Weaponize your one handed back hand.

[jackcrawford]

I believe tennis federations all over the world subscribe to it for their juniors, Serbs, Spaniards, etc., and it's a reason why they are now beating us at our own game.

And there is the Gordon piece on the pro fh everyone is talking about, right above mine.

As to the first point, in the same way Priority 1 subscribes to the threads here about "polarized" racquets? LOL

As to the second, Heath Waters put out the same information ten years ago in plain Engilsh, rather than technobabble, on a couple of sites.

 

[kiteboard]

That shot happens to be the reason why Fed loses to Nadal on clay: high balls to his bh side are the key to all those losses. He only slices for the most part, off the high shots, or tries to go low to high rather than straight through the shot like I do. He also lifts his hitting foot off the ground during that shot on that video, and on almost all his bh. It's also out of context to the article, which correlates it all together, and has lots of other videos of all sorts of back hands, low balls, medium wide, on the run, short balls, etc.

 

[SFrazeur]

1. If you do not know about Tennisplayer.net you are not ignorant. You are just missing out.

2. Tennisplayer.net is in need of a redesign. However, not for aesthetic reasons but for better mobil phone use.

3. I do not personally like Geoff's articles. I find them egotistical and self-serving. He just comes off to me as "I know more than you. I am awesome for it." That said the article "Weaponize" contains a lot of correct and insightful technical information. Unfortunately, I have seen the same and better insight put out for free in a lot more objective form.

4. I find the article "weaponize" most disappointing. I prefer technical articles to be more objective about how a great model is preformed and how you can preform it yourself. Instead this article gives far too much credence to the "uni-grip" (which impedes versatility to one games) and his baseball backswing that gives no provable advantage. While effective his backhand is hardly of good model. I'd like to see John write a "Your strokes" article over his groundstrokes.

5. While I have problems with said articles I have a huge amount of respect for Yandell and his work. My disagreement is not personal but merely amounts to a professional disagreement.

6. On the other hand, Geoff's article have inspired me, in the mind set of "I can do better than that" to look into writing my own article for submission. Perhaps sometime in the future.

7. Seven is supposed to be a lucky number. Carry on. I'm done now. As you were.

-SF

 

[kiteboard]

I didn't think KB said anything condescending. The guys with the negative comments are coming off much worse.

Thanks! Listen to this guy. You can tell when someone on the board has an agenda other than the comment: unfair, emotionally based, insulting, attacking in nature rather than positive. It's the positive builders here and everywhere that make life better, not worse. The advantage of the uni grip is no time is lost on a grip change, no time lost on returns, and forces you to commit to attacking your bh return, without a chicken wing take back, more like the two handers use, with both hands on the grip on take back. That saves a few miliseconds and allows for a simpler, quicker coil and is a secret advantage two handers have over one handers on quick exchanges, due to no chicken wing take back with the non dom. arm in a bunting position like a batter bunting the ball on an at bat/take back chicken wing style is not there in my shot.

Old school types don't appreciate my shot, due to its unorthodox nature. Few can master it. It's difficulty does not make it better. Just a shot not covered by anyone else online anywhere. Kohlschreiber uses it on returns when hitting bh top.

There are pros and cons to it: cons are if you don't get under the lower balls by allowing them to come into your body more, you net the ball with the western grip. You also become more dependent on topspin and stop using slice, that most old school types love so much. Slice is a good tool on the lower ranges of play, but at higher levels, it just allows them more time usually, unless driven low and short. Pros: way more power in the arm bar shots. Way more rpm when hit for rpms on slower surfaces and when the balls get fuzzy and slower. The ability to hit flat or top equally well off the same look. Cons: if frame not taken back high on high balls, you go long, or if you don't allow high ball contact further out front, you go long.

 

[kiteboard]

Fed hit a pretty good high backhand here against Nadal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL87F0C85ECE631F82&feature=player_detailpage&v=ZMc9HGLR70s

That is hard court, not clay, and fed rises up off his hitting foot too early on that shot, and goes too far under the ball on the swing forward. Nice clip though, and he can't do that on clay as the ball bounces higher.

 

[djarvik]

Kiteboard is clearly here to market the site.
I mean you post a link to the main page of the site, clearly recognizing that there is only one way to see that article - and that is to register.

