depressed... need help

S&V-not_dead_yet · Aug 11, 2017

It would make your posts more readable if you used paragraphs.

powlemon said:
my strokes are decently consistent in practice, i make a few errors every once in a while, some of them on just normal shots, some when i'm going for a winner. I think my inconsistency comes from my past style, back in 8th grade, i would pretty much go for a winner that paints the line very early on in a point. Obviously, lots of these shots went out, but i didn't really worry about it. Than coming up to 9th grade tryouts i really realized that i needed to work on my consistency, I improved just by not going for winners all the time, but still during practice, i still find that randomly i will just hit a ball out because i literally put zero spin. or i'll just go down the line flat on an on the run forehand and hit it in the net without thinking. i overthink too much in matches, i play well when i'm up a couple games, but yesterday against the pusher, not only was i having a bad day, but i began to hit easy balls out, than i thought "not enough spin" and i tried to over emphasize spin which meant more balls going out.

It's going to take some time to reprogram yourself out of your past habits. Go easy on yourself: unlearning bad habits is not quick and painless.

Playing without thinking is awesome...if you are good enough and have all of the shots and strategies ingrained. You are not there yet so you will have to think while playing:
- What's the high % shot to play?
- Get the ball in and make him play one more shot.
- Read up on Wardlaw's Directionals

the thing is, i realized i'm more consistent in practice than in matches, not because my form is different, its just that in practice if i hit a ball out it doesn't worry me too much and i keep playing, in a match if i hit the ball out I start to jack up my form trying to keep it in, but when i'm nervous that doesn't work. someone above mentioned that he had a son who had a mantra that basically said it was fine to miss the ball and to lose. I'm trying to adopt that for myself, while i might not get angry that i hit a ball out, it definitely affects me subconciously.

Did you watch the interview with Bob Litwin I posted? Watch it. Several times. Let it sink in and then watch it again.

aside from that footwork is definitely something i need to work on, i used to not move for the ball at all basically, I was that one kid who just didn't move his feet, that was back when i didn't really try as hard as i should have. Now i run for the ball more, but i do realize that my footwork has room for improvement.

Definitely. It's awfully difficult to hit a good shot if you are out of position.

and focus needs work, i'm a pretty shy self-concious guy, especially before, now i'm trying to work on it. when i play tennis i always hate it when a coach watches, feeling like they would judge me, even though i know they don't really care if i lose, and they are trying to help me.

Go on YouTube and search for "tennis mental toughness"; I especially like the ones by Patrick Cohn. You need to be able to block out things like spectating coaches.

fitness is something i also need work on i have pretty good endurance, but i'm not super strong, i don't do weightlifting like a lot of other kids my age, i'm pretty skinny, i weight around 135 and i'm around 6 ft. My school has a gym and i have a set of dumbells at home, so its definitely something i'm going to improve on when i'm not at the courts. Does anyone have reccommendations for some good workouts that could help my game? thanks for the help, I appreciate it

Weight training is great; just make sure you don't injure yourself overdoing it.

However, based on your description, lack of strength is not why you are where you are currently. It seems predominantly mental. Check out some of those resources I mentioned. Also *The Inner Game of Tennis* by Gallwey, *Mental Tennis* by Vic Braden, and *Winning Ugly* by Brad Gilbert might also be good reads.

Have patience. I realize that you want to turn things around immediately but just accept that you didn't make V this year [I assume you will play JV, which means you still can challenge the V team, right?] and now you have a year to improve. Embrace the challenge.

powlemon · Aug 11, 2017

S&V-not_dead_yet said:
It would make your posts more readable if you used paragraphs.

It's going to take some time to reprogram yourself out of your past habits. Go easy on yourself: unlearning bad habits is not quick and painless.

Playing without thinking is awesome...if you are good enough and have all of the shots and strategies ingrained. You are not there yet so you will have to think while playing:
- What's the high % shot to play?
- Get the ball in and make him play one more shot.
- Read up on Wardlaw's Directionals

Did you watch the interview with Bob Litwin I posted? Watch it. Several times. Let it sink in and then watch it again.

Definitely. It's awfully difficult to hit a good shot if you are out of position.

Go on YouTube and search for "tennis mental toughness"; I especially like the ones by Patrick Cohn. You need to be able to block out things like spectating coaches.

Weight training is great; just make sure you don't injure yourself overdoing it.

However, based on your description, lack of strength is not why you are where you are currently. It seems predominantly mental. Check out some of those resources I mentioned. Also *The Inner Game of Tennis* by Gallwey, *Mental Tennis* by Vic Braden, and *Winning Ugly* by Brad Gilbert might also be good reads.

Have patience. I realize that you want to turn things around immediately but just accept that you didn't make V this year [I assume you will play JV, which means you still can challenge the V team, right?] and now you have a year to improve. Embrace the challenge.

yes i really want to turn things around right now, i want another shot at varsity, every single second of the day now i'm thinking about how I missed the varsity cut off, everyone who wanted to get it got in, and the people that were cut don't really care as much. I'm the only one who really wanted to get in, but didn't and it feels so bad, thinking of all the kids celebrating that they got in and that the whole team was going to qdoba for food, and i'm in the parking lot calling my mom that i didn't make it. right now the only thing i can do is read up on some of your resources, and try not to think about how i have to go through a whole school year before i get another chance. Unfortunately at our school JV is JV and varsity is varsity there are no challenges. At best i get called up to substitute for a varsity player that can't attend a match. But thats about it

powlemon · Aug 11, 2017

S&V-not_dead_yet said:
It would make your posts more readable if you used paragraphs.

It's going to take some time to reprogram yourself out of your past habits. Go easy on yourself: unlearning bad habits is not quick and painless.

Playing without thinking is awesome...if you are good enough and have all of the shots and strategies ingrained. You are not there yet so you will have to think while playing:
- What's the high % shot to play?
- Get the ball in and make him play one more shot.
- Read up on Wardlaw's Directionals

Did you watch the interview with Bob Litwin I posted? Watch it. Several times. Let it sink in and then watch it again.

Definitely. It's awfully difficult to hit a good shot if you are out of position.

