Worst ATP finals in history?

[Aussie Darcy]

Is this the worst ATP finals/Year end championship?

Of the 9 players who've played (the 8 who qualified plus alternate PCB), only 3 were slam champions or had made a slam final.
3 of the 9 players have never made a slam SF, 2 of those have never even made a slam QF.

Zverev, Dimitrov, Sock and Carreno Busta are all playing for the first time + Goffin who qualified for the tournament for the first time but played last year once as an alternate.

Jack Sock was on a 5 match losing streak going into October this year.
Carreno Busta had lost 5 of his last matches going into the ATP Finals and has a W/L against top 10 players of 1-18 and yet is playing in a competition made up of only top 10 players.

Thiem, Sock, Cilic and Carreno Busta all have a NEGATIVE record vs top 50 players on hard courts this season.

The 2nd seed Federer missed half the Masters and played half the tournaments that Zverev, Thiem, Dimitrov and Goffin played yet has more than double the points of any of them.

 

[chjtennis]

I don't think this is the worst, but it just doesn't look to be as strong without 3 of the big 4. It's just hard to replace those guys.

 

[Federer and Del Potro]

The PCB Thiem match was actually a pretty nice match to watch. Lets see how the semis and finals play out before appraising an entire tournament. There's potential for good SF fixtures.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

I don't think this is the worst, but it just doesn't look to be as strong without 3 of the big 4. It's just hard to replace those guys.

Definitely lacking some of the big 4 but other players like DelPo couldn't quite get there and we got left with Carreno Busta!?!?!?

 

[Aussie Darcy]

The PCB Thiem match was actually a pretty nice match to watch. Lets see how the semis and finals play out before appraising an entire tournament. There's potential for good SF fixtures.

Possibly but cant help but think that at the start of the year I would've scoffed if you said one of: Dimitrov, Zverev or Sock would be in the WTF Finals. Especially when the latter two haven't even made a slam QF! At least all 3 have a Masters title now though..

 

[chjtennis]

Definitely lacking some of the big 4 but other players like DelPo couldn't quite get there and we got left with Carreno Busta!?!?!?

I hear you, but if you look at the events from the past, there were times when the field was just as weak as this year, with numerous substituted players. Let's also not underestimate PCB. The guy can be a problem on HC on his best days.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Don't know about the worst in history but it's certainly the weakest edition of the last ten years.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

I hear you, but if you look at the events from the past, there were times when the field was just as weak as this year, with numerous substituted players. Let's also not underestimate PCB. The guy can be a problem on HC on his best days.

He doesn't have a single top 10 win on hard court! And just one on any other court, he's not a threat. There's been times when it's been weak but never weak all around.

 

[ollinger]

Prefer to review the movie when it's over

 

[chjtennis]

He doesn't have a single top 10 win on hard court! And just one on any other court, he's not a threat. There's been times when it's been weak but never weak all around.

He certainly was a big threat to Thiem today.

 

[Djokovic2011]

He certainly was a big threat to Thiem today.

Most players are a threat to Thiem on hard courts.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

He certainly was a big threat to Thiem today.

My grandmother could be a threat to Thiem on hard courts.

 

[chjtennis]

Most players are a threat to Thiem on hard courts.

You mean most top 30 players, right?

He needs to improve and be a better HC player, but he still is not too bad.

 

[Federer and Del Potro]

I still think Zverev is capable of giving us an explosive final if it's against Federer. Especially in Bo3.

Dimitrov too maybe but it's impossible to trust the guy. I don't care how good his form is. It's been immaculate looking before entering Federer matches and he's disappeared.

But honestly a Federer-Thiem Zverev-Dimitrov SF set would be pretty good.

Nadal was never likely to look good here anyways.

I could totally see Jack Sock playing spoiler though. If Sock/Goffin were the other two to advance, it'd basically become pretty horrid, especially if you assume Dimi gonna disappear vs Fred as he always has. Sock/Goffin can't do anything to bother Fed really.

 

[every7]

It's lacking star power, and the field is a bit thin, but in terms of match quality it's nowhere near the worst so far.

Some interesting matches have already happened so far and we could get some fireworks once we are past the RR stage

 

[chjtennis]

My grandmother could be a threat to Thiem on hard courts.

Thiem still reached QFs of Cincy and IW, R16 of AO, Wimby and USO, and QFs of Rotterdam and Acapulco. Hardly something any grandmas can do.

