I would trade one of Nadal's non-clay slams for another Roland Garros

ADuck · Nov 2, 2020

As a fan, I would trade one of Nadal's non-clay slams for RG 2009, but preferably one of his Wimbledon or US Open titles. 10 French Opens in a row is too impressive an achievement/record to pass up. Dominance like that is just far more impressive than a little more versatility. I think all the talk of surface versatility ignores the other side of the equation. Nadal is special because he's done something nobody else is even close to doing. Federer/Djokovic are impressive also, but they're improving on what others have done before. Co-domination on Hard/Grass isn't a new concept, it's been done before and others will continue to do so in the future. All this to say, Nadal lacks in surface versatility when compared to Fed/Djok, sure, but they also lack what Nadal has.

Do you agree?

FrontHeadlock · Nov 2, 2020

If anything I'd trade his AO, which sounds crazy, but to me that win doesn't tell me anything that his 4 USOs don't already tell me.

I wouldn't trade a W because multiple Channel Slams is very prestigious. Likewise, I think Nadal gets a lot of cred out of 4 USOs. It's pretty much THE stat he can point to when someone attacks his off-clay record.

Third Serve · Nov 2, 2020

Trade AO 2009 for RG 2016 pls and thank you

tsurismo5 · Nov 2, 2020

The current exchange rate is:

1 WIM = 3RG
1 AO = 2RG
1 USO = 1RG

DSH · Nov 2, 2020

tsurismo5 said:
The current exchange rate is:

1 WIM = 3RG
1 AO = 2RG
1 USO = 1RG

aldeayeah · Nov 2, 2020

tsurismo5 said:
The current exchange rate is:

1 WIM = 3RG
1 AO = 2RG
1 USO = 1RG

Remind me to never play Settlers of Catan with you.

victorcruz · Nov 2, 2020

B-b-but if you take away someone else's 09 hard earned French open, he might never have won that slam.

PeoplesChamp · Nov 2, 2020

2009 RG is the only one that would make sense for sure. Any other trade for yet another RG title would only hurt Nadal. For instance 2021 RG is best left to someone else if Nadal wants to be taken seriously.

Deleted member 775898 · Nov 3, 2020

I would trade one of his USOs for RG09. Federer wouldn't be in the GOAT discussion anyway without the Career Slam

.

Standaa · Nov 3, 2020

this point of view is a breath of fresh air. there are two sides to the distribution coin

aldeayeah · Nov 3, 2020

Maybe specifically USO 2019 for RG 2009. Other than the final, that one was a bit of a stinker and the likes of tennis_pro won't ever shut up about it.

All the other non-RG slams involve great wins against top players. I wouldn't want to give up any of those.

Then again, I would feel bad about stealing from Soderling his big moment of glory. He's been unlucky enough.

zuluzazu · Nov 3, 2020

PeoplesChamp said:
2009 RG is the only one that would make sense for sure. Any other trade for yet another RG title would only hurt Nadal. For instance 2021 RG is best left to someone else if Nadal wants to be taken seriously.

Are you serious??? How can winning any slam be a negative for your resume. You are the most delusional poster I have ever seen. Please try to be rational.

Lew II · Nov 3, 2020

Nadal should have more weeks at #1 (he's outside the top5) and dominant seasons (he may not have any of the top10 seasons in the Open Era).

No one cares about the distribution of titles

aldeayeah · Nov 3, 2020

zuluzazu said:
Are you serious??? How can winning any slam be a negative for your resume. You are the most delusional poster I have ever seen. Please try to be rational.

He's saying the trade would be a negative.

zuluzazu · Nov 3, 2020

aldeayeah said:
He's saying the trade would be a negative.

How can he talk about trade when 2021 RG has not happened yet. I replied to his comment about 2021 RG

aldeayeah · Nov 3, 2020

zuluzazu said:
How can he talk about trade when 2021 RG has not happened yet. I replied to his comment about 2021 RG

The hypothetical trade. I know "if, if" doesn't exist, but let's make an effort here.

The implicit message was "if Nadal loses RG 2021, he shouldn't choose to magically trade away one of his non-RG slams to win it instead"

anarosevoli · Nov 3, 2020

Giving a Wimbledon would put him down in the 1 per surface tier, USO should be no problem.

tennis_pro · Nov 3, 2020

What about 20 French Opens?

