Is the swingweight of Verdasco's racquet really 280???

PurePrestige · Sep 10, 2009

@ sureshs,
yeah, I suppose that is mistyped, I am aware it's headlight, I meant to say that it is considerably more head heavy than federer/verdasco. Nadal is somewhere around 2-3 pts headlight, while Federer and Verdasco are somewhere in the 8-9 pts headlight area.

ART ART · Sep 10, 2009

PurePrestige said:
As for Roger, he uses a swingweight in the 330's, but likewise to Verdasco its static weight is past 12oz and more headlight...

Roger, swingweight is about ~350, not less.

Verdasco uses lead tape under the grommet, from 2 to 10.
Silicone in the handle, and a few lead tape, on the top of the grip.

350grams, ~33cm b.p., SW ~355, strung specs, this week!

star 5 15 · Sep 10, 2009

These specs are pretty similar to mine. If I can imagine these specs are UNSTRUNG like mine. the lead tape is there because pros racquets are made light so they can be open for customization. Fedace stop talking out your ass. My dog knows more about anything discussed on these boards. You ahve 0 credibility with your posts. I wish the mods would ban you and do everyone else a favor. You take serous threads and completely troll the hell out of them.

Fedace · Sep 10, 2009

Verdasco - 352grams, ~32,5cm bal.point, SW ~353

Here is the Proof that you need....

corners · Sep 11, 2009

ART ART said:
Roger, swingweight is about ~350, not less.

Verdasco uses lead tape under the grommet, from 2 to 10.
Silicone in the handle, and a few lead tape, on the top of the grip.

350grams, ~33cm b.p., SW ~355, strung specs, this week!

Thanks for this ART ART! Have you had a chance to check out Roger's setup for the Open?

RacquetCraft · Sep 11, 2009

ART ART said:
Roger, swingweight is about ~350, not less.

Verdasco uses lead tape under the grommet, from 2 to 10.
Silicone in the handle, and a few lead tape, on the top of the grip.

350grams, ~33cm b.p., SW ~355, strung specs, this week!

This is not correct! What's your motivation for posting non factual information? Is it to get Fedace's agreement and approval? I guess then that you have succeeded with your mission!

RacquetCraft

corners · Sep 11, 2009

RacquetCraft said:
This is not correct! What's your motivation for posting non factual information? Is it to get Fedace's agreement and approval? I guess then that you have succeeded with your mission!

RacquetCraft

So what is correct? And how do you know? And can you prove it? At this point it is ART ART's word against yours. I can't see that you have any more credibility on this point than he does. Especially since it's preposterous that a top 10 pro in the modern game uses a racquet with swingweight below 300.

BTW, there's no need to malign ART ART. He's been posting specs of player's racquets for some time on these boards. Who knows if they are all legit, but there's no reason to try and slam the guy, especially using Fedace as your weapon.

PED · Sep 12, 2009

corners said:
it's preposterous that a top 10 pro in the modern game uses a racquet with swingweight below 300.

You do realize the sub 300 SW is unstrung right

corners · Sep 12, 2009

PED said:
You do realize the sub 300 SW is unstrung right

Uh, no, missed that

But if Racquet Craft is right, and his unstrung SW is now less than 300, lets say 295, adding a full bed of Lux is +16 grams, adding 32 units, so 327. From the pics is looks like he uses at least one layer of ~6 inch long 1/2" lead tape, adding ~12 units, so now he's at 339. But it looks to me like more than that, so let's say 2 layers, bringing it to 351. Or ART ART is right and he puts lead under the bumper too. Either way it gets up to ~350.

Even if you assume instead that unstrung SW is 285, two layers at 3&9 and one under the bumper brings you to ~350. Or three layers at 3&9 - same thing.

PED · Sep 12, 2009

^^I think you're likely right, hard to believe Verdasco is producing that kind of ball with a sub 320 SW but that seems to be the consensus.

Having said that, the heaviest ball I ever face is from a 5.5 who plays with a bone stock Pure Storm Limited with a 311 SW-I guess it's all about racquet head speed. I know on my Pres Pro, I had to add some weight to the hoop to bring up the 319 SW and get more hurt on the ball.

star 5 15 · Sep 12, 2009

corners said:
Uh, no, missed that

But if Racquet Craft is right, and his unstrung SW is now less than 300, lets say 295, adding a full bed of Lux is +16 grams, adding 32 units, so 327. From the pics is looks like he uses at least one layer of ~6 inch long 1/2" lead tape, adding ~12 units, so now he's at 339. But it looks to me like more than that, so let's say 2 layers, bringing it to 351. Or ART ART is right and he puts lead under the bumper too. Either way it gets up to ~350.

