Coaching in between sets

WARPWOODIE · May 27, 2009

I know that coaching during matches are not allowed. However, I was wondering what your thoughts were on allowing coaching in between sets during a rest break. Lets consider the cut off is up to 12 years old, meaning allow coaching for kids in the 8-12 year old bracket.

This thought came about from observing several junior events, specifically in the novice ranks, where a little coaching may help a kid who is behind in score, to help them get more focused or, be advised of errors and game strategy.

Please chime in and debate the merits of this idea.

DownTheLine · May 27, 2009

I think it should be aloud even during change overs.

charliefedererer · May 27, 2009

Kids (and many adults) often are overly critical of themselves. The best "coaching" probably would be some positive remarks, hopefully to add some encouragement and advice to stick to the basic game plan to the player who is behind.
But it would be have to be severely limited to say only between sets, and without extra time for the changeover, or else it is going to be abused.

Tom C · May 27, 2009

At the zonals, coaching is allowed during changeovers... Sometimes it may be just a positive comment or two while other times it can be more strategy like. At the 2007 zonals we were allowed to coach a la the college game and that was fantastic.

scraps234 · May 27, 2009

i think maybe 12 and under and only in between sets so after the 1st set then you can get help... i guess i could be good to get more help though... both ideas would work

eeytennis · May 28, 2009

WARPWOODIE said:
I know that coaching during matches are not allowed. However, I was wondering what your thoughts were on allowing coaching in between sets during a rest break. Lets consider the cut off is up to 12 years old, meaning allow coaching for kids in the 8-12 year old bracket.

This thought came about from observing several junior events, specifically in the novice ranks, where a little coaching may help a kid who is behind in score, to help them get more focused or, be advised of errors and game strategy.

Please chime in and debate the merits of this idea.

I think it's a bad idea. My coach always used to tell me that it's very important to learn how to think for yourself on the tennis court and I think that that is part of the game of tennis. Also, I think that if kids have started competitive play at that age, then it's good for them to learn how to stay mentally strong and such for when they get older.

BradBaughman · May 28, 2009

eeytennis said:
I think it's a bad idea. My coach always used to tell me that it's very important to learn how to think for yourself on the tennis court and I think that that is part of the game of tennis. Also, I think that if kids have started competitive play at that age, then it's good for them to learn how to stay mentally strong and such for when they get older.

when you were young say the age of 8 or 9 did someone hand you a math book and tell you ,you need to learn on your own or were they kind enough to help you out maybe even hire you a tutor.

Tennis should be a hands on sport early on and by the time the player is about 12 he could start handling it on his/her own.

tenniscrazed · May 28, 2009

BradBaughman said:
when you were young say the age of 8 or 9 did someone hand you a math book and tell you ,you need to learn on your own or were they kind enough to help you out maybe even hire you a tutor.

Tennis should be a hands on sport early on and by the time the player is about 12 he could start handling it on his/her own.

I think, for once I actually agree with you

flat · May 29, 2009

tenniscrazed said:
I think, for once I actually agree with you

I also believe coaching should be allowed in junior tennis...for the same reasons stated above. I'm not sure why it should stop at 12...

Heck, I'm for coaching at all levels, come to think of it. I'm not sure why people thinks tennis so great because of no coaching...but that's a separate argument...

eeytennis · May 29, 2009

BradBaughman said:
when you were young say the age of 8 or 9 did someone hand you a math book and tell you ,you need to learn on your own or were they kind enough to help you out maybe even hire you a tutor.

Tennis should be a hands on sport early on and by the time the player is about 12 he could start handling it on his/her own.

Math and tennis are two different things. With tennis, I think that when someone plays a lot of matches they eventually learn themselves how to set up points and to stay mentally tough on the court. If they grow as tennis players without being dependent on their coaches' mid-match tips or words of advice, then that will benefit them in the future. My husband has a student of his who is young and completely a one dimensional player for the most part. She loves to hit the crap out of the ball, but when it comes to setting up the points and taking advantage of certain shots...that is a part of her game that at the moment is very much lacking. However, eventually, she will learn (with more match play) to play a little bit smarter and she won't need anyone on the court to walk her through it. She will have learned by herself.

