travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
Not as strongly as I despise the late David Stern for his vindictive crusade against my hometown city.
NBA 2019-20: Fresh Champs, Fresh Faces, Fresh Places!
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Which team is that?
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
In case you don’t know the details, Howard Schultz (Starbucks founder), bought the Sonics, then sold out his city by selling the team to a bunch of liars from OKC (who said publicly they wanted to keep the team in Seattle but were caught red-handed with emails before the sale laughing about looking forward to the nba in OKC). Stern wanted to punish the city of Seattle for not voting to put up tax payer money to fund a new arena. So every time seattle has had a chance to get an expansion team after that, Stern blocked it. He died with the legacy of denying Seattle from having the nba since 2008. Ballmer was trying to find a way to get a team back in Seattle, but he finally just gave up and bought the clippers instead.
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Ah that's too bad. I loved using Ray Allen as a Supersonic in the 3 pt contest in video games haha. They had pretty cool uniforms as well. I didn't know how it went down.
NonP
Legend
Man you Boston groupies are sure spoiled. Your Celtics are arguably the most successful franchise in any sport but a 12-year "drought" somehow has you pining for another championship? Just be thankful you ain't stuck with the Knicks/Mets.
Will be back with more hopefully after the game, but even if the Nuggets take this one I don't see 'em pulling off another miracle this time. Apart from untimely FT misses they really couldn't get more out of their starters... unless Millsap somehow manages to turn back the clock and become a dependable scorer again. It's sad to see the time-tested veteran laying one brick after another like this, and while his ornery D alone still makes him a net plus Denver will need every ounce of O left in him to make another comeback.
Also I see that Porter Jr. played only 20 min in #4. That's too low given how effective he's been, and Mike would be wise not to be so stingy with his bench going forward.
As for LBJ's best sidekick, I've long insisted that it doesn't make sense to compare smalls and bigs as they've got such different roles and responsibilities, but since AD is more or less an oversize wing player I say he's about to overtake D-Wade... provided that the Fakers do go on to win the whole thing. But this still isn't an apples-to-apples comparison as AD is in the prime of his career while Wade was on the downward path when he welcomed LBJ and Bosh. Also while the Brow may be a slightly better shooter Wade took much better care of the ball and could lock down a wider variety of opponents. AD's size probably is the decider here, but it's close between the two.
Kyrie's got more handle, range and tricks than both of 'em, but the guy's hit-and-miss D does make it hard to back him up against either. Still LBJ doesn't get his 3rd ring without his former(ly estranged?) mate, so he deserves at least an honorary mention.
One more thing:
Kemba has got nothing on the Grindfather:
And my "favorite":
Of course Twitter was soon buzzing with hot takes on Allen's Oscar-worthy performance:
theshadowleague.com
Lowry also jumped in:
And I believe Reggie literally said "the Oscars" in a later broadcast (thought he was part of the live team), but can't find it.
Will be back with more hopefully after the game, but even if the Nuggets take this one I don't see 'em pulling off another miracle this time. Apart from untimely FT misses they really couldn't get more out of their starters... unless Millsap somehow manages to turn back the clock and become a dependable scorer again. It's sad to see the time-tested veteran laying one brick after another like this, and while his ornery D alone still makes him a net plus Denver will need every ounce of O left in him to make another comeback.
Also I see that Porter Jr. played only 20 min in #4. That's too low given how effective he's been, and Mike would be wise not to be so stingy with his bench going forward.
As for LBJ's best sidekick, I've long insisted that it doesn't make sense to compare smalls and bigs as they've got such different roles and responsibilities, but since AD is more or less an oversize wing player I say he's about to overtake D-Wade... provided that the Fakers do go on to win the whole thing. But this still isn't an apples-to-apples comparison as AD is in the prime of his career while Wade was on the downward path when he welcomed LBJ and Bosh. Also while the Brow may be a slightly better shooter Wade took much better care of the ball and could lock down a wider variety of opponents. AD's size probably is the decider here, but it's close between the two.
