What's the matter with Safin?

rafa_prestige89 · May 9, 2007

He's not playing a bad tennis, he seems to be in a good shape, but he just can't win matches that he had good chances...
In Monte-Carlo he lost match points, today he served for the 2nd set, but he is not achieving anything....

vkartikv · May 9, 2007

Well atleast he is being consistently mercurial

armand · May 9, 2007

rafa_prestige89 said:
What's the matter with Safin?

Uh, we're have you been for the last 7 years?

drakulie · May 9, 2007

Her is an amazingly talented player that unfortunately is also an amazingly crazy headcase.

aramis · May 9, 2007

Yes, he's a headcase, but normally Safin can play really good tennis for a few months every year before going embarking on his mental adventures. This usually happens in the indoor season. But now he can't play anywhere. I really think the knee problem is more serious than he made it sound. His movement is really sloppy from what I can see.

ShcMad · May 9, 2007

rafa_prestige89 said:
He's not playing a bad tennis, he seems to be in a good shape, but he just can't win matches that he had good chances...
In Monte-Carlo he lost match points, today he served for the 2nd set, but he is not achieving anything....

Safin has always been the nutcase that he is. However, when watching today's match against Davydenko, I noticed that his game didn't look nearly as powerful as in 2004/2005. Maybe it's the clay that makes everything look slow. Still, I remember the days when Safin had a massive 1st serve and a nasty 2nd serve. Today, his 1st serve was basically nonexistent. His 2nd serve was just okay. The thing that surprised me was Safin's 1st serves didn't even have a lot of pace, but they weren't going in the service box.

I don't know what it is, but after that year-long break he had due to the knee, I feel like his physical side of the game has been deteriorating.

SoBad · May 9, 2007

ShcMad said:
The thing that surprised me was Safin's 1st serves didn't even have a lot of pace, but they weren't going in the service box.

That very fact was apparently a surprise to Safin himself, as he made a loud comment to that effect toward the end of the first set tiebreak, as I recall.

The good thing is, now he doesn't have to bother with the rest of Rome, so he can rest, train and prepare to win the French.

PrinceO3TourOS · May 9, 2007

I think the question is What's the matter with Safin's brain? :lol:
It's just like Gaudio, both of them are crazy, they have a fatal weak point: Low Mind Control. Federer and Nadal are Masters of Sport Mind Control...plus the talent and good training: that's a winning combination

Nadal_Freak · May 9, 2007

drakulie said:
Her is an amazingly talented player that unfortunately is also an amazingly crazy headcase.

Yeah she is an amazing player.

tennis_hand · May 9, 2007

I think he is so much used to the losing ways, and just don't wanna try extra hard to win. Losing can be addictive too. It makes you give up easily, go back to hotel and have a bath early.

Deleted member 3771 · May 9, 2007

I think his shots are a bit over rated. He somehow escaped in the Australian open vs Dudi Sela. But Sela was outhitting him in every way before the rain saved him. Safin's Serve is what saves him. Can you imagine if Hewitt and Safin swapped serves.

SoBad · May 9, 2007

TheNatural said:
I think his shots are a bit over rated. He somehow escaped in the Australian open vs Dudi Sela. But Sela was outhitting him in every way before the rain saved him. Safin's Serve is what saves him. Can you imagine if Hewitt and Safin swapped serves.

And why are you using old doctored photographs to support your invalid remarks about Safin's current play?

Deleted member 3771 · May 9, 2007

what do you mean 'doctored photo'. Its just a general photo of Safin. Is that illegal?Are you the photo police or something?

His ground game just doesnt look as imposing as it used to. His Game versus Dudi was an example of his ground game not being as good as it once was.

SoBad said:
And why are you using old doctored photographs to support your invalid remarks about Safin's current play?

SoBad · May 9, 2007

TheNatural said:
what do you mean 'doctored photo'. Its just a general photo of Safin. Is that illegal?Are you the photo police or something?

His ground game just doesnt look as imposing as it used to. His Game versus Dudi was an example of his ground game not being as good as it once was.

