Ballinbob's New Backhand!! (vid)

Ballinbob · Jan 18, 2009

Hey guys

Got another vid of my backhand for you to critique. I think I'm hitting alot better than my last video, but I'll let you be the judge. And Behappy, I hope your happy now lol

Old rally vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq0wX9S4JWk
New Backhand vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHMuwaaoiOc
Newer Vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GTnEZwWDXc&feature=channel_page (I tried keep my arm straight in this one, and sorry its kinda messy) I'll post another vid in like 2 weeks when I get everything down
NewEST vid (watch this one)L:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GM0PI57BzI

Post away!

ThA_Azn_DeViL · Jan 18, 2009

I like it, something keeps bothering me though, I dont think your using very much shoulder pivoting, which allows you to rotate more, but definitely an improvement.

Ballinbob · Jan 18, 2009

thanks. Its been alot more consistent lately, but it still breaks down under pressure. Maybe I'm not using enough shoulder rotation, I dont know. Thats why I made this thread lol

BeHappy · Jan 18, 2009

Couple of things

1) You are still bending your arm on the take back, keep your arm straight and relaxed like the picture in the FAQ

2)You are still taking it back way to high, I said pocket height, not chest high.

3)You are still pointing the racket head up as opposed to straight back behind you.

Now I'm aware you want to have a pretty backhand, that's a lot of people's motivation for taking up the one hander, and at first, if you follow my instruction, you are going to have a backhand that looks like Blakes, as opposed to Justine Henin's, but just get those fundamentals down first, ok? Then you can start adding everything else.

Incidentally, look at this guys backhand, Petr Korda, 10 years ago this was everybody's favorite backhand, technically it's identical to what I'm showing you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Z-MaFtHfs&fmt=18

BTW, it looks like it's a lot better than before, , I'd say you were hitting the ball better?

Ballinbob · Jan 18, 2009

alright, will do. I'll work on it, and I might even be able to post yet another vid tomorrow. I don't really care about how pretty my backhand is to be honest. I don't see anything wrong with having Blake's backhand either lol. And yeah, I'm hitting my backhand alot cleaner than before and that's made a big difference

Like I said though, I'll get to work on this ASAP. My backhand is the only thing holding my ground game back, and once I get it down I'll be a much more dangerous opponent

BeHappy · Jan 18, 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCeXFXwUAz0&fmt=18

here's a much better video of Korda actually that first video was made by a french guy celebrating a french player, you can see how awesome it is here.

Jonny S&V · Jan 18, 2009

It's better, but you HAVE to let the racquet head drop below the ball, if only a little. Too much safety is better then too little.

BeHappy · Jan 18, 2009

can you see now why I said to practice those three positions in front of the mirror?

m27 · Jan 18, 2009

looks better than the old video
there are still problems, but you probably know that
1) takeback should be higher and further behind you. practice turning your head to the right as far as possible (without hurting yourself) and pulling your (right) shoulder in.
2) more torso turn. your back should be almost square to your opponent during your backswing.
3) you're rising far too early and its robbing you of all power. you need to understand the purpose of rising; like leaving your feet on a forehand, its not a cause, its an effect. this is why you feel off balance and unable to add power to the shot.
4) you're late most of the time. this is why your backhand feels rushed.
5) its hard to tell from the video, but it looks like you're wristing the shot. your wrist shouldnt move until after contact. this is why there is no power in your shot.
6) you need straighten your arm faster. right now, your forearm is parallel to the ground when your upper arm is perpendicular to the ground. it should be about 45 degrees.
7) you're not swinging low to high. yes, your racquet tends to go up a little after you hit the ball, but the ball doesnt care about that. your racquet head travels pretty much parallel to the ground until impact. this is why there is no topspin on your shots.

Ballinbob · Jan 18, 2009

Jonny S&V said:
It's better, but you HAVE to let the racquet head drop below the ball, if only a little. Too much safety is better then too little.

Yeah thanks. So I guess that's why I have a REALLY flat backhand then?

