"Inside-in" vs "Inside-out" forehand terminology

[Raul_SJ]

Scenario:
Running around the backhand and hitting an "inside out" forehand crosscourt
or an "inside in" forehand down the line.

For both of these shots I hit the inside of the ball (that's why it is referred to as "inside")-- the only difference is that on the inside-out forehand I think of contacting the ball a bit later than inside-in, but I don't feel much difference in the follow-through between the two shots.

Why is it referred to as "inside-in" vs "inside-out"?

 

[MurrayMyInspiration]

Scenario:
Running around the backhand and hitting an "inside out" forehand crosscourt
or an "inside in" forehand down the line.

For both of these shots I hit the inside of the ball (that's why it is referred to as "inside")-- the only difference is that on the inside-out forehand I think of contacting the ball a bit later than inside-in, but I don't feel much difference in the follow-through between the two shots.

Why is it referred to as "inside-in" vs "inside-out"?

Peter David Inside (1634-1706) was the first player to regularly run around his backhand and hit forehand He was excellent at the inside in forehand but could never hit the inside out forehand as good.

He won the ROFL (Republic of France League) over 10 times with his club as the number 1 player.

When he died they decided to name the shot after him. Inside In because he always nailed that shot and inside out as he missed that long and wide far too often.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I do not believe that the the terms, inside-out and inside-in, refer to parts or sides of the ball. Instead, it refers to the path/direction of the ball with respect to the player who is going to play the ball. This terminology is consistent with the Wardlaw Directionals.

An "outside" shot is a ball that is directed away from you by your opponent. An outside ball usually, but not always, crosses in front of you. Most crosscourt shots are outside shots.

An "inside" shot is one that moves into your body (or parallel to you). When you run around a shot to your backhand side to hit a forehand, you are effectively turning (what would be) an outside shot to backhand and making it an inside shot to your forehand. "Inside-out" means that you are playing an inside ball and hitting it away from your opponent (an outside shot for them). With an inside-in shot, you take the ball as an inside shot and direct it down-the-line (more or less) so that it is (pretty much) parallel to your opponent.

In the image on the left, the players are hitting outside backhands to each other. In the image on the right, player A (at the bottom) hits a forehand to the inside of player B. Player B hits an inside backhand to the outside (backhand side) of player A.

 

[Raul_SJ]

Assuming you runaround quickly and get into position early to hit the inside-out forehand cross-court, is that a more difficult shot than the cross court backhand?

I usually don't runaround the backhand and stay with the backhand cross-court during the rally, as my backhand is not a weakness.

I have heard people say one of the toughest returns in doubles is the inside-out forehand cross-court return from the Ad court (and I have trouble with that shot).

That's why I am thinking running around the backhand during a rally to hit a forehand cross-court is a more difficult shot than the backhand cross-court

 

[BHiC]

Assuming you runaround quickly and get into position early to hit the inside-out forehand cross-court, is that a more difficult shot than the cross court backhand?

I usually don't runaround the backhand and stay with the backhand cross-court during the rally, as my backhand is not a weakness.

I have heard people say one of the toughest returns in doubles is the inside-out forehand cross-court return from the Ad court (and I have trouble with that shot).

That's why I am thinking running around the backhand during a rally to hit a forehand cross-court is a more difficult shot than the backhand cross-court

Whether an inside out forehand is easier or harder than a cross court backhand is entirely dependent on the person's skill set. I have a big forehand but a weaker backhand so for me it is easier to pull the forehand inside out than it is to hit a backhand cross court. For other people it is the opposite, especially if they like their backhand equal to or better than their forehand.
On returns, once again the shot difficulty is dependent on skill set. The most difficult return for me and IMO the majority of tennis players is the inside out backhand return on the deuce side. I naturally catch my forehand a little late so the inside out ad side return is an easier shot for me.

 

[J_R_B]

I always thought that the terminology was related to the ball's position relative to the hitter and the middle of the court. In other words, "inside" shots are where the ball is closer to the center hash (i.e. "inside") than the player hitting it.

