NBA 2019-20: Fresh Champs, Fresh Faces, Fresh Places!

NonP

NonP

Legend
donquijote said:
Amazing Murray, this kid has matured so much and became a true leader. Jokic is only 2nd to Giannis in the best big man category.
What a treat to watch this duo.
Now sweep the LA please.
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Not 2nd, the Joker is even better. Giannis' superior athleticism may give him the edge in defense but Jokic makes the most out of his limited tools, and his infinitely more versatile offense gives him more options to stretch out his opponents. Put another way swap him with Giannis and the Bucks most likely win more than one game vs. the Heat, if not win the whole series (though I doubt it - Spo would outsmart Bud).

stringertom said:
You want to be third man in? Great! Let’s drop the gloves! You were on ignore a long time ago because of your long winded pontifications about just about anything. Here we go again! Time for some of your “housekeeping”, I guess? Can’t wait for another rant with your trademark research! Too much time on your hands, dude!

How can you know if don q says hate in jest? And, even if so, how is it OK to throw that four letter word around lightly, especially when we have teenage wingnuts arming themselves with AR15s and crossing state lines to commit lethal acts against protestors? There’s no place in this world for “hating” a total stranger for comments made 10 years ago in public to reporters about the outcome of a game and call the coach a LIAR for expressing his opinion.

Because of zealots like you and don q, there is no point talking about basketball anymore on this forum. Y’all go enjoy your blind ignorance together. Misery loves company! You’re a great couple!
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Your petty petulance is exceed only by your lack of self-awareness. You're the one who used the word "hate" when I dared criticize your darling for letting this series slip away, but I'm the "zealot" for gently pointing that out? JFC.

Also nobody gives a damn who you (or anyone really) have on ignore, and certainly no grown-up thinks "hate" in the context of sports (a juvenile word choice, yes, but apparently not when it's made by you) means the same thing when it's used to describe the dangerous behavior of racist nutjobs. Start acting your age before you fancy yourself qualified to lecture anyone on the difference between the real world and the world of entertainment.
 
stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
NonP said:
Not 2nd, the Joker is even better. Giannis' superior athleticism may give him the edge in defense but Jokic makes the most out of his limited tools, and his infinitely more versatile offense gives him more options to stretch out his opponents. Put another way swap him with Giannis and the Bucks most likely win more than one game vs. the Heat, if not win the whole series (though I doubt it - Spo would outsmart Bud).



Your petulance is exceed only by your lack of self-awareness. You're the one who used the word "hate" when I dared criticize your darling for letting this series slip away, but I'm the "zealot" for gently pointing that out? JFC.

Also nobody gives a damn who you (or anyone really) have on ignore, and certainly no grown-up thinks "hate" in the context of sports (a juvenile word choice, yes, but apparently not when it's made by you) means the same thing when it's used to describe the dangerous behavior of racist nutjobs. Start acting your age before you lecture anyone about the difference between the real world and the world of entertainment.
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Yes sir, housekeeper! Thanks for the lecture from your soapbox! It will make me a better man. Not! Now go sit in the sin bin for being third man in, windbag!
 
NonP

NonP

Legend
stringertom said:
Yes sir, housekeeper! Thanks for the lecture from your soapbox! It will make me a better man. Not! Now go sit in the sin bin for being third man in, windbag!
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giphy.gif
 
M

Midaso240

Legend
God damn, thought the Clippers still would have come through. Didn't think The Lakers were a championship team but looks like it's the probable outcome now
 
NonP

NonP

Legend
Midaso240 said:
God damn, thought the Clippers still would have come through. Didn't think The Lakers were a championship team but looks like it's the probable outcome now
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I wouldn't count out the Nuggets. We've been underestimating them all along and they may well surprise us again.

stringertom said:
You on Tinder:

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So this geriatric man-child thinks the "xxx... not!" routine is still funny or fresh and has now resorted to the equally inane guy-can't-score-on-Tinder joke. And that's not to mention the equally infantile chauvinism of judging a man by his sexual conquests.

But then I saw quite a bit of the latter from other supposedly grown-up (and self-proclaimed, of course) jocks in that Becker thread before it got yanked, so guess he can at least put up that I'm-just-as-dumb-as-other-middle-age-men defense.
 
clout

clout

Hall of Fame
Not a LeBron fan by any stretch, but imagine if LBJ played as poorly as Kawhi and PG did last night in the 4th quarter of an elimination game after already blowing a 3-1 lead to a huge underdog.....

