Thumb Position On Eastern Backhand Grip.
- Thread starter Raul_SJ
- Start date
FWIW, I have held my racquet like the first pic ever since after I broke my hand back in high school, and while my backhand is quite good, I have never seen a single other player (rec or pro) who uses my grip, except for maybe Don Budge from like 7000 years ago.
I use the thumb-out grip specifically for MORE stability, and I believe it definitely provides more stability. It does however severely limit your racquet head speed and ability to create spin.
I use the thumb-out grip specifically for MORE stability, and I believe it definitely provides more stability. It does however severely limit your racquet head speed and ability to create spin.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
I try to hold it like the second pic but often find myself reverting something closer the first pic. Think I have better feel and it feels just as comfortable as second pic. Tend to agree that thumb down produces more topspin. Not sure why... Suspect many students use the first pic and find it comfortable and that is why Kevin made a video advising against it.
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Dragy
Legend
Using your thumb as support against handle can only work with slower swinging. When you want to swing fast, you need to lead with the buttcap, otherwise you'll struggle to repeatedly and consistently bear the load of 300+ SW with the wrist, let alone thumb.
With efficient techniques you don't need to push racquet head around. You pull the handle forward, up, and then across, and you in some cases (for "draw" shot) release RH outward. What you do with your thumb is push RH up via all-arm rotation (ESR), and you need thumb below handle to do this.
With efficient techniques you don't need to push racquet head around. You pull the handle forward, up, and then across, and you in some cases (for "draw" shot) release RH outward. What you do with your thumb is push RH up via all-arm rotation (ESR), and you need thumb below handle to do this.
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
it's fine.
Having your thumb out does not prevent leading with the buttcap or ESR and, in 20+ years has not led to any injury or pain for me. It does however slightly limit the racquet head speed you could otherwise get with a windshield-wiper type of swing (and has accompanying limits on spin production due to that). I have used the thumb-out grip to provide extra support for my hand/wrist after having a series of stress fractures in my right hand when I was in high school. It has meant that I generally have to drive my backhand more with a more "old school" type of swing, but it is definitely workable for a good high-4.5 level backhand. With that said, I still would only advocate it be used as a workaround for someone who needs more stability/wrist support for injury reasons (and is fully incapable of hitting a decent two-handed backhand, like myself).
Then your slice grip is wrong. It should be Continental.
1HBHFTW
Rookie
It is continental.. but my thumb is higher toward bevel 7 instead of around the bottom (bevel five).
TennisDawg
Hall of Fame
Have you tried allowing your thumb to naturally go around the racquet? The thumb around bevel 7 seems awkward for slice.
1HBHFTW
Rookie
Yes it's a subconscious thing that only happens sometimes when I'm particularly concerned with placement. It makes me feel (perhaps falsely) like I have more control. I actually notice it more on dropshots than aggressive slice.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
Allow me to introduce myself! I'm pic 1, although I've tried pic 2 and can easily do that as well so I'm thinking about training myself to be pic 2. I've always had a good ability to immediately adjust my tennis strokes after being shown once and told once when I was learning tennis age 4-8 ish years old (when my form kind of set in) , but since I've done the thumb thing so long it's been harder to remind myself.
It doesn't hurt the thumb at all, like OP said.
What's better about no thumb? You can rotate the racket more easily for better topspin. But, no wonder my backhand is flat, the thumb out leads to a flatter backhand. However, my backhand is my best stroke and is often complimented when playing new tennis opponents. Many people have great forehands in rec tennis, not that many have a backhand as reliable and hard hitting as mine and the thumb out isn't impeding that success.
What's better with the thumb out? I can make tiny micro adjustments to the racket face with my thumb, it's been trained over decades to be my "rudder" and allows for really good lefty slice spins, insane drop shots, very stable backhand volleys and overheads with precision not available if just gripping the handle with my hand and no thumb stabilizing things.
