Low, low tensions. 30lbs feels great. 20lbs pretty good, too
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mikeler
Moderator
For a beginner, focus on learning proper technique. I started really focusing on strings in my mid to late 30s. At that point, I was looking for any advantage I could get as middle age starts to slowly sneak in.
Matthew Lee
Professional
Lowest I've ever gone was with the Prince Problend Kevlar and Syn. Gut.
38 pounds Kevlar mains and 42 pounds Syn. Gut crosses.
Died after an hour.
38 pounds Kevlar mains and 42 pounds Syn. Gut crosses.
Died after an hour.
shamaho
Professional
Can't think of a reason NOT to try low tensions...
But I can see reasons NOT to use medium to high tensions for beginners...
imho mid to high tensions are for persons with big power and high speed swings needing control... beginners usually employ low speed to mid speed swings, so low tension not only will be comfortable, it will also prevent beginners to "muscle" the ball - thus I would think it could prove helpful to develop proper technique.
String Theory
New User
Dunlop Black Widow 16g at 45lbs in a 98sq inch racquet works for me. It's a trade-off between control and comfort.
MasturB
Legend
Also depends on the type of stringing machine. I own a Babs Star 4 and usually the rule of thumb is an electric strings 4-5 lbs tighter than a manual crank/drop. With poly especially the difference is noticeable. At the club I worked at we had a manual, so if someone wanted poly at 52, I would probably string the same setup at 46-47lbs on my Babs Star 4. So perhaps Sock is stringing at 32 but on the electric it's actually 37-38lbs.
Before I bought my stringer, my local tennis shop would string mine at 55-56 on a crank. Now I normally string 50-51lbs on my Babs Star 4. When I initially strung the same setup at 55-56 on the electric the ball was flying. Stringbed stiff like a ping pong paddle. No grip on the ball.
Karma Tennis
Legend
I've tried a medium stiff slippery round 1.30mm Poly at mid 30s in a Wilson Steam 99S (16x15 pattern). Serve was good but found it very hard to control on groundstrokes. Launch angle was way too high for my liking on FH. Slice BH was about the only decent shot I could produce but even that took a lot of work.
mikeler
Moderator
I've been using Volkl Cyclone at 30# for a few months now to combat tennis elbow in a soft 16x16 frame. I still prefer the tighter feel of 60# but it does not seem to affect my results on the court much. It seems that footwork, concentration, mental toughness, fitness etc. are just more important for me.
mnttlrg
Professional
Honestly, for me, the purpose of going with low tension is to get access to much bigger spin and somewhat higher launch angle without having to compromise the density of the string pattern, so I wouldn't bother to play 16x16 with it.
IMO, there is a point where the density of the string bed / size of the head gets spaced out enough that it sort of overspins, loops around, and loses its drive. You end up hitting goofy looper shots without anything on them.
cg.tennis
Rookie
I string all my Youtek IG Extreme Pro 2.0 with Cyclone 18 or 18L with 40 lbs main, and Forten Sweet 17 at 38 lbs cross. It feels great and I played many matches with it.
IMO, lower tension is very helpful for generating spin during wrist snap or pronation. This happens when I do forehand windshield wiper or kick serve. My elbow feels less impact to generate the same amount of spin.
IMO, lower tension is very helpful for generating spin during wrist snap or pronation. This happens when I do forehand windshield wiper or kick serve. My elbow feels less impact to generate the same amount of spin.
Karma Tennis
Legend
The challenge here is the potential loss of directional control because wrist snap and pronation have very small margins of error. A small variation in either can cause a huge variation at the far end of the court.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Exactly why would I string poly low and then have to adjust to its super high trajectory and trampoline action. Good for you guys that can use it at low tensions I've tried it and I can play with it but not near as good as high tension. I use full poly at 65-70 lbs and I like it at high tension much much better. Now that I'm playing outside I like Kevlar mains with a poly x's it has even better control than full poly.
dak95_00
Hall of Fame
I tried low tension years ago with a Prince Graphite 90 with a 14x18 string pattern and didn't like the high trajectory. It did produce some crazy spin but I couldn't control it. Even though I'd played that racquet since 1988, I've been struggling with the trajectory for awhile.