....not only would this thread go bananas, but every sports person would be holding this against LeBron till the day he enters his grave lol
 
clout

clout

Hall of Fame
Dan Lobb said:
What if.....Leonard stays with Raptors, takes the four years large offer...do Raptors repeat this year? Probably yes.....
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Barring injuries, I can't see how they won't. A Kawhi-less Raps team went neck-to-neck with the Celtics through 7 so you throw Kawhi in there and the Raps take it in 6 at max. They'd be heavy favorites against the Heat and their year-long rivals will be none other than the Lakers. Although LAL has LeBron and AD I think the Raps with Kawhi along with their depth and defense could actually be enough to edge out the team from LA LA Land

Of course the Raps are much better with Kawhi but honestly, Kawhi was much better with the Raps as well
 
D

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
travlerajm said:
Probably the ball bounces 4 times off the rim and misses this time. Raptors needed a some lucky breaks and bounces last year. Kawhi’s luck ran out after he spurned the 416.
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Leonard looked good to me this post-season...however, his talents fit particularly well with the Raptors line-up, both last year and this year (if he had stayed), much better than with the Clippers line-up.
 
D

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
clout said:
Barring injuries, I can't see how they won't. A Kawhi-less Raps team went neck-to-neck with the Celtics through 7 so you throw Kawhi in there and the Raps take it in 6 at max. They'd be heavy favorites against the Heat and their year-long rivals will be none other than the Lakers. Although LAL has LeBron and AD I think the Raps with Kawhi along with their depth and defense could actually be enough to edge out the team from LA LA Land

Of course the Raps are much better with Kawhi but honestly, Kawhi was much better with the Raps as well
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That is exactly my analysis of the way things stood, Leonard was a perfect fit with the Raptors.

The reason he left was not money, the Raptors offered him much, much more than the other teams bidding, but because he wanted to go where he could play with George. In retrospect, I think that he would have been happier in Toronto for another two years, anyway.
 
T

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
Just read that Vegas is relieved the Clippers choked. 65% of all money bet to win the West was bet on the Mighty Clippers. The Lakers were second at 14%. No other team above 4%.
 
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G.O.A.T.
clout said:
Not a LeBron fan by any stretch, but imagine if LBJ played as poorly as Kawhi and PG did last night in the 4th quarter of an elimination game after already blowing a 3-1 lead to a huge underdog.....

....not only would this thread go bananas, but every sports person would be holding this against LeBron till the day he enters his grave lol
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Sure. He's held to a generally different standard.
 
T

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
Update from Vegas:
The Lakers are now heavily favored with 53% chance to win title.
The more interesting thing is that the 4 teams left standing are viewed by bettors as so-so offensively but the 4 best defensive teams in the NBA, based on defensive generic points favored.
 
-NN-

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
stringertom said:
He admittedly is slow and can’t jump six inches but he’s got basketball IQ through the roof. Jokic FTW!
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In the playoffs where teams are smarter, tougher and have the time to plan, the real level of a player can be exposed. The thresholds for performance are higher and the problems to solve are trickier, and two seasons in a row Giannis has been left wanting, not having a rounded and polished enough offensive skillset to deal with the obstacles teams have thrown at him. Now, this isn't to say he's not a great player, but then look at the case of Jokic. Nikola appears to not just get a bit better in the playoffs, but appears to elevate to another level in these elevated stakes! While Giannis is getting "clowned" in offense, Jokic is outright clowning, slicing, dicing and hypnotising defences. The Clippers looked utterly flummoxed against Jokic (and also Doncic).

So, I have to agree --- both elite players in this league, but I'd build around Jokic.
 
donquijote

donquijote

G.O.A.T.
Report: Kawhi Leonard told Raptors he didn’t think they were good enough to repeat

It shows that he did not have much respect for Nurse and his teammates and thought he could win anywhere with another superstar in the team.
maxresdefault.jpg
 
NonP

NonP

Legend
I'm guessing y'all have heard about this:


I could see Harrell snapping a tiny bit from his late grandma's death and Doc overusing him him against the Joker, but PG does come across as something of a divo. You can bet Kawhi the introvert wanted no part of it.

And speak of the devil, LOL:

donquijote said:
Report: Kawhi Leonard told Raptors he didn’t think they were good enough to repeat

It shows that he did not have much respect for Nurse and his teammates and thought he could win anywhere with another superstar in the team.
maxresdefault.jpg
Click to expand...

