Best whippy but stable enough rackets?
First Impressions of Pure Aero 98
- Thread starter neversaydienadalfan
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Best whippy but stable enough rackets?
Peyote Bjornsson
Rookie
Aero VS
iceman_dl6
Professional
Just received my PA98 from TWE today! Did my usual customizations and did a few bounces off the strings and wow, no pinging sound that my old PAVS had! Both the PA98 and PAVS have the same strings and tension. Also, I can feel that the PA98 is more polarized than the PAVS. Can’t wait to hit with it!
Peyote Bjornsson
Rookie
What strings are used?
Peyote Bjornsson
Rookie
Our demo went back to TW with only the 15 to 20 minutes of play the kid did with the PA98 last Saturday. I suggested to him then that he should cut out the strings he couldn't get past to evaluate the frame and replace them with his Revoltion 17, but he was resolute that he didn't want to mess with demo'ing stuff til after the season was over. Maybe a wise stance on his part.
iceman_dl6
Professional
Solinco Confidential 1.30 @ 45 lbs
Peyote Bjornsson
Rookie
Nice choice.
comparing to TW specs. which are done with plastic wrap still on
iceman_dl6
Professional
Just had a 1 hour hitting session. Overall, it feels like a PAVS but with a more solid and softer feel (still crisp though). However, my flat serves had more zip with this new one (maybe due to the more polarized weight distribution). I’m glad they improved the weaknesses of the old model (for me, it was the feel and serves) with this new model.
TennisManiac
Hall of Fame
Sounds nice. Can't wait to get this one out soon.
Too high string tension for RPM Blast, and way too much lead. It's a frame that needs to be swung as fast as possible, if you can't then you need softer string tension to get some dwell time, and so much lead definitely doesn't help with swing speed. Plus it's a frame with a fairly high twistweight, so lead on the sides isn't necessary, makes it difficult to wield and clunky. If it has to be RPM Blast then go with 46lb
Alcaraz plays pretty much weighted like your PA98 stock, Rune has lots of lead under the bumper. They both play with Aero VS though, painted like a PA 98.
Alcaraz plays pretty much weighted like your PA98 stock, Rune has lots of lead under the bumper. They both play with Aero VS though, painted like a PA 98.
Not sure if it's a good approach. 8g lead at 10/2 equals 20 pts swingweight. Basically, you're playing an 345+ SW aero and almost head heavy. The racquet character has been completely changed. If that's the one you like, maybe try Blade pro or something else.
Thank you for this response. I will go back on the courts and try with the unleaded one.... Can you elaborate more on the 46 LB? If I can't SWING fast enough, then I need to switch to 46 LB? or if I can swing fast enough, then I can just sit with 55 lb?
Another question is, what kind of string would you recommend then- if you had to choose one and at what tension?
And the final question is, I thought all the "pros" needed heavy rackets like 330+ G minimum to compete effectively. The 98 is barely there...so if you have a heavy ball coming right at you- won't the frame flex and it will be unstable when returning heavy balls? Or are you saying that that the fairly high twist weight along with a high swing speed prevents that from happening?
So in the end- what you are saying is that for this racket to be most effective- it's all about swinging as fast as possible?
And so what you are saying also is that I was using the racket incorrectly- meaning my swings weren't fast enough initially with the unleaded one thats why....it just didn't feel right...and why the "leaded" one felt "better" but ironically- I totally changed the properties of the racket and it's no longer a PA98?
Thank you, I appreciate your advice.
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With a stiffer frame that is engineered for crazy high impact speeds you need to get some dwell time, otherwise you get a boardy stringbed that forces you to, well - force it. It's exactly like driving a race tuned suspension to the supermarket and then complaining that it's stiff, and adding - literally - a ton to your car to make it feel softer over speed bumps and potholes.
The story of weight and swingweight is an eternal one, and you can find it on this forum easily, I can't type it all here in 2min because it's several book chapters long.
