mike danny
Bionic Poster
Uh....Novak won 2 matches against Nadal in 2007, just like in 2008
is nadal Djokovic the greatest rivalry in tennis history?
- Thread starter dominikk1985
- Start date
TahoeTennis
Legend
Definitely top 10, perhaps top 5
with
Fed Nadal at 1
Agassi Sampras 2
with
Fed Nadal at 1
Agassi Sampras 2
I think Federer-Nadal and McEnroe-Borg are better due to the sheer contrast in styles, the epic Wimbledon finals and the difference in personalities that the members in their respective rivalries represented.
Federer and Borg were ice cold and you could never tell if they were losing or winning a match as they didn't show their feelings too often.
Nadal and McEnroe were fiery, displaying their passion for all the fans to see.
These little toppings added to create a phenomenal recipe for greatness.
I have never felt the amount of electricity in Djokodal matches that I have felt from the Fedal matches; Roger and Rafa are the two greatest players and the two most talented players of all time. They have taken tennis to new heights especially with the modern competition. Roger dominated HC and grass and was second only to Nadal on clay in his prime years on the tour. While Nadal has decimated the competition on clay and adapted well to other surfaces.
Even though Nadal dominates the rivalry h2h, the matches were all very close until 2010. The AO09 will always be my most favorite match of all time for its sheer brilliance and peak level of tennis.
Fedal is the greatest rivalry of the Open Era for me with Borg-McEnroe, a very close second.
Federer and Borg were ice cold and you could never tell if they were losing or winning a match as they didn't show their feelings too often.
Nadal and McEnroe were fiery, displaying their passion for all the fans to see.
These little toppings added to create a phenomenal recipe for greatness.
I have never felt the amount of electricity in Djokodal matches that I have felt from the Fedal matches; Roger and Rafa are the two greatest players and the two most talented players of all time. They have taken tennis to new heights especially with the modern competition. Roger dominated HC and grass and was second only to Nadal on clay in his prime years on the tour. While Nadal has decimated the competition on clay and adapted well to other surfaces.
Even though Nadal dominates the rivalry h2h, the matches were all very close until 2010. The AO09 will always be my most favorite match of all time for its sheer brilliance and peak level of tennis.
Fedal is the greatest rivalry of the Open Era for me with Borg-McEnroe, a very close second.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
I'm in this boat too. I have no time for chopping posts into quotes and responding to each tiny little part.
Get out of here with that crap :lol:
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
OK I will start with some stats about Djokodal, Fedal, and Fedovic (the 3 current blockbuster rivalries) and then I will give my conclusions
Most encounters overall:
1- Djokodal: 42
2- Fedovic: 36
3- Fedal: 33
Least lopsided rivalry overall:
1- Fedovic: 19-17 F
2- Djokodal: 23-19 N
3- Fedal: 23-10 N (!)
Diversity of events where encounters happened :
1- Djokodal: 17 (all tier 1 events except for 1st fall master + Beijing and Queen's)
2- Fedovic: 16 (all tier 1 events except for 3rd clay master and Olympics + Dubai and Basel)
3- Fedal: 11 (never met at USO, Canada, 1st fall master, Paris master, Olympics, DC. They met at rest of tier 1 events + Dubai)
Balanced head to head:
1- Fedovic ( perfect tie: Fed leads Djoko in 6 events (M-C, Cincy, 1st fall master, DC, Dubai, USO) Djoko leads Fed also in 6 events ( AO, IW, Miami, Paris, WTF, Rome). They are tie in 4 events- including 2 slams: Canada, RG, W and Basel)
2- Djokodal (Nadal leads in 8 events (Olympics, USO, M-C, Rome, 3rd clay, RG, DC, Queen's), Djoko in 6 (AO, IW, Miami, Cincy, Paris master, Beijing). They are tie in 3 events: Canada, WTF and W
3- Fedal (Nadal leads in 8 events ( AO, Dubai, Cincy, Miami, RG, M-C, Rome, 3rd clay master), Fed leads in a grand total of 2 events (!!): WTF and W. They're tie only in 1 event: IW)
CONCLUSIONS:
- The first thing that should strike you is that Fedal comes LAST in EVERY single category. Least interesting rivalry in tennis EVER. Most one sided. Extraordinarily "unsuspenseful". What kind of a rivalry at the top doesn't happen at all at a slam like USO over a span of 10 years????????????? The rivalry seemed most promising at W but ended abruptly ages ago (a whopping 6 years). Too many events missing on hard and way too one sided on clay: Fed ever beat Nadal in only 1 of the 4 main clay events (3rd master). Contrast that with Djoko who beat Nadal in 3 out of the 4 clay events and pushed him to a 5th at RG!