I share your frustration, I believe Thiem should be doing better on non-clay events, but he still is able to beat most others who are outside top 30 on any surfaces. He's beaten solid players on HC like Zverev brothers, Simon, Mannarino and Paire this year. When he lost to top 10-20 type players, he pushed them very close. He just needs to make the next big step to really becaome a true contender and I think that will come soon.

 

[Steve0904]

The matches themselves have been somewhere between passable and good overall. Actually better so far than a few of the recent years gone by like 2014 for example. But I do understand the sentiment and I think I know what the major problem is.

The problem being that there's a gaping chasm between Federer and the field (we're talking Grand Canyon wide). Even in previous years we were always awaiting a big showdown between Djokovic-Nadal or Djokovic-Federer or Federer-Murray and even if those matches were a letdown (which basically all of them were) we could at least get excited about them beforehand. But now there's not a lot to look forward to in that regard.

Ok, new faces, but who's even going to challenge Federer, let alone beat him, realistically. Federer-Zverev is the best final I see right now, but that doesn't inspire like Federer-Nadal or Federer-Djokovic for example. Mostly because Zverev is not quite at the level required yet. He's close, and he might even beat Federer in the knockout rounds, but I wouldn't bet on it.

There's also the fact that most of them aren't particularly good on HC and some wouldn't even be here if Novak, Murray, and Stan were even 70% healthy. Not to mention, Raonic and Nishikori so it's a weak lineup for sure.

The main problem in my eyes is still that nobody can see past a Federer win here though. Stranger things have happened, but you'd be stupid to deny he's a huge favourite.

 

[SafinSucks]

Is this the worst ATP finals/Year end championship?

Of the 9 players who've played (the 8 who qualified plus alternate PCB), only 3 were slam champions or had made a slam final.
3 of the 9 players have never made a slam SF, 2 of those have never even made a slam QF.

Zverev, Dimitrov, Sock and Carreno Busta are all playing for the first time + Goffin who qualified for the tournament for the first time but played last year once as an alternate.

Jack Sock was on a 5 match losing streak going into October this year.
Carreno Busta had lost 5 of his last matches going into the ATP Finals and has a W/L against top 10 players of 1-18 and yet is playing in a competition made up of only top 10 players.

Thiem, Sock, Cilic and Carreno Busta all have a NEGATIVE record vs top 50 players on hard courts this season.

The 2nd seed Federer missed half the Masters and played half the tournaments that Zverev, Thiem, Dimitrov and Goffin played yet has more than double the points of any of them.

Hi @Aussie Darcy
So far it is far better than 2014 edition, and it will be very likely much better than 2014 since we are due for an actual final this year.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Not a chance.

Plenty of new blood, and an in-form, established champion in Federer.

 

[Steve0904]

Not a chance.

Plenty of new blood, and an in-form, established champion in Federer.

I'd put it near the bottom though tbh. "New blood" is just a buzz term until they actually come through. There's no denying this is a weak sauce lineup aside from Federer (especially now that Nadal is out and was replaced by PCB and not, say Delpo which would've been much better).

 

[Backspin1183]

Don't know about the worst in history but it's certainly the weakest edition of the last ten years.

This. It's the weakest in years but the matches are still nowhere as boring as was in 2014.

 

[Deon Sanders]

Don't know about the worst in history but it's certainly the weakest edition of the last ten years.

For sure

Its the one year that on paper 5 years ago looking at the draw without seeds you say... this is the one Nadal gets. This is finally his time.

Kudos to Federer for somehow effing coming through and outlasting people 5 years his junior.

Last year we are talking another Djoker Murray final this year and now this

 

[Djokovic2011]

This. It's the weakest in years but the matches are still nowhere as boring as was in 2014.

Didn't you at least enjoy the semifinals, James?

 

[r2473]

It was the worst on Monday morning, but got much better by Monday evening.

 

[NoleFam]

Worst in history would be a little harsh and I'm sure there probably are a couple that are weaker. I agree with some other posters though that this is probably the weakest crop of players in the last 10 years.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Added worst in the last 10 years since that seems to be a common agreement.

 

[Deon Sanders]

Added worst in the last 10 years since that seems to be a common agreement.