Nadal's clay obsession transfered to his fans I see. The master in one category and a 4.0 player in other.

beard · Nov 3, 2020

The essence of this thread and many other...
Another Nadal fan convincing others, and even more convincing himself, how important is winning milions of RG's... Hey, it's great Nadal is so dominant on clay, but don't try to fool yourself or other that abnormally skewed resume is better one...

Even meaning of skew word tells everything we need to know...

PeoplesChamp · Nov 3, 2020

aldeayeah said:
The hypothetical trade. I know "if, if" doesn't exist, but let's make an effort here.

The implicit message was "if Nadal loses RG 2021, he shouldn't choose to magically trade away one of his non-RG slams to win it instead"

If he wins it, he'd be better off trading it for something else.

PeoplesChamp · Nov 3, 2020

zuluzazu said:
Are you serious??? How can winning any slam be a negative for your resume. You are the most delusional poster I have ever seen. Please try to be rational.

I'm telling you right now. No one gives a damn if Nadal keeps winning RG. That's what I'm telling you. You don't have to like it. Don't expect you to really. Just saying no one gives a damn.

Yugram · Nov 3, 2020

Apollo17 said:
I would trade one of his USOs for RG09. Federer wouldn't be in the GOAT discussion anyway without the Career Slam .

But he isn’t in the GOAT discussion anyway...

PeoplesChamp · Nov 3, 2020

Tennis is a multi surface game with Wimbledon (grass) as it's most prestigious tournament. Only Federer or long shot Djokovic has a chance to be considered the greatest. Djokovic must surpass Federer well and not by a slim margin. He must clear Fed thoroughly. If he does that, he will deserve to be called GOAT. Until then, Federer rules.

aldeayeah · Nov 3, 2020

PeoplesChamp said:
I'm telling you right now. No one gives a damn if Nadal keeps winning RG. That's what I'm telling you. You don't have to like it. Don't expect you to really. Just saying no one gives a damn.

Until 10 years pass, people look back and appreciate the sheer enormity of the task. It's a matter of perspective.

PeoplesChamp said:
Tennis is a multi surface game with Wimbledon (grass) as it's most prestigipus tournament. Only Federer or long shot Djokovic has a chance to be considered the greatest. Djokovic must surpass Federer well and not by a slim margin. He must clear Fed thoroughly. If he does that, he will deserve to be called GOAT. Until then, Federer rules.

OK, so it seems you're a garden variety troll. Thanks for making it clear.

PeoplesChamp · Nov 3, 2020

You cannot be the GOAT of tennis based on one surface and have all stats in your favor based on such.

Yugram · Nov 3, 2020

PeoplesChamp said:
Tennis is a multi surface game with Wimbledon (grass) as it's most prestigipus tournament. Only Federer or long shot Djokovic has a chance to be considered the greatest. Djokovic must surpass Federer well and not by a slim margin. He must clear Fed thoroughly. If he does that, he will deserve to be called GOAT. Until then, Federer rules.

Federer is not even in top 3 of the greatest players. You don't have to like it. Don't expect you to really. Too hard for you to process. Keep praying to the media propaganda.

tennis_pro · Nov 3, 2020

aldeayeah said:
Until 10 years pass, people look back and appreciate the sheer enormity of the task. It's a matter of perspective.

Yeah, the process is pure freaking torture for 99% of the viewers, though.

PeoplesChamp · Nov 3, 2020

aldeayeah said:
Until 10 years pass, people look back and appreciate the sheer enormity of the task. It's a matter of perspective.

OK, so it seems you're a garden variety troll. Thanks for making it clear.

Well, it's a freak of nature thing involving spin, left handedness, and FH to BH exchanges. Not fooling anyone.

PeoplesChamp · Nov 3, 2020

Yugram said:
Federer is not even in top 3 of the greatest players. You don't have to like it. Don't expect you to really. Too hard for you to process. Keep praying to the media propaganda.

Keep dreaming.

ADuck · Nov 3, 2020

aldeayeah said:
Until 10 years pass, people look back and appreciate the sheer enormity of the task. It's a matter of perspective.

The longer this record lasts, the more popular the name "Rafael Nadal" is going to become. Future generations are going to look back very favorably on him.

Yugram · Nov 3, 2020

ADuck said:
The longer this record lasts, the more popular the name "Rafael Nadal" is going to become. Future generations are going to look back very favorably on him.

And the general memory of Federer will probably be alike: "Ah, that’s this player liked by everyone who always sucked massively against Djokovic and Nadal".