I think it is wrong. I see what John Yandel is doing here though. Marketing wise, letting players write their own articles, of course they would wont people reading them.....so they will attempt to bring in new customers. Not a bad idea, but using forums for this is wrong. Especially forums that are sorta designed for helping others, free of charge.

 

[mikeler]

Kiteboard,

How can you not have more of a tan living in California?

 

[kiteboard]

Have not played much due to injury/work. PUlled my calf, etc. Not much court time lately. I'm just here to help people improve and only, not to market anything else but that, so that people can enjoy the game more and get more enjoyment out of their shots/life, and that's it. For those who can get value out of the piece, or the site, great. For those who can't, I'd say ignore the thread, and go out and enjoy your own game anyway! To all the positive posters: keep it up.

But the truth is, Yandells' site helps due to articles and videos, and juniors and tennis federations all over the world see the site every day, and are using it seriously. Not for the people who just want to denigrate, but for those who are serious about improving and are willing to read/think/see for themselves based on positive intent.

 

[kiteboard]

Kiteboard is clearly here to market the site.
I mean you post a link to the main page of the site, clearly recognizing that there is only one way to see that article - and that is to register.

I think it is wrong. I see what John Yandel is doing here though. Marketing wise, letting players write their own articles, of course they would wont people reading them.....so they will attempt to bring in new customers. Not a bad idea, but using forums for this is wrong. Especially forums that are sorta designed for helping others, free of charge.

He had nothing to do with this thread at all. I put it up for people of my own volition, because I was happy with the article and the videos and thought it would help many willing to improve their one handers. Didn't even tell John about it at all.

 

[SFrazeur]

Kiteboard is clearly here to market the site.
I mean you post a link to the main page of the site, clearly recognizing that there is only one way to see that article - and that is to register.

I think it is wrong. I see what John Yandel is doing here though. Marketing wise, letting players write their own articles, of course they would wont people reading them.....so they will attempt to bring in new customers. Not a bad idea, but using forums for this is wrong. Especially forums that are sorta designed for helping others, free of charge.

You are way off base. I have never seen Yandel advertise on here himself or through other people.

 

[djarvik]

He is not "directing" people to advertise. The way his website is built,
is that if you want to read OP's article - you have to register. By OP seeking
audience here on TT, he advertises Johns business. This is a rather good
marketing plan on Jon's part, so if anything, I admire that.

Problem is, for me, that OP completely neglects that, even after confronted by
others. The presentation of "Hey, I have an article, go read it...oh, and you
have to pay for it" made on a free forum that is geared to help players free of
charge is what bothers me.

I am not saying that you kiteboard, collaborated with John on this, but it sure looks like it.
And if it never crossed your mind, then you are very naive. But then why the response
when others point it out? ..granted, in less then "nice" way.

 

[SFrazeur]

You are reading far too much into this. It is nothing more than a guy proud of his work and wanted to show it off by putting it on the fridge for people to see.

-SF

 

[tennis_balla]

I don't see anything worthwhile from that video. The grip and technique is not something that should be used as an example for others to copy.

 

[djarvik]

...and I WANT to see it! But I don't want to pay. What should do now?

 

[Limpinhitter]

I don't see anything worthwhile from that video. The grip and technique is not something that should be used as an example for others to copy.

I basically said the same thing and my post was deleted. Unbelievable.

 

[djarvik]

I basically said the same thing and my post was deleted. Unbelievable.

On TT or there?

 

[tennis_balla]

A few posts of mine here got deleted earlier in the day when I was arguing with Tom, but TW had a right to do so as it was off topic as well.

Anyways, someone posted a link to the video in one of the previous pages, gotta find it. I'm stating my opinion because this is an open discussion. I'm sure kiteboard in his written up article states some good things about the one hander on that site, and I know its Yandell's site and the content it has. However, I don't believe that video to be a good example of how to hit a one handed backhand.

 

[Limpinhitter]

On TT or there?

On TT. Two of my posts have been deleted.

 

[Cheetah]

Was the video that was posted a few pages ago actually a video of Kiteboard?

