Greatest Canadian player ever

[Goosehead]

http://www.bradenton.com/2013/02/22/4404171/bradenton-man-charged-with-trying.html#tennis

This Canadian pro is in hot water down here in FLA.

what a sad perv defo NOT in line for any more tennis (no tennis courts in prison), and thus completely off the list for great canada players.

back to something more normal..if we dont focus on his scary teeth..:mrgreen: greg rusedski isnt in the reckoning i suppose.

 

[Dan Lobb]

what a sad perv defo NOT in line for any more tennis (no tennis courts in prison), and thus completely off the list for great canada players.

back to something more normal..if we dont focus on his scary teeth..:mrgreen: greg rusedski isnt in the reckoning i suppose.

Rusedski had a great win over Sampras in the 1998 Paris final 6-4, 7-6, 6-3, and pushed Sampras to a tough five-setter in the 2002 US Open.
He won 15 tournaments, but only one Masters event, the 1998 Paris.

Bedard had the equivalent of four Masters level wins, although he never beat someone of Sampras' level. He took a set off Hoad at Wimbledon, and a set off Rosewall in Davis Cup, and beat players such as Emerson, Davidson, Pietrangeli, Osuna, Sirola, Krishnan, Reed, Nielsen, Brichant, Ulrich, Bartlett, Howe, Scott in important events. He seemed to play less well against lesser players, and lost to many no-name players.

Bedard was more consistent overall than Rusedski, and never had the development or coaching systems of Rusedski. He had only one season of coaching in southern California in 1952, and was otherwise self-taught. He was a full-time Collegiate teacher in geography and English, and later a principal. Just a part-time player, yet he beat a lot of great names.

 

[TheCanadian]

I think you forgot Andrew Sznajder.

I expect that this will be a short list.

Here are the most legitimate candidates for greatest ever Canadian player.
This is not an exhaustive list.

1) Lorne Main
Current World #1 over 80
World #1 over 70 in 2000
Champion Monte Carlo clay 1954
Davis Cup 14 wins 14 defeats in singles

2) Bob Bedard
Last Canadian to win the Canadian championship 1955, 1957, 1958 defeating in the finals Ramanathan Krishnan (World #3) and Whitney Reed (U.S.A. #1)
Davis Cup greatest success in 1961, defeating both Llamas and Osuna (World #1) in singles
Defeated Emerson (World #1) at Queens Club 1958
Won a set off Hoad at Wimbledon 1954, lost 3 matches to Hoad in Slam events (Roland Garros, Wimbledon, Forest Hills) lost to both Hoad and Rosewall in 1955 Davis Cup

3) Mike Belkin
Rated #7 in world in early 1960's
Davis Cup record 14 wins 7 defeats in singles

4) Daniel Nestor
Defeated world #1 Edberg in five sets in 1992 Davis Cup singles
Won numberless doubles titles, all four slam events and world titles

5) Greg Rusedski
U.S. Open runnerup 1997
Ranked #4 in world
Dual citizen, played Davis Cup for Britain

6) Milos Raonic
Current world #14
Defeated Murray at Japan Open 2012 (career record 2 wins 1 defeat against Murray)

7) Filip Peliwo
Current 2012 Wimbledon and U.S. Open Junior Champion
World Junior #1 2012

Canada has not been a hotbed of tennis until recently, but the above is an honourable list.
I would rate Bob Bedard as all-time number 1, but this could change if Raonic or Peliwo continue to develop.

 

[TheCanadian]

I hope I'm wrong but because of his small size I don't think Peliwo will achieve greatness in professional tennis. Probably a decent journeyman making a decent living while travelling the world. Seems like a dreamy lifestyle anyways.

 

[Dan Lobb]

I hope I'm wrong but because of his small size I don't think Peliwo will achieve greatness in professional tennis. Probably a decent journeyman making a decent living while travelling the world. Seems like a dreamy lifestyle anyways.

Rosewall and Laver were small guys.
Peliwo won the Junior Wimbledon and Junior US Open last year. Shows consistency.

 

[Dan Lobb]

I think you forgot Andrew Sznajder.