Go on YouTube and search for "tennis mental toughness"; I especially like the ones by Patrick Cohn. You need to be able to block out things like spectating coaches.

Weight training is great; just make sure you don't injure yourself overdoing it.

However, based on your description, lack of strength is not why you are where you are currently. It seems predominantly mental. Check out some of those resources I mentioned. Also *The Inner Game of Tennis* by Gallwey, *Mental Tennis* by Vic Braden, and *Winning Ugly* by Brad Gilbert might also be good reads.

Have patience. I realize that you want to turn things around immediately but just accept that you didn't make V this year [I assume you will play JV, which means you still can challenge the V team, right?] and now you have a year to improve. Embrace the challenge.

I just watched the bob litwin interview once, and right now i'm thinking really hard about it. Bob Litwin had his own method of dealing with the noises in the head, how he would play out conversations between the judge and the positive noises. i don't think thats my style, but i have learned that the mental aspect is something i need to practicce, I try not to show it on the outside, which might make it even worse because I hold it all in. People have always made comments about how i'm expressionless, win or lose, they say that its good that i don't get too emotional when i lose points. But the truth is I do. Yesterday in tryouts i played a kid, i was winning 3-0 and he ended up beating me 6-4 it was a kid i should have easily beaten, I was just broken down. I play good in practice because it doesn't matter, and i try to tell myself that in a match, i say it doesn't matter, just do your best. But like they mentioned in the video i was lying to myself. I was telling myself that it doesn't matter, and i was telling myself to relax but deep down, i was still scared of losing to someone i should beat, still scared of hitting a normal forehand, and still scared that i would get cut for the 2nd year. I need to find my way to deal with my mental issues during a match. Like Bob said, i'm too worried on the results rather than whats going on, even halfway through the set i start thinking "how could you miss these easy shots" "what if you don't make the team" "what if you lose to this kid, the coaches will think you suck". And i'm not thinking in the moment like i should be. I made a decision today that after the season ends, i will start to play more tournaments and hopefully i will be able to improve myself where i need it the most. i have a question for you, how do deal with losing points in matches? are you negative towards yourself, are you just accepting, how do you quiet that little voice in your head that just gets louder each time you miss a shot

S&V-not_dead_yet · Aug 11, 2017

powlemon said:
i was still scared of losing to someone i should beat, still scared of hitting a normal forehand, and still scared that i would get cut for the 2nd year. I need to find my way to deal with my mental issues during a match. Like Bob said, i'm too worried on the results rather than whats going on, even halfway through the set i start thinking "how could you miss these easy shots" "what if you don't make the team" "what if you lose to this kid, the coaches will think you suck".

Check these out:

how do deal with losing points in matches? are you negative towards yourself, are you just accepting, how do you quiet that little voice in your head that just gets louder each time you miss a shot

I have a tendency towards perfectionism so I have to be especially vigilant against doing than when playing a match because I'm not perfect [Litwin delves into this subject].

I TRY [not always successful] to acknowledge the mistake and then move on to the next point. I try to stay in the moment and not worry about the past [the sitter I just missed] nor the future ["If I lose this game, I'll be down 2-5!"]. It just takes practice. You have to learn how to deal with that little voice; again, I thought Litwin did a fantastic job explaining this. You may not choose his method but at least you understand the concept.

I recently lost in the 1st round of a tournament while on center court with a crowd watching me get dismantled. I knew the crowd was there and I even heard occasional applause when I made a good shot but my opponent was the home town favorite. But I essentially blocked out the crowd and concentrated on the match. I could have wasted precious mental energy worrying about how my losing would be perceived by those watching but in reality, they probably forgot about it the moment the match was over. No one cares about my match so much as I do [and my opponent].

So I went home and noted some things in my tennis journal about what I did well and not so well and what I need to work on. And so the process goes on. Next tournament, I hope to be better prepared.

Most people struggle with these issues at some point or other. You just happened to run into an accumulation of these factors all at once. Now you begin the rebuilding process; take it slowly.

powlemon · Aug 11, 2017

S&V-not_dead_yet said:
I TRY [not always successful] to acknowledge the mistake and then move on to the next point. I try to stay in the moment and not worry about the past [the sitter I just missed] nor the future ["If I lose this game, I'll be down 2-5!"]. It just takes practice. You have to learn how to deal with that little voice; again, I thought Litwin did a fantastic job explaining this. You may not choose his method but at least you understand the concept.

I recently lost in the 1st round of a tournament while on center court with a crowd watching me get dismantled. I knew the crowd was there and I even heard occasional applause when I made a good shot but my opponent was the home town favorite. But I essentially blocked out the crowd and concentrated on the match. I could have wasted precious mental energy worrying about how my losing would be perceived by those watching but in reality, they probably forgot about it the moment the match was over. No one cares about my match so much as I do [and my opponent].

So I went home and noted some things in my tennis journal about what I did well and not so well and what I need to work on. And so the process goes on. Next tournament, I hope to be better prepared.

Most people struggle with these issues at some point or other. You just happened to run into an accumulation of these factors all at once. Now you begin the rebuilding process; take it slowly.

I think part of the reason my mental game is not super good, is also because i am kind of ocd about my strokes. I think i try to be too perfect some times and it hurts me. As a kid i would spend hours at home worrying about things like how to use the lag and snap and how to emulate djokovic strokes, i would spend long times watching his slow mo videos, than proceed to go and use my racquet to shadow swing and emulate his strokes. Even this past year, i find myself trying subconciously emulating the way some kids at my club who are very good play. overall i just overthink my stroke too much, my stroke tends to change form a lot, even just by little changes, and i'm trying to stop that, its almost like a subconcious thing, kinda like how when you hear a friend use a phrase often you start using it more, but in this case i think its affecting my game. I have a ball machine at home, that i plan on using more so that i can really just hone down my strokes and be consistent. Tommorow i think i will go hit with my machine.