 

[J_R_B]

On returns, once again the shot difficulty is dependent on skill set. The most difficult return for me and IMO the majority of tennis players is the inside out backhand return on the deuce side.

This is definitely true for me. I end up chipping or slicing these returns most of the time.

 

[TimeSpiral]

Scenario:
Running around the backhand and hitting an "inside out" forehand crosscourt
or an "inside in" forehand down the line.

For both of these shots I hit the inside of the ball (that's why it is referred to as "inside")-- the only difference is that on the inside-out forehand I think of contacting the ball a bit later than inside-in, but I don't feel much difference in the follow-through between the two shots.

Why is it referred to as "inside-in" vs "inside-out"?

Good questions, and SA gives a pretty good response below.

I do not believe that the the terms, inside-out and inside-in, refer to parts or sides of the ball. Instead, it refers to the path/direction of the ball with respect to the player who is going to play the ball. This terminology is consistent with the Wardlaw Directionals.

An "outside" shot is a ball that is directed away from you by your opponent. An outside ball usually, but not always, crosses in front of you. Most crosscourt shots are outside shots.

An "inside" shot is one that moves into your body (or parallel to you). When you run around a shot to your backhand side to hit a forehand, you are effectively turning (what would be) an outside shot to backhand and making it an inside shot to your forehand. "Inside-out" means that you are playing an inside ball and hitting it away from your opponent (an outside shot for them). With an inside-in shot, you take the ball as an inside shot and direct it down-the-line (more or less) so that it is (pretty much) parallel to your opponent.

In the image on the left, the players are hitting outside backhands to each other. In the image on the right, player A (at the bottom) hits a forehand to the inside of player B. Player B hits an inside backhand to the outside (backhand side) of player A.

Those images are taken straight from the lauded Wardlaw directionals (a basic shot selection strategy concept). An area I think that deserves some expounding is the terms you asked about.

SA suggests that the inside-out ball is dependent on whether or not your opponent takes the ball as an outside shot. I don't believe this to be the case, because commentators and spectators and players alike will still refer to the inside-out shot as just that, regardless of whether or not their opponent runs around the shot and takes it as an inside ball themselves. Right?

The inside-in ball is considered the "easier ball to hit" and is often the more aggressive or attacking of the two shot types, but by SA's description, when hitting an inside in shot you're essentially giving your opponent an inside ball. Why would you want to do that if the inside ball is desirable? (I'm being rhetorical here).

These basic concepts are ones that I employ in my game, and I think they're useful, but I would argue they are somewhat abstract. For instance, take look at the following figure:

The yellow lines are the direction the ball is traveling. The pink lines are the "reflections" or the path the ball would travel if the ball just reflected off your racquet angle.

Fig. (A) shows a classic inside-out ball. Notice the angle of reflection is the same as the direction you're hitting the ball. Fig. (B) is the outside out ball, notice the flection angle. Geometrically, these two shots are mirror images of each other.

We're told that redirecting an outside ball at 90 degrees (parallel to the side line), or "down the line" is more difficult then hitting the ball back from where it came, and that it's also more difficult than changing direction (COD) on an inside ball. It's the latter that I would encourage you think about.

Fig. (C) demonstrates the outside ball COD shot. Notice the reflection line. The ball is going out. Fig. (D) demonstrates the inside COD shot. Notice the reflection line. The ball is going out. Geometrically, these shots are mirror images of each other--the same shot, basically, yet we're told one is higher risk than the other. Perhaps it has something to do with your body being in the way on the outside COD shot as opposed to the inside shot, making it slightly easier to track and time the ball? Either way, the physics of the geometry is the same, and I think that may come as a surprise to some people.

I think people who study this shot selection strategy tend to "taboo" the outside COD direction, and favor the inside COD shot. I would just encourage you to lift the taboo from the outside COD shot, because it can be so powerful.