He was 14 and 10 in Davis Cup singles, his best stat, and upset players such as Curren and Mayotte in ATP play.
However, he did not win a singles title on the major pro circuit.
A similar record to Mike Belkin, although Belkin was 14 to 7 in Davis Cup singles.

 

[Carsomyr]

Rosewall and Laver were small guys.
Peliwo won the Junior Wimbledon and Junior US Open last year. Shows consistency.

He's 5'11", the same height as Agassi. If he fails to win at the premier events, it'll have nothing to do with his height.

 

[Mustard]

Rusedski had a great win over Sampras in the 1998 Paris final 6-4, 7-6, 6-3, and pushed Sampras to a tough five-setter in the 2002 US Open.
He won 15 tournaments, but only one Masters event, the 1998 Paris.

From 1995 Queen's Club onwards, Greg Rusedski represented Great Britain. Any achievements he made as a Canadian player took place before June 1995. Rusedski won 2 tournaments while representing Canada, 1993 Newport on grass and 1995 Seoul on hardcourt.

 

[Dan Lobb]

From 1995 Queen's Club onwards, Greg Rusedski represented Great Britain. Any achievements he made as a Canadian player took place before June 1995. Rusedski won 2 tournaments while representing Canada, 1993 Newport on grass and 1995 Seoul on hardcourt.

He was not representing Canada or Britain in tournament play, only himself, and when he acquired British citizenship, he retained his Canadian citizenship.
I think that he would have represented Canada in Davis Cup if the Canadian federation had put forward more support (according to one commentator).

 

[Dan Lobb]

Rusedski had a great win over Sampras in the 1998 Paris final 6-4, 7-6, 6-3, and pushed Sampras to a tough five-setter in the 2002 US Open.
He won 15 tournaments, but only one Masters event, the 1998 Paris.

Bedard had the equivalent of four Masters level wins, although he never beat someone of Sampras' level. He took a set off Hoad at Wimbledon, and a set off Rosewall in Davis Cup, and beat players such as Emerson, Davidson, Pietrangeli, Osuna, Sirola, Krishnan, Reed, Nielsen, Brichant, Ulrich, Bartlett, Howe, Scott in important events. He seemed to play less well against lesser players, and lost to many no-name players.

Bedard was more consistent overall than Rusedski, and never had the development or coaching systems of Rusedski. He had only one season of coaching in southern California in 1952, and was otherwise self-taught. He was a full-time Collegiate teacher in geography and English, and later a principal. Just a part-time player, yet he beat a lot of great names.

Rusedski also won the 1999 Grand Slam Cup, which was a fairly important event.

 

[BobbyOne]

Rusedski also won the 1999 Grand Slam Cup, which was a fairly important event.

Dan, I'm glad you post again.

 

[Dan Lobb]

Dan, I'm glad you post again.

I did some posting on the situation in Germany in 1933, but that thread somehow mysteriously disappeared. No explanation from the moderator.

 

[Dan Lobb]

I did some posting on the situation in Germany in 1933, but that thread somehow mysteriously disappeared. No explanation from the moderator.

Many tennis players from Canada were caught up in events in Europe during the 1933-45 era, including my father, who won the University of Saskatchewan men's singles title in 1943 before entering military service. A few months later he was commanding an artillery battery which exchanged fire with a German submarine in Halifax harbour.
His first cousin, a regimental boxing champion, was a scout behind the lines in Italy.
Some of Canada's Davis Cup players also had their careers interrupted by WW II.

 

[TheCanadian]

Rosewall and Laver were small guys.
Peliwo won the Junior Wimbledon and Junior US Open last year. Shows consistency.

Professional tennis has evolved. Players are faster, stronger, and taller today. I maintain that Peliwo will only be a journeyman.

 

[Dan Lobb]

Many tennis players from Canada were caught up in events in Europe during the 1933-45 era, including my father, who won the University of Saskatchewan men's singles title in 1943 before entering military service. A few months later he was commanding an artillery battery which exchanged fire with a German submarine in Halifax harbour.
His first cousin, a regimental boxing champion, was a scout behind the lines in Italy.
Some of Canada's Davis Cup players also had their careers interrupted by WW II.