Here's the "report" if you're interested:

nba.nbcsports.com

Report: Kawhi Leonard told Raptors he didn't think they were good enough to repeat

Kawhi Leonard became the first superstar to switch teams immediately after winning a championship.
nba.nbcsports.com nba.nbcsports.com

I'll never be sold on Twitter as journalism, but if this rumor is true it does confirm what I'd suspected all along, namely that Kawhi "requested" Toronto trade for PG knowing they'd be unwilling to part with their assets, and when push came to shove he basically if diplomatically told 'em to take a hike. I don't even think he expected to get George at first, and chances are it was only when his free agency began to reach Decision-level pandemonium that he got to cajoling Paul personally by text.

Again I don't follow NBA trade rumors and this is pure speculation on my part. Guess more will be leaking in the coming days.

On to overdue replies:

Federer and Del Potro said:
This would be assuming the Lakers win, I suppose? Because the Clippers wouldn't really pose much of a size problem for Boston.


The Lakers however, yes, AD would be a real problem.
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This is obviously a moot point now, but Zubac alone has 4 inches on Theis and Kawhi's long wingspan gives the Clips extra length vs. the smallish Celts. Of course all that don't mean a thing if your team don't gel together.

Dan Lobb said:
What if.....Leonard stays with Raptors, takes the four years large offer...do Raptors repeat this year? Probably yes.....
Click to expand...

Your wishful thinking is getting pathological at this point, but no, I doubt it. This really was the 1st season Kawhi's team began as one of the preordained favorites and he would've been under the same pressure as part of the defending champs. And while I'd take Nurse over Doc it does seem that Kawhi never trusted his old mates all that much to begin with.

clout said:
Not a LeBron fan by any stretch, but imagine if LBJ played as poorly as Kawhi and PG did last night in the 4th quarter of an elimination game after already blowing a 3-1 lead to a huge underdog.....

....not only would this thread go bananas, but every sports person would be holding this against LeBron till the day he enters his grave lol
Click to expand...

Did you have a brain fart re: LBJ's 4th-quarter debacle throughout the Mavs-Heat finals? (Well, suppose you could say he was decent in game 1, but still.) Kawhi was nowhere near as embarrassing in this series. No doubt he turned in a stinker in #7 and deserves to be memed for the rest of his career, but a strong bounce back will stamp out much of the schadenfreude, just like LeBron's own title run following his disastrous 1st go.
 
T

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
OP has been quiet in this thread while he recovers from painful fan trauma.

I feel badly for repeatedly teasing about his paper tiger adopted team over the past year, so I pledge to follow through on my promise to treat for drinks (despite the choke) when the conference circuit gets back in the swing and I next find myself in Mickey world.

I am no stranger to fan pain from choking favorites. My 93-94 nba-best Sonics were Dikembe’d in the first round (and now I am teamless thanks to vindictive little man Stern), my 2001 116-win Mariners were exposed by the villainous Yankees (haven’t made playoffs since), and I have still yet to recover from my 2014-2015 Seahawks getting punked by Evil Bill’s routine protocol of sending a spy to record practice so that rookie CB Malcolm Butler knew exactly which play was coming.
 
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stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
travlerajm said:
OP has been quiet in this thread while he recovers from painful fan trauma.

I feel badly for repeatedly teasing about his paper tiger adopted team over the past year, so I pledge to follow through on my promise to treat for drinks (despite the choke) when the conference circuit gets back in the swing and I next find myself in Mickey world.

I am no stranger to fan pain from choking favorites. My 93-94 nba-best Sonics were Dikembe’d in the first round (and now I am teamless thanks to vindictive little man Stern), my 2001 116-win Mariners were exposed by the villainous Yankees (haven’t made playoffs since), and I have still yet to recover from my 2014-2015 Seahawks getting punked by Evil Bill’s routine protocol of sending a spy to record practice so that rookie CB Malcolm Butler knew exactly which play was coming.
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No, not from fan trauma over LAC. Other than picking against Denver, I’m happy they won with their two stars playing big with a great cast to support them. I’ll be pulling for them vs The Big LeBronskis.

I’ll let you guys enjoy the thread. I’m abstaining from it due to a couple of uncouth clueless pills. You can run next year’s thread; I won’t be commenting much at all.