 

[user92626]

I wonder if these shot directions are applicable to recreational levels (4 and below). It seems like you could just redirect the ball anywhere you like. The only thing I need to keep in mind is NOT to do this: from a corner, hit the ball to them where they do not have to run. They will redirect the ball to my other corner and I'm dead.

 

[Bender]

I wonder if these shot directions are applicable to recreational levels (4 and below). It seems like you could just redirect the ball anywhere you like. The only thing I need to keep in mind is NOT to do this: from a corner, hit the ball to them where they do not have to run. They will redirect the ball to my other corner and I'm dead.

That may be because neither you nor your opponent are moving with respect to each other's court positioning.

 

[user92626]

That may be because neither you nor your opponent are moving with respect to each other's court positioning.

For example?

 

[Topspin Shot]

Peter David Inside (1634-1706) was the first player to regularly run around his backhand and hit forehand He was excellent at the inside in forehand but could never hit the inside out forehand as good.

He won the ROFL (Republic of France League) over 10 times with his club as the number 1 player.

When he died they decided to name the shot after him. Inside In because he always nailed that shot and inside out as he missed that long and wide far too often.

Please don't make sarcastic posts on serious threads.

 

[TimeSpiral]

Please don't make sarcastic posts on serious threads.

^ here here.

 

[MurrayMyInspiration]

^ here here.

I thought it was good!

 

[Topspin Shot]

I thought it was good!

Well, it was really funny, but the OP was asking a serious question. I reserve posts like that for the more ridiculous threads.

 

[Raul_SJ]

I think people who study this shot selection strategy tend to "taboo" the outside COD direction, and favor the inside COD shot. I would just encourage you to lift the taboo from the outside COD shot, because it can be so powerful.

If I understand correctly,

During a cross-court backhand rally, a backhand outside COD would mean going down the line with the backhand instead of running around the backhand to hit a down the line forehand...

Perhaps it has something to do with your body being in the way on the outside COD shot as opposed to the inside shot

I'm bit confused here. With a backhand outside COD, isn't the body already out of the way?

 

[LuckyR]

Peter David Inside (1634-1706) was the first player to regularly run around his backhand and hit forehand He was excellent at the inside in forehand but could never hit the inside out forehand as good.

He won the ROFL (Republic of France League) over 10 times with his club as the number 1 player.

When he died they decided to name the shot after him. Inside In because he always nailed that shot and inside out as he missed that long and wide far too often.

Don't let the stuffed shirts get you down. There is never an instance where descent quality sarcasm can't make life better. Onward!

 

[TimeSpiral]

If I understand correctly, during a cross-court backhand rally, consider going down the line with the backhand instead of running around the backhand to hit a down the line forehand...

But I'm not sure about "body getting in the way" part with an outside COD.

With a one-handed backhand, isn't the body already out of the way?

I'm happy to answer your question, but just keep in mind: I'm just some guy expressing his opinion.

Any type of change of direction (COD) shot, whether it be on an outside or an inside ball, is going to have a higher chance of erring than sending the ball back the way it came (direct reflection). But people who study the Wardlaw directionals are taught that COD shots on outside balls are "more risky" than COD shots on inside balls. Geometrically, they are the same, so I'm not sure why this theory is sound, unless it has something to do with a proposed biomechanical disposition towards a certain type of swing-path relative to the body.

To answer your question: yes, if you're able to control your backhand, then play a BH DTL is a great shot. Running around the BH and playing your FH DTL is a great shot too. Both are good and both have pros and cons. The BH DTL puts you in better court position to cover the net or recover to a FH Rally position. The tradeoff, you may not have as much control or pace with your BH, making the attack a little weaker. The inside FH DTL requires more footwork and for you to be out of position when hitting your shot. The tradeoff, the attack might have more control and more pace. You can typically still cover the net okay here (limited to covering the line, really), and recovering to the FH position requires more running.