- Fedovic beats all records in terms of being even. It is also the most complete rivalry on hard with the most encounters (27 vs 21 for Djokodal and 15 for Fedal). It happened in the 2 slams, 6 masters and WTF, even in DC and 2 500 and is by far the most suspenseful.
- BUT for most exciting I would pick Djokodal hands down. Why?
1- Most encounters overall between 2 top players. Amazing!
2- Most interesting rivalry cross surface (happened in finals of all 4 slams + WTF ) and competitive vs each other on all surfaces
3- Best, longest, most gripping cliffhanger matches ever (RG SF and AO F come to mind. Unlike Fed who tends to fall asleep in last set, both guys have amazing stamina and fighting spirit, they leave everything they have on the court)
4- Sexiest rivalry ever: they're both passionate and expressive and are always "out there" physically, fist pumping, roaring, tearing shirts off and the like. Most intense top guys on a court
5- It has some angst in it. Forget about lenifying "lovey, lovey", this is WAR: wagging fingers, stares, bitter comments/reactions from the entourage. It isn't ALWAYS pretty. One can feel the tension, bring it ON!!!!!!!!!
6- They're very close in age (less than a year apart). 5 years or 6 years (their difference with Fed) is a lot in terms of physical development, athletic potential and onset of wearout and thus make a big difference in most sports.
7- Both of them are the best baseliners ever and the rallies are :shock: nothing short of fabulous.
In a nutshell Djokodal rocks! (and Fedal sucks :twisted
Most encounters overall:
1- Djokodal: 42
2- Fedovic: 36
3- Fedal: 33
Least lopsided rivalry overall:
1- Fedovic: 19-17 F
2- Djokodal: 23-19 N
3- Fedal: 23-10 N (!)
Diversity of events where encounters happened :
1- Djokodal: 17 (all tier 1 events except for 1st fall master + Beijing and Queen's)
2- Fedovic: 16 (all tier 1 events except for 3rd clay master and Olympics + Dubai and Basel)
3- Fedal: 11 (never met at USO, Canada, 1st fall master, Paris master, Olympics, DC. They met at rest of tier 1 events + Dubai)
Balanced head to head:
1- Fedovic ( perfect tie: Fed leads Djoko in 6 events (M-C, Cincy, 1st fall master, DC, Dubai, USO) Djoko leads Fed also in 6 events ( AO, IW, Miami, Paris, WTF, Rome). They are tie in 4 events- including 2 slams: Canada, RG, W and Basel)
2- Djokodal (Nadal leads in 8 events (Olympics, USO, M-C, Rome, 3rd clay, RG, DC, Queen's), Djoko in 6 (AO, IW, Miami, Cincy, Paris master, Beijing). They are tie in 3 events: Canada, WTF and W
3- Fedal (Nadal leads in 8 events ( AO, Dubai, Cincy, Miami, RG, M-C, Rome, 3rd clay master), Fed leads in a grand total of 2 events (!!): WTF and W. They're tie only in 1 event: IW)
CONCLUSIONS:
- The first thing that should strike you is that Fedal comes LAST in EVERY single category. Least interesting rivalry in tennis EVER. Most one sided. Extraordinarily "unsuspenseful". What kind of a rivalry at the top doesn't happen at all at a slam like USO over a span of 10 years????????????? The rivalry seemed most promising at W but ended abruptly ages ago (a whopping 6 years). Too many events missing on hard and way too one sided on clay: Fed ever beat Nadal in only 1 of the 4 main clay events (3rd master). Contrast that with Djoko who beat Nadal in 3 out of the 4 clay events and pushed him to a 5th at RG!