Even if you assume instead that unstrung SW is 285, two layers at 3&9 and one under the bumper brings you to ~350. Or three layers at 3&9 - same thing.

Considering htey dont take specs and then add lead tape I'm pretty sure your wrong. What you have said is basically, hey im gonna customize my racquets. Maybe now that there done i'll add 5 or 10 grams more under the headguard. What the spec that racquet craft says is a finished product. And btw I popped one of my racquets that has a 280 untrsung sw and on the prince version of the rdc it had a SW of lux alu power 18x20 pattern. And it came to 309. and the 12 extra units you added for more lead is nonexistent.

corners · Sep 12, 2009

star 5 15 said:
Considering htey dont take specs and then add lead tape I'm pretty sure your wrong. What you have said is basically, hey im gonna customize my racquets. Maybe now that there done i'll add 5 or 10 grams more under the headguard. What the spec that racquet craft says is a finished product. And btw I popped one of my racquets that has a 280 untrsung sw and on the prince version of the rdc it had a SW of lux alu power 18x20 pattern. And it came to 309. and the 12 extra units you added for more lead is nonexistent.

So his swingweight is less than 300, with lead?

Or are you saying he doesn't use lead?

Nanshiki · Sep 12, 2009

FWIW, his racquet is 11 points head light... so it's possible for swingweight to be less than static weight.

star 5 15 · Sep 13, 2009

corners said:
So his swingweight is less than 300, with lead?

Or are you saying he doesn't use lead?

What I'm saying is he gets his customized specs by using lead. It's not like they take the specs then add some led. Those specs are the final product. My racquets SW is 280 and It is a low SW but it does not feel like a feather by any means. He probably just likes that and it works for him. I mean look at how fast he swings. The low SW has a little tiny bit to do with that.

Edit: BTW this weekend I put one of my racquets on an RDC strung with full Luxilon alu, tournagrip and dampner and the SW was 312 and the weight was 360g. All pros specs are unstrung with the replacement grip, no overgrip. Look at my sig. That is my setup unstrung. And look at what happened to the weight when I added those things.

beneszilo · Sep 17, 2009

star 5 15 said:
What I'm saying is he gets his customized specs by using lead. It's not like they take the specs then add some led. Those specs are the final product. My racquets SW is 280 and It is a low SW but it does not feel like a feather by any means. He probably just likes that and it works for him. I mean look at how fast he swings. The low SW has a little tiny bit to do with that.

Edit: BTW this weekend I put one of my racquets on an RDC strung with full Luxilon alu, tournagrip and dampner and the SW was 312 and the weight was 360g. All pros specs are unstrung with the replacement grip, no overgrip. Look at my sig. That is my setup unstrung. And look at what happened to the weight when I added those things.

wow your racquets must be nice

ac3111 · Sep 21, 2009

I am just wondering why tennis players and most of all top 10 atp players have to lead their racquets. Tecnifibre will build a customized racquet for Verdasco which will be custom made from the scratch.

star 5 15 · Sep 22, 2009

ac3111 said:
I am just wondering why tennis players and most of all top 10 atp players have to lead their racquets. Tecnifibre will build a customized racquet for Verdasco which will be custom made from the scratch.

It's not complicated. For example with Head. They build PT57, PT10, and TGKs and they leave them basically just build the frame weighing about 275 grams or so. They do this so that pros can add lead and silicon accordling to come to their prefered specs. Also another reason why the company doesn't just make them custom right off the line is because all racquet have a variance of weight, balance, and swing inertia. Pretty much all companys do the same. Head is just more well known.

And for anyone who hasn't figured this out yet. Lead is not a supplement to the frame like a dampener or a grip. Lead is part of the actual frame. Pros specs dont magicaly get where they are. Customizers like Racquet Craft build their racquets to there custom specs by injecting silicon and adding lead in certain places to come to the players spec. They specs of pros that you see are Unstrung with a replacement grip. For example the specs that you see in my signature are unstrung with my replacement grip:

ac3111 · Sep 22, 2009

332 grams to have 280 sw must be too headlight. 30cm must be 12 pts or more?

star 5 15 · Sep 22, 2009

ac3111 said:
332 grams to have 280 sw must be too headlight. 30cm must be 12 pts or more?

thats UNSTRUNG. Did you even read what I wrote?

star 5 15 · Sep 22, 2009

ac3111 said:
I am just wondering why tennis players and most of all top 10 atp players have to lead their racquets. Tecnifibre will build a customized racquet for Verdasco which will be custom made from the scratch.