Got my change of vote

The obvious last worse one is the 2005 masters cup/what is now the World Tour Finals

Half the draw withdrew from the event and 12 ranked Nalbandian went crazy to win it all

 

[Tennisanity]

Nothing wrong with this WTF. The semi finals will have the 4 best players in the world. Can't go wrong with that.

 

[ghostofMecir]

Is this the worst ATP finals/Year end championship?

Of the 9 players who've played (the 8 who qualified plus alternate PCB), only 3 were slam champions or had made a slam final.
3 of the 9 players have never made a slam SF, 2 of those have never even made a slam QF.

Zverev, Dimitrov, Sock and Carreno Busta are all playing for the first time + Goffin who qualified for the tournament for the first time but played last year once as an alternate.

Jack Sock was on a 5 match losing streak going into October this year.
Carreno Busta had lost 5 of his last matches going into the ATP Finals and has a W/L against top 10 players of 1-18 and yet is playing in a competition made up of only top 10 players.

Thiem, Sock, Cilic and Carreno Busta all have a NEGATIVE record vs top 50 players on hard courts this season.

The 2nd seed Federer missed half the Masters and played half the tournaments that Zverev, Thiem, Dimitrov and Goffin played yet has more than double the points of any of them.

75% of this poster’s posts are about how awful the ATP Tour is while how interesting the WTA Tour is.

As lackluster as this ATP Finals are, they’re still better than anything on the WTA Tour.

 

[Backspin1183]

Didn't you at least enjoy the semifinals, James?

I remember all matches being very one sided apart from the Stan vs Fed & Mirka match.
Then, the other guy didn't show up for the final and Andy Murray had to play a match with Novak to entertain the crowd.

 

[metsman]

on paper sure but the matches so far have been better than years like 2014 for sure.

 

[User123]

Until now worst was 2014, and it's not even close.

 

[TennisHound]

Whether we like it or not, this how it will look over the next year. Get used to it.

By this time next year, Fed will probably retire, Rafa will be close, as will Wawrinka. Djokovic Murray Nishikori will be a long ways from ever being where they once were, if they even return.

 

[Thundergod]

Could be worse, certainly not the clown show I thought it was going to be(so far).

Also, an interesting thing I just noticed: even though the 2014 WTF itself sucked, the 8th place guy coming into the tourney(Raonic at 4440 pts) had more points than Zverev this year, who was ranked 3rd at 4410 points. The qualifying standards were crazy that year compared to this year.

 

[cc0509]

I would say it's not a great WTF. Although I'm a Federer fan, I've only watched part of one WTF match thus far--Federer vs Zverev. I don't plan on watching Federer vs Cilic. I'll try and watch Fed in the SF and if he makes the final.

 

[Mainad]

Didn't you at least enjoy the semifinals, James?

Certainly enjoyed them more than the final!

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Is this the worst ATP finals/Year end championship?

Of the 9 players who've played (the 8 who qualified plus alternate PCB), only 3 were slam champions or had made a slam final.
3 of the 9 players have never made a slam SF, 2 of those have never even made a slam QF.

Zverev, Dimitrov, Sock and Carreno Busta are all playing for the first time + Goffin who qualified for the tournament for the first time but played last year once as an alternate.

Jack Sock was on a 5 match losing streak going into October this year.
Carreno Busta had lost 5 of his last matches going into the ATP Finals and has a W/L against top 10 players of 1-18 and yet is playing in a competition made up of only top 10 players.

Thiem, Sock, Cilic and Carreno Busta all have a NEGATIVE record vs top 50 players on hard courts this season.

The 2nd seed Federer missed half the Masters and played half the tournaments that Zverev, Thiem, Dimitrov and Goffin played yet has more than double the points of any of them.

While all of what you said may apply on paper, both Zverev and Sock are playing well. Zverev took Fed to 3. In 2011 only Tsonga was pushing Fed and with Djokovic's no show the event lost excitement that year. 2012, 13 and 15 were the best in recent years.

 

[Bartelby]

We want new players to step up and then criticise them when they do.

 

[Mainad]

While all of what you said may apply on paper, both Zverev and Sock are playing well. Zverev took Fed to 3. In 2011 only Tsonga was pushing Fed and with Djokovic's no show the event lost excitement that year. 2012, 13 and 15 were the best in recent years.

I have a soft spot for 2016. There was certainly more riding on that final than most!

 

[BGod]

Carretja won once over Carlos Moya. Which was 98. Rios & Agassi withdrew for Rusedski & Costa with that group boasting Henman & Corretja.