Yes, I am photo police. We're in the euroclay season now and he is preparing for his first Fo title. Some hardcourt photo from the 80's that you manipulated to make him look bad is hardly appropriate in this discussion.

tkauffm · May 9, 2007

yes, that photo of safin in this thread about safin is highly inappropriate

SoBad · May 9, 2007

tkauffm said:
yes, that photo of safin in this thread about safin is highly inappropriate

Thanks - good post.

Deleted member 3771 · May 9, 2007

It seems you've lost the plot, just like Safin in that photo. Who cares what season it is Seeing an image of him losing the plot is entertaining viewing. So enjoy.

The photo is undoctored, (his jaw and mouth really are that big) from his AO match versus Dudi Sela.

Theres the link.

http://www.smh.com.au/ftimages/2007/01/17/1168709832398.html

I just read others that are seeing him play now mentioning his knee issues and movement. I guess that would be why his game isnt as formidable now.

SoBad said:
Yes, I am photo police. We're in the euroclay season now and he is preparing for his first Fo title. Some hardcourt photo from the 80's that you manipulated to make him look bad is hardly appropriate in this discussion.

tkauffm · May 9, 2007

In response to what's wrong with Safin, I just don't think he really gives a sh**. Ever since that knee surgery he just lost something. Who knows though, maybe he'll suck until 2009 and then win another slam. That seems to be his style

SoBad · May 10, 2007

welcome2petrkordaland · May 10, 2007

i agree with aramis. safin's knee must be worse off than we know. after watching the entire davydenko match, i'd say overall his movement seems to be the shakiest thing about his game. and his serve is not what it used to be. very disappointing.

tenniko · May 10, 2007

welcome2petrkordaland said:
i agree with aramis. safin's knee must be worse off than we know. after watching the entire davydenko match, i'd say overall his movement seems to be the shakiest thing about his game. and his serve is not what it used to be. very disappointing.

Although I like Safin (I was staying up to watch his opener in Rome and suffered consequences dearly...), I do think that his knee is the killer, and unless there's some awesome rehab program and/or he is willing to push himself to the limits of his knees (Davis Cup), he's not much of a presence on the courts as much as he used to.

You need a lot of stability in legs to produce those hard groundies that Safin is known for. Without his legs, Safin, already tall, can't move around the courts well, and thus can't get to the ball on time and/or needs to put less stress on the legs.

Those of you who've had leg injuries would understand what Safin must be going through. (Even with just sore legs, you know your game suffers).

edit: You also need legs for your serves.

thetruthshallsetyoufree · May 10, 2007

SoBad said:
Yes, I am photo police. We're in the euroclay season now and he is preparing for his first Fo title. Some hardcourt photo from the 80's that you manipulated to make him look bad is hardly appropriate in this discussion.

safin didnt even turn pro til '97. what are you talking about.

SoBad · May 10, 2007

thetruthshallsetyoufree said:
safin didnt even turn pro til '97. what are you talking about.

That's exactly why it is inappropriate to post a pre-pro photograph to support an argument relating to his 2007 performance.

thetruthshallsetyoufree · May 10, 2007

SoBad said:
That's exactly why it is inappropriate to post a pre-pro photograph to support an argument relating to his 2007 performance.

even if the photo was from 1989, the last year of the 80's, he would have been 9 years old in 1989. (born in '80). he doesnt look quite like 9 years old there. boy he sure would have to have started shaving at an early age.

SoBad · May 10, 2007

thetruthshallsetyoufree said:
even if the photo was from 1989, the last year of the 80's, he would have been 9 years old in 1989. (born in '80). he doesnt look quite like 9 years old there. boy he sure would have to have started shaving at an early age.

Who said "80's" - where do you get that from?

thetruthshallsetyoufree · May 10, 2007

SoBad said:
Who said "80's" - where do you get that from?

i got from you. go back to your previous posts. or mine for that matter. i quoted you.

SoBad · May 10, 2007

thetruthshallsetyoufree said:
i got from you. go back to your previous posts. or mine for that matter. i quoted you.

I did go back and could not find it, that's why I asked.

thetruthshallsetyoufree · May 10, 2007

SoBad said:
Yes, I am photo police. We're in the euroclay season now and he is preparing for his first Fo title. Some hardcourt photo from the 80's that you manipulated to make him look bad is hardly appropriate in this discussion.

right here.