Flex isn't an issue with racquets on impact in that sense, todays frames are easily sturdy enough even in junior weights, like 260g. Mass of the racquet is important on impact, to describe it quickly, heavier racquet head will block more easily - higher swingweight. Defensive players like Novak, Rafa and Murray play with crazy heavy racquet heads, huge amounts of lead under the bumper, so they have problems moving their racquets on serve, and when attacking. Alcaraz setup is the complete opposite, light tip of the racquet makes for easy racquet head acceleration and attacking. All other tennis players are between those extremes, depending on personal preferences, fitness and strength, technique, one or two handed backhand etc.
You should first go with RPM Team 1.25, or RPM Blast orange 1.25, and yes 46lb would be fine to get some drive through the ball, and some blocking and comfort at the same time. The game with racquets and strings is how to find the best compromise, the best middle ground. Going to the extremes will take you in one direction only - injury and doctors.
The story of weight and swingweight is an eternal one, and you can find it on this forum easily, I can't type it all here in 2min because it's several book chapters long.
Flex isn't an issue with racquets on impact in that sense, todays frames are easily sturdy enough even in junior weights, like 260g. Mass of the racquet is important on impact, to describe it quickly, heavier racquet head will block more easily - higher swingweight. Defensive players like Novak, Rafa and Murray play with crazy heavy racquet heads, huge amounts of lead under the bumper, so they have problems moving their racquets on serve, and when attacking. Alcaraz setup is the complete opposite, light tip of the racquet makes for easy racquet head acceleration and attacking. All other tennis players are between those extremes, depending on personal preferences, fitness and strength, technique, one or two handed backhand etc.
You should first go with RPM Team 1.25, or RPM Blast orange 1.25, and yes 46lb would be fine to get some drive through the ball, and some blocking and comfort at the same time. The game with racquets and strings is how to find the best compromise, the best middle ground. Going to the extremes will take you in one direction only - injury and doctors.
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This post has taught me so much that I never knew about tennis. I guess this is why I felt like “I couldn’t accelerate and felt clunky on short balls.”
I will try again and have a different mindset of attacking and accelerating racket head speed. I was of the total opposite mindset.
thanks for the education
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
While many pros and higher level players do play with heavy racquets, it is not true that they all do. It is not necessary, but many find it helpful. You will find mostly stock weight racquets at higher recreational levels (4.5, 5.0) and most higher level college players (upper level D1, etc) play with stock or near stock weight. Stock weight racquets are common on the WTA pro tour. Stock weight is less common on the ATP tour, but there are a few guys you see on TV playing pretty close to stock weight. Particularly the younger guys. Racquet head speed is at a premium after stability is taken care of. Stock weight is a preference.
Finally got this strung up. It doesn't feel like a log so it must be pretty on spec. In hand, the weight distribution already feels much better than the PAVS. Definitely more maneuverable. I don't know if I'm a fan of the Flax, but whatever was in the PAVS before wasn't good either. Will be doing a mix of drills and doubles with it for 3 hours tonight.
Ok. I tried playing stock...as alcaraz swinging as fast as possible. Um. I felt good doing it. Felt way different then the unleaded version. Opponents said I had heavy deep balls. I don't know how it compares to the pure aero or the strike as I feel like maybe I've been playing tennis the wrong way....since inception LOL.
But my coach and my opponent said this racket is for me. Grindy baseliner with fast legs. So.... maybe this racket is literally made for holger rune and alcaraz type of tennis players.
But my coach and my opponent said this racket is for me. Grindy baseliner with fast legs. So.... maybe this racket is literally made for holger rune and alcaraz type of tennis players.
Didn't like this thing completely raw/stock. Wouldn't recommend going a grip size down as stability was compromised and this definitely needs a stiffer string.
After a second over grip and a dampener, it was stable as the vs but still more maneuverable.
Feel with and without dampener isn't to my liking using Cyclone tour. Feels way too soft, and I play that in a clash....
After a second over grip and a dampener, it was stable as the vs but still more maneuverable.