I do think you could hurt your thumb if you tried to do this as an adult for the first time, I've built my thumb strength so to speak over the years. Also, now that I write all this, maybe I shouldn't change my grip, maybe I've got a lot of muscle memory built up with my current grip that helps me do certain shots. I could maybe just do thumb out on every backhand besides topspin groundies and try to do thumb for stopspin.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
Interesting, his thumb kind of goes across two bevels, mine is straight done the main bevel like pic 1
Here another pic https://images.app.goo.gl/YBMtEEDGqAGUiNsn9
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
You'd be surprised what the human body can adapt to, the thumb on a one hander isn't going to stop someone from going pro, obviously.
Hopefully you can see the flaw in your reasoning
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
Sure, it's a bit of a grab, but thumb position won't stop anyone from having a really good backhand, not at all, so "good strokes" as in a good backhand doesn't have to start with the thumb in a particular place, within reason.
Hard disagree.
PrinceMoron
Legend
Just don’t copy his hair style
S
Slicehand
Guest
pic 1 is obviously didiculous
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
I can rip winners with pic 1 or pic 2, I just realized a few years ago how unorthodox pic 1 is, even though that's my normal grip if I don't think about it. But, like I mentioned, pic 1 does open up some more finite adjustments to a lefty slice backhand, really helps with super pinpoint slices and drop shots. I/you can make a thousand more tiny adjustments with the thumb more easily than trying to get the whole hand wrist 4 fingers to cooperate.
I wouldn't teach someone that from day 1, but just explaining it's not impossible, I've been doing it that way since about age 4.
Exactly.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Just when I thought I knew all I wanted to know about tennis………
d-quik
Hall of Fame
When the wrist is undergoing supinatition during a TS1HBH the thumb on the 2nd pic will carry it through the contact point upward. If you use the 1st pic that means all the "upwardness" will come from the hand and whatever acceleration occurred BEFORE the contact but will grant maybe more "forwardnesd" instead?
Idk maybe I am full of scheiße
Idk maybe I am full of scheiße
If it works for you that is all it matters. At least you have some pros to back it up.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
Hahaha, yes I know it's not ideal, that's why I am mixing in the "proper" stroke to see how that feels and indeed you can roll more extreme topspin via wrist movement without the thumb stuck out, but @ballmachineguy I can add a little magic on slices with the thumb and it adds stability.
Indeed, it's not exactly ideal with net clearance, but for a flatter driving 1 handed backhand it is extremely potent. I think making clean contact is more of a priority, somewhat similar to what Nick talks about in this video and some others where many different high level players have variety in their forehand takeback, yet they all make good contact and have great FH.
Friedman Whip
Professional
I have a steady partner who has a very consistently solid and accurate flat 4.5 one hand backhand. I was astounded one day when he showed me his grip - thumb straight behind the handle as per picture 1. Never would have thought that but I ain't knocking it.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
What about the thumb on the off hand? What is that doing?
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Staying cocked.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Sounds like a game changer!
Here again Alex Corretja. Spanish 1-handed players used thumb little bit different to others. https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2D4288G/a...-kitzbuehel-on-july-25-2001-lecrb-2D4288G.jpg
optic yellow
Legend
Great post. It is interesting you mention the draw part because I feel like I very rarely see that from ATP 1HBH players. It seems useful of course but harder to hit reliably?
Dragy
Legend
optic yellow
Legend
Do you have a video where I can see the ball flights?
Dragy
Legend
Not at hand. But most CC drives by Federer will do, particularly sharp angled ones.
I think my wavering between "severely" and "slightly" is directional. My thumb behind the grip probably only slightly limits the forward speed of my racquet head, but it severely limits any upward racquet head speed. Again, I do it due to old injuries/physical limitations (weak grip strength due to multiple stress fractures of hamate bone). Wouldn't recommend the grip for most, but can cover for some limitations.