S&V-not_dead_yet · Aug 11, 2017

powlemon said:
I think part of the reason my mental game is not super good, is also because i am kind of ocd about my strokes. I think i try to be too perfect some times and it hurts me. As a kid i would spend hours at home worrying about things like how to use the lag and snap and how to emulate djokovic strokes, i would spend long times watching his slow mo videos, than proceed to go and use my racquet to shadow swing and emulate his strokes. Even this past year, i find myself trying subconciously emulating the way some kids at my club who are very good play. overall i just overthink my stroke too much, my stroke tends to change form a lot, even just by little changes, and i'm trying to stop that, its almost like a subconcious thing, kinda like how when you hear a friend use a phrase often you start using it more, but in this case i think its affecting my game. I have a ball machine at home, that i plan on using more so that i can really just hone down my strokes and be consistent. Tommorow i think i will go hit with my machine.

"A man with two watches never knows what time it is."

Changing your stroke to emulate Djokovic or Murray or Nadal or Federer or Wawrinka or other kids at your club is a recipe for disaster because you'll constantly bounce among different styles. Work with your coach and figure out a style and stroke technique that works for you and stick with it.

It's easy to say "stop being OCD" but easier said than done. At least you're aware of your tendencies; that's a critical first step to addressing the problem.

I think your journey of improvement will involve a lot of self-discovery and introspection as the problem is more internal than external. Learn to embrace the challenge and the journey; let the destination take care of itself. You may find you've reached your destination a lot sooner than you had anticipated [the opposite of the "are we there yet?" syndrome] or that your destination has evolved.

Traffic · Aug 11, 2017

So what I haven't heard is if OP plays USTA junior tournaments. There's several every month all year long. You need to play more formal matches in order to toughen up your mental game. You hit well during practice because you are relaxed and can hit out without worrying about a thing. But when you play a match, you play totally differently.

The only way to improve match play is to play matches. Period.

You can read books. You can do drills. You can practice with your ball machine. But when there is an opponent on the other side of the court getting more points than you, you are NOT relaxed. You are intimidated, frustrated, anxious, stiff, scared, etc. And you are NOT playing your game.

Now. If you do read the books, do the drills AND do match play, you will definitely improve.

Harry_Wild · Aug 12, 2017

What type of racquet are playing with? A "modern" type frame? Since you seem to say you over hit in actual match conditions, try either a players type(aka traditional) racquet frame as a "demo" and see if it helps you keep the ball on court. I am surprise the the HS tennis coach did not give you any suggestions to help improve your game before you got cut.

powlemon · Aug 12, 2017

S&V-not_dead_yet said:
"A man with two watches never knows what time it is."

Changing your stroke to emulate Djokovic or Murray or Nadal or Federer or Wawrinka or other kids at your club is a recipe for disaster because you'll constantly bounce among different styles. Work with your coach and figure out a style and stroke technique that works for you and stick with it.

It's easy to say "stop being OCD" but easier said than done. At least you're aware of your tendencies; that's a critical first step to addressing the problem.

I think your journey of improvement will involve a lot of self-discovery and introspection as the problem is more internal than external. Learn to embrace the challenge and the journey; let the destination take care of itself. You may find you've reached your destination a lot sooner than you had anticipated [the opposite of the "are we there yet?" syndrome] or that your destination has evolved.

Yes i realized this was greatly affecting my game. At first when i was younger, i would purposely do it, thinking "if this person is such a good player, than i will be better by copying his strokes". Now i realize its more subconcious i try to stop myself when i do it, and somedays i just have trouble finding my own stroke, especially during a matches. So i think just a lot of repition with say a ball machine would help improve this and my consistency

powlemon · Aug 12, 2017

Traffic said:
So what I haven't heard is if OP plays USTA junior tournaments. There's several every month all year long. You need to play more formal matches in order to toughen up your mental game. You hit well during practice because you are relaxed and can hit out without worrying about a thing. But when you play a match, you play totally differently.

The only way to improve match play is to play matches. Period.

You can read books. You can do drills. You can practice with your ball machine. But when there is an opponent on the other side of the court getting more points than you, you are NOT relaxed. You are intimidated, frustrated, anxious, stiff, scared, etc. And you are NOT playing your game.

Now. If you do read the books, do the drills AND do match play, you will definitely improve.

I used to play usta when i was younger, but stopped for some reason, maybe just because that wasn't really my goal, to get a good ranking. But now i'm going to ask my parents to play more matches in usta, maybe a couple over the winter, but definitely next summer

powlemon · Aug 12, 2017

Harry_Wild said:
What type of racquet are playing with? A "modern" type frame? Since you seem to say you over hit in actual match conditions, try either a players type(aka traditional) racquet frame as a "demo" and see if it helps you keep the ball on court. I am surprise the the HS tennis coach did not give you any suggestions to help improve your game before you got cut.

I'm playing with a racquet with a pretty good amount of power, but its not uncontrollable, it is a modern frame. Yeah the HS tennis coach didn't really say much except, you know saying how we all played really well, he only had 1 more spot to fill, and how he wished i had a better day, i was playing bad the day i got cut, much worse than the day before. I think i was just playing too much or something, the day before tryouts i played 2 hours with the #3 singles on our tennis team. the 1st day of tryouts i played 3 hours during tryouts than i played again that night with my brother. the 2nd day i just wasn't feeling solid, my strokes were going out, i wasn't confident during matches, and i got cut.

S&V-not_dead_yet · Aug 12, 2017

powlemon said:
Yes i realized this was greatly affecting my game. At first when i was younger, i would purposely do it, thinking "if this person is such a good player, than i will be better by copying his strokes". Now i realize its more subconcious i try to stop myself when i do it, and somedays i just have trouble finding my own stroke, especially during a matches. So i think just a lot of repition with say a ball machine would help improve this and my consistency

Under pressure, you will revert to what you know best, your foundation. If you don't have a solid foundation because you bounce among styles, you will lack anything to fall back on and you will struggle.

I agree with @Traffic, though: not only do you have to groove your stroke with a lot of repetition, you must "hard wire" that knowledge by playing matches, the more pressure the better. You need to become so accustomed to the pressure that when you try out next year, it will be "just another day at the office".

I think your challenge is going to be finding a balance among the various elements: drills, fitness, mental toughness, footwork, practice, & matches. You mentioned you took/are taking private lessons: have you discussed this with your coach?

Think of it in school terms: one way to learn is to do the homework and take frequent quizzes. Any shortcomings will be identified quickly. Another way is to do no such checking until the final exam [tryouts].