I switched racquets a couple of times and found that the Head i.Prestige MP XL with its 18x20 pattern and the Prince Mono with its 16x21 pattern both gave me much more consistent results with trajectory. Recently a 5.0 friend of mine told me he was having shoulder problems so he went to 35lbs with Isospeed Spin 17 in his Babolat Pure Strike Tour 18x20 and loved it. He felt the key to control is/was the tight string pattern such as the 18x20 so I tried it in my racquets. The Prestige is at 35 and the Mono is at 40.
I only played the Mono and really liked it. I felt like the ball was on the racquet for a long time and I had tremendous control. I'll have to hit with the Prestige and play around with lower tensions. I believe the string pattern plays a huge role in this. As my friend suggested, string gauge will also play a role.
It should be noted I'm not a racquet or string sensitive player.
I switched racquets a couple of times and found that the Head i.Prestige MP XL with its 18x20 pattern and the Prince Mono with its 16x21 pattern both gave me much more consistent results with trajectory. Recently a 5.0 friend of mine told me he was having shoulder problems so he went to 35lbs with Isospeed Spin 17 in his Babolat Pure Strike Tour 18x20 and loved it. He felt the key to control is/was the tight string pattern such as the 18x20 so I tried it in my racquets. The Prestige is at 35 and the Mono is at 40.
I only played the Mono and really liked it. I felt like the ball was on the racquet for a long time and I had tremendous control. I'll have to hit with the Prestige and play around with lower tensions. I believe the string pattern plays a huge role in this. As my friend suggested, string gauge will also play a role.
It should be noted I'm not a racquet or string sensitive player.
WYK
Hall of Fame
I've found for me that another factor that changes with lower tensions is I can now weight up my racket more and not rocket balls everywhere. I can also put more of that weight in the racket head. This makes a good difference in spin, control, and comfort. I play closer to even balance nowadays. I'm stringing in the 39# range with BBO crossed with 36# 15g wilson poly(revolve/spin, whatever it's called nowadays) on Wilson 97's and a pair of Babo teams weighted to a bit over 12 ounces. I tried a Babo Team at 12 ounces with babolat nylon, and the flat serves were quite good - but everything else was much more difficult to control than the poly combo.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Probably a sweet spot. If you go to heavy you will need to up tensionAgree ... good suggestion if the tension is too low/powerful than leadup and see if you can tame the beast
WYK
Hall of Fame
There are so many variables in play, you can't really make such a blanket statement. One of the sticks I have used was nearly 13 ounces and strung at 30# with TBH, and played fine.What experiences do you have with ELT's and low tensions?
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Yeah i should qualify swing weight not jist weight. And by heavy I mean 380-400sw
I typically talk from experience and not my ass
Was playing as low as 15-20lbs. Sticks back then were 16oz but majorly headlight like 32 points. Pretty sure sw was around 320-330 perhaps. As I went up in sw i needed to raise tension. Now at 400sw i need high tensions or the stick is just way too powerful.
Have you played with swing weights over 370??
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
A
Attila_the_gorilla
Guest
I go to local open tournaments regularly, just to watch. Most of the players are junior age, trying to become touring pros. Have had a chat with a bunch of them about equipment. The ones I spoke to pretty much all say the same thing. When they were less advanced, they used to string tight, cos they were worried about overhitting. Some said around 60-ish, some a bit less. Now at near pro level they tend to string much looser. They did not elaborate why, just one guy said for control. I assume he meant control by topspin.
With poly and other slippery strings, stringing is a whole different beast.
When I was more of a beginner, I was stringing multi/zyex around 60 lb. And I used very low powered rackets. This gave me freedom to swing for the fences and still not overhit.