 

[FrisbeeFool]

The grip your using is really extreme, and the take back is awkward. If someone wants to see a good backhand, there are plenty of videos of wawrinka, almagro, robredo, henin etc. on YouTube. Kiteboard critiquing
Federers backhand is analogous to someone who has taken a junior college water color class Critiquing Vermeer.

 

[Limpinhitter]

Was the video that was posted a few pages ago actually a video of Kiteboard?

Apparently so.

 

[Cheetah]

no offense but when i saw that video i thought someone posted it as a joke.

I love Yandell's site and it's worth the money to me so i'm not commenting on that issue.

but why would anyone want to learn that backhand? I'm sure the slow motion also makes it look better too. In person it's probably quite unattractive. Not to mention the grip is too extreme which means exploitable weakness. His off hand usage in the takeback is kind of weird. It's not serving any purpose at all. It's just kind of passively laying there too low on the frame on the lower part of the throat without offering any support or guidance throughout the stroke. The finish is ... idk.... yuck. I guess that's because of the of grip but..
yuck. I only glanced at the vid because i thought it was troll vid but if it were still up i'm sure i could pick it apart more.

It's obvious the guys plays a lot of tennis so I'm not sure why someone wouldn't at some point in their playing career say 'hey, i'm finally going to dedicate a few weeks to fix my bh and develop a more conventional stroke'.

 

[LeeD]

Don't think an "unconventional" stroke is necessarily a weakness. KBoard hits an extremely hard, spinny, AND consistent topspin backhand. A "conventional" grip would not change it.
I happen to know another 6'1" 190 lbs.er who hits a western forehand for every shot forehand side, flips the racket over to hit his backhand, uses conti gripped serves, and is the best doubles player at our RoseGarden courts, easily hanging with real 4.5's and 5.0's given a decent partner who doesn't feed the netman. This guy VOLLEYS with a western forehand grip, and it fully works even on low half volleys or hard body shots. His backhand volley is one of the best, the backside of his forehand volley face.
What works is what YOU can make work. Obviously, it's not necessarily for everyone, but it works for them.
Remember, FrewMcMillian, GeneMayer, and JimmyConnors used TWO handed backhand volleys at a OK level of play.
Barasetchi used a SW backhand topspin grip.

 

[Limpinhitter]

no offense but when i saw that video i thought someone posted it as a joke.

I love Yandell's site and it's worth the money to me so i'm not commenting on that issue.

but why would anyone want to learn that backhand? I'm sure the slow motion also makes it look better too. In person it's probably quite unattractive. Not to mention the grip is too extreme which means exploitable weakness. His off hand usage in the takeback is kind of weird. It's not serving any purpose at all. It's just kind of passively laying there too low on the frame on the lower part of the throat without offering any support or guidance throughout the stroke. The finish is ... idk.... yuck. I guess that's because of the of grip but..
yuck. I only glanced at the vid because i thought it was troll vid but if it were still up i'm sure i could pick it apart more.

It's obvious the guys plays a lot of tennis so I'm not sure why someone wouldn't at some point in their playing career say 'hey, i'm finally going to dedicate a few weeks to fix my bh and develop a more conventional stroke'.

At first, I thought he was going to hit a slice with an Eastern forehand grip. Instead he hit a topspin frying pan stroke from the elbow with an Eastern forehand grip flipped over. I don't think he can hit a ball below waist height over the net with that stroke.

 

[Cheetah]

i don't think he can hit low balls either. yes i can it works for him but w/ an extreme grip you're giving up something. especially on the bh.

 

[LeeD]

Not really.
Craig (the other guy I mentioned) and KBoard hit great hard low underspin backhand groundstrokes, taken early.
Kiteboard happens to volley with more conventional conti grip, but hits a mean backhand overhead with his W grip. Craig, the other guy, also hits a really big backhand overhead smash, with the W grip.
Both have exceptional volleys, whatever grip.
Well, exceptional to me, a slow footed 4.0 player (now, not always) who has played real matches with 6.0's.

 

[Cheetah]

kiteboard can hit a hard topspin w/ that grip on low balls?

 

[JohnYandell]

Yeah honestly I didn't know Geoff was gonna do it and I don't think this thread has enhanced our marketing--to say the least.
If he writes another article for us, we'll have a discussion about how to let people on TW know about it.