Traffic · Aug 12, 2017

powlemon said:
I used to play usta when i was younger, but stopped for some reason, maybe just because that wasn't really my goal, to get a good ranking. But now i'm going to ask my parents to play more matches in usta, maybe a couple over the winter, but definitely next summer

My son hated going to tournaments. He didn't like facing tougher opponents and he didn't like to lose. I think that is very natural. It's nerve racking and it probably wasn't very fun; especially if you lose. But with each tournament, he was able to see his strengths and weaknesses as he faced different opponents. We took this information and worked with his private coach to improve his game. Playing USTA to gain ranking is definitely not the goal. For my son, his goal is to get on the HS varsity team. We don't expect him to play for college or make it to State or anything. Just play at a high enough level to have fun during his HS years.

Sounds like you're almost there. But just missed the mark. I'm sure your parents are disappointed for you but not at you. Don't be too hard on yourself. But rather put a new goal in mind to of making Varsity next year. Or, is there any opportunity to challenge up mid-season? Either way, you have two more years. Then if you keep playing consistently all year long through group classes, private lessons and entering at least one tournament each month, you will definitely improve significantly. I just mention these since it sounds like your parents have the means to support you. But the bottom line is it's up to you to maintain the passion and put in the effort. Remember the kids that beat you probably put in just as much work as you. Or they have been playing longer than you. So you need to put in even more effort to make up ground. Think of tournaments as practice HS try-outs or HS matches against rival schools. These are all means to an end.

Traffic · Aug 12, 2017

powlemon said:
I'm playing with a racquet with a pretty good amount of power, but its not uncontrollable, it is a modern frame. Yeah the HS tennis coach didn't really say much except, you know saying how we all played really well, he only had 1 more spot to fill, and how he wished i had a better day, i was playing bad the day i got cut, much worse than the day before. I think i was just playing too much or something, the day before tryouts i played 2 hours with the #3 singles on our tennis team. the 1st day of tryouts i played 3 hours during tryouts than i played again that night with my brother. the 2nd day i just wasn't feeling solid, my strokes were going out, i wasn't confident during matches, and i got cut.

I think it's good to have a quality racquet and find a string and tension that works with your style of play. But this seems to be much less a factor in your outcome. I doubt a HS coach will say much about it unless you are playing with a bent aluminum racquet.

You over played during try-out week. You should have been playing hard all summer long and then taper prior to try-out week.

When my son has a tournament where he is playing singles and doubles, the most we do is I'll warm up with him on the court an hour prior to his match. We just go through the mini tennis, baseline rally, volley, overhead and serves. Probably 1/2hr at most. Just to move your body and have a touch on the ball.

There was a tournament where we played a bunch the day before his match and it just left him with sore/stiff body the next day. It's best to have lots of rest, pre-hydrate, and stay in a relaxed state. Then prior to your match, have a warm up routine to get the blood circulating and get your body ready for action.

My son had two matches the last two days. He has no matches today and then doubles tomorrow. So we'll probably hit the courts today and do our warm-ups and then play "tie break" for points to practice serving and ROS and playing out points. But probably limit it to 1.5hrs and then go for a light swim to get the lactic acid out (my son is also a competitive swimmer to help with cross training). Good meals and rest to follow.

Traffic · Aug 12, 2017

S&V-not_dead_yet said:
Under pressure, you will revert to what you know best, your foundation. If you don't have a solid foundation because you bounce among styles, you will lack anything to fall back on and you will struggle.

Think of it in school terms: one way to learn is to do the homework and take frequent quizzes. Any shortcomings will be identified quickly. Another way is to do no such checking until the final exam [tryouts].

Both are excellent points. I was actually typing out the classroom analogy as well because it is so perfect. Homework and quizzes all term long to track your progress vs do very little and cram right before the finals.

Topspin Shot · Aug 12, 2017

powlemon said:
I just watched the bob litwin interview once, and right now i'm thinking really hard about it. Bob Litwin had his own method of dealing with the noises in the head, how he would play out conversations between the judge and the positive noises. i don't think thats my style, but i have learned that the mental aspect is something i need to practicce, I try not to show it on the outside, which might make it even worse because I hold it all in. People have always made comments about how i'm expressionless, win or lose, they say that its good that i don't get too emotional when i lose points. But the truth is I do. Yesterday in tryouts i played a kid, i was winning 3-0 and he ended up beating me 6-4 it was a kid i should have easily beaten, I was just broken down. I play good in practice because it doesn't matter, and i try to tell myself that in a match, i say it doesn't matter, just do your best. But like they mentioned in the video i was lying to myself. I was telling myself that it doesn't matter, and i was telling myself to relax but deep down, i was still scared of losing to someone i should beat, still scared of hitting a normal forehand, and still scared that i would get cut for the 2nd year. I need to find my way to deal with my mental issues during a match. Like Bob said, i'm too worried on the results rather than whats going on, even halfway through the set i start thinking "how could you miss these easy shots" "what if you don't make the team" "what if you lose to this kid, the coaches will think you suck". And i'm not thinking in the moment like i should be. I made a decision today that after the season ends, i will start to play more tournaments and hopefully i will be able to improve myself where i need it the most. i have a question for you, how do deal with losing points in matches? are you negative towards yourself, are you just accepting, how do you quiet that little voice in your head that just gets louder each time you miss a shot

The best feeling in tennis is a thrilling victory at the end of a tight third set. For that to happen you have to play 3 hours of points and lose about half of them. So don't worry if you lose points, just keep plugging away and things will turn around.

powlemon · Aug 12, 2017

Topspin Shot said:
The best feeling in tennis is a thrilling victory at the end of a tight third set. For that to happen you have to play 3 hours of points and lose about half of them. So don't worry if you lose points, just keep plugging away and things will turn around.