Kyrie's got more handle, range and tricks than both of 'em, but the guy's hit-and-miss D does make it hard to back him up against either. Still LBJ doesn't get his 3rd ring without his former(ly estranged?) mate, so he deserves at least an honorary mention.
One more thing:
Kemba has got nothing on the Grindfather:
And my "favorite":
Of course Twitter was soon buzzing with hot takes on Allen's Oscar-worthy performance:
Tony Allen's Four-Point-Flop Flagrant Helps Get Memphis To OT
Game 2 of the Western Conference Finals seemed to be over at the start of the fourth quarter. It wasn't quite Miami-in-the-opening-round over, but the experienced San Antonio Spurs rode a comfortable 12-point lead into the fourth quarter a
theshadowleague.com
Lowry also jumped in:
And I believe Reggie literally said "the Oscars" in a later broadcast (thought he was part of the live team), but can't find it.
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Bold is derogatory. Besides that, it is not so much about the team/city, state, whatever championships that I'm rooting for as much as it is about the coach and players. These Celtics have not won a chip. Brad Stevens hasn't won a chip. Jayson Tatum hasn't won a chip. Jaylen Brown hasn't won a chip. And so on. Even if they had won a chip, if they won many, I'd then like to see them solidify their legacy among the best, as that is their goal. And we are not exactly "pining", I haven't seen anyone mention a drought. I didn't even watch game 5.
Federer and Del Potro
Bionic Poster
Nobody cares about the past besides Michigan Wolverines football fans. And 12 years is an eternity in sports terms though nobody was pining or mentioning another drought. All that matters is the now and the Celtics have bungled this series and deserve criticism for their late game mistakes.
How are Celtics 'groupies' any different than Lakers 'groupies' or any other sports fans
Federer and Del Potro
Bionic Poster
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Honestly I'm kind of 60/40 on wanting the Celtics or Lakers to win, given what happened earlier this year. I give Celtics the 60 because I know I'm still gonna feel the pain if we end up losing in the finals, whereas if the Lakers were to lose I'd just feel a little bad for them. But yeah, for the current series, I'd see nothing wrong with feeling disappointment as a fan.
And to your point, didn't a great portion of our titles come when their were only 8 teams in the NBA? Haha. Any objective person knows the Lakers have been killing us.
Federer and Del Potro
Bionic Poster
Comment made no sense anyway, would be like telling Lakers fans to calm down they last got one 10 years ago and have 16 already.
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Lakers fans probably want this one more than anything right now. That's the only reason I'm kind of pulling for them as well. I think it's also due to my being somewhat detached from the Celtics. Kind of a fair-weather fan here.
NonP
Legend
Tremendous effort from Jamal. Can he hold up for the rest of the game/series?
Generally not a fan of Millsap's tantrums, but that tussle with Dwight may well turn out to be the jolt Denver needed tonight.
And....
U2 R reading too much into that word choice. All I meant was, other fanbases have gone thru worse. Just found it funny that y'all are seeing this as some kind of a failure when the future is very bright for these young players no matter what happens in this series.
Generally not a fan of Millsap's tantrums, but that tussle with Dwight may well turn out to be the jolt Denver needed tonight.
And....
U2 R reading too much into that word choice. All I meant was, other fanbases have gone thru worse. Just found it funny that y'all are seeing this as some kind of a failure when the future is very bright for these young players no matter what happens in this series.
Federer and Del Potro
Bionic Poster
I mean, again, Lakers fans are the same way. Everybody wants to win. The past doesn't really matter. Big three fans still freak out whenever their guy loses with their loads of titles.
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Kyrie and KD though
NonP
Legend
So those extra minutes for Jamal and Jokic finally caught up with them. Tonight Murray had to be great and his body said enough. Props to him and the rest of the Nuggests for the effort, but the better, deeper team won.
Going forward Denver would be wise to do everything they can to get Grant to stay. The guy is a true two-way threat and they wouldn't have gotten this far without him. The streaky shooting could use fixing, yes, but his 3-pt/FT %s have been rising and given his age (26) he's still got plenty of time for growth.