Eventually as I improved, my focus shifted from just being consistent to actually having weapons. So I started thinking about how to maximize my power without losing accuracy. Ended up raising the swingweight to around pro level, and also using powerful strings. Of course I knew that to be able to hit with pace, I needed topspin, so made sure my strings were not only powerful but also spin friendly. Settled around 40-45 lbs in summer.
The rest is up to me, the applicator.
With poly and other slippery strings, stringing is a whole different beast.
When I was more of a beginner, I was stringing multi/zyex around 60 lb. And I used very low powered rackets. This gave me freedom to swing for the fences and still not overhit.
Eventually as I improved, my focus shifted from just being consistent to actually having weapons. So I started thinking about how to maximize my power without losing accuracy. Ended up raising the swingweight to around pro level, and also using powerful strings. Of course I knew that to be able to hit with pace, I needed topspin, so made sure my strings were not only powerful but also spin friendly. Settled around 40-45 lbs in summer.
The rest is up to me, the applicator.
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zalive
Hall of Fame
Low tensions started to make sense with poly, simply it should and must work much better with less elastic strings.
Just for the understanding, I'm not sure though which head size racquets did you use low tensions with though Shroud? Because with OS racquets such as BLX2 or Profile OS, I can imagine it's exactly as you say and nothing less than high tension will tame it when SW goes high, but what about smaller head size? Less power from the head size, less string bed stretching, I'd guess you can allow more SW than with an OS.
FV_Br
Rookie
very precise answer, thank you!
Karma Tennis
Legend
Many decent junior players who are properly advised start out using SG or Multi. It makes sense to string those a lot tighter. As the player develops, again if they are well advised, they will transition to Poly/SG hybrids and then perhaps to full beds of thin gauge Poly and then finally thicker gauge Poly - possibly Poly/Poly hybrids.
As they transition to Poly they will probably reduce Ref tension. Players that look at SBS rather than Ref. Tensions will never have to focus on tensions. Focusing on optimum SBS requires the player (parent, coach, etc.) to understand the concept of SBS. In my experience, not many do which is to their detriment in the longer term.
Also, many junior players start out using stiff racquet frames and usually stick to them throughout their development. Stiff racquet frames with stiff string configurations often don't work very well together and can be a cause of tennis related arm injuries in junior players. Most junior players I observe tend to move to lower tensions because they are forced to as a result of physical injury.
IMO, main reasons why many players don't elaborate is because either they don't understand the important finer points of all of this, or because they don't want others to know that they have suffered physical injuries as a result of poor decisions earlier on.
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zalive
Hall of Fame
What is SBS?
Imago
Hall of Fame
String Bed Stiffness - which actually doesn't tell much about the particular behavior of the mains and the crosses. I prefer individual string final tension.
Karma Tennis
Legend
Why?
Imago
Hall of Fame
Because of the incomputable difference in final tension between mains and crosses. SBS is different when there is gap between mains and crosses final tension given one and the same RT but different (poly) strings. With K Max Power it can be 1 kg, while with most poly it's min 3 kg ranging up to 7 and more kg when all strung at one and the same tension. And there is also a frame to be factored in. Of course, all this cannot be a big problem when you string low.
WYK
Hall of Fame
We were using gut and nylon. Which is not what this thread is about. It's about using poly at low tensions. Chris was experimenting with lower tensions and sharing his findings. Those of us whom also were experimenting were sharing ours. It's not meant to be a debate about high tensions or mid VS low. That is a fairly subjective debate at best. Your last statement is a good example. Personally, I find a higher SW and faster RHS makes better use of low tension poly set ups. I have seen your videos, Shroud(as have many others); you have a fairly slow swing speed. I would not expect you to really benefit from any sort of poly. In fact, I would suggest you go to a smaller racquet and stick with nylon or gut. If you like high tension, gut at 65# in a mid size frame might work better for you.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
I had to stop using gut because i shredded it. Was using vs touch/zx iirc. Liked it but it didnt last. I have many vids and its easy to take them out of context. Most of those vids are me messing around or working on something. Anyhow I dont think Inswing slow like you say. Sure compared to pros and d-1 guys but rec players my level?? Dont think so.