Miami wins another close one for 2-0. Could easily be 0-2. Big plays by The Butler and fly Dragon fly were the difference down the stretch. Spoelstra is proving he doesn’t need superstar talents to relocate to South Beach to put a high quality squad on the floor. These guys have that Band of Brothers mentality and their obvious willingness to put in the work is letting them perform just that little bit better in crunch time.
 
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G.O.A.T.
stringertom said:
No, not from fan trauma over LAC. Other than picking against Denver, I’m happy they won with their two stars playing big with a great cast to support them. I’ll be pulling for them vs The Big LeBronskis.

I’ll let you guys enjoy the thread. I’m abstaining from it due to a couple of uncouth clueless pills. You can run next year’s thread; I won’t be commenting much at all.

Miami wins another close one for 2-0. Could easily be 0-2. Big plays by The Butler and fly Dragon fly were the difference down the stretch. Spoelstra is proving he doesn’t need superstar talents to relocate to South Beach to put a high quality squad on the floor. These guys have that Band of Brothers mentality and their obvious willingness to put in the work is letting them perform just that little bit better in crunch time.
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You can dedicate yourself to tennis juniors again. I heard the future of tennis is Italian - and not just one of them.
 
stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
-NN- said:
You can dedicate yourself to tennis juniors again. I heard the future of tennis is Italian - and not just one of them.
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I’ve been following Sinner since February’19 and Musetti once he started playing Challengers a few months later. Zeppieri is the next one to pick up on...bff of Musetti and left handed with offensive flair.

Success of Italian tennis is long overdue but they’re making up for the delay with a whole crew of good kids.
 
D

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
NonP said:
I'm guessing y'all have heard about this:


I could see Harrell snapping a tiny bit from his late grandma's death and Doc overusing him him against the Joker, but PG does come across as something of a divo. You can bet Kawhi the introvert wanted no part of it.

And speak of the devil, LOL:



Here's the "report" if you're interested:

nba.nbcsports.com

Report: Kawhi Leonard told Raptors he didn't think they were good enough to repeat

Kawhi Leonard became the first superstar to switch teams immediately after winning a championship.
nba.nbcsports.com nba.nbcsports.com

I'll never be sold on Twitter as journalism, but if this rumor is true it does confirm what I'd suspected all along, namely that Kawhi "requested" Toronto trade for PG knowing they'd be unwilling to part with their assets, and when push came to shove he basically if diplomatically told 'em to take a hike. I don't even think he expected to get George at first, and chances are it was only when his free agency began to reach Decision-level pandemonium that he got to cajoling Paul personally by text.

Again I don't follow NBA trade rumors and this is pure speculation on my part. Guess more will be leaking in the coming days.

On to overdue replies:



This is obviously a moot point now, but Zubac alone has 4 inches on Theis and Kawhi's long wingspan gives the Clips extra length vs. the smallish Celts. Of course all that don't mean a thing if your team don't gel together.



Your wishful thinking is getting pathological at this point, but no, I doubt it. This really was the 1st season Kawhi's team began as one of the preordained favorites and he would've been under the same pressure as part of the defending champs. And while I'd take Nurse over Doc it does seem that Kawhi never trusted his old mates all that much to begin with.



Did you have a brain fart re: LBJ's 4th-quarter debacle throughout the Mavs-Heat finals? (Well, suppose you could say he was decent in game 1, but still.) Kawhi was nowhere near as embarrassing in this series. No doubt he turned in a stinker in #7 and deserves to be memed for the rest of his career, but a strong bounce back will stamp out much of the schadenfreude, just like LeBron's own title run following his disastrous 1st go.
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Read my lips, because this is the inside dope....Kawhi enjoyed winning the crown while in Toronto, and gave Raptors first chance to satisfy his requirements and sign him, for a two-year stretch....BUT he wanted to upgrade the Raptors (in his view) by getting them to trade for George. What would they have to give up for George? Probably Siakam plus one or two other youngsters. The Raptors thought it over, it took them about ten minutes to see that giving up the future for a two-year deal with Kawhi was not a long-term deal, although it would probably bring the Raptors another title win in 2020 and/or 2021. The Raptors counter-offered with a huge bundle of money for a four year deal, much more money than anyone else was suggesting or offering, but Kawhi was determined to play on the same team with George. Only the Clippers were willing to make a trade for George, so they were the team Kawhi signed with. The George trade was a prerequisite to Leonard signing.