BeHappy said:
can you see now why I said to practice those three positions in front of the mirror?

Yeah I see why now. I'm off school tomorrow, so I can post another vid then too. Thanks for your help with everything btw, I really appreciate it. Believe me your advice isn't going to waste, I'm practicing every day for at least 2-3 hours. You will see results with my backhand, just give me some time and I'll get it

Jonny S&V · Jan 18, 2009

Ballinbob said:
Yeah thanks. So I guess that's why I have a REALLY flat backhand then?

Yeah, most all one-handers go through that stage though, so consider yourself one of the smarter ones for actually trying to make your technique better!

BeHappy · Jan 18, 2009

m27 said:
looks better than the old video
there are still problems, but you probably know that
1) takeback should be higher and further behind you. practice turning your head to the right as far as possible (without hurting yourself) and pulling your (right) shoulder in.
2) more torso turn. your back should be almost square to your opponent during your backswing.
3) you're rising far too early and its robbing you of all power. you need to understand the purpose of rising; like leaving your feet on a forehand, its not a cause, its an effect. this is why you feel off balance and unable to add power to the shot.
4) you're late most of the time. this is why your backhand feels rushed.
5) its hard to tell from the video, but it looks like you're wristing the shot. your wrist shouldnt move until after contact. this is why there is no power in your shot.
6) you need straighten your arm faster. right now, your forearm is parallel to the ground when your upper arm is perpendicular to the ground. it should be about 45 degrees.
7) you're not swinging low to high. yes, your racquet tends to go up a little after you hit the ball, but the ball doesnt care about that. your racquet head travels pretty much parallel to the ground until impact. this is why there is no topspin on your shots.

I know you mean well, but BallinBob you should ignore this guy.

Ballinbob · Jan 18, 2009

m27 said:
looks better than the old video
there are still problems, but you probably know that
1) takeback should be higher and further behind you. practice turning your head to the right as far as possible (without hurting yourself)

Wouldnt it be a good idea to shorten my takeback (pocket height) for now?

BeHappy · Jan 18, 2009

Ballinbob said:
Yeah thanks. So I guess that's why I have a REALLY flat backhand then?

Yeah I see why now. I'm off school tomorrow, so I can post another vid then too. Thanks for your help with everything btw, I really appreciate it. Believe me your advice isn't going to waste, I'm practicing every day for at least 2-3 hours. You will see results with my backhand, just give me some time and I'll get it

Good. I don't want to overload you with information, but let me just say thaat the point of the backswing is to lower you hand and racket to the position I told you to assume, which is with your hand by your pocket and your racket pointing behind you. If you swing straight to the finish from their you will get topspin don't worry.

Just practice those positions in front of the mirror, then get out on the court!

mikeler · Jan 18, 2009

It is a very compact stroke. My back swing is the same whether I slice the ball or hit topspin and is definitely higher than yours. I'm not sure whether that is something you need to change though.

On the follow through, I don't think you are getting your arm up high enough. Try and get your wrist at eye level on the follow through with your arm fully extended. This will allow you to get some more topspin on the ball and should provide a little more pop on it.

TheShaun · Jan 18, 2009

thanks for posting a vid. that takes some courage.

nice improvement. but as others have said, it looks like you're slapping the ball rather than taking a tennis swing. if that makes any sense. my backhand was very similar to yours, and when someone told me i was slapping the ball it made complete sense and i was able to picture a full swing rather than a slap. mine is still a work in progress too, i still slap when i get rushed.

keep working at it and keep posting.

m27 · Jan 18, 2009

BeHappy said:
I know you mean well, but BallinBob you should ignore this guy.

do you want to compare backhands?

and bob, do you think it would be a good idea to learn a forehand with a straight, waist-height backswing? do yourself a favor and learn a proper backhand. anyone who tells you otherwise just thinks you're too inept to learn the real thing.

Ballinbob · Jan 18, 2009

thanks guys for the advice, and yeah i'll definitley keep posting vids. This is the closest to private lessons as it gets. I'll brb, dinner..

