Why Andy Murray failed to become an ATG

[RS]

 

[RS]

Andy Murray wins 4-0.

You were at your peak.

 

[hoodjem]

Because he could not win enough Slams ? Murray had very solid defensive game that made him very consistent against lower field. But against in form Big 3 you need to have upper gears - just putting ball in play never works. That's why Stan won 3 out 3 finals while Murray took 11 finals to make it 3 titles. Peak level matters - there is no alternative to it. Murray for his credit never lost hope despite repeated losses. He kept coming back till he finally found mediocre Djokovic or Raonic in final. Any other player would have lost the hope and long given up. But Murray always overrated himself in his mind - he regarded himself as a player who belongs to league of other three. Although it's false belief it helped him to win Slam eventually.

More aggressive, offensive players tend to win.

 

[RS]

Andy Murray AO 2012 vs Younes El Ayaoui AO 2003?

Murray on AO 12 considered clay. RA is super close but let's go Murray in 5 tough sets.

 

[RS]

Time travel matches.

1. Federer AO 17 final 5 vs Dimitrov AO 17 SF
2. Roddick AO 04 vs Agassi AO 04 5
3. Federer RG 09 final vs Nadal RG 18 final in 5
4. Roddick Wim 09 final vs Djokovic Wim 18 final in 5
5. Ancic Wim 06 vs Nadal Wim 06 in 4
6. Kuerten RG 00 final vs Wawrinka RG 15 final in 5
7. Agassi USO 04 vs Djokovic USO 11 in 5
8. Federer USO 08 final vs Nadal USO 10 final in 5
9. Hewitt Wim 09 vs Nadal Wim 19 in 5
10. Federer Wim 04 final in 5 vs Nadal Wim 08 final

 

[RS]

To be fair Murray would have been an ATG if he didn’t get injured in 2013

4-6 slams is a possibility. Depending on how much you think it was a factor.

 

[RS]

Time travel matchups to help this thread get closer to 2000 comments - put the winner in the comments or in bolded.

1. Safin USO 2000 final vs Nadal USO 2010 final
2. Federer USO 2007 final vs Murray USO 2012 final
3. Kuerten RG 2001 final vs Federer RG 2009 final
4. Roddick AO 2005 vs Federer AO 2012
5. Murray Wim 2013 final vs Djokovic Wim 2014 final
6. Agassi USO 2004 QF vs Roddick USO 2007 QF
7. Hewitt Wim 2004 vs Federer Wim 2017

 

[GhostOfNKDM]

What more is there to say on this subject?

This thread is the TTW equivalent of a cardboard box to cats. Can't help posting in it.

 

[dapchai]

Sir Andrew Barron Murray OBE OLY is surely an ATG - All Time Glaswegian.

 

[RS]

Best match Roddick played in his career

 

[RS]

I still come back here once every 4-6 weeks

 

[Sudacafan]

I still come back here once every 4-6 weeks

Something new worth discussing?

 

[alexio]

fuu*ck

 

[RS]

Something new worth discussing?

Just the old tradition.

 

[RS]

Brazil 1998

Spain 2010

 

[Sudacafan]

Spain 2010

Brazil @ Brazil 2014.

 

[RS]

Brazil @ Brazil 2014.

1-0
1-7

 

[Milanez82]

Answer is simple. He never was an ATG player.

 

[RS]

1 more slam would have done it is still my verdict.

 

[juanparty]

people here sayed Hewitt is an ATG, Lol

 

[Fiero425]

people here sayed Hewitt is an ATG, Lol

He got the most out of his talent! He wasn't powerful or crafty! It was all about hustle & retrieving IMO! It was a great accomplishment to win 2 majors & be #1 even for short time! He got all he could out of his abilities unlike Murray who could have done more and underachieved even though the Big 3 thwarted him his entire career!

 

[RS]

people here sayed Hewitt is an ATG, Lol

Not regularly.....

 

[Sudacafan]

1 more slam would have done it is still my verdict.

If we agree to call Vilas an ATG, I don’t have any problems in calling Murray so.

 

[Fiero425]

If we agree to call Vilas an ATG, I don’t have any problems in calling Murray so.

Murray has 3 majors, but Vilas not only has 4, he went on a winning streak of over 50 matches on clay & YEC on grass! Murray consistency was nowhere near that good!

 

[RS]

If we agree to call Vilas an ATG, I don’t have any problems in calling Murray so.

Depends on your bar I guess.

I see Murray as boderline.

 

[Mainad]

Murray has 3 majors, but Vilas not only has 4, he went on a winning streak of over 50 matches on clay & YEC on grass! Murray consistency was nowhere near that good!

Vilas only beat 1 ATG though (Connors at USO), Murray beat 2 (Djokovic at USO and Wimbledon).

 

[alexio]

Vilas only beat 1 ATG though (Connors at USO), Murray beat 2 (Djokovic at USO and Wimbledon).

how many times vilas lost to atg in finals?

 

[RS]

Vilas vs Murray.

Let's go.

 

[RS]

Vilas 7.5-2.5 on clay though

 

[Fiero425]

how many times vilas lost to atg in finals?

That's why it was hard to proclaim him #1 in '77 even with 2 majors won; the USO over Connors! He still had a losing record against the Big 2; Connors & Borg!

