nadal was clearly better
b) wimby 07 : where djokovic retired
c) USO 10 : when djokovic was just coming out a big slump, having got his first top 10 win of the year in the semi
and its not a matter of "would have" here anyways ...I'm just pointing out what actually happened .....
and since when did I say Novak did NOT outplay nadal in the wimby 11 final ... he very much did ... All I am pointing is that the confidence aspect played its role as well ....
Now deal with it and quit being over-defensive
Doflamingo
Professional
Bearing on Wimbledon. I don't even know why you're sperging out by comparing their RG matches when I said the RG losses doesn't have a bearing on Wimbledon, this is proven by the contrast of sets won and lost by both players.
Reading comprehension problems? I said Wawrinka outplayed Novak, I'm not making excuses about Novak having confidence issues.
Your inability to see that Novak's lost 5 matches against Nadal in a slam and never reached a Wimbledon final is quiet shocking. It's not exaggeration, it's the truth. Doesn't matter if they met when it's all ended up with losses with Novak having no prior experience to deal with Nadal, then facing him in a slam final is a big thing.
If someone attacking your opinion means over-defensive then well, damn. You don't know what a debate and a forum is. But I see you're sperging out right now and need to calm down.
abmk
Bionic Poster
because a 1-3-0 demolition is bound to have a significant effect even it is a different tournament. If you can't recognize that, that's your problem .....
I was pointing that RG losses in 06 and 07 didn't have much of an effect at wimbledon, because they were contested 4 set losses, unlike in 2008 ....
actually you are the one having comprehension issues. I was making fun of your analogy. because there was/is absolutely no reason for Novak to lack confidence vs Stan in RG 15 , unlike the other cases we were talking about
no, I do see that it does matter .... But what you don't see is >> his wave of confidence, his play in 2011 , including 4 wins over nadal was way more than what he needed to see that through. and that is what happened in the match. djokovic wasn't the one having confidence problems in that match, nadal was ...
actually you going completely nuts when I mentioned that nadal did have confidence issues in the wimby 11 final and interpreting that as that being the sole reason for the loss/I was not giving credit to djokovic is you being HIGHLY over-defensive ... Now deal with it ...
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