Is Sampras the GOAT (yes/no)?
- Thread starter Bud
- Start date
rubberduckies
Professional
He is GOAT by the metric he created himself.
If Borg had been operating under the same Tour mindset, there isn't a chance in hell he doesn't get more than 14.
If Borg had been operating under the same Tour mindset, there isn't a chance in hell he doesn't get more than 14.
Leublu tennis
Legend
No kidding? Laver, Tilden, Connors, etc disregarded??
Leublu tennis
Legend
Oh, I voted no. Would have voted h*** no, if that were given as a choice.
GameSampras
Banned
In my biased opinion he is. 
Realistically? There is no GOAT in tennis. Too difficult to compare the eras and the best of each era objectively. Tennis is one sport that I just dont think here is a GOAT for to be honest.
Of course maybe none of the sports. You can argue for and against many players. You can argue MJ, Wilt, Russell, Kareem in NBA. All have legit cases.
At the end of the day its just opinions. Numbers and stats arent the be all end all in sports.
Realistically? There is no GOAT in tennis. Too difficult to compare the eras and the best of each era objectively. Tennis is one sport that I just dont think here is a GOAT for to be honest.
Of course maybe none of the sports. You can argue for and against many players. You can argue MJ, Wilt, Russell, Kareem in NBA. All have legit cases.
At the end of the day its just opinions. Numbers and stats arent the be all end all in sports.
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GameSampras
Banned
People have to remember though.. If Laver got to play the pro tour during his prime years, he would have had 20 slams or more.
Are slams the only measuring stick? I dunno. Slam counts never really became important until Pete started chasing Emerson
Are slams the only measuring stick? I dunno. Slam counts never really became important until Pete started chasing Emerson
GameSampras
Banned
Btw.. I can tell this thread is going to be quite a few pages. There will be a rumble. I just get that feeling
S H O W S T O P P E R !
Hall of Fame
Oh god, another goat thread. I'll get outta here before the *********s, Samprastards, *******s and the likes get here.
egn
Hall of Fame
=[ why are there no lavertards..I think I am going to become one. =]
Leublu tennis
Legend
Thats for sure. And, quite frankly, I am not overly optimistic that Nadal will make it either.
GameSampras
Banned
Nadal will have a case most likely if he can stay healthy and keep on the winning ways and continue his dominance. But who knows if he can. Just 2-3 years ago Fed was already being considered the hands down GOAT, now look. Alot can happen in the span of a few years. Nadal needs quite a few more years on top to prove his worthiness as GOAT.
Re: Nadal, he spent so long at number 2, I feel it took him a little too long to overcome Federer. He's got a lot more miles behind him than most 22-year-olds. He'll have to stay at the top of the game another 4 or 5 years at least to be in GOAT contention. And that's no easy feat. But who knows? Maybe he'll do it.
JoshDragon
Hall of Fame
No, he couldn't win the French so he can't be the GOAT.
GameSampras
Banned
4-5 more years? Doubtful.. Extremely doubtful. Nadal has a lot of miles on those legs and alot wear and tear. Not good for any sense of longevity. The older you get especially Nadal, the more he will be feeling those matches the next morning when he rolls out of bed. If Nadal is even around in 5 years I will be surprised. I give Nadal 2-3 years at the very most to where he MAYBE can win more slams. Once the wheels go on Nadal, hes finished though. He relies on his movement too much and lacks weapons which would help him win easy, free points.
Unless nadal somehow devlops a Roddick, Karlovic, or Sampras serve in the next year
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egn
Hall of Fame
Exactly why Laver is the GOAT...he won 7 unique majors..lol I am liking this Lavertard thing.
Australian Open
French Open
Wimbledon
US Open
Wembley (London Indoor)
U.S Pro
French Pro
who else can claim 7 majors on 3 different surfaces..grass, clay, and indoor wood..nobody. Hence Laver being GOAT.
Lol I can sense this is going to be fun..
GameSampras
Banned
Bud
Bionic Poster
Lol... next poll I'll add a H*** No! option. That's 'Heck' to the moderators :wink:
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egn
Hall of Fame
No thats "Most achieved" not GREATEST. LOL
Most achieved is presented and proved by numerics. Greatest is OPINION.