I have this from the inside line (actually, in one newspaper, which opined that the Raptors should have done what Leonard wanted). Did Leonard's analysis pan out? No, in my opinion, George was not the ticket to another title. Leonard, I think, would have enjoyed life more with signing the four year deal with Toronto instead of the two-year plus player option with Clippers.
 
NonP

NonP

Legend
I see the geriatric fanboys with delusions of expertise are at it again. At least one of 'em was unafraid to risk further embarrassing himself:

Dan Lobb said:
Read my lips, because this is the inside dope....Kawhi enjoyed winning the crown while in Toronto, and gave Raptors first chance to satisfy his requirements and sign him, for a two-year stretch....BUT he wanted to upgrade the Raptors (in his view) by getting them to trade for George. What would they have to give up for George? Probably Siakam plus one or two other youngsters. The Raptors thought it over, it took them about ten minutes to see that giving up the future for a two-year deal with Kawhi was not a long-term deal, although it would probably bring the Raptors another title win in 2020 and/or 2021. The Raptors counter-offered with a huge bundle of money for a four year deal, much more money than anyone else was suggesting or offering, but Kawhi was determined to play on the same team with George. Only the Clippers were willing to make a trade for George, so they were the team Kawhi signed with. The George trade was a prerequisite to Leonard signing.

I have this from the inside line (actually, in one newspaper, which opined that the Raptors should have done what Leonard wanted). Did Leonard's analysis pan out? No, in my opinion, George was not the ticket to another title. Leonard, I think, would have enjoyed life more with signing the four year deal with Toronto instead of the two-year plus player option with Clippers.
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So how does this "inside dope" jibe with the recent one that says the opposite? You do realize that people make demands they know won't be met to gain leverage in negotiations, right?

Also you didn't address my other point about your boy toy facing unprecedented pressure going into these playoffs. Y'all are assuming last year's Raptors remain more or less intact when postseason bball is never about Xs and Os only. Plus Kawhi made the classic mistake of thinking he could turn it back on anytime, and while that "load management" (he sat out 15 games this season vs. 22 w/Toronto) might have worked last season it turned out to be unnecessary if not self-sabotaging this time around with the extra 5-month break for everyone. Would the Clips have still imploded if Kawhi got to share more time on court with his mates? Perhaps, but it probably wouldn't have hurt.

There's a reason why only 13 teams have repeated as champs in NBA history. Call it pressure, complacency or what you will, but nobody is immune to it, not even the league's best player.
 
D

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
NonP said:
I see the geriatric fanboys with delusions of expertise are at it again. At least one of 'em was unafraid to risk further embarrassing himself:



So how does this "inside dope" jibe with the recent one that says the opposite? You do realize that people make demands they know won't be met to gain leverage in negotiations, right?

Also you didn't address my other point about your boy toy facing unprecedented pressure going into these playoffs. Y'all are assuming last year's Raptors remain more or less intact when postseason bball is never about Xs and Os only. Plus Kawhi made the classic mistake of thinking he could turn it back on anytime, and while that "load management" (he sat out 15 games this season vs. 22 w/Toronto) might have worked last season it turned out to be unnecessary if not self-sabotaging this time around with the extra 5-month break for everyone. Would the Clips have still imploded if Kawhi got to share more time on court with his mates? Perhaps, but it probably wouldn't have hurt.

There's a reason why only 13 teams have repeated as champs in NBA history. Call it pressure, complacency or what you will, but nobody is immune to it, not even the league's best player.
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Teams repeat as champions if they keep their core players intact and stay healthy. The Warriors were hobbled by injury last year.

The Raptors fielded a healthy squad this year and post-season, the shortened season probably helped with that.

But you need a spark-plug player to make the out-of-the-ordinary play, which is what Leonard provided.

Your skepticism is misplaced about the deal which Raptors turned down, they were given a chance to trade for George, but passed on it....that cost them Leonard for this season.

There was no mystery about that.
 
F

FRV3

Guest
It is so much more impressive seeing what these guys do when look at it from the "above the rim" perspective on espn3.
 
Federer and Del Potro

Federer and Del Potro

Bionic Poster
FRV3 said:
It is so much more impressive seeing what these guys do when look at it from the "above the rim" perspective on espn3.
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I'm so salty Boston pissed away the first two games of this series. Even just winning one of the two and they'd be in firm control.

Assuming they don't go full Boston and blow this one too.
 
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