Need help with inside in forehand please

sanister · Feb 29, 2020

Hi guys,

I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction. Tried the search function and didn't find anything so apologies if already discussed.

I would like some tips or instructions on hitting the inside-in forehand. One of my main shots is actually the inside out forehand. I mostly camp in the ad court. Comes very naturally to me and I can push opponents off court slowly by pushing them back and then off the court. My issue is hitting the inside in forehand once I have worked the opponent. Have lots of room and open court and I always end up slapping the ball long or in the end whenever I try to switch from inside-out forehand to an inside-in forehand.

Any helpful tips appreciated. Im a strong 4.0 and I'm quick to pick up on things once I understand what to do.

Thanks

rrortiz5 · Feb 29, 2020

This might not be what you’re asking but working on my cross court forehand helped my inside-in tremendously. I have a reliable inside out also.

pencilcheck · Mar 1, 2020

sanister said:
Hi guys,

I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction. Tried the search function and didn't find anything so apologies if already discussed.

I would like some tips or instructions on hitting the inside-in forehand. One of my main shots is actually the inside out forehand. I mostly camp in the ad court. Comes very naturally to me and I can push opponents off court slowly by pushing them back and then off the court. My issue is hitting the inside in forehand once I have worked the opponent. Have lots of room and open court and I always end up slapping the ball long or in the end whenever I try to switch from inside-out forehand to an inside-in forehand.

Any helpful tips appreciated. Im a strong 4.0 and I'm quick to pick up on things once I understand what to do.

Thanks

If you are strong 4.0 then you should understand that contact point determines a lot of the directionality that you spoke of, then you should know how to hit the inside in forehand once I mention this keyword, or so I hope.

I hope this message helps.

sanister · Mar 1, 2020

pencilcheck said:
If you are strong 4.0 then you should understand that contact point determines a lot of the directionality that you spoke of, then you should know how to hit the inside in forehand once I mention this keyword, or so I hope.

I hope this message helps.

Yes earlier contact, with ball infront is key. I was more interested in any tips that might help execute it better. Like footwork, setup, change in swingpath (?) or anything along those lines as when time comes to change up, I end up slapping the ball more. But either way, thanks for the suggestion. All input is much appreciated.

sanister · Mar 1, 2020

rrortiz5 said:
This might not be what you’re asking but working on my cross court forehand helped my inside-in tremendously. I have a reliable inside out also.

Thanks. Inside out forehand is my bread and butter honestly. I can push opponents back and then wide, no problem. It's the finishing off with inside in forehand that is bothering me. I can usually win the point with a drop shot or a low slice in the open court. I've tried closing legs to a more neutral stance and trying to whip more adding topspin for that inside in forehand but not very consistent and even though I have good technique usually, I end up looking very awkward slapping the ball.

giantschwinn · Mar 1, 2020

Earlier contact in the front is what kills the timing. I bet you frame it with the tip of the racquet. Try same contact point as you usually do but execute the whip/wrist lag a split second sooner so the racquet face comes around sooner. This is where having access to a ball machine is very helpful.

sanister · Mar 1, 2020

giantschwinn said:
Earlier contact in the front is what kills the timing. I bet you frame it with the tip of the racquet. Try same contact point as you usually do but execute the whip/wrist lag a split second sooner so the racquet face comes around sooner. This is where having access to a ball machine is very helpful.

Thanks! And yes, it's usually the top part of the hoop I frame with. I do have a nice Lobster ball machine (and two teenage college tennis playing boys to substitute in case). Will practice this. Much appreciated.

ptuanminh · Mar 1, 2020

When you are slapping the ball inside out, does it mean you dont have much topspin on it? You should put decent amount of topspin on inside in, the net is higher there.

S&V-not_dead_yet · Mar 1, 2020

sanister said:
Have lots of room and open court and I always end up slapping the ball long

"Slapping" doesn't sound like very good technique: is your technique markedly different with II vs IO? Video yourself.