Feel with and without dampener isn't to my liking using Cyclone tour. Feels way too soft, and I play that in a clash....
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Power Player
Bionic Poster
How did the stringing go? I can see how 16x20 can be confusing. Some of these 16x20s skip a bottom main and not a top..etc. It can be weird.
The upside to this frame in particular is that the skips are VERY obvious.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yeah I just eyed it out and ended up skipping 7 and 9 like I saw after that you are supposed to. That 3rd bottom cross has an odd spacing so it made me question things a little.
Yeah it was fine just stringing it how you would expect. Looking at the grommets Babolat might recommend something weird for the tie offs that creates blocked holes, but I just went for the closest larger grommet.
Peyote Bjornsson
Rookie
I think it is interesting that if you go to the Aero 98 on the TW site and scroll all the way down to show Si,ilar Racquets, that the Eone 98 Tour is the first one on the list. That was my kid's 2nd choice in the demo process that led him to choose the Aero VS, and it has quite a bit more static and swingweight (not a bad thing). If that TW suggestion holds any water, I'm fairly sure given all of the impressions given in this discussion and veto'ing the demo string in favor of what he normally pays with (and the 327 SW published by TW and confirmed by me when we had our first brief demo)), my kid will love it when he gets the opportunity to try it again and string it with Solinco Revolution 17.
topspn
Legend
New generation of players have moved on to lighter weight as this is what they grew up playing. They do adjust SW though to be high although static may be normal. No one in the top 100 plays stock though. They all tweak their frames for their playing. D1 college different story and yes many play stock or minimal adjustment
Peyote Bjornsson
Rookie
Agreed. My kid plays college tennis, though not D1 (yet, though he could and wants to); he is a big kid who has played in the past with frames weighted up to about 365 SW. But he comes through the ball fast and hard and due to that, likes the swiftness of the Aero VS at stock specs (in our case, 4 of them at 318 SW). I personally think the balls he hits would benefit from about a 325 to 335 SW, but its his tennis.
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Peyote Bjornsson
Rookie
I'd like to add to that, after the upcoming season, at which point he will do some limited demo-ing (which will be limited to the Aero 98, and the Whiteout 305 and XTD only at this point), my money is on him switching to the Whiteout XTD. He is sponsored by Solinco, so lots of savings there, plus he already has a savage serve that would be downright scary with an extra .5 inch to work with at a 333 SW. And hee is nearly 6'5" already.
Nastase
Rookie
I play with the PAVS and like it. The new Aero 98 is more comfortable and a bit more solid, but I think you could get nearly the same results with good modifications to a PAVS. Both whiteouts are fabulous and the XTD is really something. Longer but headlight, it’s fantastic off the ground. It doesn’t feel like 333 sw. I’m likely moving to this racquet. Everyone says the extended frames serve better but I’m finding only marginal improvements so far. I guess I haven’t adjusted to the length yet. I’m also 58 so everything over the head is modestly slower than it used to be.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
Thor's hammer really ? how does Alcarez control this then ?
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
Much more head heavy than the listed specs.
I took the Aero 98 to the test. The one I have is 305g, 31.6 bl and sw 294 on the swingtool app. After stringing and overgrip, the racket has 331g, 32.4 bl and sw 326 factory, which is identical to the Prestige MP-L I'm currently playing with. First impressions are promising, I recently tried Vcore 95 and 98 and based on what I saw, I much prefer this racket. There is no longer that Babolat hardness that was present earlier, the racket is quite comfortable (Tour sniper). I will play at least another 10 hours before giving full impressions.
GimmeBackMyDog
Rookie
I'm kind of having the opposite experience.
Using the the 98 this week has messed up my elbow.
Maybe I can grip lighter or change to a better dampener.
But just taking a few swings in the living room tonight, the VS was causing noticeably less pain in the elbow/arm.
Even swinging the Pure Strike didn't seem to be bothering the elbow as much as the 98.
Don't know. I'll try again tomorrow and grip lighter.
Using the the 98 this week has messed up my elbow.