- Fedovic beats all records in terms of being even. It is also the most complete rivalry on hard with the most encounters (27 vs 21 for Djokodal and 15 for Fedal). It happened in the 2 slams, 6 masters and WTF, even in DC and 2 500 and is by far the most suspenseful.
- BUT for most exciting I would pick Djokodal hands down. Why?
1- Most encounters overall between 2 top players. Amazing!
2- Most interesting rivalry cross surface (happened in finals of all 4 slams + WTF ) and competitive vs each other on all surfaces
3- Best, longest, most gripping cliffhanger matches ever (RG SF and AO F come to mind. Unlike Fed who tends to fall asleep in last set, both guys have amazing stamina and fighting spirit, they leave everything they have on the court)
4- Sexiest rivalry ever: they're both passionate and expressive and are always "out there" physically, fist pumping, roaring, tearing shirts off and the like. Most intense top guys on a court
5- It has some angst in it. Forget about lenifying "lovey, lovey", this is WAR: wagging fingers, stares, bitter comments/reactions from the entourage. It isn't ALWAYS pretty. One can feel the tension, bring it ON!!!!!!!!!
6- They're very close in age (less than a year apart). 5 years or 6 years (their difference with Fed) is a lot in terms of physical development, athletic potential and onset of wearout and thus make a big difference in most sports.
7- Both of them are the best baseliners ever and the rallies are :shock: nothing short of fabulous.
In a nutshell Djokodal rocks! (and Fedal sucks :twisted
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veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Borg/McEnroe only played each other 14 times total, in only half the slams and never more than twice at the same event. Come on now! You cannot compare that to Djokodal's formidable longevity/records.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
It doesn't matter.The Borg/McEnroe rivalry was more exciting because their styles were so different IMO.
Also, I agree that Navratilova/Evert was one of the best if not THE best rivalries ever. I'll take them over any of the men's rivalries.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
I don't think one can compare men and women. They have 2 completely different tours for a reason.
Contrast of style, ok but twice at 2 slams doesn't give enough time for the rivalry to fully develop. It hardly started that it's already over.
No, I DEFINITELY think Federer-Nadal is the greatest rivalry ever by far. Everything is just perfect, as if it's a scripted movie. They're the complete opposite. One is a righty, plays on the baseline, likes to come in, plays offensive, has great shotmaking and comes up with the best improvisations, is cool and doesn't show much emotion, has a lean body without being muscular, always dresses clean and classy.
The other is a lefty with pretty unconventional technique, plays behind the baseline, plays more defensive/retrieving, instead of coming to the net he plays great passing shots from behind, instead of shotmaking he pummels his opponents to death, shows lots of passion and emotion, is muscular, dresses like tarzan. The top it off they are all time numbers #1 and #2 (please don't argue this).
The other is a lefty with pretty unconventional technique, plays behind the baseline, plays more defensive/retrieving, instead of coming to the net he plays great passing shots from behind, instead of shotmaking he pummels his opponents to death, shows lots of passion and emotion, is muscular, dresses like tarzan. The top it off they are all time numbers #1 and #2 (please don't argue this).
The_Mental_Giant
Hall of Fame
They are all amazing.
But the 2012 Australian open Final beats any other match I've seen in terms of epicness, and despite of nadal losing Im not afraid of admiting this.
Its hands down the most epic tennis match I've ever seen, and I follow tennis since mid 90's. (so not that few years either)
But the 2012 Australian open Final beats any other match I've seen in terms of epicness, and despite of nadal losing Im not afraid of admiting this.
Its hands down the most epic tennis match I've ever seen, and I follow tennis since mid 90's. (so not that few years either)
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Epic! That's the word I was looking for. Thanks.
Totally agree, very happy to see this
Hope this guy stays this way and this forum doesn't ruin him:wink:I do favor Federer-Nadal more and I am not going to argue that it is definitely better than Djokovic-Nadal, but another thing I find truly epic is that Federer and Nadal ended each other's longest winning streaks on a single surface. Federer ended Nadal's 81-match winning streak on clay, and Nadal ended Federer's 56-match winning streak on hard courts and 65-match winning streak on grass. Maybe if Nadal had been the one to end Djokovic's early-2011 run, it would be a little more epic in that aspect for Djokovic-Nadal.