TheGhostOfAgassi · Nov 3, 2020

I’d trade away AO or Wimbledon for another USO.

Standaa · Nov 3, 2020

ADuck said:
The longer this record lasts, the more popular the name "Rafael Nadal" is going to become. Future generations are going to look back very favorably on him.

tbh the vast majority of Big 3 records will not get broken in our lifetimes

Breakpointerer · Nov 3, 2020

As a Federer and Nadal fan I think it would be great if you traded Wim08/AO09 for RG 15/16

weakera · Nov 3, 2020

I would definitely trade W 2010 or a USO for RG 2016

aldeayeah · Nov 3, 2020

TheGhostOfAgassi said:
I’d trade away AO or Wimbledon for another USO.

How would you trade away AO?? That was Rafa's most impressive win. Or WB'08 for that matter.

TheGhostOfAgassi · Nov 3, 2020

aldeayeah said:
How would you trade away AO?? That was Rafa's most impressive win. Or WB'08 for that matter.

Wouldn’t trade Wimbledon 8.
Would be cool to have many USO.

Tiki-Taka · Nov 3, 2020

tennis_pro said:
What about 20 French Opens?

Nadal's clay obsession transfered to his fans I see. The master in one category and a 4.0 player in other.

Quite a bad look on Federer and Djokovic to lose to a 4.0 player in their categories in the prime of their careers then.

tennis_pro · Nov 3, 2020

Tiki-Taka said:
Quite a bad look on Federer and Djokovic to lose to a 4.0 player in their categories in the prime of their careers then.

Nadal the opportunist only played them when he was in top form and they weren't like monoFed, badbackFed or Djokovic after 5 set matches against Wawrinka/Federer while Nadal played his usual SF opponents like Youzhny, Gasquet or Berrettini.

Tiki-Taka · Nov 3, 2020

tennis_pro said:
Nadal the opportunist only played them when he was in top form and they weren't like monoFed, badbackFed or Djokovic after 5 set matches against Wawrinka/Federer while Nadal played his usual SF opponents like Youzhny, Gasquet or Berrettini.

An opportunist doesn't win the most US Opens over the last 11 editions while withdrawing from three of them. Having to go through five sets earlier is the player's fault.

Nadal played them plenty and needed less attempts to win more matches than they did against him at Roland Garros. What is it now, one win in fourteen combined attempts? Clearly someone else has to prove more outside the favorite environment. Or perhaps Nadal deserves extra credit for never allowing upsets in his house...

Fedinkum · Nov 3, 2020

I like to trade my wisdom teeth for a night with Gal Gadot.

tennis_pro · Nov 3, 2020

Tiki-Taka said:
An opportunist doesn't win the most US Opens over the last 11 editions while withdrawing from three of them. Having to go through five sets earlier is the player's fault.

Yes it's totally Djokovic's fault that he faced Federer or Wawrinka in the SF instead of Berrettini. Totally his fault. He should've given the organizers a better offer than Nadal did. Nadal's USO draws were all a complete joke, I would be embarassed to win the tournament with such draws.

Tiki-Taka said:
Nadal played them plenty and needed less attempts to win more matches than they did against him at Roland Garros. What is it now, one win in fourteen combined attempts? Clearly someone else has to prove more outside the favorite environment. Or perhaps Nadal deserves extra credit for never allowing upsets in his house...

it only proves my point that he's nothing but an opportunist clay courter

TheNachoMan · Nov 3, 2020

RAFA fans even want a skewed distribution now. LOL

Just take away all his non clay slams. Fine by me

Subway Tennis · Nov 3, 2020

TheGhostOfAgassi said:
Wouldn’t trade Wimbledon 8.
Would be cool to have many USO.

Being the joint record holder for USO titles would be a cool result for a guy who's supposed to be a mug off clay

Pheasant · Nov 3, 2020

Quite honestly, trade 3 of his non-clay slams for 2009 and 2015-16 FO titles would be awesome. 16 straight FO titles would be cool as hell, along with a nice 112-0 record there.

I have said all along that I’d be more impressed by 16 RG titles than 4 of each. 4 of each means that you have been topped by multiple players at each event. 16 FO titles is timeless. It’s more impressive. It’s unbreakable.

Flipping this around, I would happily trade 3 non-grass titles for 3 more Wimbledon titles for Federer.