OH NO YOU DIDNT! Lol.
If Laver was around today he would be making fools of everyone with their lame baseliner styles and destroyed on the wicked fast grass of the 90s...Sampras and Federer would be crying and forget what Nadal would be doing.
What I fear even more now is people not recognizing my sarcasm and I accidentally start a flame war. However Laver is still GOAT in my eyes under my honest opinion. Laver dominated his era, was number 1 for a long period of time, won tons and tons of titles and when he was on (see 1969) did not let anyone get in his way. Besides winning a calendar year slam is hard enough amateur or pro but doing it twice...that's ridiculous.
Bud
Bionic Poster
I hear ya... was just measuring the current feeling of Sampras and GOAT status.
GameSampras
Banned
egn
Hall of Fame
Obviously Pete is not going to get any GOAT love around these parts.
Apparently most achieved equates to the GOAT title. I dunno if thats true or not. But thats everyone's perogative. I dont have to agree with it though
Well obviously if Pete had gotten his act together and won that damn calendar slam.... =] lol lol
GameSampras
Banned
Thats the only way to really prove it my man. The only way. Everything else is subjective. Besides the numbers. But thats not fair to judge the GOAT based on pure number alone when comparing eras. WInning the numbers race means you were the most achieved of all time. Does it really mean you are the "greatest?" Not necessarily. The greatest is a subjecive term. . The only way to prove the greatest is to stick the greatest in the same era and have them duke it out
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egn
Hall of Fame
yea but cue the whiny technology freak...and then this time machine theory goes out the window was now every player needs some 1 year prep time with the technology of the era they are going to...
Ljubicic for number1
Hall of Fame
Lance Armstrong is the GOAT of sport.
Pete is GOAT of tennis.
Pete is GOAT of tennis.
Obviously Pete is not going to get any GOAT love around these parts.
I think anyone who wins the Grand Slam twice deserves a lovefest. Would you bebrudge Nadal or Federer one if they ever pulled it off.
Tennis_Monk
Hall of Fame
Federer is already better than Sampras. Only 1GS less but has more french open finals to show. So the question of Sampras as a GOAT doesnt even come into play.
Now where does Federer himself rank among the GOAT argument...hmmm a diff argument outside context of this poll.
Bottom line : Sampras is no longer a GOAT candidate.
Now where does Federer himself rank among the GOAT argument...hmmm a diff argument outside context of this poll.
Bottom line : Sampras is no longer a GOAT candidate.
Federer is NOT better than Sampras at this point in time. I am a bigger Federer fan than a Sampras fan but this simply is not true. Fewer slams, yes only one fewer but still fewer at the moment, pitiful record vs his main rival, 2 years short of matching Pete's year end #1 record, inferior record at Wimbledon, like Pete failed to win the French, questionable longevity especialy compared to Sampras if he doesnt turn his current momentum around.
Bud
Bionic Poster
This will be a major factor with Nadal's longevity. If he could develop his serve into a weapon... he'd be almost unbeatable on any surface. It will allow him to end points much more quickly.
Bud
Bionic Poster
I agree.
Federer is almost like Pete's Mini-Me... their game is very similar and their achievements are also very similar at this point in time. Federer is also racing against the clock for GS titles.
clayman2000
Hall of Fame
Finally someone understands that most GS wins isnt everything.
Anyways, if the GOAT meant the person who played the best tennis in his prime, we could mention Nalbandian, Safin, Tsonga to the list. However the GOAT is the player who has had the best average of:
length, achievments, greatness, fighting ability
While Sampras is decent in all categories, he does not have everyhitng done
For example, By age 30 he had declined a lot. Federer will be 30 in 1.5 years, and its likely that hell still be top 5, contending for GS's. Sampras never won the FO, he was lucky that his time the best were mainly baseliners
Tennis_Monk
Hall of Fame
Sorry dude. Pitiful record against a player or two doesnt diminish other great acheivements. I will apply the same logic and say Sampras couldnt win againt Federer at Wimbledon clearly showing that he is an inferior player-- though i wouldnt.