BeHappy · Jan 18, 2009

I can't edit my post for some reason.

Anyway, that pocket position is what Henin, Gasquet, Kuerten etc all have in common, so when you're starting off you should go straight to it, then when it has become instinctive you can (if you want) go to a slice takeback and move your racket through that position from there.

BeHappy · Jan 18, 2009

You actually didn't reach an of the positions BallinBob, including the finish, I'm going to post the FAQ sticky post here:

BeHappy said:
The clearest, and to my knowledge most successful way of teaching the one hander imo is that of Robert Lansdorp, (coach of Sampras, davenport, sharapova, Tracy Austin and about 70 other top 100 players known for their powerful consistent groundstrokes),

As soon as you see the ball coming to your backhand, turn so you are standing sideways

put your hand to your pocket with the racket on edge, (i.e. perpendicular to the ground) low takeback to begin with, notice the fairly straight, relaxed arm:

Swing straight through the ball and finish with your hand at eye level, your racket on edge (perpendicular to the ground), and with your arm extended towards the target :

the finish from another angle, notice the arm is fairly straight

Basically swing to the finish, if you do that you should swing from low to high, and your racket face should be perpendicular when you hit the ball, as you both start and finish with the frame perpendicular to the ground/on edge, and so the ball shouldn't fly up into the air or into the bottom of the net due to an overly open or closed racket face.

Practice the start and finish position with a racket before you get on the court making sure your hand is at eye level, perpendicular racket head etc. Keep your arm fairly straight but relaxed throughout, this includes the take back.

Don't even try the high takeback till you have this down!

I'll edit in info about grips later, for now, suffice it to say that if you hit your backhand with a forehand grip, you are wasting your time.

Your takeback was chest high, with a (very!) bent arm.

Your follow through was chest high.

So you have a lot of work to do!

mental midget · Jan 18, 2009

bob, do you take lessons? if i were you, i'd see if i could scare up 60 bucks or whatever for one hour with a pro, face to face, in the real world.

i promise you, i'm not being a jerk here, but just watching your stroke, it's obvious you're trying to assimilate a barrage of well-intentioned advice; what you need is somebody standing right next to you, who can start to give you some idea of what it FEELS like to hit it properly.

coming here for advice is great, but tennis isn't air conditioner repair, it's not easy to learn via correspondence course.

m27 · Jan 18, 2009

anyway, if you want to learn a proper backhand, look no further than this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX7CcDIkMhE

Ballinbob · Jan 18, 2009

BeHappy said:
You actually didn't reach an of the positions BallinBob, including the finish, I'm going to post the FAQ sticky post here:

Your takeback was chest high, with a (very!) bent arm

Your follow through was chest high.

So you have a lot of work to do!

Yeah I know, but that just makes me want to work even harder until I get this down.

mental midget said:
bob, do you take lessons? if i were you, i'd see if i could scare up 60 bucks or whatever for one hour with a pro, face to face, in the real world.

i promise you, i'm not being a jerk here, but just watching your stroke, it's obvious you're trying to assimilate a barrage of well-intentioned advice; what you need is somebody standing right next to you, who can start to give you some idea of what it FEELS like to hit it properly.

coming here for advice is great, but tennis isn't air conditioner repair, it's not easy to learn via correspondence course.

I actually did take a lesson with a pro last week (around there). This was my first private lesson ever. He noticed I had alot of timing issues, so we went through my forehand,backhand, and serve and fixed the timing problems I had. He gave me a few pointers for my backhand that got me to where I am now, but really we worked on timing. I really liked him though, I'm hitting everything alot more cleanly now and its helped alot. I mean, I realize I have alot of work to do on my backhand, but I'm hitting it alot cleaner than before and it feels great.

edit- There's also this 4.5 player (hes a legit 4.5, he has results at that level), and he's been really nice to me and we hit like once a week and he helps me out. He's not a teaching pro, but he still helps me alot

BeHappy · Jan 18, 2009

m27 said:
sure they do. they pass it. its a checkpoint. would you advocate someone hit a forehand by starting with the racquet 12 inches back from the contact point? I dont understand why he can't learn an actual backhand without being hobbled by training wheels. tennis is not that difficult. he's clearly got the desire to learn.