And to make it more clear. The Exclusive production racquets for Fernando Verdasco are just a custom layup and mold, not weight, balance, SW, or length. The only specs that are determined by the factory are the RA flex, Beam width, shape of the racquet obviously, and string pattern.

ac3111 · Sep 22, 2009

star 5 15 said:
thats UNSTRUNG. Did you even read what I wrote?

You said unstrung, not without lead. I guess since the lead is part of the frame, the racquet you show with the specs in your signature is leaded, but without strings...
Adding strings does not affect the SW that much, right?

star 5 15 · Sep 22, 2009

ac3111 said:
You said unstrung, not without lead. I guess since the lead is part of the frame, the racquet you show with the specs in your signature is leaded, but without strings...
Adding strings does not affect the SW that much, right?

I put my racquet on an RDC with string, overgrip, and dampener. The Swingweight was 312. The weight was 360grams. I'm not sure what the balance was, It was in the stringing room of an ITF I played and didnt have time to check it. And BTW. The string was Luxilon Alu Power. The overgrip was tourna original. And the dampener was a little babolat "O".

And to answer your questions.

The spec in my sig is leaded without strings. You are correct. That is the way ALL pro specs are.

Strings usually add about 28-32 units of Swingweight to the racquet. The difference in the 5 units is the type of string, string gauge, string pattern(the amount of string in the racquet).

ac3111 · Sep 22, 2009

I know for example natural gut is heavier among string kinds but I did not expect the strings to add that much to the Swingweight figure...

ac3111 · Sep 22, 2009

So now comes the second question. Why don't racket companies have their own customization teams, departments?
That question should be better addressed to a racquet manufacturer though...

star 5 15 · Sep 22, 2009

ac3111 said:
I know for example natural gut is heavier among string kinds but I did not expect the strings to add that much to the Swingweight figure...

I don't think natural gut is any heavier unless the gauge is really thick or something. And pretty much with all string it is somwhere in the range of adding 28-32 units of SW. So even if it were heavier it would be a hair heavier. If it is heavier it is extremely minor.

AlpineCadet · Sep 22, 2009

star 5 15 said:
What I'm saying is he gets his customized specs by using lead. It's not like they take the specs then add some led. Those specs are the final product. My racquets SW is 280 and It is a low SW but it does not feel like a feather by any means. He probably just likes that and it works for him. I mean look at how fast he swings. The low SW has a little tiny bit to do with that.

Edit: BTW this weekend I put one of my racquets on an RDC strung with full Luxilon alu, tournagrip and dampner and the SW was 312 and the weight was 360g. All pros specs are unstrung with the replacement grip, no overgrip. Look at my sig. That is my setup unstrung. And look at what happened to the weight when I added those things.

Question: is most of the weight in the handle located inside the buttcap?

star 5 15 · Sep 22, 2009

AlpineCadet said:
Question: is most of the weight in the handle located inside the buttcap?

Yes there is a TON of silicon in the handle. Heres a pic of it.

AlpineCadet · Sep 22, 2009

That frame must feel very whippy with that setup, which explains the low swingweight/high static weight.

star 5 15 · Sep 23, 2009

AlpineCadet said:
That frame must feel very whippy with that setup, which explains the low swingweight/high static weight.

Yeah but its not as whippy as you would think with it being strung tight with alu power and with the dense string pattern.

PED · Sep 23, 2009

star 5 15 said:
Yeah but its not as whippy as you would think with it being strung tight with alu power and with the dense string pattern.

3 questions:

1 Does your modded PSL produce a heavy ball with that setup (I know technique plays a big role)

2 How does the PSL-GT compare with your older ones

3. Are you going to make any changes to your specs or are you happy with the setup

thx

star 5 15 · Sep 23, 2009

PED said:
3 questions:

1 Does your modded PSL produce a heavy ball with that setup (I know technique plays a big role)

2 How does the PSL-GT compare with your older ones

3. Are you going to make any changes to your specs or are you happy with the setup

thx

1-Actually with it being a really low SW it doesn't provide much power, but thats what I was going for. I do feel like I can hit pretty heavy with it but its more of me than the racquet. I've been able to hit the heaviest ball with a fxp prestige 98 strung with ful VS 16g at like 32kg. I used that a couple years ago. The string pattern was just less dense.

2. I think the layup on the newer ones is definately different. They play differently but I think I like them the same if not the older one a little bit better. But I'm not really even sure.

3. So far I really love my setup. I might add about 1 or 2 grams at noon just to add a little more SW and plow through. I might not though so I'll just have to see.