you are correct, watching pros play, they will sometimes miss ball that wasn't very difficult, or they might miss an easy putaway. But the difference between me and pros is, the next time pros get the same shot they missed, they understand that there is nothing wrong with their strokes and they understand that the last mistakes was just a mistake and nothing more. When i make a mistake i question myself, and my form, i take it as more than just a mistake, and the next time i hit the same ball, i'm more hesitant and play differently. to sum it up, i think pros are confident enough in their own game and in themselves to realize that a mistake happened once and won't repeatedly, while I am scared of myself making the same mistake again, so i do something different, which ends up in me hitting the ball out again, and thats where things just go downhill

coupergear · Aug 12, 2017

This happened to me a bit in high school--when you take lessons as a kid but aren't super committed to the game (don't do junior ournaments for example) you don't play enough matches. You do a lot of lessons and drills which improves your strokes but you don't have Live Match experience and when you get to a match you kind of think your strokes will just take over and win for you but it becomes a whole different thing once you have scoreboard pressure, and the ball keeps coming back over to you. You've learned to do the strokes in isolation from trying to win matches or points and they really are two different things especially at lower levels. The guys you are playing don't care about strokes they're focused on one thing, getting the ball over the net one more time than you. I would recommend slowing your game down trying to hit the ball easier don't take big hero cuts at the ball don't think your strokes are going to bail you out you still need to get it over into the court. I'm guessing you have many UEs trying to hit big pretty shots. Don't try to be a magician when out of position (macci). I don't mean giving up on your fundamentals you need to keep these but you can hit easier, like medium pace, using the same good fundamentals. You can then put the ball where you want, reduce UEs and beat these autodidact pushers.

powlemon · Aug 12, 2017

coupergear said:
This happened to me a bit in high school--when you take lessons as a kid but aren't super committed to the game (don't do junior ournaments for example) you don't play enough matches. You do a lot of lessons and drills which improves your strokes but you don't have Live Match experience and when you get to a match you kind of think your strokes will just take over and win for you but it becomes a whole different thing once you have scoreboard pressure, and the ball keeps coming back over to you. You've learned to do the strokes in isolation from trying to win matches or points and they really are two different things especially at lower levels. The guys you are playing don't care about strokes they're focused on one thing, getting the ball over the net one more time than you. I would recommend slowing your game down trying to hit the ball easier don't take big hero cuts at the ball don't think your strokes are going to bail you out you still need to get it over into the court. I'm guessing you have many UEs trying to hit big pretty shots. Don't try to be a magician when out of position (macci). I don't mean giving up on your fundamentals you need to keep these but you can hit easier, like medium pace, using the same good fundamentals. You can then put the ball where you want, reduce UEs and beat these autodidact pushers.

yeah, i need more match experience, Over the summer i practiced alot but didn't go to much matches or even play matches in practice. I went to lots of captains practices and everyone said "you'll have no problem making the team" but in tryouts i just couldn't play like i normally do, which is dissapointing for myself. I really got to know the team over the summer all the seniors and I was really getting ready to have a fun season on varsity, but i didn't make it and now I lost a year on varsity to play and have fun. You know part of the reason i wanted to be on varsity was to be on varsity, but also part of it was just to have the experience, varsity hosts parties and they have overnight trips and everything, the whole team is pretty close, and i feel like i missed on a chance to be a part of it. Next year seniors will be leaving and I just feel a ton of regret, not playing more matches over the summer, and its sad that i lost on all that just for losing one match in tryouts. But its just something i have to deal with right now. It hurts even more knowing that i'm better than so much people on the team, and i'm not saying that because i think i'm supergood, some people on the team are really bad, I mean 100% sure that no matter how bad i play i would have a chance at beating them, but since the coach knew them from being on varsity last year, they kinda didn't have to prove themselves as much. I just feel miserable when i think about it, hopefully I can improve myself and make up for lost time

coupergear · Aug 12, 2017

powlemon said:
yeah, i need more match experience, Over the summer i practiced alot but didn't go to much matches or even play matches in practice. I went to lots of captains practices and everyone said "you'll have no problem making the team" but in tryouts i just couldn't play like i normally do, which is dissapointing for myself. I really got to know the team over the summer all the seniors and I was really getting ready to have a fun season on varsity, but i didn't make it and now I lost a year on varsity to play and have fun. You know part of the reason i wanted to be on varsity was to be on varsity, but also part of it was just to have the experience, varsity hosts parties and they have overnight trips and everything, the whole team is pretty close, and i feel like i missed on a chance to be a part of it. Next year seniors will be leaving and I just feel a ton of regret, not playing more matches over the summer, and its sad that i lost on all that just for losing one match in tryouts. But its just something i have to deal with right now. It hurts even more knowing that i'm better than so much people on the team, and i'm not saying that because i think i'm supergood, some people on the team are really bad, I mean 100% sure that no matter how bad i play i would have a chance at beating them, but since the coach knew them from being on varsity last year, they kinda didn't have to prove themselves as much. I just feel miserable when i think about it, hopefully I can improve myself and make up for lost time

yeah I know what you mean social aspect of being on a team can be even more important than the sport itself. It's nice to have a group to be able to do things with and be a part of. Unfortunately all this in-crowd teen angst just served to up the ante even further for your challenge match so that you really felt like everything was riding on it that you totally choked up and played even tighter and worse than usual. Maybe this will give you motivation to get more match play under your belt so that you can put your Superior fundamentals to work and beat the pushers next year and deal with f**ckin pressure as Phil Jackson used to yell at the Bulls.

powlemon · Aug 12, 2017

coupergear said:
yeah I know what you mean social aspect of being on a team can be even more important than the sport itself. It's nice to have a group to be able to do things with and be a part of. Unfortunately all this in-crowd teen angst just served to up the ante even further for your challenge match so that you really felt like everything was riding on it that you totally choked up and played even tighter and worse than usual. Maybe this will give you motivation to get more match play under your belt so that you can put your Superior fundamentals to work and beat the pushers next year and deal with f**ckin pressure as Phil Jackson used to yell at the Bulls.

as of right now i've been dealing with my sadness by staying in my room just watching youtube videos, and visiting this thread. I'm sad and almost embarassed of myself and what i couldn't accomplish. I just want to do nothing right now and feel bad for myself, but i know that if i want to improve i should be out there playing. Its just something i have to deal with and I need to play more matches but i just don't know where to start, I have the Jv season right now, regular practices start on monday only 2 hours and its really not enough to improve, because everyone there is a lower level than me.