If you're constantly running around your BH to hit forehands and you're not consistently causing damage, you're doing yourself a disservice by wearing yourself down, and not giving your BH enough match play experience. Once you start getting that BH under control, and can add some pace, you'll start noticing weak FH rally balls that create inside BH and can COD shot those CC and forece your opponent into a wicked BH OTR shot.

Anyway, hope that helps!

 

[MurrayMyInspiration]

Time Spiral, its time to get your *** up to 4.5. Too much time spent on making quality posts. With your knowledge you should be moving up a level! You know what it takes, now get out there and train

 

[TimeSpiral]

Time Spiral, its time to get your *** up to 4.5. Too much time spent on making quality posts. With your knowledge you should be moving up a level! You know what it takes, now get out there and train

Thanks, MMI.

Full time job, wife, baby, baby two on the way ... I play competitively as often as I can, and over the years I may move up or down. The goal at the moment, "Improve my tennis and win matches," in that order.

 

[dknotty]

Please don't make sarcastic posts on serious threads.

Just put MMI on your ignore list. He's on mine as nothing he carps about has any value.

 

[MurrayMyInspiration]

Just put MMI on your ignore list. He's on mine as nothing he carps about has any value.

Funny how only today somebody said I gave wonderful advice to BallinBob!

 

[5263]

Scenario:
Running around the backhand and hitting an "inside out" forehand crosscourt
or an "inside in" forehand down the line.

For both of these shots I hit the inside of the ball (that's why it is referred to as "inside")-- the only difference is that on the inside-out forehand I think of contacting the ball a bit later than inside-in, but I don't feel much difference in the follow-through between the two shots.

Why is it referred to as "inside-in" vs "inside-out"?

I think your idea of why it is inside & also SA's explanation are both fine for why it is INSIDE.

As to the second part, the intent would fit with the same type idea, as the I/O would have the intent of giving your opponent an outside ball to handle. I know 40 yrs ago when I used to hit it, I was was thinking I was hitting the inside of the ball (as you said) out very wide to the Bh angle, hence "outside", but imo what SA says seems better.

The big advantage of running around the Bh is that you can be very aggressive with the I/O shot without hurting your coverage or you can go strong to I/I if it looks open...which puts them on the move to try to cover it...giving you time to recover for your coverage as well...all the while hitting the safer inside ball with what is normally the stronger stroke for most players.

 

[TimeSpiral]

I think your idea of why it is inside & also SA's explanation are both fine for why it is INSIDE.

As to the second part, the intent would fit with the same type idea, as the I/O would have the intent of giving your opponent an outside ball to handle. I know 40 yrs ago when I used to hit it, I was was thinking I was hitting the inside of the ball (as you said) out very wide to the Bh angle, hence "outside", but imo what SA says seems better.

The big advantage of running around the Bh is that you can be very aggressive with the I/O shot without hurting your coverage or you can go strong to I/I if it looks open...which puts them on the move to try to cover it...giving you time to recover for your coverage as well...all the while hitting the safer inside ball with what is normally the stronger stroke for most players.

I'd push back here.

Running around the BH and playing the IO FH is trading good court position for potential aggression. You don't get both advantages with that shot. If you don't do enough with the IO FH you are out of position to return a DTL return.

 

[Chas Tennis]

As with all the tennis terms that are not well defined except by usage, there are different understandings. I was confused by the term and asked my former tennis instructor.

He described this -

inside-out forehand for a right handed player

"inside" refers to the contact point on the back of the ball, for a right handed player the "inside" contact point is the left-back side of the ball (instead of the more natural forehand contact point more on the back or right-back side of the ball).

"out" refers to directing the ball to the right for a RH player. (instead of the more natural/common forehand to the left).

When I tried contacting the ball on the left side for the forehand, I found that it was a new shot for me. I hit some very good inside-out forehands for a time but did not stick with it enough to make it a strong shot for me. I believe that it's probably more positioning to the ball than stroke modification. ?