PED · Sep 23, 2009

Thanks for the response. I hit with the PSL a few times this spring and have been itching to try out the new GT version. I usually prefer an open pattern but I liked the overall feel of the PSL and the nice platform for modding it up.

I think for my game, I'd go with some lead at 3 and 9 to give me a bit more plow.

star 5 15 · Sep 23, 2009

PED said:
Thanks for the response. I hit with the PSL a few times this spring and have been itching to try out the new GT version. I usually prefer an open pattern but I liked the overall feel of the PSL and the nice platform for modding it up.

I think for my game, I'd go with some lead at 3 and 9 to give me a bit more plow.

Yeah that's probably a good idea. All of my racquet have at least 2-8 grams of lead that was put on by P1 all of that being at 3 and 9. There's a pretty big variance in weight though from the factory from racquet to racquet. The racquet I actually sent them to take specs from had 2 grams balled up exra in the buttcap and I put 6 grams at 3 and 9

AlpineCadet · Sep 23, 2009

If I had the choice of using the frame, and needed to add weight, I would polarize the weight at opposite ends so I could get the highest SW with the lowest static weight. Using a heavy stick (+350 grams) with a low SW just doesn't seem logical/efficient.

star 5 15 · Sep 23, 2009

AlpineCadet said:
If I had the choice of using the frame, and needed to add weight, I would polarize the weight at opposite ends so I could get the highest SW with the lowest static weight. Using a heavy stick (+350 grams) with a low SW just doesn't seem logical/efficient.

I didn't do it because of what I thought was logical. I did what I did on purpose. When add weight at noon versus 3 and 9 it doesn't have a different effect on SW. I told Ron Yu what I wanted and he told me what to do and then he fixed them up. I asked him face to face. I said," I used to put the lead at noon under the bumper. Could we put it their? I think it makes the SW feel higher." he said, "If in your head you feel like it does. Then we can do that, but in reality it has no effect whether or not it is at 3 and 9 or noon."

AlpineCadet · Sep 23, 2009

star 5 15 said:
I didn't do it because of what I thought was logical. I did what I did on purpose. When add weight at noon versus 3 and 9 it doesn't have a different effect on SW. I told Ron Yu what I wanted and he told me what to do and then he fixed them up.

Weight at 12 vs 3/9 makes a huge difference in SW IMO. Let me know how it feels once you add the weight.

If your quote is of what Ron Yu actually said, then that's pretty intriguing because everyone knows that adding weight at 12 vs 3/9 makes a noticeable difference in SW. BTW, great memory!

star 5 15 · Sep 23, 2009

AlpineCadet said:
Weight at 12 vs 3/9 makes a huge difference in SW IMO. Let me know how it feels once you add the weight.

You can believe what you want but What I wrote was a quote straight from Ron Yu's mouth. He's a somewhat expierenced racquet tech. I'm not adding the weight. I had my racquets customized already. There's pictures of them a lot of places on the board. He customized them. Most pros that put lead under the bumper is because their contracts requires it and they cannot have lead showing on their racquets.
Heres one of them:

Power Player · Sep 24, 2009

I think star is right. My babolat apdc was done by a pro stringer last night and he did the lead in the exact same position. I mean, it looks exactly the same. I also have the leather grip, so no weight in the handle was needed.

My swingweight is a lot higher at 345. But I still have a static weight of 12.1, which is really not that heavy at all. It has turned the APDC into a much more powerful, comfortable and controllable racquet also.

star 5 15 · Sep 24, 2009

Power Player said:
I think star is right. My babolat apdc was done by a pro stringer last night and he did the lead in the exact same position. I mean, it looks exactly the same. I also have the leather grip, so no weight in the handle was needed.

My swingweight is a lot higher at 345. But I still have a static weight of 12.1, which is really not that heavy at all. It has turned the APDC into a much more powerful, comfortable and controllable racquet also.

I'm happy someone sees eye to eye with me now. Ron Yu is probably the most knowledgable person about customizing and stringing with the exception of nate ferguson, his partner or roman prokes whom owns ****.

PED · Sep 24, 2009

star 5 15 said:
I didn't do it because of what I thought was logical. I did what I did on purpose. When add weight at noon versus 3 and 9 it doesn't have a different effect on SW. I told Ron Yu what I wanted and he told me what to do and then he fixed them up. I asked him face to face. I said," I used to put the lead at noon under the bumper. Could we put it their? I think it makes the SW feel higher." he said, "If in your head you feel like it does. Then we can do that, but in reality it has no effect whether or not it is at 3 and 9 or noon."

From the numbers I've seen on the RDC, adding weight at 12 has more effect on SW than adding it at 3 and 9.