coupergear · Aug 12, 2017

Also yeah seniority is going to make a difference it's not always meritocracy on teams older guys are going to get the benefit of the doubt an unproven guy such as yourself is going to have to prove himself. Also is there no JV team? Seems like if you want to show commitment to your coaches you suck it up and play JV ball and work your way up could be midway through the season if you're beating the pants off of all the JV dudes they'll be forced to take a look at adding you to The Varsity

coupergear · Aug 12, 2017

powlemon said:
as of right now i've been dealing with my sadness by staying in my room just watching youtube videos, and visiting this thread. I'm sad and almost embarassed of myself and what i couldn't accomplish. I just want to do nothing right now and feel bad for myself, but i know that if i want to improve i should be out there playing. Its just something i have to deal with and I need to play more matches but i just don't know where to start, I have the Jv season right now, regular practices start on monday only 2 hours and its really not enough to improve, because everyone there is a lower level than me.

okay yeah now you're just being a victim. Annoying With your woe is me stuff. hahaha. Hey dude you're on JV prove it to the coaches that you're the best by far on JV. The idea that you can't learn and improve while you're on JV is ridiculous

powlemon · Aug 12, 2017

coupergear said:
Also yeah seniority is going to make a difference it's not always meritocracy on teams older guys are going to get the benefit of the doubt an unproven guy such as yourself is going to have to prove himself. Also is there no JV team? Seems like if you want to show commitment to your coaches you suck it up and play JV ball and work your way up could be midway through the season if you're beating the pants off of all the JV dudes they'll be forced to take a look at adding you to The Varsity

Yeah, no matter how good i am i doubt they would move me up to jv, and i'm not just saying that, in my school pretty much after tryouts the teams are set, it doesn't matter how good or bad you are, your pretty much on the team that you are on. But I do need to stop being so negative, and utilize my resources, Jv definitely won't challenge me as much as varsity but i can still improve and i can still play other than jv. Although right now I don't really have a hitting partner. I've been hitting with my brother since as early as i can remember, now he's leaving to university my hope was that i would make varsity and make some connections with the kids on the team so i could continue to play more over the winter, but right now I'm having trouble finding someone who can play with me. I'll just hit with the ball machine though, as i really need to improve my consistency, and hopefully when winter comes i'll find a kid to hit with at the club i go to

Topspin Shot · Aug 12, 2017

powlemon said:
Yeah, no matter how good i am i doubt they would move me up to jv, and i'm not just saying that, in my school pretty much after tryouts the teams are set, it doesn't matter how good or bad you are, your pretty much on the team that you are on. But I do need to stop being so negative, and utilize my resources, Jv definitely won't challenge me as much as varsity but i can still improve and i can still play other than jv. Although right now I don't really have a hitting partner. I've been hitting with my brother since as early as i can remember, now he's leaving to university my hope was that i would make varsity and make some connections with the kids on the team so i could continue to play more over the winter, but right now I'm having trouble finding someone who can play with me. I'll just hit with the ball machine though, as i really need to improve my consistency, and hopefully when winter comes i'll find a kid to hit with at the club i go to

I'm sensing a reluctance to play matches. Fair warning. No matter how consistent you get with the machine you will be an inconsistent wreck in matches if you don't play them.

Topspin Shot · Aug 12, 2017

powlemon said:
you are correct, watching pros play, they will sometimes miss ball that wasn't very difficult, or they might miss an easy putaway. But the difference between me and pros is, the next time pros get the same shot they missed, they understand that there is nothing wrong with their strokes and they understand that the last mistakes was just a mistake and nothing more. When i make a mistake i question myself, and my form, i take it as more than just a mistake, and the next time i hit the same ball, i'm more hesitant and play differently. to sum it up, i think pros are confident enough in their own game and in themselves to realize that a mistake happened once and won't repeatedly, while I am scared of myself making the same mistake again, so i do something different, which ends up in me hitting the ball out again, and thats where things just go downhill

You said kids who don't take tennis seriously made varsity. You think they have great strokes? Your strokes aren't the problem. Stop worrying about them and focus on learning strategy and handling competition.

Traffic · Aug 12, 2017

powlemon said:
Yeah, no matter how good i am i doubt they would move me up to jv, and i'm not just saying that, in my school pretty much after tryouts the teams are set, it doesn't matter how good or bad you are, your pretty much on the team that you are on. But I do need to stop being so negative, and utilize my resources, Jv definitely won't challenge me as much as varsity but i can still improve and i can still play other than jv. Although right now I don't really have a hitting partner. I've been hitting with my brother since as early as i can remember, now he's leaving to university my hope was that i would make varsity and make some connections with the kids on the team so i could continue to play more over the winter, but right now I'm having trouble finding someone who can play with me. I'll just hit with the ball machine though, as i really need to improve my consistency, and hopefully when winter comes i'll find a kid to hit with at the club i go to

You have our empathy and sympathy. But as @coupergear has pointed out, get over the 'woah is me' and put a productive plan in motion.

Do you know anyone in Varsity? Can you hit with one of them outside of normal practice; like on weekends?

Just as you've said you don't want to play with weaker players, think of how the varsity players would feel about you. Don't put others down just as you don't want to be put down.

So are you on JV? Are you #1 singles? Prove your commitment to improving your tennis by winning your #1 JV matches. During practice, focus on the areas you have problems with and work on them. If you want to make it more challenging and your partner acknowledges you are better, then start each game 0-15 or 0-30. You'll have to play more patiently and make very little errors in order to win. Help those that are weaker than you to improve and you'll find ways to improve your own game.

Don't wait until after tennis season to look up USTA tournaments in your area. Get on it right now. Enter all the Intermediate and Advanced tournaments you can attend. Get out there and get your butt kicked and learn how to kick back.