Henri Rochon and Brendan Macken experienced a delay in their tennis development due to wartime service. Both would win the Canadian title against foreign players, and Rochon was runnerup to Bedard in the 1955 Canadian championship, the first of Bedard's major titles.

 

[Dan Lobb]

Professional tennis has evolved. Players are faster, stronger, and taller today. I maintain that Peliwo will only be a journeyman.

Peliwo is 5' 11", not a small player.
Obviously, his ground strokes are top class.
Where are these new players who could beat him at junior Wimbledon or US Open last year?

 

[Dan Lobb]

Professional tennis has evolved. Players are faster, stronger, and taller today. I maintain that Peliwo will only be a journeyman.

How can you judge before he even gets started? All we can say now is that he looks better than any other young player.

 

[diabloo]

peliwo could probably hang in the top 100 or even top50, but he isn't top10 material. being taller/bigger helps with the extra power and bigger serve which are weapons that you need to be really successful.

 

[Dan Lobb]

peliwo could probably hang in the top 100 or even top50, but he isn't top10 material. being taller/bigger helps with the extra power and bigger serve which are weapons that you need to be really successful.

You sound like Jack Kramer, who excluded Laver and Rosewall from his top ten because of their physical size.
In spite of that, Laver seemed to own Newcombe and Ashe, and Rosewall owned Stan Smith. Some little men.

 

[TheCanadian]

peliwo could probably hang in the top 100 or even top50, but he isn't top10 material. being taller/bigger helps with the extra power and bigger serve which are weapons that you need to be really successful.

Peliwo just lost in the first round of a Futures in Gatineau, Québec, against some nobody. Hardly impressive. Two small sets.

 

[Dan Lobb]

Peliwo just lost in the first round of a Futures in Gatineau, Québec, against some nobody. Hardly impressive. Two small sets.

He lost to the number two seed.
Hey, the kid's a rookie. Give him time.
Bob Bedard lost to many no-name players, but he beat most of the world's best players eventually, and won three Canadian titles.

 

[Ironwood]

Has anyone mentioned Carling Bassett or Helen Kelesi?

 

[Dan Lobb]

Has anyone mentioned Carling Bassett or Helen Kelesi?

Or Eugenie Bouchard, the reigning Wimbledon girls' champion?

 

[Dan Lobb]

I have found some more stats for Bob Bedard which support his stature as the greatest ever Canadian player.

For one, he defeated the number one player from 15 different countries, including the USA and Australia.

Here are some additional wins and matches against noted players.

1) 1954 University of Miami
df. Frank Froehling (Sr.) 6-4, 6-8, 6-4

2) 1954 Italian
df. Sven Davidson (who would beat Rosewall at Roland Garros that year)
4-6, 3-6, 11-9, 6-3, 6-2
(Bedard lost qf. to Drobny)

3) 1954 Stuttgart
lost final to Gottfried von Cramm 6-4, 6-8, 6-2

4) 1955 Italian
df. Orlando Sirola 2-6, 6-0, 6-4, 2-6, 6-4

5) 1955 Queens Club
df. Nicola Pietrangeli 5-7, 7-5, 6-4

6) 1955 Cannes
df. Jackie Brichant 6-2, 9-11, 6-4

7) 1956 Dixie Championship
df. Bitsy Grant 6-4, 2-6, 6-3

8) 1957 Kent Championships
df. Roy Emerson 6-2, 6-4

9) 1957 O'Keefe (Toronto)
df. Kurt Nielsen 8-6, 1-6, 6-1
(lost semifinal to Davidson)

10) 1957 Sutton Hardcourt Championships (Britain)
df. Bob Howe in the final 6-2, 6-1 to win the championship

11) 1957 Canadian
df. Ramanathan Krishnan in the final 6-1, 1-6, 6-2, 6-4 to win the championship

12) 1957 Wimbledon
df. Torben Ulrich 9-7, 3-6, 7-5, 6-1

13) 1958 Canadian
df. Whitney Reed (ranked #1 in the USA) in the final 6-0, 6-3, 6-3 to defend his championship

14) 1958 USA Championship
df. Eugene Scott 7-5, 7-5, 6-4
lost to Giammalva 10-8, 3-6, 6-8, 7-5, 7-5

15) 1967 British Hard Court Championship
df. John Bartlett 6-4, 6-1, 9-7

In Davis Cup, his greatest win was over Rafael Osuna in 1961, in four sets.