Look at this vid (ignore the buggy whips as I mentioned i mess around) its not a slow swing for a 4.0. Not saying it is fast either but definately can benefit from poly.
Its good advise for most players the setup you mention. But i like stiff racquets and they only make noodles in 95” frames. If you find a midsize with a 72+ ra let me know. Super hard to find that.
4-string
Professional
Yet another thread derailed by Shroud’s high sw/high tension musings. [emoji6]
As always, backed up by video evidence that as soon as hitting or form get critized, for some reason are taken out of context. [emoji12]
You are of course entitled to using high tensions and weights. I just don’t understand why you keep posting this stuff. You know very well how people react to it.
As always, backed up by video evidence that as soon as hitting or form get critized, for some reason are taken out of context. [emoji12]
You are of course entitled to using high tensions and weights. I just don’t understand why you keep posting this stuff. You know very well how people react to it.
Karma Tennis
Legend
I'm sorry but I don't get your point. Isn't a string bed a string bed? Main strings and Cross strings contribute certain playing characteristics to the overall characteristics of the string bed. But the string bed plays as a string bed. Afaic, the main factor that affects the "feel" of a string bed is the SBS. The composition of the strings and the Reference tensions may offer certain advantages and/or disadvantages. However, imo the "feel" as experienced by the player is a primary indicator used by the player. The "feel" gives them confidence to accept that each freshly strung racquet will play the same as the previous one. I believe the best way to provide consistent "feel" to players is to give them racquets with the same initial SBS. Once the SBS drops below the level the player can no longer tolerate, it is time to provide a freshly strung racquet.
The main challenge with stringing very low is that the string bed is a lot less predictable. This means the player has to provide a lot more input into the stroke in order to compensate for that unpredictability. IMO, the less the player has to concern themselves with this the more "resource" they have available to them to actually play the game.
WYK
Hall of Fame
There is no 'but'. You aren't special. None of us are. If you want to play a sport, and play it well, you would take advice from those with more experience. Many of us have done so and are all the better for it. If you want to learn things the hard way, that's your business. I just suggest you don't waste other's time by asking for support and advise if you are simply going to ignore it. But, then again, that's simply advice...
purdyd
Rookie
36lbs fresh Wilson revolve copoly 16gauge today. Just casual doubles tennis. I'm a believer. Really easy to generate a deep top spin ball without having to hit the cover off the ball. Might have launched a little higher but the spin brought it down. Nice large sweet spot. Very easy on my arm too.
I just hope it will keep its magic going for a reasonable amount of time.
I just hope it will keep its magic going for a reasonable amount of time.
I'm currently playing with 4 Prince Warrior 100 ESP frames (14/16). 2 sticks are strung at 46/42 (revolve spin 16/ Volk cyclone 16) and the others are at 42/38. The launch angle is higher but I can instinctively keep the ball lower if someone comes to net. The higher launch angle actually bothers some players as it's not easy hitting higher arching balls with nasty topspin earlier. What I have discovered is that I can't be lazy with my footwork and really need to commit to every shot or the balls can fly long. I get longer string life by stringing lower and it's more comfortable on the arm. Volleys took a little time to get used to. It's winter here in Asia right now so I might have to reassess string tension when the temp goes up in the spring. I play on clay at the 5.0 level.
18x20 prince rebel 95 the 1st version with the spider graphics. How low should I go, this 56lbs kevlar + the dense pattern and small head is awful for my arm. Oh I also hate stringing 18x20 on a 95. I heard some like the string hole grommets at 3 and 9 and the port grommets on the top and bottom. Any recommendations.
A
Attila_the_gorilla
Guest
Use the most powerful strings you can afford (with slippery crosses), and at lower tensions. You'll need to experiment how low you're comfortable.
If were you, I'd also use a more powerful racket. That one is too much work.