My son is entered into a tournament this week. He has one next week. Then he has HS try-outs. Then he'll probably enter one or two tournaments during tennis season and then shoot for one tournament a month for the remainder of the school year. He'll continue ongoing after the season with group classes and private lessons. This is the commitment level of a player that wants to get onto the Varsity team.

dgold44 · Aug 12, 2017

powlemon said:
Let me start off by saying this is more a rant but i do need your help. Tennis tryouts were these days and I just got cut from varsity team. I have been playing tennis since 7, group lessons, privates, everything. All coaches have told me i have very good talent and form, but right now i just don't see where its at. I used to not try, i would go out and hit and not really care. This year i really really wanted to get on varsity, last year (freshman) i lost my a couple spots. This year there were only 2 spots, and i lost by 1 person. And afterwards i cried, right now i'm feeling so down i don't know what to do. I lost to a fricken pusher, pushing all the balls, and i would literally hit them out, one after another. It makes me beyond sad to think about all the money my parents have spent, all the effort my mom makes, all the time i have spent practicing, and not make the team. I wanted so bad to make the team, now being told that i could at most spend 2 years on the varsity team before i graduate is so sad. now thinking of all the tests i have to take, all the homework i have to do, all the band practices i have to go through before i get a chance of making it next summer is so sad. I'm really depressed, i've been playing for so long, to see people who don't even play tennis as their main sport. What i need help with, my forehand is pretty good in practice, but in play once i miss a couple i get scared, than i try to over emphasize spin, and the ball goes out. What should i do... i feel like such an underachiever, all coaches say stuff like "you have the best strokes i've seen, you can take this game anywhere you want to" and i can't even make a highschool team... I'm not playing college tennis, there is no way i'm good enough, so highschool tennis is basically the peak of my "career" and i can't even be on varsity. Last year, i was a freshman i wasn't that sad, but this year, to think that i've been playing tennis since 7 with thousands of dollars spent on private lessons, hours and hours hitting with my brother, and i can't do jack.

EDIT: thanks for all the help everyone, while i am sad that i not be able to have 3 years on varsity. I will continue to improve myself, next year there are 6 spots open, so the chances i'm on the team are very high, but to make up for lost season, i also want a decent spot at least starting. I'm gonna be back if i need more help, right now, i'm setting a reminder on my phone everyday, that says "improve tennis today" and i will do something to improve everyday, whether it is playing tennis with a friend or just staying fit at home. During the school year, i got very distracted with tests/ extracurriculars, but getting cut from varsity has been extremely tough for me. I'm not happy at all, but I am going to think about it every day and make sure that next year i will be on varsity and hopefully playing a decent position.

Are you a sophomore ???
How did u get a naturally strong serve

Just work on getting more topspin and control

Can u not rechallenge this pushing twirp??

dgold44 · Aug 12, 2017

powlemon said:
I just got a call from my dad, he is traveling for business. Telling me, I love you, keep playing, sometimes you get unlucky in life. I'm extremely grateful for my parents, and i'm not sad because my parents are dissapointed in me or anything. I'm just mad at myself, i feel like i should be better than i am. And i know that its all my fault for not putting in harder work during practice. I just want to be a better player and feel good that i have something to show for my work. Right now I am resigned to the fact that i will be spending another season on JV, I just hope that in the time i have left, i can improve myself so that when i'm 50 i can look back on my junior tennis days with satisfaction

When you are 50 you won't even think about this stuff as you will have far bigger problems
I always hated team tennis with a passion and had more fun playing far away tourneys

I made varisty freshman year on a top ranked team but lost my doubles spot and was put on the bench
I quit the team and never went back and I could have had a 4th singles spot as sophomore or junior
I kind of regret it as other team mates said that they would have won a state title because their current 4th spot guy was the weak link
I would give them a solid 4th spot

powlemon · Aug 12, 2017

dgold44 said:
Are you a sophomore ???
How did u get a naturally strong serve

Just work on getting more topspin and control

Can u not rechallenge this pushing twirp??

my serve is pretty good, i don't know how i just practiced it it used to be one of the hardest parts of my game back when i was younger but now my serve is pretty consistent, even on bad days. I hit today with my brother again, i was really trying to work on control but i was still hitting balls out, it was pretty frustrating i would hit a ball, hit another, than hit another ball out. The good thing today was my backhand was pretty good, and my approach shots were all decent, high percentage going in, although i wasn't placing them as well as i wanted because i was focusing on keeping them in. most of the balls i hit out were my forehand/backhand from baseline, mostly my forehand, and it mostly wasn't due to going out wide, but going out deep. I naturally don't hit a shot with a ton of spin on it, but there is still spin on my forehand, its just i feel like my forehands are too deep, even the ones that go in are just around the baseline/no mans land. Maybe my incosistency is due to not moving my feet, I have never had great footwork, and today i just was still feeling kind of down, and i wasn't really bringing a ton of energy into my footwork. I'm going to go out tommorow with my ball machine hopefully or definitely on monday and work on my consistency and control. I can't rechallange this kid because i'm on JV and i'm not sure if its only my school but the JV and V have pretty much their own practices and everything, no challenges or anything. kinda disspointing

coupergear · Aug 12, 2017

Just dominate the jv. Nice thing about tennis, unlike team sports where it can be way more subjective and political as to who gets playing time, if you win you can't be ignored. You'll move up. It's that simple. My Dads family friend great lifelong player, could have gone pro but chose med school in late 60s. He said as a junior he would play people in his club. Keep playing them until he could beat them. Pretty soon there wasn't anyone left in the club he couldnt beat.

dgold44 · Aug 12, 2017

You could play other sports like football or basketball until next season

Don't know how big or tough you are ???

dgold44 · Aug 12, 2017

coupergear said:
Just dominate the jv. Nice thing about tennis, unlike team sports where it can be way more subjective and political as to who gets playing time, if you win you can't be ignored. You'll move up. It's that simple. My Dads family friend great lifelong player, could have gone pro but chose med school in late 60s. He said as a junior he would play people in his club. Keep playing them until he could beat them. Pretty soon there wasn't anyone left in the club he couldnt beat.

Interesting

S&V-not_dead_yet · Aug 12, 2017

You're still in the grieving process. Once you get past that [days, weeks, hopefully not months], you'll be ready to bear down and come up with a plan and commit to seeing it through.

One thing that will help tremendously is finding a partner who is on the same page: now someone can hold you accountable. Don't feel like practicing? Your partner will push you. Don't feel like working out? Ditto. Want to quit an hour early? Ditto. And you will be there for him if he falters. Hopefully the two of you aren't competing for one spot at next year's tryouts.