This record is still the best of any Canadian player, and includes four international tournament victories.

Bedard won the Canadian Senior title for age 70-75 in 2006, his eighth Canadian national title (including doubles play). Three mens singles, three mens doubles (with Don Fontana), one mixed doubles, one seniors 70-75. Must be an all-time record.

 

[Dan Lobb]

I have found some more stats for Bob Bedard which support his stature as the greatest ever Canadian player.

For one, he defeated the number one player from 15 different countries, including the USA and Australia.

Here are some additional wins and matches against noted players.

1) 1954 University of Miami
df. Frank Froehling (Sr.) 6-4, 6-8, 6-4

2) 1954 Italian
df. Sven Davidson (who would beat Rosewall at Roland Garros that year)
4-6, 3-6, 11-9, 6-3, 6-2
(Bedard lost qf. to Drobny)

3) 1954 Stuttgart
lost final to Gottfried von Cramm 6-4, 6-8, 6-2

4) 1955 Italian
df. Orlando Sirola 2-6, 6-0, 6-4, 2-6, 6-4

5) 1955 Queens Club
df. Nicola Pietrangeli 5-7, 7-5, 6-4

6) 1955 Cannes
df. Jackie Brichant 6-2, 9-11, 6-4

7) 1956 Dixie Championship
df. Bitsy Grant 6-4, 2-6, 6-3

8) 1957 Kent Championships
df. Roy Emerson 6-2, 6-4

9) 1957 O'Keefe (Toronto)
df. Kurt Nielsen 8-6, 1-6, 6-1
(lost semifinal to Davidson)

10) 1957 Sutton Hardcourt Championships (Britain)
df. Bob Howe in the final 6-2, 6-1 to win the championship

11) 1957 Canadian
df. Ramanathan Krishnan in the final 6-1, 1-6, 6-2, 6-4 to win the championship

12) 1957 Wimbledon
df. Torben Ulrich 9-7, 3-6, 7-5, 6-1

13) 1958 Canadian
df. Whitney Reed (ranked #1 in the USA) in the final 6-0, 6-3, 6-3 to defend his championship

14) 1958 USA Championship
df. Eugene Scott 7-5, 7-5, 6-4
lost to Giammalva 10-8, 3-6, 6-8, 7-5, 7-5

15) 1967 British Hard Court Championship
df. John Bartlett 6-4, 6-1, 9-7

In Davis Cup, his greatest win was over Rafael Osuna in 1961, in four sets.

This record is still the best of any Canadian player, and includes four international tournament victories.

Bob Howe, Bedard's opponent in the 1957 Sutton Hardcourt final, had defeated Rod Laver that year in the Australian championship. Not bad.

 

[Dan Lobb]

Bob Howe, Bedard's opponent in the 1957 Sutton Hardcourt final, had defeated Rod Laver that year in the Australian championship. Not bad.

John Bartlett, whom Bedard defeated in the 1967 British Hardcourt (when Bedard was 36 years old) was a member of the Australian Davis Cup team, and had a victory over Arthur Ashe.

 

[Dan Lobb]

Bob Howe, Bedard's opponent in the 1957 Sutton Hardcourt final, had defeated Rod Laver that year in the Australian championship. Not bad.

Krishnan, Bedard's opponent in the 1957 Canadian final, beat Laver in Davis Cup in 1959, and Emerson at Wimbledon in 1961. Great player.

 

[diabloo]

You sound like Jack Kramer, who excluded Laver and Rosewall from his top ten because of their physical size.
In spite of that, Laver seemed to own Newcombe and Ashe, and Rosewall owned Stan Smith. Some little men.

modern tennis is a lot different now than it was back in those days.

 

[Dan Lobb]

modern tennis is a lot different now than it was back in those days.

You mean that those older players didn't use "special" assistance?

 

[Dan L]

Bedard won the Canadian Senior title for age 70-75 in 2006, his eighth Canadian national title (including doubles play). Three mens singles, three mens doubles (with Don Fontana), one mixed doubles, one seniors 70-75. Must be an all-time record.