TennisCoachFLA · May 29, 2009

tenniscrazed said:
I think, for once I actually agree with you

Me too! I have no problem with allowing coaching up to age 12.

TennisCoachFLA · May 29, 2009

eeytennis said:
Math and tennis are two different things. With tennis, I think that when someone plays a lot of matches they eventually learn themselves how to set up points and to stay mentally tough on the court. If they grow as tennis players without being dependent on their coaches' mid-match tips or words of advice, then that will benefit them in the future. My husband has a student of his who is young and completely a one dimensional player for the most part. She loves to hit the crap out of the ball, but when it comes to setting up the points and taking advantage of certain shots...that is a part of her game that at the moment is very much lacking. However, eventually, she will learn (with more match play) to play a little bit smarter and she won't need anyone on the court to walk her through it. She will have learned by herself.

You seem to be making a case for both sides. If this girl had in match coaching at a young age, perhaps she would expand her game faster? I know with under 12 players in every other sport you have to constantly remind them about things during games. The good ones always flip the switch and start doing it on their own as they age.

Like others have said, I don't think coaching would cause players to be more dependent. A young basketball point guard who is reminded by the coach eventually becomes a brilliant leader at directing a team by himself. Same with a baseball catcher calling pitches. Same with a football quaterback.

I am not sure why tennis should be any different than other sports, eventually a leader leads...whether they are leading a team or leading themselves.

eeytennis · May 29, 2009

TennisCoachFLA said:
You seem to be making a case for both sides. If this girl had in match coaching at a young age, perhaps she would expand her game faster? I know with under 12 players in every other sport you have to constantly remind them about things during games. The good ones always flip the switch and start doing it on their own as they age.

Like others have said, I don't think coaching would cause players to be more dependent. A young basketball point guard who is reminded by the coach eventually becomes a brilliant leader at directing a team by himself. Same with a baseball catcher calling pitches. Same with a football quaterback.

I am not sure why tennis should be any different than other sports, eventually a leader leads...whether they are leading a team or leading themselves.

I see your point of view...however, you know those kids that are always looking at their parents after a point? Whether it's to recieve illegal coaching or just for emotional support? Those kids (at least in my experience) aren't usually as strong mentally as the players who don't look up at their parents. They are usually the one's that throw temper tantrums on the court and choke up during matches I think that on-court coaching would just exacerbate that sort of situation. Just my opinion though.

And you compare tennis to football and basketball...I don't know if that's a fair comparison...tennis is a sport that involves so much self-motivation, and so do other sports, but in other sports you have a team to lean on. Which is why I think it's important to develop that self sufficiency in match play early on.

And one more thing to add...there were times when I would be playing matches and I would HATE when my coach came out to talk to me. I preferred not being coached on the changeovers...but maybe that's just me

.

tenniscrazed · May 29, 2009

flat said:
I also believe coaching should be allowed in junior tennis...for the same reasons stated above. I'm not sure why it should stop at 12...

Heck, I'm for coaching at all levels, come to think of it. I'm not sure why people thinks tennis so great because of no coaching...but that's a separate argument...

On that point, I think it's done at the team tennis level (Davis Cup, NCAA, high school, etc). I also think the WTA tested some type of program in which it was allowed on changeovers.

I think the argument to NOT have it as they get older, is the affordability issue. In otherwords, Tom's family can afford a pro to coach, while Johns family is self coached. I think as they get older 1) this is a valid argument and 2) they do need to think on their own.

TennisCoachFLA · May 29, 2009

eeytennis said:
I see your point of view...however, you know those kids that are always looking at their parents after a point? Whether it's to recieve illegal coaching or just for emotional support? Those kids (at least in my experience) aren't usually as strong mentally as the players who don't look up at their parents. They are usually the one's that throw temper tantrums on the court and choke up during matches I think that on-court coaching would just exacerbate that sort of situation. Just my opinion though.