 

[llgtennislegend]

A meaningful debate.

 

[thrust]

Sir Andrew Barron Murray OBE OLY is surely an ATG - All Time Glaswegian.

Murray was a great player, not quite an ATG player: Vilas was probably an ATG player on clay, a very good player off clay.

 

[RS]

Every couple months I have to come back to this.

 

[ImmorTAL Big 3]

In my opinion if Andy have retired in 2019 more people would have considered him ATG/not me but still/.Now he would mostly be remembered with his Wild cards abuse which is sad because he have great career prior to 2017 with 2016 peak.Of course everything is changeable and if he for exemple win another Wimbledon i would acknowledge him as ATG.

 

[RS]

In my opinion if Andy have retired in 2019 more people would have considered him ATG/not me but still/.Now he would mostly be remembered with his Wild cards abuse which is sad because he have great career prior to 2017 with 2016 peak.Of course everything is changeable and if he for exemple win another Wimbledon i would acknowledge him as ATG.

Interesting. I would have said the 6 slam ATG bar which was around 4 years ago has been lowered nowdays.

 

[ImmorTAL Big 3]

Interesting. I would have said the 6 slam ATG bar which was around 4 years ago has been lowered nowdays.

Normally i would ve agree with 6 GS bar.However considering all of Murray career pre 2017 and all the operations after that if he win another GS it would be monumental achievement deserving ATG status.Still it would be exception given all the sircumstances not a rule.

 

[RS]

Normally i would ve agree with 6 GS bar.However considering all of Murray career pre 2017 and all the operations after that if he win another GS it would be monumental achievement deserving ATG status.Still it would be exception given all the sircumstances not a rule.

Murray and Courier were sometimes the expectations even then sometimes even more so maybe Murray.

 

[CoolCoolCool]

Every couple months I have to come back to this.

MurryGOAT USO 12 vs Stanimal 13 USO 10 match series, who wins ?

 

[RS]

MurryGOAT USO 12 vs Stanimal 13 USO 10 match series, who wins ?

If you want 4000 posts you may want to carry these on

6-4 Murray maybe. I am bad at these only good at asking

 

[CoolCoolCool]

If you want 4000 posts you may want to carry these on

6-4 Murray maybe. I am bad at these only good at asking

What do you mean ?

Btw, I like to joke about the 10 match series thing but I'm not mocking you or anything. Don't get offended. Plus I do think this kind of questions are generally interesting.

 

[RS]

What do you mean ?

Btw, I like to joke about the 10 match series thing but I'm not mocking you or anything. Don't get offended. Plus I do think this kind of questions are generally interesting.

I was joking too you missed it

 

[RS]

MurryGOAT USO 12 vs Stanimal 13 USO 10 match series, who wins ?

Murray vs Stan is pretty interesting matchup. Decent clash of styles.

 

[CoolCoolCool]

Murray vs Stan is pretty interesting matchup. Decent clash of styles.

Yeah and the outcome of their matches was never predictable, it could often go either way.

6-4 Murray is a good guess, I think. Now if it was at AO, I would say 6-4 Stanimal.

 

[Holmes]

This thread is hilarious, Fed fans and PETE fans putting down Agassi slander/Murray hype but then also turning on each other the minute it gets back to Fed. I am playing both sides.

When did you go from clever double-agent to Fed Kool-Aid vendor?

 

[RS]

Yeah and the outcome of their matches was never predictable, it could often go either way.

6-4 Murray is a good guess, I think. Now if it was at AO, I would say 6-4 Stanimal.

I probably agree there as well. 6-4 Stan at RG and 9-1 Murray at Wimbledon may be what I go with for the other 2.

 

[CoolCoolCool]

I probably agree there as well. 6-4 Stan at RG and 9-1 Murray at Wimbledon may be what I go with for the other 2.

9-1 Murray at Wimbledon seems about right but I'd say 7-3 Stan at RG if we talk about his best version.

 

[RS]

9-1 Murray at Wimbledon seems about right but I'd say 7-3 Stan at RG if we talk about his best version.

I was thinking maybe between 6-4 and 7-3. Murray impressed me in the RG 16 SF a lot though which is what made me think 6-4 but RG 2015 Wawrinka may be to tough to go against and he hit through Djokovic were as Murray lost in the same year.

 

[NatF]

I was thinking maybe between 6-4 and 7-3. Murray impressed me in the RG 16 SF a lot though which is what made me think 6-4 but RG 2015 Wawrinka may be to tough to go against and he hit through Djokovic were as Murray lost in the same year.

Murray played one good match that tournament lol. Went five twice in early rounds and got smashed by Djokovic once he woke up. He gets too much credit imo.

 

[RS]

Murray played one good match that tournament lol. Went five twice in early rounds and got smashed by Djokovic once he woke up. He gets too much credit imo.

Not his best tournament but the SF match was against Stan who wasn't at all bad even if not considered as good as 2015 so that's something. Didn't know Murray in RG 16 F was ever praised heavily by anyone but a few Djokovic fans. lol

 

[thrust]

Yeah and the outcome of their matches was never predictable, it could often go either way.

6-4 Murray is a good guess, I think. Now if it was at AO, I would say 6-4 Stanimal.

Murray, 7-3