Maybe I can grip lighter or change to a better dampener.
But just taking a few swings in the living room tonight, the VS was causing noticeably less pain in the elbow/arm.
Even swinging the Pure Strike didn't seem to be bothering the elbow as much as the 98.
Don't know. I'll try again tomorrow and grip lighter.
For me, the Tour Sniper is a benchmark string for all rackets, because then I can most accurately compare the rackets. There were earlier cases where I tried different strings, so I had completely different initial impressions. The Tour Sniper suits me in all rackets and I know it will give me good feedback. The only downside is durability. I had a Pure Aero banana a long time ago and I loved that racquet, but shots outside the sweet spot felt like electricity was going through my elbow and up to my shoulder. Especially at the service. This is not the case with this racket, although it is not excluded that I may feel discomfort after playing for a long time. That's why I want to play at least 10 hours before any conclusion.
Pasteing here from another thread:
VS is sturdier and stiffer, noticeably more mass in the throat and shoulders, so that its tip seems too light, it was made for pro use, made to add a lot of lead at 12, and then it feels balanced. VS has that ridiculous energy return too, if you flatten a forehand and nicely connect it's a projectile. PA98 still gives nice generous power, but not like that, PA98 has a bit more flex, less punch and less energy return. VS is rock solid, like RF97A, Yonex VCP 330g or Rad Pro G360+, while PA98 can slightly vibrate on some flat shots, but nothing much, like most good racquets for advanced players.
PA98 is noticeably smoother and more linear over the whole stringbed, not just the sweetspot like VS. Significantly lighter and less stiff/sturdy in the throat and shoulders, its mass is more evenly distributed, whereas the VS is very depolarized. PA98 has higher sw, noticeably more mass at the tip of the racquet. PA98 is stock just like I have my VSes modded, with 2-3g of lead at 12. PA98 reminds of Radical MP in terms of weight and flex distribution, but gives more power.
With both VS with lead and PA98 stock, same-ish sw, VS needs constant superfast hitting and crucially attacking the ball in front of the body, it feels good in fast rallys. PA98 is way more forgiving in that sense, you can dig yourself out of the corner with it more naturally and easily, it'll also work great in faster but not fastest ball exchanges, and it doesn't need lead at all. You can swipe at the ball slightly late with it, that works a bit better with PA98, defensive or grinding points sometimes too.
Simply put, VS is (too) stiff, and too demanding, made for people who play Futures level and up, and who hit the ball 4h daily, with fresh strings. It's a race car. Babolat made it for Alcaraz, and we'll see many other pros play with it over the years, painted in PA98 colours.
PA98 is for everyone else, your arm won't fall off, you lose some of the punch and stability, but not that much if you're not a hard hitter always looking to flatten the ball and punch through. PA98 is easier to use than VS, and I think a lot of people will really like it. A defensive counterpuncher or a grinder won't like it all that much though, as it will still ask to attack the ball consistently, with a nice long full swing, and a lot of energy, not just a snowflake
VS is sturdier and stiffer, noticeably more mass in the throat and shoulders, so that its tip seems too light, it was made for pro use, made to add a lot of lead at 12, and then it feels balanced. VS has that ridiculous energy return too, if you flatten a forehand and nicely connect it's a projectile. PA98 still gives nice generous power, but not like that, PA98 has a bit more flex, less punch and less energy return. VS is rock solid, like RF97A, Yonex VCP 330g or Rad Pro G360+, while PA98 can slightly vibrate on some flat shots, but nothing much, like most good racquets for advanced players.
PA98 is noticeably smoother and more linear over the whole stringbed, not just the sweetspot like VS. Significantly lighter and less stiff/sturdy in the throat and shoulders, its mass is more evenly distributed, whereas the VS is very depolarized. PA98 has higher sw, noticeably more mass at the tip of the racquet. PA98 is stock just like I have my VSes modded, with 2-3g of lead at 12. PA98 reminds of Radical MP in terms of weight and flex distribution, but gives more power.