It's not a checkpoint, it's the checkpoint. It's where you begin to hit your backhand, everything before that is about getting the racket to that position. It is the point from which you swing forward and up, unlike your forehand analogy in which you mention an intermittent point in the forward swing.

There is an equivelent in the forehand swing of this position, if you go straight to it, it doesn't look pretty, but it works exactly as well. See jim courier,:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCeXFXwUAz0&fmt=18

Or Venus williams' two hander:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8tgrGMnr5g&fmt=18

Or agassi's for that matter.

Or Korda's one hander
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCeXFXwUAz0&fmt=18

Or Rod Laver (5 foot 8 inches tall with a wooden racket ffs!) Hitting the living crap out of the ball

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q13_STOUBc&fmt=18
2nd point

BeHappy · Jan 18, 2009

Ballinbob said:
Yeah I know, but that just makes me want to work even harder until I get this down. I'll have another vid up tomorrow afternoon-ish (unless something happens), and hopefully I can get the straight arm thing down. I'm going to work on one thing a day and go from there.

I actually did take a lesson with a pro last week (around there). This was my first private lesson ever. He noticed I had alot of timing issues, so we went through my forehand,backhand, and serve and fixed the timing problems I had. He gave me a few pointers for my backhand that got me to where I am now, but really we worked on timing. I really liked him though, I'm hitting everything alot more cleanly now and its helped alot. I mean, I realize I have alot of work to do on my backhand, but I'm hitting it alot cleaner than before and it feels great.

That's a great attitude. Just go in front of a mirror, get all those positions down and head to the courts, that's really all there is to it. If you head to the courts before getting the positions down you are dooming yourself to failure though!

Ballinbob · Jan 18, 2009

Behappy, printed the page off with the positions on it and going to practice now. It looks like such a simple stroke on paper, and then when you try it it's a whole different story..

BeHappy · Jan 18, 2009

Ballinbob said:
Behappy, printed the page off with the positions on it and going to practice now. It looks like such a simple stroke on paper, and then when you try it it's a whole different story..

That's great. It's just two positions you have to get down, just practice the two positions in front of the mirror, don't just look at the pictures, read the sentences above them too. it's very important. Once you have the two positions down, slowly swing straight from the first position to the second, then get out on the court and try it. Good luck!

oneguy21 · Jan 18, 2009

Take back looks pretty good, but there's something about the execution that seems awkard. If it works for you I guess it's not that big of a problem.

Are you hitting topspin? It kind of looks like your swing up but your scraping the bottom of the ball so you're imparting underspin.

Ballinbob · Jan 18, 2009

ugh, m27, I know your trying to help an all, but now Im confused. BB, where are you lol..? Behappy's advice sounds good to me, but m27's makes sense too but in a different way. I wish I knew more about this so I could judge who's right, but honestly I don't know. I think Behappy's approach isn't bad though, just get the basics down and get a consistent backhand going then add the flashy parts later.

Okay yeah Im confused lol....

edit- Behappy, please don't think I'm insulting you or anything. I just find it a little confusing that m27 has a completley different approach to learning the backhand. I don't really like m27, but he seems like he's trying to help. Maybe hes way off and hes wrong, but I dont know. I like the idea of getting the basics down though

Ballinbob · Jan 18, 2009

oneguy21 said:
Take back looks pretty good, but there's something about the execution that seems awkard. If it works for you I guess it's not that big of a problem.

Are you hitting topspin? It kind of looks like your swing up but your scraping the bottom of the ball so you're imparting underspin.