Remember that the court is 4 1/2' shorter and the net 6" higher comparing the extremes of II vs IO. Maybe you just need more TS to give yourself some margin?

Also, don't think of this is a putaway shot [as in "I have to hit a winner"]. Think of it as a setup shot where you're hoping to get a short, weak reply that you can attack. If it happens that it turns out to be a winner [or one that doesn't make it back into your court], so much the better.

sanister · Mar 1, 2020

ptuanminh said:
When you are slapping the ball inside out, does it mean you dont have much topspin on it? You should put decent amount of topspin on inside in, the net is higher there.

No, I never slap the ball inside out. I have modern forehand that is actually pretty sound technically (neutral stance, contact point, backswing and avg low to high swing) and very very consistent for me as well. I don't have extremely windshield wiper sort of strokes, a bit more linear, but nowhere near old school types. Also, I have a semi western forehand grip that sometimes creeps towards eastern side. I'm not a big topspin player so perhaps need to work on that for the inside in forehand like you said.

sanister · Mar 1, 2020

S&V-not_dead_yet said:
"Slapping" doesn't sound like very good technique: is your technique markedly different with II vs IO? Video yourself.

Remember that the court is 4 1/2' shorter and the net 6" higher comparing the extremes of II vs IO. Maybe you just need more TS to give yourself some margin?

Also, don't think of this is a putaway shot [as in "I have to hit a winner"]. Think of it as a setup shot where you're hoping to get a short, weak reply that you can attack. If it happens that it turns out to be a winner [or one that doesn't make it back into your court], so much the better.

Thanks. Yes, I haven't videod myself but my hitting partner was trying to help me said that my IO forehand looks so much better. And that when I hit the II forehand it makes me look a bit awkward. Instead of my usual neutral stance I sometimes go full open or sometimes just keep it neutral and compensate by arming the ball. I am guessing it is a fundamentals issue. I would love to know if I should just hit my forehand (like I do usually for IO) while simply move body to face where I want the ball to to go (DTL in this case), or change my swing path and angle of my stroke (but then that would feel like I'm arming the ball).

Definitely agree that court length is shorter and more TS would help. Just trying to figure out how to setup for it and execute.

And absolutely agree. That is a good way to think of it. Problem is if I tighten up to make the II forehand shot and leave it short and slow, and opponent reaches it, I have a longer distance to cover for his CC shot. Can't tell you how many times I've been burned on that one!

S&V-not_dead_yet · Mar 1, 2020

sanister said:
Instead of my usual neutral stance I sometimes go full open or sometimes just keep it neutral and compensate by arming the ball.

Well, if you're not accustomed to hitting with a full open stance and you only do it for II FHs, I could see that leading to technique/execution issues.

How about trying to use the same stance as your IO FH as a starting point and maybe make a small adjustment from there rather than going all the way to the other extreme with full open? Caveat about the timing and contact point as mentioned above, of course.

sanister · Mar 1, 2020

S&V-not_dead_yet said:
Well, if you're not accustomed to hitting with a full open stance and you only do it for II FHs, I could see that leading to technique/execution issues.

How about trying to use the same stance as your IO FH as a starting point and maybe make a small adjustment from there rather than going all the way to the other extreme with full open? Caveat about the timing and contact point as mentioned above, of course.

Thanks, will practice that. My issue I think so far has been I try something like that, doesn't work that I try to change it and then back and forth. Maybe I need to commit to one way. Will try to stick to my usual stance (the way I hit my IO forehand) and then try to make contact point and timing adjustments.

S&V-not_dead_yet · Mar 1, 2020

sanister said:
Thanks, will practice that. My issue I think so far has been I try something like that, doesn't work that I try to change it and then back and forth. Maybe I need to commit to one way. Will try to stick to my usual stance (the way I hit my IO forehand) and then try to make contact point and timing adjustments.