Bedard won nine international tournaments, not four as previously noted.

 

[Dan L]

Bedard won nine international tournaments, not four as previously noted.

Watching Raonic lose today at the Halle grass tournament, it seems that he still has work to do on his grass game.

I would still rank Bedard at number one for Canadian players.

 

[ravelok]

IMO Bouchard is already superior to Bassett. She has reached 2 slam semis in a row and Bassett reached only 1 her whole career. Bouchard is competitive with the very best players like Serena and Maria, while Bassett was never competitive with the best players of her time like Navratilova, Evert, and Steffi Graf. Yeah she had one very close match with Evert first time they ever played which was incredible, but could never duplicate that performance against her or any of the other biggest again.

Regardless of what one says against the current womens field, and I agree the very top isnt as strong and stable as it could be, there is far more depth than there was in the Basset days or pretty much any days before the late 90s. So Bassset reaching #8 isnt that big a deal in comparision to Bouchard, and Bouchard will reach that rank or higher soon anyway. Not to take away from Bassett but the 83-86 period she peaked in imparticular was a very depth-less field so achieving a top 10 ranking didnt mean you were even that good.

Raonic though is probably already the best mens player ever easily, and it will probably be between him and Bouchard to see who can achieve the most between the two and be the best Canadian player ever. Both will probably be for their own gender for sure though.

 

[Mainad]

Rusedski had a great win over Sampras in the 1998 Paris final 6-4, 7-6, 6-3, and pushed Sampras to a tough five-setter in the 2002 US Open.
He won 15 tournaments, but only one Masters event, the 1998 Paris.

He was also the only Canadian-born player to make the final of a Grand Slam in singles in the Open Era (1997 US Open).

 

[ravelok]

He was also the only Canadian-born player to make the final of a Grand Slam in singles in the Open Era (1997 US Open).

He isnt anymore Canadian than say Mary Pierce. If we are going to count Rusedski we might as well count Pierce too, and she would easily be the best Canadian player ever in that case.

 

[Phoenix1983]

Raonic and Bouchard will be the greatest male and female players ever produced by Canadia (sic).

Bouchard probably to be the greatest overall.

 

[Dan L]

He isnt anymore Canadian than say Mary Pierce. If we are going to count Rusedski we might as well count Pierce too, and she would easily be the best Canadian player ever in that case.

Both Canuck citizens, born, raised and trained in Canada.

 

[Dan L]

Raonic and Bouchard will be the greatest male and female players ever produced by Canadia (sic).

Bouchard probably to be the greatest overall.

Bedard had more tournament wins, and better groundstrokes.

 

[Mainad]

Both Canuck citizens, born, raised and trained in Canada.

Not sure about Pierce. Her Wiki entry says that, although she was born in Montreal, her father was American and her mother French and that she was raised in the USA before she took French citizenship and played tennis for France. I'm not sure if she ever held Canadian citizenship.

 

[Dan L]

Not sure about Pierce. Her Wiki entry says that, although she was born in Montreal, her father was American and her mother French and that she was raised in the USA before she took French citizenship and played tennis for France. I'm not sure if she ever held Canadian citizenship.

Here's a mystery.

The Canadian media is declaring Raonic the first Canadian man to reach a

slam semi-final since William Johnston in 1923 at the U.S. Championship.

What connection did Johnston have with Canada?

Wasn't he born in San Francisco?

Were his parents Canadian?

 

[hoodjem]

modern tennis is a lot different now than it was back in those days.

Yep, with the courts being so much bigger, pros need all that extra power.

 

[BGod]

Daniel Nestor by a country mile is the most accomplished male tennis player in Canadian history. Just because he's won his titles in Doubles doesn't mean we should raise Raonic above him all of a sudden.

If Raonic does win at least 3 Slams in singles you'd have to consider him in the discussion.

Right now, Nestor is an 8 time Slam Champion with 4 Tour Finals and Olympic Gold. Hard to top.

 

[newmark401]

From "Lawn Tennis and Badminton", May 15, 1957:

"A Canadian Victory at Southport

"Thanks to the very good weather it was possible to complete all events incorporating the sixteenth Southport Easter open tournament in good time in spite of the largest entry ever for the open events.