With both VS with lead and PA98 stock, same-ish sw, VS needs constant superfast hitting and crucially attacking the ball in front of the body, it feels good in fast rallys. PA98 is way more forgiving in that sense, you can dig yourself out of the corner with it more naturally and easily, it'll also work great in faster but not fastest ball exchanges, and it doesn't need lead at all. You can swipe at the ball slightly late with it, that works a bit better with PA98, defensive or grinding points sometimes too.
Simply put, VS is (too) stiff, and too demanding, made for people who play Futures level and up, and who hit the ball 4h daily, with fresh strings. It's a race car. Babolat made it for Alcaraz, and we'll see many other pros play with it over the years, painted in PA98 colours.
PA98 is for everyone else, your arm won't fall off, you lose some of the punch and stability, but not that much if you're not a hard hitter always looking to flatten the ball and punch through. PA98 is easier to use than VS, and I think a lot of people will really like it. A defensive counterpuncher or a grinder won't like it all that much though, as it will still ask to attack the ball consistently, with a nice long full swing, and a lot of energy, not just a snowflake
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BBender716
Professional
As someone who is an intermediate rec player, who owns both racquets, I wholeheartedly agree that the PA98 is way less demanding than the PAVS but without being a rocket launcher. It's just straight up easy mode version of PAVS. I like it.
Peyote Bjornsson
Rookie
My kid stuck a couple of Advantec weighted vibration strips at 12 oclock on one if his PAVSs yesterday, taking the swingweight from 317 to 328. Was hitting a noticably heavier ball with it and serves had some additiinal beef to them as well. I guess that puts this PAVS into PA98 territory and I suspect he will be doing the same to his other 3 PAVS frames.
nevin23liauw
New User
Hey all! new here, just want to share my experience (or about to be). Got one Aero 98 quite underspec with 305.87g static weight (with plastic wrap), 285 sw and 13.09 tw using a friend's Brifffidi SW1 machine (idk if tw is accurate). Will be stringing either with 1.21 mm black widow or the 1.30mm kirschbaum max power to check against my twin aero vs (from the 2 pack) that has those two strings, 1 gram within each other but differs in sw (vs w black widow at 325 even doe it's a thinner string, vs w max power at 323 sw). Let's see how different the vs and 98s are, based on review above i think it will be quite interesting.
current journey I am looking to choose between the ezone 98 and the aero 98/vs, after moving away from blade v8 (overspec w 299 and 300 sw) for 3 months.
Previously used the aero vs for almost 9 months since the start of 2022, did it stock, with lead tape at 12 (2.5-3 grams) and a counter at tail, 10-12-2 (6 grams) and counter weight of equa (leather and also just tungsten putty at the buttcap), I would say quite familiar with the aero vs and how it plays stock and weighted up. I agree that it does need a tiny lead to just get that plow thru, but too much lead got me too tired playing 3 sets, even though the serves and GS were killers. so I've had the aero vs at 345g, 340g, 335g and 330g weight strung, but with unknown sw unfortunately (If i were to guess, tried from 330 up to 340-345s in sw). tbh, manuverability felt the same, just gives more result for the vs for me, at one point I had to try stringing w max power at 59-55 too.
Afterwards, decide to move to blade v8 after trying a friend's 18x20, but decided on the 16x19 after opting for more spin and being cheap with strings(higher tension less loss?) at 55lbs max power (even tho i think the 18x20 plays almost the same w 16x19 nicely w max power at low tension of 45-48lbs), then figuring out using a friend's briffidi sw machine (yes, they do not have sw machine in Indonesia) that the reason I liked the 16x19 was cuz of the higher than normal sw, but couldnt manage to keep up with it.
Now coming back to aero 98/vs and the ezone 98, but just opting for a lower tension/softer string for power instead of excessively leading it up. will post impression afterwards!
Shoutout from Indonesia, fellow tennis lover in the other hemisphere.
current journey I am looking to choose between the ezone 98 and the aero 98/vs, after moving away from blade v8 (overspec w 299 and 300 sw) for 3 months.