Also, make sure you're not lifting your head up prematurely to see where the shot is going [you can do this by looking at the contact point and waiting a beat before moving your head].

sanister · Mar 1, 2020

S&V-not_dead_yet said:
Also, make sure you're not lifting your head up prematurely to see where the shot is going [you can do this by looking at the contact point and waiting a beat before moving your head].

Like the Fed! I like that.

ptuanminh · Mar 1, 2020

sanister said:
No, I never slap the ball inside out. I have modern forehand that is actually pretty sound technically (neutral stance, contact point, backswing and avg low to high swing) and very very consistent for me as well. I don't have extremely windshield wiper sort of strokes, a bit more linear, but nowhere near old school types. Also, I have a semi western forehand grip that sometimes creeps towards eastern side. I'm not a big topspin player so perhaps need to work on that for the inside in forehand like you said.

well, you said you slap the ball, so i just assume. Anyhow, not a bad idea to put topspin on it, when you are going at the higher net part.

pencilcheck · Mar 1, 2020

sanister said:
Yes earlier contact, with ball infront is key. I was more interested in any tips that might help execute it better. Like footwork, setup, change in swingpath (?) or anything along those lines as when time comes to change up, I end up slapping the ball more. But either way, thanks for the suggestion. All input is much appreciated.

There are two kinds of earlier contacts, one that is DTL, one that is CC.

But since you said your problem is slapping, that just means you are arming the shot. As a strong 4.0, you should also know the keyword about core and kinetic chain, how do you hit normally? How are you hitting differently when doing inside in? Btw, inside in is the same as a rally shot (DTL). I hope this message helps.

sanister · Mar 1, 2020

ptuanminh said:
well, you said you slap the ball, so i just assume. Anyhow, not a bad idea to put topspin on it, when you are going at the higher net part.

Well, I just said I end up slapping the ball on the inside in forehand most times.

sanister said:
Have lots of room and open court and I always end up slapping the ball long in the end whenever I try to switch from inside-out forehand to an inside-in forehand.

Anyway, many thanks for your input. Will try to incorporate more topspin and see how that goes. I don't hit with a ton of spin usually so will have to make conscious effort.

sanister · Mar 1, 2020

pencilcheck said:
There are two kinds of earlier contacts, one that is DTL, one that is CC.

But since you said your problem is slapping, that just means you are arming the shot. As a strong 4.0, you should also know the keyword about core and kinetic chain, how do you hit normally? How are you hitting differently when doing inside in? Btw, inside in is the same as a rally shot (DTL). I hope this message helps.

Thanks. I meant ball contact in front more than where I usually contact the ball for my inside out forehand from ad court. For a cross court forehand from ad court (inside in forehand) my contact point is not that far in front. It is still ahead of my shoulder and is in line with left leg.

And yes thanks, I know about kinetic chain and use of core. I have had lessons when I started tennis so basic fundamentals are good. And as I said, I have a pretty sound inside out forehand from ad court that I use as a strength, pushing opponent back and away from the court. I am trying to learn what to do with one specific shot which is giving me a hard time.

Also what do you mean same as a rally shot? For my normal rally ball in neutral position or for my inside out forehand from ad court, the ball contact point is in line with my left leg, ahead of hitting shoulder, in semi open stance. For inside in forehand (aka DTL from ad court) the contact point has to be more in front. At least that is what my understanding is.

pencilcheck · Mar 1, 2020

sanister said:
Thanks. I meant ball contact in front more than where I usually contact the ball for my inside out forehand from ad court. For a cross court forehand from ad court (inside in forehand) my contact point is not that far in front. It is still ahead of my shoulder and is in line with left leg.

And yes thanks, I know about kinetic chain and use of core. I have had lessons when I started tennis so basic fundamentals are good. And as I said, I have a pretty sound inside out forehand from ad court that I use as a strength, pushing opponent back and away from the court. I am trying to learn what to do with one specific shot which is giving me a hard time.

Also what do you mean same as a rally shot? For my normal rally ball in neutral position or for my inside out forehand from ad court, the ball contact point is in line with my left leg, ahead of hitting shoulder, in semi open stance. For inside in forehand (aka DTL from ad court) the contact point has to be more in front. At least that is what my understanding is.