Haha no doubt, this racket is heavy, small and dense. I'm hoping the low tension will work, I've got 4 or 5 them so I'm not exactly looking forward to buying 4 new rackets, but it may come to that.
A
Attila_the_gorilla
Guest
And very flexible, which makes it very hard to defend with! Too little power.
Harry_Wild
G.O.A.T.
Will try 35 lbs. at next stringing from 44 lbs currently! 97" Wilson Ultra Tour!
HunterST
Hall of Fame
So, this thread has become huge and unmanageable, but it seems like the excitement about very low tensions has waned over the life of thread. Originally, people said tensions around 30 gave more spin, equal power, and just as much if not more control.
It seems like we've gone back to the more conventional wisdom that the very low tension does lessen control but offers good power and spin.
How have your views on these types of tensions changed? Anyone know if Chris ultimately stuck with a very low tension like 30 lbs, or did he end up back more in the low 50s?
It seems like we've gone back to the more conventional wisdom that the very low tension does lessen control but offers good power and spin.
How have your views on these types of tensions changed? Anyone know if Chris ultimately stuck with a very low tension like 30 lbs, or did he end up back more in the low 50s?
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purdyd
Rookie
So I cut my low tension poly out and put back in gut/poly (proportional stringing this time).
I got a lot of spin but in the end, the gut poly gave me a better feel (and is a touch easier on the arm) and enough spin. I didn't really feel I suffered in control.
But if this makes sense, the low tension poly would hit higher and with lots of spin but if I didn't get over the top enough to get that spin, it would fly. Also, my normal forehand would not land as deep so I would have to swing harder again, leading to some flyers. I didn't get a crisp volley either.
But, I am glad I tried and and I think it is worth a try for anyone who really likes the poly feel and has the grooved modern swing to take advantage of it.
I got a lot of spin but in the end, the gut poly gave me a better feel (and is a touch easier on the arm) and enough spin. I didn't really feel I suffered in control.
But if this makes sense, the low tension poly would hit higher and with lots of spin but if I didn't get over the top enough to get that spin, it would fly. Also, my normal forehand would not land as deep so I would have to swing harder again, leading to some flyers. I didn't get a crisp volley either.
But, I am glad I tried and and I think it is worth a try for anyone who really likes the poly feel and has the grooved modern swing to take advantage of it.
RyanRF
Professional
My experiments got down to the 30s. I found that low tension improves power, spin, and comfort.. but at the cost of control. I also found that the longer the strings sat on the racquet, the worse the control got. When first strung at 35 or 40 everything was working well, but after a few hours of play my shots would go long.
Yes I know this happens with all string/tension configurations, but it just seemed more dramatic when using low tensions. If I was willing to restring weekly then I'd probably have stuck with it.
Today I'm back to playing at higher tensions, though lower than where I started. I'm using full poly in the low 50s. Playing 3-4 days a week. Restringing every 3 weeks or so.
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Karma Tennis
Legend
Consider a string bed. The more movement there is in a string bed, the greater the variation in actual ball contact on the bed, the greater the variation in the speed, direction and spin level the ball has when it leaves the string bed. "Simple physics" as they say.
Consider a baseball bat or a cricket bat. When a ball makes contact at the same place on the bat, it will usually leave the bat in the same way.
The tighter the string bed, the more it behaves like a bat.
I could never understand the ELT philosophy. I tried it on several occasions in several different environments, but the results were always as expected, always as explained by the Physics.
For me, the solution to arm related issues is not ELT Poly string beds. It is softer tennis racquets and / or more arm friendly string types like NG and Multi.
As always, YMMV !
Consider a baseball bat or a cricket bat. When a ball makes contact at the same place on the bat, it will usually leave the bat in the same way.
The tighter the string bed, the more it behaves like a bat.
I could never understand the ELT philosophy. I tried it on several occasions in several different environments, but the results were always as expected, always as explained by the Physics.
For me, the solution to arm related issues is not ELT Poly string beds. It is softer tennis racquets and / or more arm friendly string types like NG and Multi.
As always, YMMV !