I'm hitting flat. I literally have no spin on that thing, I doubt it even has like 1rpm of topspin. I'll have another vid up tomorrow, and hopefully I'll be hitting with more topspin

mikeler · Jan 18, 2009

Look at Federer's follow through in BeHappy's post, that is what you need to do.

m27 · Jan 18, 2009

Ballinbob said:
ugh, m27, I know your trying to help an all, but now Im confused. BB, where are you lol..? Behappy's advice sounds good to me, but m27's makes sense too but in a different way. I wish I knew more about this so I could judge who's right, but honestly I don't know. I think Behappy's approach isn't bad though, just get the basics down and get a consistent backhand going then add the flashy parts later.

Okay yeah Im confused lol....

backswings are not flashy. they're integral to the motion. try hitting a forehand without a backswing and you'll realize how much you're missing.

if you want step by step instructions, here they are.
at the peak of the backswing (starting point of the swing)...
turn your torso counter clockwise as far as you can without straining yourself.
turn your head clockwise until your chin is on center top of your shoulder (not touching, but directly above). it is very important that both eyes can see the ball as you watch it approach (rather than your head being turned sideways so that only your right eye can see it).
your (right) upper arm should be pointing directly at the back fence (or as far backwards as you can comfortably go), with your elbow level with your chest. your arm is bent at the elbow, about 45 degrees above straight.
your left arm is behind you, with your upper arm roughly in line with your shoulders. your left hand is holding onto the throat of the racquet.
knees bent

The_Steak · Jan 18, 2009

Bob, you back hand looks extremely cramped. Remember to straighten that arm out. Looks like a lot of wrist action, keep that arm nice and firm.

Best thing I would recommend is that you do not listen to m27. Adding that extra loop looks "prettier" but if you are having timing issues like you say, keep it nice and easy and just a straight back backswing.

oneguy21 · Jan 18, 2009

mikeler said:
Look at Federer's follow through in BeHappy's post, that is what you need to do.

yes, go to youtube and watch a slow mo video of Federer's backhand. Focus on his follow through and try to imitate. Sorry, but I'm too lazy to post the link.

Ballinbob · Jan 18, 2009

The_Steak said:
Bob, you back hand looks extremely cramped. Remember to straighten that arm out. Looks like a lot of wrist action, keep that arm nice and firm.

Best thing I would recommend is that you do not listen to m27. Adding that extra loop looks "prettier" but if you are having timing issues like you say, keep it nice and easy and just a straight back backswing.

ahh, ok thanks for that. Yes I have timing issues, they've gotten alot better but I still have trouble with timing. I'm going with Behappy's advice then, and I'll practice those positions.

raiden031 · Jan 18, 2009

It looks like you are staying sideways the whole time and not opening up.

I would suggest you watch www.fuzzyyellowballs.com backhand videos and then practice the technique in your house before going out on the court and hitting balls.

m27 · Jan 18, 2009

Ballinbob said:
Your telling me it doesn't make sense for you to learn the basics of the 1hbh first then develop them over time? I don't think my backhand will ever be my best stroke, and I just want it to be a consistent shot (which it definitley is NOT right now). I think Behappy's advice will allow for a consistent backhand, I mean, it makes sense

What exactly is wrong with Behappy's advice? It seems to me you just don't like the reduced takeback part? I'll just start out with a reduced takeback then I'll go to a bigger one once I got the basics down.

I think you are going to develop a twitchy, pushy backhand.

Ballinbob · Jan 18, 2009

m27 said:
I think you are going to develop a twitchy, pushy backhand.

I guess I'm just going to have to take that risk then

mental midget · Jan 18, 2009

lessons! stop the madness, seriously. you seem like you're really into it. do yourself a favor and do it right.

Jonny S&V · Jan 18, 2009

Ok, I'm gonna clear this up once and for all...

To m27, I have actually been hitting the backhand that you describe for a long time but I changed it at my tournament this weekend to a "Kuerten-esque" backhand and my backhand's consistency, pace, and spin went up 10-fold. My coach has tried for the longest time to get me to simplify my game, especially my backhand (he leaves the forehand to me to get what gives me the best results) and now I realize he's right. You DON'T teach beginners/intermediates a shoulder high takeback, no matter how good they are...