Yea, sorry i'm a lefty so some of the term I need to flip to understand.

Yes, if you are hitting inside in from ad court, shouldn't that be DTL instead of cross court? Since a inside out from ad court is reverse CC.

That's why I said inside in (if we are talking about the same thing), is just DTL and that is usually within how a rally shot would go (since you have to hit towards your opponent in the middle of the court).

However I think based on your description on how you aim with your mental image, in my opinion that simply means your contact point is not consistent.

And the reason is very simple, you are treating aiming like a radial polar coordinates from your right leg. Because your are extending from that right leg, it causes you to consistently having weird contact points and your wrist will bend unnaturally. I would advice you not to do that, since your legs can be placed and pointing anywhere depending on where the ball is flying. I would instead urge you to look at the court lines for aiming calibration instead. Since no matter where you are in the court, the court lines will always guide you to know where is front and where is side.

However, if you insist on using your right leg for aiming, then DTL is simply hitting towards your left of your body, but don't try to overrotate your body as that will make it CC instead (goes out of the left of the court).

That's why I asked if you know the terms, since I would imagine as a strong 4.0, aiming should not be an issue. I would imagine power is more of an issue instead.

sanister · Mar 1, 2020

pencilcheck said:
Yea, sorry i'm a lefty so some of the term I need to flip to understand.

Yes, if you are hitting inside in from ad court, shouldn't that be DTL instead of cross court? Since a inside out from ad court is reverse CC.

That's why I said inside in (if we are talking about the same thing), is just DTL and that is usually within how a rally shot would go (since you have to hit towards your opponent in the middle of the court).

However I think based on your description on how you aim with your mental image, in my opinion that simply means your contact point is not consistent.

And the reason is very simple, you are treating aiming like a radial polar coordinates from your right leg. Because your are extending from that right leg, it causes you to consistently having weird contact points and your wrist will bend unnaturally. I would advice you not to do that, since your legs can be placed and pointing anywhere depending on where the ball is flying. I would instead urge you to look at the court lines for aiming calibration instead. Since no matter where you are in the court, the court lines will always guide you to know where is front and where is side.

However, if you insist on using your right leg for aiming, then DTL is simply hitting towards your left of your body, but don't try to overrotate your body as that will make it CC instead (goes out of the left of the court).

That's why I asked if you know the terms, since I would imagine as a strong 4.0, aiming should not be an issue. I would imagine power is more of an issue instead.

Yes, I think you and I are on same page regarding inside in forehand (DTL from ad court side).

I also think you are on to something here regarding calibration and inconsistent contact point with the ball when going inside in. I do seem to have that issue mostly because I think I'm focusing too much on legs to aim. I'll try using court lines next time I play and drill some balls to see if that makes it better.

Yes, I know the terms well. Lots of online videos viewed, and lessons taken over the course of when I started tennis years back. This inside in issue was something I never noticed as much before. Here in TX, 4.0 are pretty good. Some sand bagging going on sure but mostly I've played with plenty of other 4.0 in my travels in ******* region and even towards the east more and find I play more consistently and usually come out on top. Could work more on fitness sure but then so many things need improvement as whole as well.

Anyway, thanks for the help!

Nellie · Mar 1, 2020

I try to disguise my inside in (down-the-line) forehand to look like my inside out (cross-court) by using the same initial foot positioning before contact but changing the contact position forward to aim the ball down the line. That usually means I start with a pretty open stance with my feet lined toward the left net post when I am in the ad corner (I am righty) waiting for the ball. For inside out, I make a small step with my right (back) foot to finish the stroke with my right elbow/shoulder pointed toward the right corner. When hitting inside in, I use a traditional big step down the line with my right foot to finish the stroke with my right elbow/shoulder pointed down the line. When practicing inside-in, I set up my bag about four feet inside the baseline and four feet right of side line as a target.

Need help with inside in forehand please

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