"Bob Bedard, Champion of Canada, in his first tournament in this country, did not lose a set in winning the men's singles title, defeating Alan Mills, the English International, in the final, 6-2, 6-3. In this match Mills seldom managed to get his first services into court with the result that he had to play a defensive game for the most part. This was fatal against Bedard's brilliant smashing."
-----

 

[Dan L]

From "Lawn Tennis and Badminton", May 15, 1957:

"A Canadian Victory at Southport

"Thanks to the very good weather it was possible to complete all evetnts incorporating the sixteenth Southport Easter open tournament in good time in spite of the largest entry ever for the open events.

"Bob Bedard, Champion of Canada, in his first tournament in this country, did not lose a set in winning the men's singles title, defeating Alan Mills, the English International, in the final, 6-2, 6-3. In this match Mills seldom managed to get his first services into court with the result that he had to play a defensive game for the most part. This was fatal against Bedard's brilliant smashing."
-----

Thanks for the most interesting report.

Bedard usually won his finals in dominant fashion.

 

[Dan L]

Congratulations to the newest Canadian Wimbledon champion Vasek Pospisil, native of western Canada, who teamed with Jack Sock to defeat the Bryans in possibly the greatest men's doubles final in Wimbledon history.

 

[Dan L]

Not sure about Pierce. Her Wiki entry says that, although she was born in Montreal, her father was American and her mother French and that she was raised in the USA before she took French citizenship and played tennis for France. I'm not sure if she ever held Canadian citizenship.

Her Wiki bio claims that she is still a Canadian citizen (actually a citizen of three countries).

Hey, some people doubted that Mary Pickford was a Canadian citizen, but she always travelled under a Canadian passport, and never became an American citizen.

 

[Dan L]

Thanks for the most interesting report.

Bedard usually won his finals in dominant fashion.

Bedard's tournament victory count keeps rising, as it now appears that he won twelve (12) men's singles titles in international tournaments.

Of course, this is a higher count than any other Canadian player in men's singles.

 

[Dan L]

Bedard's tournament victory count keeps rising, as it now appears that he won twelve (12) men's singles titles in international tournaments.

Of course, this is a higher count than any other Canadian player in men's singles.

Apparently, Bedard's win list includes victories over Torben Ulrich, Dick

Savitt, as well as the other distinguished names listed above.

 

[Dan L]

From "Lawn Tennis and Badminton", May 15, 1957:

"A Canadian Victory at Southport

"Thanks to the very good weather it was possible to complete all evetnts incorporating the sixteenth Southport Easter open tournament in good time in spite of the largest entry ever for the open events.

"Bob Bedard, Champion of Canada, in his first tournament in this country, did not lose a set in winning the men's singles title, defeating Alan Mills, the English International, in the final, 6-2, 6-3. In this match Mills seldom managed to get his first services into court with the result that he had to play a defensive game for the most part. This was fatal against Bedard's brilliant smashing."
-----

Mills was a fine player, reaching the Wimbledon round of 16 on two

occasions, defeating Drobny at Wimbledon, and defeating Rod Laver on one occasion in 1961, Laver's breakout year.

Mills won one of his Davis Cup matches by the score of 6-0, 6-0, 6-0.

He was later famous as the chief official at Wimbledon.

Bedard had earlier played the European tour in 1954, but on his return in 1957 he won two tournaments in England, the Southport International, and the Sutton

Hardcourts, where he won decisively over the great Australian doubles expert Bob Howe.

Howe was twice quarter-finalist in singles at the Australian, beating Laver in 1957. He reached the fourth round at Wimbledon several times in singles, and won eight singles titles.

 

[Dan L]

Congratulations to the newest Canadian Wimbledon champion Vasek Pospisil, native of western Canada, who teamed with Jack Sock to defeat the Bryans in possibly the greatest men's doubles final in Wimbledon history.

Pospisil was a singles semi-finalist at last year's Canadian Open.

 

[Dan L]

Pospisil was a singles semi-finalist at last year's Canadian Open.

Pospisil defeat Isner, Stepanek, Berdych, and Davydenko to reach the semi-final in the 2013 Canadian Open.