To BeHappy, kudos for sticking to your guns, I'm not a fan of flip-floppers (*coughromneycough*).

To BallinBob, you need to work on your backhand technique but:

1. Don't try to implement everything at once.
2. Make sure that it is comfortable to you.
3. Rule #2 takes priority over rule #1

Ahh, I feel better now...

BeHappy · Jan 18, 2009

Jonny S&V said:
Ok, I'm gonna clear this up once and for all...

To m27, I have actually been hitting the backhand that you describe for a long time but I changed it at my tournament this weekend to a "Kuerten-esque" backhand and my backhand's consistency, pace, and spin went up 10-fold. My coach has tried for the longest time to get me to simplify my game, especially my backhand (he leaves the forehand to me to get what gives me the best results) and now I realize he's right. You DON'T teach beginners/intermediates a shoulder high takeback, no matter how good they are...

To BeHappy, kudos for sticking to your guns, I'm not a fan of flip-floppers (*coughromneycough*).

To BallinBob, you need to work on your backhand technique but:

1. Don't try to implement everything at once.
2. Make sure that it is comfortable to you.
3. Rule #2 takes priority over rule #1

Ahh, I feel better now...

Just to reiterate, those are just the fundamentals, if he wants to go to a slice high take back after mastering them that's fine, those are just the fundamentals.

Jonny S&V · Jan 18, 2009

BeHappy said:
Just to reiterate, those are just the fundamentals, if he wants to go to a slice high take back after mastering them that's fine, those are just the fundamentals.

Yeah, I know that, I was talking about the flat/topspin backhand.

Ballinbob · Jan 18, 2009

BeHappy said:
Just to reiterate, those are just the fundamentals, if he wants to go to a slice high take back after mastering them that's fine, those are just the fundamentals.

Hey sorry for doubting you, I just got a little confused that's all. I know what to do/how to go about improving my backhand now, and I love the simple approach you have.

BeHappy · Jan 18, 2009

Jonny S&V said:
Yeah, I know that, I was talking about the flat/topspin backhand.

so am I .

The_Steak · Jan 18, 2009

How often are you going to hit with a private teacher?

m27 · Jan 18, 2009

Jonny S&V said:
Ok, I'm gonna clear this up once and for all...

To m27, I have actually been hitting the backhand that you describe for a long time but I changed it at my tournament this weekend to a "Kuerten-esque" backhand and my backhand's consistency, pace, and spin went up 10-fold.

I'm confused. Kuerten had one of the highest takebacks in the game, past or present. Either I'm misunderstanding you or you're contradicting yourself.

Ballinbob · Jan 18, 2009

The_Steak said:
How often are you going to hit with a private teacher?

Not much. I have to pay for my lessons, and as a 15 year old I don't really have the money to spend 50$ on lessons very much. Im not old enough to have a job yet (although im still trying), and I get 20$ a month allowance. That's why I'm trying to make the most out of this forum. I want to get better, but I cant do it by myself so I need your guys' help.

edit- I think its funny how many posts I get when I put up threads. This thread has been up for 2 hours and Ive gotten like 60 posts lol.

RoddickAce · Jan 18, 2009

m27 said:
I'm confused. Kuerten had one of the highest takebacks in the game, past or present. Either I'm misunderstanding you or you're contradicting yourself.

I'm no expert on technical stuff, but I also thought it was better to have a higher takeback too. After I started taking my racquet back higher, I got more spin and consistency. But I'm don't know...

m27 · Jan 18, 2009

Jonny S&V said:
His was straight back but his follow through was high, contrary to how you think the backhand should be hit.

What the hell are you talking about? Kuerten had a higher takeback than anyone. How does that in any way contradict my advice?

Jonny S&V · Jan 18, 2009

m27 said:
What the hell are you talking about? Kuerten had a higher takeback than anyone. How does that in any way contradict my advice?

His racquet head dropped more than what you suggest, smart one...

Ballinbob's New Backhand!! (vid)

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