But Millsap, I'm sorry to say, needs to go or at least come off the bench. His best days are clearly behind him and the Nuggets are never getting to the finals with him as a scoring option.
As for the other series... about a month ago I would've agreed that Boston's roster of potent scorers makes 'em the better bet vs. the Fakers, but after having seen how they keep letting close ones slip by I now think their relative inexperience will lose them the series one way or the other. Plus Gordon may be back but he's still playing into top shape. Hope I'm wrong cuz I do enjoy watching these youngsters play, but they've obviously got a more pressing problem to deal with first.
The Heat ain't exactly balling either and that has to do first and foremost with Butler. I was beginning to accept that this leadership role suits him better than I thought, but given how lifeless he's been in the last few games I'm beginning to think there's something wrong with him that we haven't heard about. Cutting down on hero ball is one thing but the guy's been making barely a dozen shot attempts a game, and even on defense he's not showing his usual feistiness that tends to rub his opponents the wrong way. That's simply not the Butler I know, and while the Heat may well finish off the Celts tomorrow they're definitely not upsetting the Fakers without a healthy output from their ace. Dragic has had to pick up the slack and it shows in his declining shooting %.
Herro is one hell of a sharpshooter, but as we saw last nite he's not one who can create his own shots and relying on him to drop 15-20 every nite would be a mistake. Ditto Robinson. It all comes down to the veterans for Miami, and while Jimmy and Goran will be getting the lion's share of the kudos/blame Crowder himself needs to regain his touch as his spot-up shooting was instrumental in their early cruising to the ECF and will be absolutely crucial in dismantling the Fakers' perimeter defense against his team.
On to the replies:
Even as a Kobe fanatic I always stayed away from the Lakers Nation nonsense. Never cared for that kind of tribalism, which makes me sensitive to these things.
We'll see, but both of 'em are scorers and I rather doubt they'll mesh all that well. Plus athletes who suffer an Achilles tear usually need about 2 years to return to their pre-injury level, if at all. Still prefer your Celts to make the finals before the Nets.
Going forward Denver would be wise to do everything they can to get Grant to stay. The guy is a true two-way threat and they wouldn't have gotten this far without him. The streaky shooting could use fixing, yes, but his 3-pt/FT %s have been rising and given his age (26) he's still got plenty of time for growth.
But Millsap, I'm sorry to say, needs to go or at least come off the bench. His best days are clearly behind him and the Nuggets are never getting to the finals with him as a scoring option.
As for the other series... about a month ago I would've agreed that Boston's roster of potent scorers makes 'em the better bet vs. the Fakers, but after having seen how they keep letting close ones slip by I now think their relative inexperience will lose them the series one way or the other. Plus Gordon may be back but he's still playing into top shape. Hope I'm wrong cuz I do enjoy watching these youngsters play, but they've obviously got a more pressing problem to deal with first.
The Heat ain't exactly balling either and that has to do first and foremost with Butler. I was beginning to accept that this leadership role suits him better than I thought, but given how lifeless he's been in the last few games I'm beginning to think there's something wrong with him that we haven't heard about. Cutting down on hero ball is one thing but the guy's been making barely a dozen shot attempts a game, and even on defense he's not showing his usual feistiness that tends to rub his opponents the wrong way. That's simply not the Butler I know, and while the Heat may well finish off the Celts tomorrow they're definitely not upsetting the Fakers without a healthy output from their ace. Dragic has had to pick up the slack and it shows in his declining shooting %.
Herro is one hell of a sharpshooter, but as we saw last nite he's not one who can create his own shots and relying on him to drop 15-20 every nite would be a mistake. Ditto Robinson. It all comes down to the veterans for Miami, and while Jimmy and Goran will be getting the lion's share of the kudos/blame Crowder himself needs to regain his touch as his spot-up shooting was instrumental in their early cruising to the ECF and will be absolutely crucial in dismantling the Fakers' perimeter defense against his team.
On to the replies:
Even as a Kobe fanatic I always stayed away from the Lakers Nation nonsense. Never cared for that kind of tribalism, which makes me sensitive to these things.