SoBad · May 10, 2007

thetruthshallsetyoufree said:
right here.

I see, that was figurative speech, suggesting that the photograph was not a current one.

War Safin! · May 10, 2007

When people say Safin is 'nuts' or 'crazy'...perhaps he just has little or no confidence left from not winning big matches.
Even back in his 2001 US Open semi-final with Sampras, the commentators were saying that his mental-game was 'fragile'.

IMO, Safin is going to follow the same path that Henman has been for the last 3-4 seasons....

thetruthshallsetyoufree · May 10, 2007

SoBad said:
I see, that was figurative speech, suggesting that the photograph was not a current one.

ahhhh.

doesnt matter what year the photo is from, he is a headcase in all of them. dont get me wrong i love safin. and i think he is one of the cooler guys out there. he signed autographs for quite a while the couple of times i saw him. took a picture of him and one of my friends. much nicer than haas or nadal.

but not too often do you see a player put their racquet through their chair. saw him do that at...the french? last year? i think.

pound cat · May 10, 2007

And here's what Safin says about his current state

Safin Feeling low Eurosport

More stories
Rome Masters draw & resultsRussian star Marat Safin has admitted that a lack of confidence is making it difficult for him to regain his best form.

Safin came back from a set down to beat American qualifier Amer Delic in three sets to reach the second round of the Rome Masters on Tuesday.

It was just the second match that the former world number one - now ranked 26th - has won since the end of February, when he reached the last four of the International Series event in Las Vegas.

"I've just had difficult months," Safin told Tennis News on Tuesday. "A lot of difficult matches that slipped away from just in front of me.

"It was difficult to play without the confidence, because every person makes you play and every guy wants to beat you.

"They see you are not playing 100% and you're not feeling well on the courts, so there's a good chance for them to beat me. And every time I lose the confidence is not there.

"It has kind of put me in a difficult position because, especially on clay, it's very tough to play without confidence because you have to run a lot and make sure you play all the balls. "It's tough, because the courts start to look small and the ball very small."

War Safin! · May 10, 2007

I think if we say that a tennis-player's absolute peak lasts between 5-8 years, then Safin's are pretty much gone.
However, after his form at the end of last season, going from #104 to #26, I certainly didn't expect a repeat of his bad form a 2nd-time around....

Gugafan_Redux · May 10, 2007

I don't know about the knee theory. Didn't he have a huge DC win early this year? Seems to be a matter of caring.

When he retires, that'll be him and Agassi and Guga and Ferrero and Rafter and Goran all retired and/or sucking. All the great personalities (okay, maybe not Ferrero so much) gone from the game. Yeah, so Baghdatis has big teeth. Big teeth do not make for personality.

rafa_prestige89 · May 10, 2007

I really don't think that he has lost his movimentation after his stop
For exempla, last year, when he came back after the tennis break he took, he won some really good matches, against tough players, such as Davydenko, Baghdatis, Soderling, Moya and even a 5th set win over Nalbandian in the Us Open...he also lost hard matches only in final sets against Haas(in US Open and Paris)...I mean you can't win those kind of matches, specially against Nalbandian in a 5th set, if you are not in great shape and moving well...and what about his Davis Cup perfect win against Mathieu, on clay, this year??
I just don't think that his physical condition is the problem...

tenniko · May 10, 2007

rafa_prestige89 said:
I really don't think that he has lost his movimentation after his stop
For exempla, last year, when he came back after the tennis break he took, he won some really good matches, against tough players, such as Davydenko, Baghdatis, Soderling, Moya and even a 5th set win over Nalbandian in the Us Open...he also lost hard matches only in final sets against Haas(in US Open and Paris)...I mean you can't win those kind of matches, specially against Nalbandian in a 5th set, if you are not in great shape and moving well...and what about his Davis Cup perfect win against Mathieu, on clay, this year??
I just don't think that his physical condition is the problem...

Well, if he decides to stay tough in the head department, I'm sure he could perform at the same level as the dominating Safin. However, when you are not at your physical best, your mentality is a lot more fragile.

Think about how much more one snaps or gets frustrated when one is physically tired.

For example, IF Sampras returned to the tour, I'm sure he would want to win and compete as much as anybody else (and maybe more than anyone), but if his body doesn't hold up, then he'll get frustrated and stuff, you know?