World Beater
Hall of Fame
In terms of unpredictability and being an "even" rivalry.
novak-nadal is my pick.
Their rivalry does lack some of the pizzaz of the federer-nadal rivalry because there isn't a historical implication in many of their matches...
but in terms of a one-on-one matchup..its extremely compelling.
Federer - nadal has great aura, history, significance..but as a one-on-one rivalry..nadal just has too much on federer in this matchup...federer just didnt win enough matches and the results just being too predictable between the two.
Federer - djokovic is great for the tennis, but if the match is close, federer will likely lose...again prefer novak-nadal.
novak-nadal is my pick.
Their rivalry does lack some of the pizzaz of the federer-nadal rivalry because there isn't a historical implication in many of their matches...
but in terms of a one-on-one matchup..its extremely compelling.
Federer - nadal has great aura, history, significance..but as a one-on-one rivalry..nadal just has too much on federer in this matchup...federer just didnt win enough matches and the results just being too predictable between the two.
Federer - djokovic is great for the tennis, but if the match is close, federer will likely lose...again prefer novak-nadal.
Anti-Fedal
Professional
Not even close.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
I agree man. I do enjoy Djokodal matches themselves, but outside of that, it just doesn't have that Fedal feeling at all.
eldanger25
Hall of Fame
I think Federer-Nadal and Borg-Mac were greater, ATP Open Era-wise (also Laver-Rosewall, to the extent that carried over through those great early Open Era Dallas WCT finals).
Nadal-Djokovic is right underneath, alongside Connors-Borg, Sampras-Agassi, and Mac-Lendl.
Nadal-Djokovic is right underneath, alongside Connors-Borg, Sampras-Agassi, and Mac-Lendl.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
You and Kanda make some great points, but at the end of the day, I'm more in line with Zoid below, because of the contrast in styles argument. My, by far, favorite match-up these days is Fed-Nole, because there's a contrast and because the outcome is still mostly uncertain and because the overall tennis is more attack than defense, when they meet (and because I like Fed's tennis the most, so am biased in that regard as well).
But of course
Absolutely.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
kandamrgam
Hall of Fame
Thanks mate, I did miss that! I have added it to my list in first page. Just an acknowledgment for having plagiarized
kandamrgam
Hall of Fame
Just out of curiosity, which are the rivalries that has 5 set matches in 3 or more different slams?
Also which rivalry has the most number of 5 set GS matches played in a rivalry in Open Era? I can't think of any, except Federer-Nadal which has 3.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
How is your username pronounced?
Noelan
Legend
It is .Accros all surfaces, all conditions, all GS finals, WTF, Masters..OI..Both players are willing to improve their game and meet the challenges that set one to each other. Despite their exeptional defensive abilities, they are two completely different players, different strenghts, and differernt weakneses.
Fedal is great rivalry for sure, but to loopsided and one dimensional, Nadal abusing Federer weak BH for ages in this match up, nothing has changed in 10 years of their rivalry. Not single encounter from 2004/2014 at USO , wow .
In terms of media hype about it Fedal- is, it is enough to look here.
Fedal is great rivalry for sure, but to loopsided and one dimensional, Nadal abusing Federer weak BH for ages in this match up, nothing has changed in 10 years of their rivalry. Not single encounter from 2004/2014 at USO , wow .
In terms of media hype about it Fedal- is, it is enough to look here.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
As admirable as your conviction is, the poll says you're wrong.
Noelan
Legend
I'm wrong for stating my opinion ,only here
. Relax kido , go watch some cartoons and make some gifs, you are great with that. And don't mind Novak , pretend that he does'nt exist at all in tennis.eldanger25
Hall of Fame
Connors-Mac had 3 as well (2 USO, 1 SW19), plus a few other big 5 setters at the US Pro Indoor and Wembley (a la Federer-Nadal Miami 2005, Rome 2006). Fed-Novak had 3 at the slams too (2 USO, 1 SW19).