Very interesting grip. I need to give this a try. The way he angles the top of his thumb one bevel further under could maybe give me the best of both worlds, the added stability I need to not drop the racquet and more upward RHS. I shall try it on the practice courts.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
Don't knock it until you try it, the proof is in the results :0. But yeah, if you are an adult and haven't built up super strong thumb strength like me, don't start out that way.
optic yellow
Legend
Will watch highlight compilation more closely.
Edit: I did and see it but it feels a bit more mild.
The one photo on the internet showing my backhand grip deserves a zombie bump and wall of text.
Picture #1: Thumb on bevel 7 eastern backhand drive grip (aka badminton thumb grip in hammer style)
I've used this grip for 35 years and here are my two coppers.
Advantages:
Insanely steady lower energy input shot which uses little wrist / elbow action. It's about the shoulder, stance and body turn. When I'm fully gassed I'll step around my FH to hit backhands.
The grip puts maximum beef behind the ball. This makes to easier to hit on the rise or to “chip with a drive swing path” It is not two-hander stable but the timing is more forgiving than a traditional eastern or conti grip.
Best grip ever to drive a low ball. The racket head is naturally neutral at contact.
Decreases tennis elbow possibility's due to lack of elbow pronate / supinate action.
Drawbacks:
There is NO WAY to have a modern style finish which will limit max velocity on wide cross court shots or anything at the top of the strike zone. The finish will look more like an 80’s to mid 90’s one hander. The lack of pronate / supinate action limits max topspin on a drive.
Hitting in a semi open stance is for the gifted.
Things to remember:
The thumb pad (the big fleshy area on the other side of the heel pad) is beefy but you can bruise it when just starting out.
Don’t “wrist” the shot unless you are in full recovery mode or trying to hit a loopy junk ball.
Why should you choose this grip:
#1. I can’t hit a two-hander
#2. Weak hand / grip strength
#3. Tennis elbow
#4. Completely naturally neutral racquet face at contact for easier timing.
#4. You love an Ivan Lendl backhand finish. Ok… modern backhand finishs look cooler in photos.
Picture #1: Thumb on bevel 7 eastern backhand drive grip (aka badminton thumb grip in hammer style)
I've used this grip for 35 years and here are my two coppers.
Advantages:
Insanely steady lower energy input shot which uses little wrist / elbow action. It's about the shoulder, stance and body turn. When I'm fully gassed I'll step around my FH to hit backhands.
The grip puts maximum beef behind the ball. This makes to easier to hit on the rise or to “chip with a drive swing path” It is not two-hander stable but the timing is more forgiving than a traditional eastern or conti grip.
Best grip ever to drive a low ball. The racket head is naturally neutral at contact.
Decreases tennis elbow possibility's due to lack of elbow pronate / supinate action.
Drawbacks:
There is NO WAY to have a modern style finish which will limit max velocity on wide cross court shots or anything at the top of the strike zone. The finish will look more like an 80’s to mid 90’s one hander. The lack of pronate / supinate action limits max topspin on a drive.
Hitting in a semi open stance is for the gifted.
Things to remember:
The thumb pad (the big fleshy area on the other side of the heel pad) is beefy but you can bruise it when just starting out.
Don’t “wrist” the shot unless you are in full recovery mode or trying to hit a loopy junk ball.
Why should you choose this grip:
#1. I can’t hit a two-hander
#2. Weak hand / grip strength
#3. Tennis elbow
#4. Completely naturally neutral racquet face at contact for easier timing.
#4. You love an Ivan Lendl backhand finish. Ok… modern backhand finishs look cooler in photos.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
I have the same thumb position and was self-conscious about it, but some have said it's ok to keep the thumb out, my BH was analyzed by Ryan of 2 minute tennis and he correctly asserted that I probably hit the BH very hard with all that drive behind it, however, despite him saying it's ok to keep the thumb, I can hit without it and will give it a try to change my bh a little. I'll keep the thumb for slices, it's so good for that as you say.
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