We'll see, but both of 'em are scorers and I rather doubt they'll mesh all that well. Plus athletes who suffer an Achilles tear usually need about 2 years to return to their pre-injury level, if at all. Still prefer your Celts to make the finals before the Nets.
Federer and Del Potro
Bionic Poster
RIP
Federer and Del Potro
Bionic Poster
Can't give away all those games early in a series and expect to live to tell the tale.
That was the big difference of this series.
That was the big difference of this series.
Federer and Del Potro
Bionic Poster
That Hayward contract was one of the worst moves Danny has made in his time here. Right up there with the terrible Perkins trade in 2012.
Plenty of gems on his resume, that was one of his gaffes.
Good player but nowhere near the money he's getting.
Plenty of gems on his resume, that was one of his gaffes.
Good player but nowhere near the money he's getting.
-NN-
G.O.A.T.
After how desperately disappointed Bam was after his performance in game 5, which he put all on himself, he's had an outstanding and commanding performance to help Miami close out this series.
I take it we can unite here against the common enemy now, no? Should I buy a HEAT jersey?
I take it we can unite here against the common enemy now, no? Should I buy a HEAT jersey?
NonP
Legend
An impressive run by the Heat indeed. Like almost everyone else I underestimated them early on (without having seen 'em play once!), but even so it's been incredible to see these underdogs dispatch their favored opponents like true title favorites.
So can they go all the way and upset the Fakers? Yes they can. Here's why:
So will (recent) history rear its ugly/glorious (guess which side I'm on) head again? Here's hoping we don't find out till after the FO final!
So can they go all the way and upset the Fakers? Yes they can. Here's why:
- For the first time in these playoffs AD will finally meet his athletic match in Adebayo. If anything Bam might be even a hair better, and while he can't quite match the Brow's offense and wingspan he can and will keep the potential Finals MVP well under 57.1% and 36.6% in FG% and 3P%.
- Both Butler and Crowder have the size, athleticism and quick hands to make LBJ sweat. It's frankly embarrassing for the league that the 35-year-old is still shooting 54.7% and 34.9% from downtown through the first three rounds of these playoffs, and until they change the rules to allow for more physical defense it's up to the two Js to keep the other MVP candidate honest.
- In sharpshooters Robinson and Herro the Heat probably have their biggest trump card(s) as Green has been struggling and Rondo's hot streak is unlikely to continue against the Miami D.
- Dragic may be a step slower, but his slithering offense a la Ginobili should still be effective against Caruso's handsy defense.
- Iggy has been there, done that, now six times in a row in fact (I rather doubt even he expected this when he left GS). Expect him to match Rondo's output off the bench.
- Spo will likely win the battle of wits vs. Vogel.
- Butler simply must be more aggressive. He did take more shots tonight but still retreated to a spectator role in the 2nd half, and unsurprisingly that's taken a toll on his mid-range/perimeter shooting. It's imperative that he gets more touches as his opportunities in the paint will be limited vs. the Fakers.
- Crowder somehow needs to regain his hot hands from earlier in these playoffs. Hit the practice court till your hands bleed if you have to. His team will need him to score his share of points against one of the league's most potent offenses.
- Go easy on the small ball. It might be tempting to give up on trying to match AD, LBJ, Howard and McGee in paint/boardwork, but as we saw from the Rockets and the Celtics tonight relying on treys as your primary O is still a mug's game, especially when you've got the likes of Adebayo, Crowder and Butler who's been stealing an impressive 7% of offensive boards so far this postseason.
- Spo should look deeper into his bench to keep the Fakers from bullying them in the post. Maybe Olynyk will come to the rescue again! (Yes, I know that was like 245895 years ago and with the Celts.)
- Last but not least, never lose the self-belief that has gotten you this far.
So will (recent) history rear its ugly/glorious (guess which side I'm on) head again? Here's hoping we don't find out till after the FO final!
-NN-
G.O.A.T.