It's an especially good option for a short set up in the center of the court if you are able to contact that left half of the ball and drive it to the backhand side of the court.

Usage of the term varies but I learned a new shot using this clear definition from my instructor.

 

[TimeSpiral]

As with all the tennis terms that are not well defined except by usage, there are different understandings. I was confused by the term and asked my former tennis instructor.

He described this -

inside-out forehand for a right handed player

"inside" refers to the contact point on the back of the ball, for a right handed player the contact point is the left-back side of the ball (instead of the more natural forehand contact point more on the back or right-back side of the ball).

"out" refers to directing the ball to the right for a RH player. (instead of the more natural/common forehand to the left).

When I tried contacting the ball on the left side for the forehand, I found that it was a new shot for me. I hit some very good inside-out forehands for a time but did not stick with it enough to make it a strong shot for me. I believe that it's probably more positioning to the ball than stroke modification. ?

It's an especially good option for a short set up in the center of the court if you are able to contact that left half of the ball and drive it to the backhand side of the court.

Usage of the term varies but I learned a new shot using this clear definition from my instructor.

Different paths up the same mountain, for sure. Very cool that the instruction was semi-effective!

Knowing when to play the inside ball is critical to it's efficacy. I'm concerned that you've all but abandoned the shot, because the inside position is one of the most powerful positions in men's tennis. When and under what circumstances you play the IO FH is largely a style preference, but there are some general guidelines: When you're in your standard BH recovery position, expecting a backhand return from your opponent, this is your opportunity to play the inside ball. If your opponent does not hit a good enough angle (sometimes called "finding your backhand") then you can take the same amount of steps you would to hit a regular backhand, but instead be in a FH position. Geometrically, sending the inside ball "out" to the opponents forehand is the same as hitting a FH back to your opponent's forehand. The only thing that is different is your body position and swing path relative to the court. If you're in the correct position, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to hit the IO FH with as much authority as a standard Outside CC FH.

But the inside position is more nuanced than that, which again is largely a matter of style. For instance, some players like to play the inside ball in a wide open position. The benefit here is both disguise and angle options, but playing this ball with an open position definitely changes the stroke dynamics when compared to an outside FH CC shot.

When you typically don't want to play the IO FH:

• If you're opponent hits a pretty decent angle to your BH. You're going to have to do a lot of running to get into that position, and then when you hit the ball you're essentially forced into a tight angle, which could draw an error, or a DTL shot which has to be a winner or a net approach.
• If the ball is coming in too low, or has a ton of slice on it. This is skill-based, but when first experimenting with this position, it's probably best to BH rally these balls.
• If you're opponent is cheating over to his BH corner because he called you on your inside position. In this case, there is no reason to go right back at him and give him the easy pass DTL. Change direction, go down the line, and make him pass you with an OTR CC FH.

Hope this helps!

 

[Chas Tennis]

Analysis of the inside-in and inside-out forehand strokes. Tennisoxygen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHduFqJ-Diw

Superimposed videos of each stroke. See especially 10:40, contact of ball for inside-in and inside-out.

See the balls of each stroke leave the racket around 11:35 - on . Does this "out" and "in" of the balls, as shown separating from the player, account for the terminology?

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I think your idea of why it is inside & also SA's explanation are both fine for why it is INSIDE...

While most or many I/O shots are hit on the inside of the ball. it is not an absolute requirement. One can run around and hit an I/O forehand and hit the back of the ball or the outside of the ball. This can be done accidently or on purpose. These would still be I/O shots.

Conversely, inside-in shots are often hit on the back or outside of the ball (but can be hit sometimes on the inside of the ball).

I will address something brought up by TS in my next post.

 

[TimeSpiral]

Snip!

See the balls of each stroke leave the racket around 11:35 - on . Does this "out" and "in" of the balls, as shown separating from the player, account for the terminology?