If you are not moving and hitting as well as you used to and is losing to your rival who you used to beat constantly, won't you get pissed?

It's not just the matter of head or body. It USED to be mainly head problem when he was young, but as injuries and age gets to him, it will be more of a physical challenge.

pound cat · May 11, 2007

tenniko said:
Well, if he decides to stay tough in the head department, I'm sure he could perform at the same level as the dominating Safin. However, when you are not at your physical best, your mentality is a lot more fragile.

Think about how much more one snaps or gets frustrated when one is physically tired.

For example, IF Sampras returned to the tour, I'm sure he would want to win and compete as much as anybody else (and maybe more than anyone), but if his body doesn't hold up, then he'll get frustrated and stuff, you know?

If you are not moving and hitting as well as you used to and is losing to your rival who you used to beat constantly, won't you get pissed?

It's not just the matter of head or body. It USED to be mainly head problem when he was young, but as injuries and age gets to him, it will be more of a physical challenge.

I think you completely understand what's going on with Marat. Well thought out and well said.

Can I post this on the Safinator message board with credit to you of course? Thanks.

rafa_prestige89 · May 11, 2007

But he won tough matches last year, where his physical condition was tested...

tkramer15 · May 11, 2007

I've watched several of his matches this year. The story for Safin this year seems to be that he finds a way to lose. He controlled the second set against Davydenko and served for it, but blew several set points before Davydenko won the final three games. Obviously he fell apart similarly in Monte Carlo against Vliegen. I watched him lose in person on the grandstand at Miami to Lopez in two close sets. Safin appeared to be the better player for much of the match, but simply could not close out games or consolidate breaks. I'll admit that in most of those occasions, Safin didn't serve particularly well. He still hits the ball cleanly, but often gets frustrated in long rallies and goes for too much resulting in an error. Sometimes, I feel like he needs to scale back the pace in favor of a little more topspin. His shots just don't have much margin for error, and when he's struggling he can make a slew of mistakes.

z-money · May 11, 2007

SoBad said:

ok man you are starting to freak me out

rafa_prestige89 · May 11, 2007

LoL
What's the meaning of that pic?

tenniko · May 13, 2007

pound cat said:
I think you completely understand what's going on with Marat. Well thought out and well said.

Can I post this on the Safinator message board with credit to you of course? Thanks.

Sure, go ahead.

People don't realize what an injury (injuries) do to your game. I've had rotator cuff and ankle injuries, and I had to basically re-design my service game, since I could no longer hit twist serves (and when that's been a weapon in your game, it's very frustrating) and run as fast.

Just to people out there thinking Safin is a head case, sure, Safin might be not as mentally tough as some pros. But pros are people too, and when they get injured, it affects their game greatly as they rely on their physical abilities (after all, you don't play tennis with just a good mentality).

Ted Ghost Shackley · May 13, 2007

Marat Safin's mom was a great coach, but very demanding. I don't think Marat has much fun playing the game; it is a job. Marat and his little sister have a great life playing tennis and making a good living, but they did not choose the sport or ever play for fun.

Marat worked so hard to get to where he is now and probably wants to have some fun and enjoy the fruits of his labour. He's very smart and needs more than tennis.

Champions like Sampras live for titles, but guys like Safin work to live. What would you take, Daria Zhukova (an old girlfriend) or a trophy in the closet? My view is that Marat views the ATP as a job and I wish him the best of luck.

War Safin! · May 14, 2007

Ted Ghost Shackley said:
Marat Safin's mom was a great coach, but very demanding. I don't think Marat has much fun playing the game; it is a job. Marat and his little sister have a great life playing tennis and making a good living, but they did not choose the sport or ever play for fun.

Marat worked so hard to get to where he is now and probably wants to have some fun and enjoy the fruits of his labour. He's very smart and needs more than tennis.

Champions like Sampras live for titles, but guys like Safin work to live. What would you take, Daria Zhukova (an old girlfriend) or a trophy in the closet? My view is that Marat views the ATP as a job and I wish him the best of luck.

I predict Safin's going far in the Hamburg Masters and French Open.

rafa_prestige89 · May 14, 2007

Me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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