Insightful analysis. All I'd say is: I only think the HEAT coaching staff have a slight edge over the LA staff. The Lakers have generally been very sharp and detail oriented despite the safety net they have with their two superstars. I agree on Butler but at the same time I think the room he gives the team is a big part of why each member of the team have the collective belief that they can be a true star on the team while at the same time leaving ego at the door. He does need to get going and eat into some of that space, but overall he has a fantastic feel for how to maximise the positive dynamic of this team. He is all about winning and not about the stats line.
But would you go as far to predict a HEAT victory? You hope for it, but would you predict it?
NonP
Legend
Yes, it's been very pleasantly surprising to see Jimmy of all people acting like a true leader, and in his 1st year with his new team to boot. And that in spite of his current side gig as a (very pricey) barista! (now with growing competition):
Jimmy Butler is charging $20 a cup from his NBA bubble coffee shop
The Miami Heat star has apparently started a side hustle as an NBA bubble barista.
Having said that... the guy's been averaging 13.3 FGA in these playoffs which is down from his Chicago and Philly days, and while one could argue that's precisely why the Heat are rolling I do think they'll need more action from him to do the unthinkable and slay the krakens. Doesn't have to take the shots himself. Just enough to keep the Fakers guessing, get to the line and/or draw fouls and defenders to give his sharpshooting mates more breathing room0. We haven't seen that Butler enough in these playoffs.
As to your Q... alas I still think the Fakers will take it in 6 or 7. If Crowder were still knocking down his treys I might have been bold enough to take the Heat in 7, but he's not and Dragic has been increasingly showing his age. But Adebayo... man if Bam can somehow match AD this series will be up for grabs. The Heat have been surprising us all postseason long and unlike the Nuggets they've been brutally efficient in taking care of business. AND this is Bubble Playoffs we're talking about. My mind may be saying no... but my heart is in the right bubble!
-NN-
G.O.A.T.
Yes, it's been very pleasantly surprising to see Jimmy of all people acting like a true leader, and in his 1st year with his new team to boot. And that in spite of his current side gig as a (very pricey) barista! (now with growing competition):
Jimmy Butler is charging $20 a cup from his NBA bubble coffee shop
The Miami Heat star has apparently started a side hustle as an NBA bubble barista.www.espn.com
Having said that... the guy's been averaging 13.3 FGA in these playoffs which is down from his Chicago and Philly days, and while one could argue that's precisely why the Heat are rolling I do think they'll need more action from him to do the unthinkable and slay the krakens. Doesn't have to take the shots himself. Just enough to keep the Fakers guessing, get to the line and/or draw fouls and defenders to give his sharpshooting mates more breathing room0. We haven't seen that Butler enough in these playoffs.
As to your Q... alas I still think the Fakers will take it in 6 or 7. If Crowder were still knocking down his treys I might have been bold enough to take the Heat in 7, but he's not and Dragic has been increasingly showing his age. But Adebayo... man if Bam can somehow match AD this series will be up for grabs. The Heat have been surprising us all postseason long and unlike the Nuggets they've been brutally efficient in taking care of business. AND this is Bubble Playoffs we're talking about. My mind may be saying no... but my heart is in the right bubble!
The HEAT are incredibly timely in their runs and very clutch and measured with their execution when it really matters, so I think they'll at least put the Lakers in many pressure scenarios which will test their identity in terms of closing out key stretches and games, and if the HEAT can match up to LeBron as well as you suggest, and Bam can be the X-factor and rise to something close to the level of AD, we'll find out a lot about just how much "dawg" AD really has in him and who the Lakers trust in crunch time. The Heat have no such problems in their fluid system in which many guys feel empowered to throw out daggers. In other words, if Miami can hang on and put these games on a knife-edge, I'd actually favour them to come through. But will they be able to stay in sight of the Lakers often enough to really test their mettle and identity in the crucible of an NBA Finals?
I'm also going with the Lakers but in 6. If we get a game 7, then to me it's a coin flip. Aside from it being a hell of an occasion in general, I do wonder how the Lakers especially would deal with a game 7 given the pressure they feel in the year of Kobe, and this year there's no real home-court advantage. I could imagine the Lakers rising to the occasion spectacularly or folding in the moment, but it's really all a bit pointless for me to speculate on because there's not really any predicting the psychological response of teams in a game 7, especially in these unique Bubble circumstances.