SF:

God yes you are correct about mobile. Steve Jobs basically turned his back on everyone who had been builidng Quick Time libraries...

That said we have been working on it and will have a totally iphone and ipad compatible site. With 65,000 video clips and 10,000 flash animations to convert, I just can't say when.

 

[LeeD]

Who said anyone can hit hard topspin off low balls?
Very few players CAN, and most add sidespin to it since they can't get UNDER a shoetop height incoming ball.
I add inside sidespin slice against low balls, choosing not to hit outside topspin, which takes it's toll on my legs.

 

[BenP]

Yeah honestly I didn't know Geoff was gonna do it and I don't think this thread has enhanced our marketing--to say the least.
If he writes another article for us, we'll have a discussion about how to let people on TW know about it.

SF:

God yes you are correct about mobile. Steve Jobs basically turned his back on everyone who had been builidng Quick Time libraries...

That said we have been working on it and will have a totally iphone and ipad compatible site. With 65,000 video clips and 10,000 flash animations to convert, I just can't say when.

John, I am a member of tenniplayer.net and love your work and what you do. I read the article and was not impressed with the backhand at all. Is the video deceptive? It did not look like a technically sound backhand at all, but watching it in person in real time is a whole different story. It looks like he doesn't hit through the ball at all and slaps across it, doesn't keep the non dominant hand on the throat. Don't get me wrong, the article has some great points about the one hander, but I don't see it in the video demonstration at all.

I am actually struggling with my one hander as well, maybe I should upload a video and see the differences as well. How can I submit a video to tennisplayer?

 

[kiteboard]

Enough said on it. I won't do this again, as it has been a negative for the site. My only intention was to improve /help, but it back fired.

 

[TeflonTom]

Enough said on it. I won't do this again, as it has been a negative for the site. My only intention was to improve /help, but it back fired.

dood dont be disheartened. just maybe next time, dont talk urself up so much.

when u brag about how hard u crush balls and then lecture everyone on how federer's bh is bad then ppl are expecting somethin super special when they click on ur link. esp if they have 2 pay

if u had said somethin like 'hey heres my bh, if u subscribe to old man yandall's site then u can check it out, i know it aint perfect but im kinda proud of it" then u prolly would have got a much better response

u have a decent bh but the way u sold it makes ppl feel all sizzle no steak, ya feel?

 

[Cheetah]

Who said anyone can hit hard topspin off low balls?
Very few players CAN, and most add sidespin to it since they can't get UNDER a shoetop height incoming ball.
I add inside sidespin slice against low balls, choosing not to hit outside topspin, which takes it's toll on my legs.

sigh... always the same.
i didn't say anyone said that. i was simply asking.

 

[toly]

Enough said on it. I won't do this again, as it has been a negative for the site. My only intention was to improve /help, but it back fired.

I think you demonstrate one of the most efficient 1HB possible, especially for low balls. Thanks.
Did somebody delete video? It’s a very pity.:shock:

 

[mikeler]

John, I am a member of tenniplayer.net and love your work and what you do. I read the article and was not impressed with the backhand at all. Is the video deceptive? It did not look like a technically sound backhand at all, but watching it in person in real time is a whole different story. It looks like he doesn't hit through the ball at all and slaps across it, doesn't keep the non dominant hand on the throat. Don't get me wrong, the article has some great points about the one hander, but I don't see it in the video demonstration at all.

I am actually struggling with my one hander as well, maybe I should upload a video and see the differences as well. How can I submit a video to tennisplayer?

This "slap shot" backhand that you may have seen is not the everyday 1 hander you are going to hit most of the time. Just put a video up on YouTube and then LeeD will dissect it to pieces.

 

[FrisbeeFool]

Anybody have recommendations for tennis websites or instructional
Videos? How does tennisplayer.net compare to tennisone and the other sites. I saw a video on YouTube with Dave Smith explaining the kick serve, and it was the clearest explanation of the kick serve I've seen. The video was submitted by tennis one. I think John Yandell has good advice too. I liked his interview in the new York times about the modern forehand. Any members here that can give reviews? What are the good sites for online instruction?

 

[onehandbh]

That said we have been working on it and will have a totally iphone and ipad compatible site. With 65,000 video clips and 10,000 flash animations to convert, I just can't say when.