Frankly, in my opinion, the "in and out" qualifiers are misnomers. They're easy to say and easy to understand what the commentator or coach intends, and so they stuck. Another example would be the half-volley. It's a misnomer, but everyone knows what it means.

They would be more accurate referred as:

1. Outside cross court (O [SHOT] CC)
2. Outside down the line (O [SHOT] DTL)
3. Inside cross court (I [SHOT] CC)
4. Inside down the line (I [SHOT] DTL)

When someone strikes a FH CC, nobody EVER refers to that as an "outside in" ball, because that's just ridiculous sounding. These terms stuck because they are easy to say and communicate effectively enough (although tennis commentary in general is completely horrible for new spectators).

 

[Chas Tennis]

The terminology is, as usual, screwed up. But perhaps not to a knowledgeable population of players and coaches who hear and use the terms frequently.

It seems to me that the inside out forehand is often hit from the center of the court, as a deceptive shot. I have trouble understanding the 'down the line' & 'cross court' terminology for shots hit in the center of the court. I imagine that if your look the terms up on the internet you will find 10,000 descriptions where the down the line and crosscourt shots are hit from players always in the corners.

 

[TimeSpiral]

The terminology is, as usual, screwed up. But perhaps not to a knowledgeable population of players and coaches who hear and use the terms frequently.

It seems to me that the inside out forehand is used often hit from the center of the court, as a deceptive shot. I have trouble understanding the 'down the line' & 'cross court' terminology for shots hit in the center of the court. I imagine that if your look the terms up on the internet you will find 10,000 descriptions where the balls are hit from players always in the corners.

Ball hit from the center of the court are usually just called "put aways," or something to that effect.

Unless you're talking about the center of the court at or behind the baseline, then the terms stay the same: FH to FH is cross court, FH to BH is DTL (even though both shots are angled to the corners from the center).

 

[rufus_smith]

I'm no expert but I thought it had to do with the court sidelines. Balls that are hit so they will travel mostly inside the sidelines are "inside" balls. Balls hit so that they will cross the sidelines early are called "outside" balls. An "inside-out" hit is changing the direction of an "inside" ball to go "outside". An "inside-in" hit keeps an "inside" ball within the sidelines.

A run-around "inside-in" forehand would mean using a forehand to hit an inside ball that is hit to the players BH side so that it stays within (inside) the court sidelines.

 

[Ash_Smith]

I'm pretty sure it came from tennis commentary. When players started hitting forehands cross court from the backhand corner commentators had to come up with a phrase to describe it, so it was sort of like "an inside-out" shot. I'm guessing it developed from there and was adopted by the community.

Just hypothesising.

 

[TimothyO]

I wonder if these shot directions are applicable to recreational levels (4 and below). It seems like you could just redirect the ball anywhere you like. The only thing I need to keep in mind is NOT to do this: from a corner, hit the ball to them where they do not have to run. They will redirect the ball to my other corner and I'm dead.

I play at that level and once I learned about the Wardlaw Directionals tennis became so much easier for me. My game improved so much that I don't understand why it's not taught right up there with basic strokes.

I understand your point that at 4 and below we're not seeing consistent massive pace. But the directionals will provide two key benefits:

1. Outside cross-court shot: hitting over low part of net and on longest diagonal improves percentages.

2. Inside straight-ahead: hitting over lower part of net improves percentages.

In both cases the angle of impact still applies, even if at a lower pace than higher levels.

More importantly, by following the directionals I learned to hit with more pace confidently because more of my shots landed in. Previously, in the absence of this knowledge, I would make foolish choices like hitting hard DTL on an outside shot which means high part of net, shortest part of court, and just inches from the sideline, often off of incoming cross-court shots which meant I was also trying to change direction (lots of low-mid level male rec players try this shot...which is why we suck).

By making positioning, movement, anticipation, and shot selection so easy directionals make stroke production more confident, consistent, precise, deeper, and faster paced.