Tiki-Taka · Nov 3, 2020

tennis_pro said:
Yes it's totally Djokovic's fault that he faced Federer or Wawrinka in the SF instead of Berrettini. Totally his fault. He should've given the organizers a better offer than Nadal did. Nadal's USO draws were all a complete joke, I would be embarassed to win the tournament with such draws.

You are acting as if Djokovic is the only one who had to play five sets in a Slam semifinal or that it's impossible to recover from that. Nadal had a far more brutal five set match with Verdasco that time in Australia as well as one day less to rest and still went out there and beat Federer in five again. Why don't you explain to us in what way was that one opportunistic too...

You don't feel embarrassed to make the arguments you are making now so I doubt that earning most prestigious trophies and huge tournament cheques would make you red faced either.

tennis_pro said:
it only proves my point that he's nothing but an opportunist clay courter

He's won 4 of his non clay Majors beating Federer or Djokovic, having a near 50% record against the former on hard courts in 20 matches, winning the most US Open titles since 2010, and he never gave them a chance on his surface for 15 years. Combine that and others things and you get a guy with a shared record for most Slams. Possibly standalone next year. I think it's about time you reach acceptance phase...

zuluzazu · Nov 3, 2020

Tiki-Taka said:
You are acting as if Djokovic is the only one who had to play five sets in a Slam semifinal or that it's impossible to recover from that. Nadal had a far more brutal five set match with Verdasco that time in Australia as well as one day less to rest and still went out there and beat Federer in five again. Why don't you explain to us in what way was that one opportunistic too...

You don't feel embarrassed to make the arguments you are making now so I doubt that earning most prestigious trophies and huge tournament cheques would make you red faced either.

He's won 4 of his non clay Majors beating Federer or Djokovic, having a near 50% record against the former on hard courts in 20 matches, winning the most US Open titles since 2010, and he never gave them a chance on his surface for 15 years. Combine that and others things and you get a guy with a shared record for most Slams. Possibly standalone next year. I think it's about time you reach acceptance phase...

Why bother to argue with him. He is already a laughing stock and a meme in this forum. He thinks Nadal is 4.0 off so what does that make federer who lost to Nadal after Nadal played a 5hr semi without a rest day. Oh how I love some of these insecure fed fans. All the records are going away from fed except his Basel and Halle titles.

NatF · Nov 3, 2020

zuluzazu said:
Why bother to argue with him. He is already a laughing stock and a meme in this forum. He thinks Nadal is 4.0 off so what does that make federer who lost to Nadal after Nadal played a 5hr semi without a rest day. Oh how I love some of these insecure fed fans. All the records are going away from fed except his Basel and Halle titles.

Nadal had a days rest. Just not two.

tennis_pro · Nov 3, 2020

Tiki-Taka said:
You are acting as if Djokovic is the only one who had to play five sets in a Slam semifinal or that it's impossible to recover from that. Nadal had a far more brutal five set match with Verdasco that time in Australia as well as one day less to rest and still went out there and beat Federer in five again. Why don't you explain to us in what way was that one opportunistic too...

You don't feel embarrassed to make the arguments you are making now so I doubt that earning most prestigious trophies and huge tournament cheques would make you red faced either.

Sounds like a typical covoodoodian argument. Who cares that millions have no symptoms when you have one guy who died, let's lock the entire world.

How many times Nadal had cakewalks compared to how many tough semis? Tell me.

Fed who couldn't serve too and on a surface that was so slow it's a joke to call it a HC.

Tiki-Taka said:
He's won 4 of his non clay Majors beating Federer or Djokovic, having a near 50% record against the former on hard courts in 20 matches, winning the most US Open titles since 2010, and he never gave them a chance on his surface for 15 years. Combine that and others things and you get a guy with a shared record for most Slams. Possibly standalone next year. I think it's about time you reach acceptance phase...

Yeah, all opportunistic wins.

tennis_pro · Nov 3, 2020

zuluzazu said:
Why bother to argue with him. He is already a laughing stock and a meme in this forum. He thinks Nadal is 4.0 off so what does that make federer who lost to Nadal after Nadal played a 5hr semi without a rest day. Oh how I love some of these insecure fed fans. All the records are going away from fed except his Basel and Halle titles.

What's his record against Federer and Djokovic outside of clay in the last 7 years again? I'm actually generous here.

Nadal can only win s**t outside of clay when he has a draw full with Berrettinis.

I would trade one of Nadal's non-clay slams for another Roland Garros

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