Mark Asher · Aug 13, 2017

powlemon said:
Let me start off by saying this is more a rant but i do need your help. Tennis tryouts were these days and I just got cut from varsity team. I have been playing tennis since 7, group lessons, privates, everything. All coaches have told me i have very good talent and form, but right now i just don't see where its at. I used to not try, i would go out and hit and not really care. This year i really really wanted to get on varsity, last year (freshman) i lost my a couple spots. This year there were only 2 spots, and i lost by 1 person. And afterwards i cried, right now i'm feeling so down i don't know what to do. I lost to a fricken pusher, pushing all the balls, and i would literally hit them out, one after another. It makes me beyond sad to think about all the money my parents have spent, all the effort my mom makes, all the time i have spent practicing, and not make the team. I wanted so bad to make the team, now being told that i could at most spend 2 years on the varsity team before i graduate is so sad. now thinking of all the tests i have to take, all the homework i have to do, all the band practices i have to go through before i get a chance of making it next summer is so sad. I'm really depressed, i've been playing for so long, to see people who don't even play tennis as their main sport. What i need help with, my forehand is pretty good in practice, but in play once i miss a couple i get scared, than i try to over emphasize spin, and the ball goes out. What should i do... i feel like such an underachiever, all coaches say stuff like "you have the best strokes i've seen, you can take this game anywhere you want to" and i can't even make a highschool team... I'm not playing college tennis, there is no way i'm good enough, so highschool tennis is basically the peak of my "career" and i can't even be on varsity. Last year, i was a freshman i wasn't that sad, but this year, to think that i've been playing tennis since 7 with thousands of dollars spent on private lessons, hours and hours hitting with my brother, and i can't do jack.

EDIT: thanks for all the help everyone, while i am sad that i not be able to have 3 years on varsity. I will continue to improve myself, next year there are 6 spots open, so the chances i'm on the team are very high, but to make up for lost season, i also want a decent spot at least starting. I'm gonna be back if i need more help, right now, i'm setting a reminder on my phone everyday, that says "improve tennis today" and i will do something to improve everyday, whether it is playing tennis with a friend or just staying fit at home. During the school year, i got very distracted with tests/ extracurriculars, but getting cut from varsity has been extremely tough for me. I'm not happy at all, but I am going to think about it every day and make sure that next year i will be on varsity and hopefully playing a decent position.

I played on my high school team back in the late '70's. I played doubles. I would have liked to have played singles, but the singles players were better than me so doubles it was.

My last year I was a senior and my doubles partner was a sophomore. We did ok as I remember. No idea what level we were. I graduated, went to college, and ran into my old doubles partner a few years later. He told me that after the year we played together he got serious and practiced six hours a day and got lessons. He became the #1 singles player on the team for his last two years, and later went on to become a teaching pro a club, something he's done ever since.

My point is that you can dramatically improve through hard work after your sophomore year. I know someone who did it.

Ash_Smith · Aug 13, 2017

@powlemon

Edited my earlier placeholder with a response for you...

Chas Tennis · Aug 13, 2017

Have you used high speed video for feedback on your strokes? If so, how do you see your strokes in comparison to high level strokes?

hieu1811 · Aug 15, 2017

depressed because you lost some matches ... let's think about it this way, you are still healthy and can go to the court any day to continue to play.

Tomorrow will be another day!!!.

There are other people that for some reasons, or even due to injury, that they can no longer play the sports that they love.

marian10 · Aug 15, 2017

If you play 5x better during practice, then your training lessons suck. You're supposed to finish practicing on your knees or taken to your technical limit by the coach. Training is supposed to be HARDER than competition. A good coach should remind you how lazy and limited you are. Then he should show you the path to progress.

You do it for you. Not for parents, not for the coach or popularity.
People owe you nothing and you owe them nothing. A good mindset is to realize that you suck at tennis. Compared to pros, compared to the better player you'll become. Compared to pushers who are able to get that ball inside the court. You can't believe or believe people telling you you weren't taken by mistake. From that point you'll thrive progression. The will to progress should be your drug. Competition is an entirely different game than student tennis. Can you even beat decent adults?

Change your mindset. Change your training method. Change your sparring partners. Change something. You'll not get better by doing the same thing again on more year. It's not necessarily match play that you need. Maybe you need a coach/someone who will tell you the truth about your game, not what you're willing or what your parents are willing to hear. Maybe you need match play as it contains that truth component.

Do you play in a club outside high school?

Traffic · Aug 15, 2017

marian10 said:
If you play 5x better during practice, then your training lessons suck. You're supposed to finish practicing on your knees or taken to your technical limit by the coach. Training is supposed to be HARDER than competition. A good coach should remind you how lazy and limited you are. Then he should show you the path to progress.

You do it for you. Not for parents, not for the coach or popularity.
People owe you nothing and you owe them nothing. A good mindset is to realize that you suck at tennis. Compared to pros, compared to the better player you'll become. Compared to pushers who are able to get that ball inside the court. You can't believe or believe people telling you you weren't taken by mistake. From that point you'll thrive progression. The will to progress should be your drug. Competition is an entirely different game than student tennis. Can you even beat decent adults?

Change your mindset. Change your training method. Change your sparring partners. Change something. You'll not get better by doing the same thing again on more year. It's not necessarily match play that you need. Maybe you need a coach/someone who will tell you the truth about your game, not what you're willing or what your parents are willing to hear. Maybe you need match play as it contains that truth component.

Do you play in a club outside high school?

This is all very good and valid information.
I think the bottom line is lack of match experience. You can be the best player in your class drills or practice matches. But until you step onto a court playing for big stakes, than it's totally different level of pressure than just having to go to the back of the line in drills.

You need to learn how to play consistently with pressure no matter where or who you are facing.

rogerroger917 · Aug 15, 2017

Just play a ton of matches. I guarantee if you stopped all lessons and just played 3 matches per week you will demolish your clone only taking lessons 3 times a week with no match play.

Do both and you are golden. Practice matches count. 2 practice matches and 1 tournament per week. If you go deep in tournament over weekend just 1 practice matches next week. Then another tournament. Rinse repeat.

depressed... need help

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