The other group was Sampras, Moya, Kafelnikov and Karol Kucera.

Sampras and Kafelnikov were the only multiple Slam winners although not Kafelnikov at the time. Costa would win in 02 while Moya was that year's French champ. Kucera & Henman never made a Slam Final and Corretja, Rios and Rusedski made 1 run.

Hindsight is 20/20.

But right now I think Fedorov, Cilic, Zverev and Dimitrov made it interesting given Zverev emergence on Bo3.

If Zverev wins a bunch of Slams, Thiem takes over after Nadal and Dimitrov vultures. You could end up having 5/8 Slam winners and Goffin, Sock, Busta may vulture deep runs themselves.

All that said the worst ATP Final for my money was 1976.

Orantes beat Fibak in the Final after getting through Solomon and Vilas in Bo5 semifinals. The 4 group losers were Ramirez, Gottfried, Dibbs and Tanner.

Not sure the story about 76 considering Borg, Nastase and Ashe played 75 but there you go.

 

[True Fanerer]

A Federer/Zverev final would be a good way to cap off the year I believe. Its the best we are gonna get with everyone out with injury. Its going to be this way one day anyhow. This is a sample taste of the years ahead.

 

[Technology Ruined Tennis]

2014's best match was Stan/Mirka.

 

[kOaMaster]

Don't know what your problem is, we saw some quite nice matches with Federer-Zverev, Sock-Cilic or yesterday Thiem-PCB.

Far worse was the 2014 finals - very lopsided matches, walk over instead of final, no surprises. The only interesting and exciting match was Federer - Wawrinka but that wasn't exactly of great quality but more great fighting.
And the highlight looking back was Federer being nice enough to leave Murray a game at the end of the 2nd set to prevent him from the epic humilitation of a double bagel.

 

[Mainad]

2014's best match was Stan/Mirka.

Stil not quite sure who won that one.

 

[Shank Volley]

You mean most top 30 players, right?

He needs to improve and be a better HC player, but he still is not too bad.

He's at least a solid 3.0 outside clay, that's for sure.

 

[Jonas78]

3 out of big4 out. 6 out of the top 10 ranked players at start of season out. All top 5 ranked players at start of season out.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Is this the worst ATP finals/Year end championship?

Of the 9 players who've played (the 8 who qualified plus alternate PCB), only 3 were slam champions or had made a slam final.
3 of the 9 players have never made a slam SF, 2 of those have never even made a slam QF.

Zverev, Dimitrov, Sock and Carreno Busta are all playing for the first time + Goffin who qualified for the tournament for the first time but played last year once as an alternate.

Jack Sock was on a 5 match losing streak going into October this year.
Carreno Busta had lost 5 of his last matches going into the ATP Finals and has a W/L against top 10 players of 1-18 and yet is playing in a competition made up of only top 10 players.

Thiem, Sock, Cilic and Carreno Busta all have a NEGATIVE record vs top 50 players on hard courts this season.

The 2nd seed Federer missed half the Masters and played half the tournaments that Zverev, Thiem, Dimitrov and Goffin played yet has more than double the points of any of them.

Is there a similar thread from you on this year's WTA final?

I would like to see it and your thoughts on that.

You know, just to see what your standard requirements are.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Is there a similar thread from you on this year's WTA final?

I would like to see it and your thoughts on that.

You know, just to see what your standard requirements are.

Nobody on this forum gives a rats ass about women's tennis so i'm not wasting my time thanks. Quit turning everything into women v men's tennis. Bad trolling.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Nobody on this forum gives a rats ass about women's tennis so i'm not wasting my time thanks. Quit turning everything into women v men's tennis. Bad trolling.

Is this some kind of irony from you?

Because if it is you are quite bad at it.

I like how it took me one post to strip your entire argument to bare bones.

OK, let's try something else: what is your criteria for estimating how good the finals are?

List them and why you chose them.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Is this some kind of irony from you?

Because if it is you are quite bad at it.

I like how it took me one post to strip your entire argument to bare bones.

OK, let's try something else: what is your criteria for estimating how good the finals are?

List them and why you chose them.

I have no argument here actually, this has literally nothing to do with the women's tour. I did a thread to gauge opinions, it generated discussion and was interesting to read. Fantastic.

Quit trying to bait, i'm not biting. Bye now.