Maybe Ron was saying that it's personal preference as to what you like: for instance I like the effect better at 3 and 9 versus at the top of the hoop.

The rule of thumb I use is roughly 1g of lead adds 3.4g of SW when used at the top of the hoop.

Lead at three and nine tends to add 1.42g of SW per 1g of lead.

I'll def defer to Ron's knowledge over mine but my stick swings differently and hits differently and also puts up different SW numbers depending on where the lead is.

star 5 15 · Sep 25, 2009

PED said:
From the numbers I've seen on the RDC, adding weight at 12 has more effect on SW than adding it at 3 and 9.

Maybe Ron was saying that it's personal preference as to what you like: for instance I like the effect better at 3 and 9 versus at the top of the hoop.

The rule of thumb I use is roughly 1g of lead adds 3g of SW when used at the top of the hoop.

Lead at three and nine tends to add 2.5g of SW per 1g of lead.

I'll def defer to Ron's knowledge over mine but my stick swings differently and hits differently and also puts up different SW numbers depending on where the lead is.

Hmm. This si the conclusion I'm starting to come too based on trends. If you want a low static weight with high SW you put the lead at noon. If you want a higher static weight with lower or normal SW you put the lead at 3 and 9. Always putting lead or injecting silicon in the butt as normal.

PED · Sep 25, 2009

^^^I think that sums it up nicely.

As an aside, i hit today with a Prince Exo Rebel. Nice stick and nice specs-354g static weight strung with OG and a 337SW. Easy to swing and it hit a nice heavy ball with little or no effort. The only thing I didn't like was that it pocketed the ball a bit too much. The seemed to come off the stringbed of my Prestiges much quicker. I went to demo a PSL but it was already checked out....

AlpineCadet · Sep 26, 2009

Silicon in the handle numbs the frame a bit.

Ross K · Sep 26, 2009

PED said:
As an aside, i hit today with a Prince Exo Rebel. Nice stick and nice specs-354g static weight strung with OG and a 337SW. Easy to swing and it hit a nice heavy ball with little or no effort...

This is exactly what I keep telling people!

R.

PED · Sep 26, 2009

Ross K said:
This is exactly what I keep telling people!

R.

I know--I've been reading your X men posts and that's one reason I tried it out.

I pick one up if I can find a cheap one in the used section-the only issue is that I use a 1/4 grip. Ross, did you try Rebel with full poly? That's my usual setup and I'd love to see how that works in there.

star 5 15 · Sep 26, 2009

I hit with the Rebel and I thought it made a strange noise when wou swung because of the grommets or something. Didn't sound solid and I felt like it was too stiff. Just IMO though.

PED · Sep 26, 2009

I played with the 03 tour for a year so the sound was familiar to me but I know what you mean. The sound gets a bit old after awhile.

Sound is a major part of the feedback loop in tennis. I don't play with a dampener and when I recently hit with a stick with one installed, I felt like I was "missing" something because of the lack of noise off the stringbed.
The Rebel felt quite soft to me though-much softer than my Prestige but the RA is only 60. By comparison, your PSL's do play even softer I think.

star 5 15 · Sep 26, 2009

PED said:
I played with the 03 tour for a year so the sound was familiar to me but I know what you mean. The sound gets a bit old after awhile.

Sound is a major part of the feedback loop in tennis. I don't play with a dampener and when I recently hit with a stick with one installed, I felt like I was "missing" something because of the lack of noise off the stringbed.
The Rebel felt quite soft to me though-much softer than my Prestige but the RA is only 60. By comparison, your PSL's do play even softer I think.

I'm just a lot more used to a really flexy soft racquet. The layup is a lot different of the rebel then mine. Most of my flex is a result of a thin beam and the flex of the rebel is mainly in the hoop. It's stiff through the throat which is what I didn't like about it.

PED · Sep 26, 2009

Does your PSL flex mainly in the throat? I like a stiff throat-that's why I ended up sticking with the Prestige Pro over the mP, the MP was a noodle in the throat.

star 5 15 · Sep 26, 2009

PED said:
Does your PSL flex mainly in the throat? I like a stiff throat-that's why I ended up sticking with the Prestige Pro over the mP, the MP was a noodle in the throat.

It's not that it mainly flexs in the throat. Its pretty evenly distrubuted. I just like the shape of the throat the way it's curved inward like a prestige but no quiet as much. One of my other favorite racquets to give you an idea is like a lm prestige mid. That racquet is flexy and you feel it in the throat alot because the shape which is similar to my racquet.

Is the swingweight of Verdasco's racquet really 280???

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