NOTE:
the terms inside and outside refer to which hand your hitting with relative to the sidelines. An outside shot is made from your hand closest to a sideline. An inside shot is made from your hand towards the middle of the court. For a righty on the ad side outside is a BH and inside is a FH...on the deuce side inside is BH is inside and FH is outside. So...

AD COURT | DEUCE COURT
OBH...IFH..|.....IBH....OFH

So an inside-out FH is a forehand hit from the ad court cross-court to the opponent's outside BH.

Also note that there are shades of gray here. If you're standing in the center of the ad court it's pretty clear that for a righty a BH is an outside shot and should be returned cross-court and a FH is an inside shot and should be returned straight ahead (NOT down-the-line but straight ahead). If positioned in the precise middle of the court you technically have only outside shots but you're freer to change to direction given the likely angle of impact.

 

[rh310]

I do not believe that the the terms, inside-out and inside-in, refer to parts or sides of the ball. Instead, it refers to the path/direction of the ball with respect to the player who is going to play the ball. This terminology is consistent with the Wardlaw Directionals.

An "outside" shot is a ball that is directed away from you by your opponent. An outside ball usually, but not always, crosses in front of you. Most crosscourt shots are outside shots.

An "inside" shot is one that moves into your body (or parallel to you). When you run around a shot to your backhand side to hit a forehand, you are effectively turning (what would be) an outside shot to backhand and making it an inside shot to your forehand. "Inside-out" means that you are playing an inside ball and hitting it away from your opponent (an outside shot for them). With an inside-in shot, you take the ball as an inside shot and direct it down-the-line (more or less) so that it is (pretty much) parallel to your opponent.

In the image on the left, the players are hitting outside backhands to each other. In the image on the right, player A (at the bottom) hits a forehand to the inside of player B. Player B hits an inside backhand to the outside (backhand side) of player A.

Thank you thank you thank you. That "it's called 'inside' because I hit the inside of the ball" comment triggered an immediate reply from me, but I decided to check to see if someone else had already done so.

 

[Chas Tennis]

FYB video on inside out forehand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqfCdnoJBS4

Seems like a different usage than the following video analysis, which agrees with the back of the ball interpretation of my tennis instructor. The face of the racket contacts the ball at a different angle as discussed - it must then contact the closer side of the back.

Analysis of the inside-in and inside-out forehand strokes. Tennisoxygen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHduFqJ-Diw

Superimposed videos of each stroke. See especially 10:40, contact of ball for inside-in and inside-out.

See the balls of each stroke leave the racket around 11:35 - on . Does this "out" and "in" of the balls, as shown separating from the player, account for the terminology?

I've decided that I won't use the term without explaining what I intend or interpret what someone else intends when they use the term "inside-out forehand". I think that the usage varies among people genuinely trying to discuss the game.

As an experiment, hit deliberately the back of the ball well on the side closer to you, the left side for a right handed player, and see if it doesn't seem like different shot.

The Words of Tennis

 

[degrease]

Funny how many responses for a question that has one right answer rather than one on opinion i.e who better player etc...

a ball that crosses the plane of the body is an "outside" shot such as two righties cross court forehand rally. An "inside" shot where it does not cross plane of body is easier to control and change direction etc.

Someone asked is it relevent for a lower level player? Well we all avoid trying to set opponents up for a big forehand on the ad side for obvious reason

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Analysis of the inside-in and inside-out forehand strokes. Tennisoxygen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHduFqJ-Diw

... See the balls of each stroke leave the racket around 11:35 - on . Does this "out" and "in" of the balls, as shown separating from the player, account for the terminology?

Don't see how this accounts for the terminology. Christophe indicates that Federer hit the inside of the ball for his I/O forehand. This does make for a more effective I/O shot. One could take the ball in a similar manner but, with a slightly different contact point, hit the ball on the back of the ball or even the outside of the ball and still direct the ball in the same direction as the I/O shot shown. Would we not still refer to this as an I/O shot? If not, then what would you call it.