John, you can batch convert it. (all or a lot at once) Try using
mpegstreamclip.

 

[LeeD]

Actually, I often pass on any comments about groundstrokes.
But since only I have seen and hit with Kiteboard, I thought I'd share my gem of a dissection.
It'd really work if he wasn't injured, overweight, and what's gotta be 50.
Mine is closer to McEnroe's, in form, not in function.

 

[vil]

Enough said on it. I won't do this again, as it has been a negative for the site. My only intention was to improve /help, but it back fired.

I still like your backhand theories. It has some very good points. All I can say, keep up the good work Kite.

 

[Off The Wall]

Enough said on it. I won't do this again, as it has been a negative for the site. My only intention was to improve /help, but it back fired.

Too bad.

I, for one, would be interested in weaponizing my 1hbh. Or at least making it less of a liability. I don't care that I may not want to teach someone else your bh. The point being, I may be able to pull out a kernel of info that would be useful to me.

 

[guitarplayer]

Too bad.

I, for one, would be interested in weaponizing my 1hbh. Or at least making it less of a liability. I don't care that I may not want to teach someone else your bh. The point being, I may be able to pull out a kernel of info that would be useful to me.

There are millions of Federer YouTube's, many in slow motion of his backhand. Watch those!

 

[arche3]

Kite board. Will you post the video here? Don't include the methods if jy objects because its in his site. I just want to see it.

 

[Off The Wall]

There are millions of Federer YouTube's, many in slow motion of his backhand. Watch those!

I've gleaned from Fed all I'm going to. My bh is still not good enough.

Strokes change and evolve. As JY said in another thread, he learns more from the pros than they do from him. Meaning, players go out and try new things based on new materials, or just to find a better way. Some past changes have been eastern grips to western, classical swings to double bends, closed stances to open, etc.

There is probably someone out there trying something new right now. If that person becomes #1 in the world. People like JY and teaching pros will study those strokes and use them as a goals.

So, if KB has something to offer, I'm going to take an independent look at it. If it's something I can use, I will. If I can't, maybe someone else can. If KB is the only one who can make it work, well, good for him and thanks sharing.

 

[DeShaun]

Kite board. Will you post the video here? Don't include the methods if jy objects because its in his site. I just want to see it.

Good luck man, this whole thread is just him advertising, being a carnival barker.

I'd like to see his material. I very much enjoy kiteboard's insights and his writing style is enthusiastic and engaging, but this entire thread has been a bait-n-switch flop with nothing to offer, IMO. I actually think differently of kiteboard now because of it, which is sad.

It needles me to hear him claiming such a majestic backhand that he won't reveal on video nor discuss with words the mechanical fundamentals that he focuses on when hitting it.

---This is just an annoyance---
"I have got a real surprise in my hand here for you! You are sure to want it. Come here, won't you? That way, I can tell you more about it. It is some thing that, I think, you will want. . .Ah, so good of you to come. Whoa there, hands off! You cannot touch nor inspect your surprise yet; but it is for sale. . let me show you where you can go to buy it."

 

[guitarplayer]

QUOTE=DeShaun;6678839]Good luck man, this whole thread is just him advertising, being a carnival barker.

Yup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[vil]

I agree with the disappointment but the theory is sound and you can take a lot of good things out of it. My opinion is, if you try to model somebody's strokes, you will still never look like that person. Everybody has different attributes. I think, once you achieve technically sound motion, then just keep developing it.

 

[JohnYandell]

Ben P,

In the Your Strokes section, it's explained. But if you have a link you can send that. I need a video I can advance frame by frame. So if you have QT all the better. If not maybe we can convert it.

John Yandell jyandell@tennisplayer.net

 

[Pet]

Is this a jumpulse shot?

 

[arche3]

someone post the video already! I really need to see it.

 

[Bobby Jr]

I basically said the same thing and my post was deleted. Unbelievable.

I watched the capture someone posted and wasn't sure whether it was a joke or not... Since it and the comments on it have been removed I assume it was of the actual backhand.

If this is the case then my scepticism had some merit. I have a better backhand than that. Of course I'm not asking you to pay to see it, nor even have a video to prove it (I'll get to it one day) so I don't realistically expect anyone to believe me... Just trust me ok, it's awesome.