And you compare tennis to football and basketball...I don't know if that's a fair comparison...tennis is a sport that involves so much self-motivation, and so do other sports, but in other sports you have a team to lean on. Which is why I think it's important to develop that self sufficiency in match play early on.

And one more thing to add...there were times when I would be playing matches and I would HATE when my coach came out to talk to me. I preferred not being coached on the changeovers...but maybe that's just me .

Good points. This was a good thread to start as both sides can make good arguments.

flat · May 29, 2009

eeytennis said:
And you compare tennis to football and basketball...I don't know if that's a fair comparison...tennis is a sport that involves so much self-motivation, and so do other sports, but in other sports you have a team to lean on. Which is why I think it's important to develop that self sufficiency in match play early on.

But if we compare tennis to any other individual sport out there. Boxing (corner man), Golf (caddy)...I'm not sure if your argument holds water.

Yes, certainly they will be more independent, you will weed out the "weaker minds", players will be more self sufficient, etc, if you don't have a coach.

But I'm not sure I care. I care about players playing the best tennis out there on the court, and able to reach & play at that level much more consistently. To that end, a coach will help.

Taking it to the extreme...do you think the TV audience cares more about the quality of tennis being played, or care about whether who is more self motivated?

flat · May 29, 2009

tenniscrazed said:
On that point, I think it's done at the team tennis level (Davis Cup, NCAA, high school, etc). I also think the WTA tested some type of program in which it was allowed on changeovers.

I think the argument to NOT have it as they get older, is the affordability issue. In otherwords, Tom's family can afford a pro to coach, while Johns family is self coached. I think as they get older 1) this is a valid argument and 2) they do need to think on their own.

That's a good point. The actual implementation of a coach system would take more thought (can the coach make line calls?

). But this is orthogonal to the question of whether the game of tennis would benefit from coaching or not (either juniors, or even at all levels).

TennisCoachFLA · May 29, 2009

flat said:
But if we compare tennis to any other individual sport out there. Boxing (corner man), Golf (caddy)...I'm not sure if your argument holds water.

Yes, certainly they will be more independent, you will weed out the "weaker minds", players will be more self sufficient, etc, if you don't have a coach.

But I'm not sure I care. I care about players playing the best tennis out there on the court, and able to reach & play at that level much more consistently. To that end, a coach will help.

Taking it to the extreme...do you think the TV audience cares more about the quality of tennis being played, or care about whether who is more self motivated?

Also, I brought up those team sports specifically for the kids who have to become leaders later on and act like a coach on the floor.....point guards, quaterbacks, catchers.

I also have coached lots of youth basketball. You start out coaching your point guard when they are very young...pretty much on every play. In a few years the good ones are better at handling the decisions on the court than the coach, they have the best feel for the flow of the game.

That would be the ideal result of tennis coaching. Correct the issues as they arise, remind the kids to utilize all their shots and strategy. Then step further and further away as they become their own best coach.

BradBaughman · May 29, 2009

eeytennis said:
Math and tennis are two different things. With tennis, I think that when someone plays a lot of matches they eventually learn themselves how to set up points and to stay mentally tough on the court. If they grow as tennis players without being dependent on their coaches' mid-match tips or words of advice, then that will benefit them in the future. My husband has a student of his who is young and completely a one dimensional player for the most part. She loves to hit the crap out of the ball, but when it comes to setting up the points and taking advantage of certain shots...that is a part of her game that at the moment is very much lacking. However, eventually, she will learn (with more match play) to play a little bit smarter and she won't need anyone on the court to walk her through it. She will have learned by herself.

i will bet whats left in my 401k against yours this person on their own will not change ,unless they get real frustrated and you know hire a coach !

BTW this sport is a math problem completely its a mixture of geometry percentages and some force +physics +gravity LOL

T1000 · May 30, 2009

No

Players need to learn how to win the match without help. I think coaches are there to analyze what happened in the match and how to improve, not to tell the player how to win

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