Ultimately, if the HEAT wanna win, I agree with you that Bam HAS to be that X-Factor who can rise to something close to AD, even if it's only for one series. That would be a huge acid test for AD, on the verge of his first Championship for the prohibitive favourite. LeBron has been empowering AD, who has started to show his worth in the 4th quarters of games with the Lakers, showing less passivity in general, and coming into his own as a leader in his own right on the team. If AD outclasses Bam and Miami have no real answer for him then I don't see it going the distance.
I'm sure Buckets can find a way to be a bit more active and involved, though he's still been productive. It's been strange watching him in phases of this playoff run as he vacillates between being surreptitious, almost invisible (while still contributing) and being timely and a go-to guy in the most vital moments, standing out amongst the crowd. It's like he's got a sixth sense of when the team are out of gas from their active playmakers and he decides it's his time to boost his guys.
NonP
Legend
That's what really gives me pause. Remember that time when Spo didn't put Jimmy back in the last minute of a still winnable game? (Don't recall which one but think it was game 4 vs. the Bucks.) It was a pretty extraordinary sight, to see the team's arguably best player on the bench when the game was still on the line. And like you said he's been strangely on and off throughout these playoffs.
Hence my earlier observation about Buckets possibly having some issues that remain hidden from the prying public eye. The guy used to be too cocky for his own good, but now he seems almost resigned to being the 2nd option to Adebayo, Herro or whoever. Hopefully this is a deliberate play on his (and Spo's) part and he's roaring to take on the Fakers and prove everyone wrong.
And yes, Bam will be absolutely crucial in that team effort. That the Brow will be scoring his share of buckets is a certainty, but can Bam make him work for it while getting his own shots off? I think he can. Wednesday can't come soon enough!
Federer and Del Potro
Bionic Poster
Lakers in 5
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
I’m not a Lakers fan, but I’m sort of morbidly fascinated with watching to see whether the aging best player in the league can choose his preferred running mate before the season, then fill in the rest of the roster with a misfit band of castoff has-beans and backup level scrubs and drag them to title.
I think the COVID lay-off really helped the Lakers and Heat by giving talented and disciplined freak athlete guys like Rondo, LeBron, Butler and Iggy a chance to get themselves into perfect physical shape for the playoff push.
I think Adebayo feasted on Boston’s lack of athletic bigs. I don’t see him having as much of an impact against Dwight and AD.
But Iguadala will likely get a lot more minutes and impact the series.
I think the COVID lay-off really helped the Lakers and Heat by giving talented and disciplined freak athlete guys like Rondo, LeBron, Butler and Iggy a chance to get themselves into perfect physical shape for the playoff push.
I think Adebayo feasted on Boston’s lack of athletic bigs. I don’t see him having as much of an impact against Dwight and AD.
But Iguadala will likely get a lot more minutes and impact the series.
Federer and Del Potro
Bionic Poster
Doc Rivers fired much to @donquijote 's delight
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Try Who?
donquijote
G.O.A.T.
Actually I'd rather have him stay and we could get Kawhi back next year.
Funny enough, they are talking about Houston as his next destination. He's not a bad coach but he is overrated for sure.
He had one good season in Orlando and then landed in Boston and won with the help of three stars Garnett, Allen, Pierce in the team and the peak Rondo.
He is the only coach in the history of the NBA to lose 2 playoff series after blowing a 3-1 lead.
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Guest
I didn't watch the game
It was a massacre.
donquijote
G.O.A.T.
Lol Sixers.
Not alot of people did, ratings were down 68%. The least watched Finals game in history
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Recall when the finals were tape-delayed
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FRV3
Guest
Maybe I’ll tune in for a bit today
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Prefer watching Sue Bird & Brianna Stewart
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FRV3
Guest
Lakers lost.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Home Court advantage?
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Guest
I'm not sure how big a difference that makes now
victorcruz
Hall of Fame
The disrespect to lose in mamba jerseys... Rooting for the Heat in 7 but it's likely over in game 6. Jimmy has shown us a lot.