Previously used the aero vs for almost 9 months since the start of 2022, did it stock, with lead tape at 12 (2.5-3 grams) and a counter at tail, 10-12-2 (6 grams) and counter weight of equa (leather and also just tungsten putty at the buttcap), I would say quite familiar with the aero vs and how it plays stock and weighted up. I agree that it does need a tiny lead to just get that plow thru, but too much lead got me too tired playing 3 sets, even though the serves and GS were killers. so I've had the aero vs at 345g, 340g, 335g and 330g weight strung, but with unknown sw unfortunately (If i were to guess, tried from 330 up to 340-345s in sw). tbh, manuverability felt the same, just gives more result for the vs for me, at one point I had to try stringing w max power at 59-55 too.
Afterwards, decide to move to blade v8 after trying a friend's 18x20, but decided on the 16x19 after opting for more spin and being cheap with strings(higher tension less loss?) at 55lbs max power (even tho i think the 18x20 plays almost the same w 16x19 nicely w max power at low tension of 45-48lbs), then figuring out using a friend's briffidi sw machine (yes, they do not have sw machine in Indonesia) that the reason I liked the 16x19 was cuz of the higher than normal sw, but couldnt manage to keep up with it.
Now coming back to aero 98/vs and the ezone 98, but just opting for a lower tension/softer string for power instead of excessively leading it up. will post impression afterwards!
Shoutout from Indonesia, fellow tennis lover in the other hemisphere.
Your SW is 14 points lower than my PA98. Thats a massive difference and I imagine your experience with your frame is drastically different from mine. Was your friends Briffidi calibrated prior to use?
Peyote Bjornsson
Rookie
Old VS with some weight at 12 here.
Fast forward a month since I got the rackets as an update: Just gonna keep it short and sweet:
Groundstrokes 10/10. I feel like I can hit anywhere deep angles fully loaded with topspin or flatten it out. My game has never been so consistent and also versatile.
Slice: 4/10 I dunno doesn’t have that nice feeling like rf97 with slicing. So I refrain from using it.
Serve: 8/10 good spin and kick. Decent flat. Nothing to crazy like the heavier rackets or pure aero tour.
stabilty: 8/10 swing hard and fast and it’s stable
returns: 8/10 swing hard and fast and you can hit into the court safely and make the server
volley: I don’t do net gameplay enough to have an opinion.
maneuverability: 10/10 light, easy to swing or flick the wrist.
it’s an excellent aggressive baseliner or counter puncher racket. And man it’s so nice to hit winners more consistently with groundstrokes.
I always have to remind myself when I’m off my game that this racket is meant to swing fast. So I always swing it fast to make it work… otherwise the racket ends up being a wet blanket.
Groundstrokes 10/10. I feel like I can hit anywhere deep angles fully loaded with topspin or flatten it out. My game has never been so consistent and also versatile.
Slice: 4/10 I dunno doesn’t have that nice feeling like rf97 with slicing. So I refrain from using it.
Serve: 8/10 good spin and kick. Decent flat. Nothing to crazy like the heavier rackets or pure aero tour.
stabilty: 8/10 swing hard and fast and it’s stable
returns: 8/10 swing hard and fast and you can hit into the court safely and make the server
volley: I don’t do net gameplay enough to have an opinion.
maneuverability: 10/10 light, easy to swing or flick the wrist.
it’s an excellent aggressive baseliner or counter puncher racket. And man it’s so nice to hit winners more consistently with groundstrokes.
I always have to remind myself when I’m off my game that this racket is meant to swing fast. So I always swing it fast to make it work… otherwise the racket ends up being a wet blanket.
iceman_dl6
Professional
For the moment, for match play, I prefer my old VS. Still tinkering with my PA98 as it still feels unwieldy for long matches and not as responsive as the VS
Peyote Bjornsson
Rookie
My son feels the same. He things it is like the difference between a scalpel and a chain saw. Both have merit, but he prefers the scalpel at the moment.