Sampras didnt even come close to winning a french open..forget winning he didnt even come close to contesting for french title.
Federer on the other hand, came as close as two sets to winning a calendar Grandslam.
Like it or not, Federer has been more dominant and more consistent.
Guess what once he wins another slam , Game completely over for Sampras. Federer wins by most counts.
I really want Federer to win one more slam just to shut this argument by people who think Sampras is tennis god. He is a great player but no means wth out flaws.
Aren't they all??
Sampras does not have a poor record vs any of his main rivals. Krajicek and Stich are NOT "main" rivals, and his record vs them is nothing near as bad as Federer vs Nadal. Federer's poor record vs Nadal is a big mark against him in potential GOAT discussions, you are kidding himself if you think otherwise.
Federer did better than Sampras at the French of course. You see the thing is he still didnt win the French. That is the only thing that would really matter, if either of them had been good enough on clay to win the French even once. Since neither won the French even once it really doesnt matter or mean anything really, despite that Federer did better at the French. Lendl did better at Wimbledon than Sampras at the French, Borg better at the U.S Open than Sampras at the French, but you dont hear anyone talk about that much do you. All that matters for each of these great players it they failed to win 1 of the biggest events in the world. Ultimately it is a mark equally against each, it doesnt matter which came closest when you are talking about players of that caliber.
Close but no cigar. Tough luck.
I already said I like Federer more than Sampras. However Federer at this point cannot be ranked over Sampras by any objectionable measure.
Once he wins another slam? Are you so sure it is a sure thing anymore.
Tennis_Monk
Hall of Fame
Sure. Every player except the TW forum members have some flaws in their games.
The question is most Sampras fans over look their players obvious flaws but more than happy to point out Other player's. I am just trying to be objective (though my bias towards Federer is obvious) and indicate that Sampras argument for GOAT is lil hollow.
How is Federer's GOAT argument not hollow? What are his biggest records?
Not most weeks at #1. Not most years at #1. Not most slam titles. Not most Wimbledons. Not most U.S Opens (tied for Open era but not ahead). Not most Australian Opens (even Open era). Not the Calender Slam or even Career Slam. Not the best W-L of any given year (he had a chance to tie McEnroe's Open Era mark and failed). Not the most tournaments won in any year. Not even close to the most tournaments won for a career. Not the most Masters titles. Not the longest match win streak.
Poor record vs his biggest rival, and increasingly poor records vs a couple of other main rivals. Questionable longevity, especialy if he doesnt turn things around. This is a strong argument for the GOAT?
Tennis_Monk
Hall of Fame
You may be right (or not as i can challenge u r assertions). Most important thing is If Fed's case is Hollow then Sampras is Hallower.
I really dont care who the real GOAT is. It can never be objectively determined (may be subjectively there is a possibility). All i care about is Fed better than Sampras. The answer is most cases is resounding yes. Sampras is not even in contention when it comes to CLAY. Federer is an accomplished Clay player. Fed won GS much quicker than Sampras did.
colonelforbin
Rookie
But he does have the most consecutive weeks at #1, and unquestionably the most dominant four years of any player. And it is likely he will break the slam record. He may not be doing so well right now, but realistically his slump hasn't been going on for so long. He won the US Open less than a year ago. If you look back at Agassi's slump in 97/98, he was doing much much worse (falling into the 100s). And he still managed to right the ship. Federer's still at #2 and 27 years-old. It is highly probable he will win a few more slams, despite his current performance. He's too talented not to sneak a few more in there. And if he doesn't, well, we'll have to wait until the end of his career to find out and only then can we honestly assess his GOAT candidacy.
380pistol
Banned
Can't do it like that B. Laver won 6 of 11 slams between 1960 and 1962 when Rosewall and Hoad couldn't compete. If we're compensating Laver for the slams he missed, Hoad and Rosewall need to be compensated the same. Laver keeps his 5 from the open era, and then one must figure out how many gets based on abilites other pros still being able to compete in slams.
Also you'd have to players like Borg, Sampras and Federer and try an estimate how they would have done back in those times, and transplant Laver forward and estimate what (and others) would do in this modern climate.