Not sure if anybody but Federer-Nadal had 3 5 setters all at GS title fights - though I do think Laver and Rosewall played 5 setters at the finals of all 3 pro slams in the 60s, plus the 1972 WCT finals.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
I'm wrong for stating my opinion ,only here. Relax kido , go watch some cartoons and make some gifs, you are great with that. And don't mind Novak , pretend that he does'nt exist at all in tennis.
:lol: I don't watch cartoons but thanks kiddo. Neither do I make gifs. I do a great job of paying Novak no attention, and I'm relaxed 24/7, unlike the hater I just made mad
D
Deleted member 716271
Guest
For me Fedal was and still is, but much like Rafa has a chance to surpass Fed in my eye as the GOAT, Djokodal has a chance to surpass Fedal as the best rivalry.
To me Djokodal is the best for the combination of competitiveness and the gladiatorial, athletic display. Epic was a great word.
But it doesn't quite have the historical feel of Fedal:
Things it needs to do so:
Nadal needs to either break the slam record or be clearly stopped by Djokovic (i.e. they have many more meetings and the result of these meetings have a direct bearing on Nadal getting to 18 or not).
Djokovic needs to finish with around 10 slams or more so his career is elevated to Borg level which will lend some more retroactive gravity to their meetings.
To me Djokodal is the best for the combination of competitiveness and the gladiatorial, athletic display. Epic was a great word.
But it doesn't quite have the historical feel of Fedal:
Things it needs to do so:
Nadal needs to either break the slam record or be clearly stopped by Djokovic (i.e. they have many more meetings and the result of these meetings have a direct bearing on Nadal getting to 18 or not).
Djokovic needs to finish with around 10 slams or more so his career is elevated to Borg level which will lend some more retroactive gravity to their meetings.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Nail on the head.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
You fool yourself
I do not know who the haters that you feel angry. You are harmless kid.
Mmhmm, post that smiley bro
D
Deleted member 716271
Guest
It's a shame for Nole that he only has 1/2 of Rafa's total. You would think he would have more by the fact that he has been the best or close 2nd best player in the world for 3 whole years and has been on the scene as a GS winner since AO 2008, dating back to before Wimby 08 (seems AGES ago)
He really needs to keep the pedal to the metal and convert opportunities in grand slams if he wants to go down in the same breath as Rafa. That would help the rivalry historically.
He really needs to keep the pedal to the metal and convert opportunities in grand slams if he wants to go down in the same breath as Rafa. That would help the rivalry historically.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
Mmhmm, post that smiley bro
I laughed at this more than I should.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
He hasn't had the advantage of being able to stack titles at one particular slam.
kandamrgam
Hall of Fame
It's actually "kandamrgam". I wrongly misspelt as "kandamrigam". Is there a way I can change it now? :shock:It's pronounced as "kaandaamr'gam".
It means rhinoceros in my native tongue. Just a funny name, that's all. It's not my name
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kandamrgam
Hall of Fame
Thanks for that!
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
I'm among those who think there's more to a rivalry than the stats. Djokodal rivalry hasn't got that special aura that lies upon some other rivalries, very possibly because it hasn't gone down in history yet, and their rivalry is far from over. Fedal has an opposites attracts-vibe to it, which makes it more interresting. It has become the definition of tennis rivalry in our time for most people (not referring to people on the board!)
But the all time best rivalry is Evertlova
But the all time best rivalry is Evertlova
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Djokovic pretty much made tennis interesting again. Up until 2011, slams would either be won by Federer or Nadal. Federer would win unless he faced Nadal and Nadal would win if he wasn't injured or beaten by a player playing the match of his life.
Somehow Djokovic managed to fulfill his potential from 2011 and that lead to two of the greatest rivalries of all time: Djokovic vs Nadal and Djokovic vs Federer. In my opinion the latter of the two is somewhat more interesting, but both are great rivalries and made (the late stages of) tennis and especially slams interesting again.
Somehow Djokovic managed to fulfill his potential from 2011 and that lead to two of the greatest rivalries of all time: Djokovic vs Nadal and Djokovic vs Federer. In my opinion the latter of the two is somewhat more interesting, but both are great rivalries and made (the late stages of) tennis and especially slams interesting again.
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