Christophe does not say that the terminology is derived from the fact that Roger hits the inside of the ball. If you argue that an I/O is labeled as such because the inside of the is contacted, then how do you account for the inside-in terminology where the ball is hit on the outside of the ball on this video.

... SA suggests that the inside-out ball is dependent on whether or not your opponent takes the ball as an outside shot. I don't believe this to be the case, because commentators and spectators and players alike will still refer to the inside-out shot as just that, regardless of whether or not their opponent runs around the shot and takes it as an inside ball themselves. Right?

The inside-in ball is considered the "easier ball to hit" and is often the more aggressive or attacking of the two shot types, but by SA's description, when hitting an inside in shot you're essentially giving your opponent an inside ball. Why would you want to do that if the inside ball is desirable? (I'm being rhetorical here)...

Not exactly sure what you are saying in the 1st paragraph here. The shot that we call an I/O shot is a shot that player A takes as an inside shot. He directs the ball to the backhand side (assuming a righty) intending it as an outside BH shot for player B. Player B might be able to run around this shot to hit a inside FH rather than an outside BH. However, this does not change the fact that player A had hit a shot that was directed to player B's BH (outside). Hence we refer to player A's shot as I/O.

As for your 2nd point... While inside shots are often desirable, they are not always so. If player A jams player B with an inside shot to the FH, player B might be handcuffed to the point where they are presented with an undesirable shot. Another case is when an inside-in shot is hit to the open court. Usually, when player A chose the I/I option, player B is somewhat to the other side of the center mark (which is expected since they probably just hit a x-court shot). If player A has run around to hit an inside shot, player's B x-court shot was probably a bit short (or less than idea). If player A lines up to hit the I/O shot, they usually pin player B to that side leaving the other corner open. Player A will sometimes hit the I/I shot when they deem is advantageous to do so.

In reality, the I/I FH shot that player A hits toward player B's FH corner might actually be angled to such an extent that it is not really an inside shot for player B. Instead of moving parallel to the sideline, player A's shot might diverge (away) somewhat from player B. Even tho' this would be an outside FH for player B, we still refer to player A's shot as I/I since it is considered (more-or-less) down the line.

...a ball that crosses the plane of the body is an "outside" shot such as two righties cross court forehand rally. An "inside" shot where it does not cross plane of body is easier to control and change direction etc...

This is true for the most part. I had indicated in post #3, that an outside ball usually crosses in front of the body. Consider, however, a ball that is hit from directly across from you. Say that player A's contact point is pretty much right in front of player B. If player A directs the ball in either direction away from play B, then player B must play an outside shot to either their FH or their BH. However, neither of these outside shots will technically will cross in front of player B's body. Yes, I do realize that this is a fine point that I am putting on this -- no flaming required.

In the situation I set up above, player A might direct the ball right at player B. In this case player B can take a step or 2 in either direction and essentially hit either an inside FH or an inside BH.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Don't see how this accounts for the terminology. Christophe indicates that Federer hit the inside of the ball for his I/O forehand. This does make for a more effective I/O shot. One could take the ball in a similar manner but, with a slightly different contact point, hit the ball on the back of the ball or even the outside of the ball and still direct the ball in the same direction as the I/O shot shown. Would we not still refer to this as an I/O shot? If not, then what would you call it.

Christophe does not say that the terminology is derived from the fact that Roger hits the inside of the ball. If you argue that an I/O is labeled as such because the inside of the is contacted, then how do you account for the inside-in terminology where the ball is hit on the outside of the ball on this video.
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I now see that I misunderstood what Christophe meant by "inside". At about 4:51 he says exactly what he means on the inside-in and inside-out forehands as far as where the ball is contacted. On the inside-out, it is the side of the ball closest to the player. On the inside-in it is the side farther away from the player, the outside of the ball. The term INSIDE does not refer to the back of the ball in that video. That makes my interpretation of "inside" inconsistent and wrong for his video and generally. Sorry that I was sloppy and missed that.