Reliable & Relatively Easy-to-use Video Camera?

Kaptain Karl

Kaptain Karl

Hall Of Fame
Coaches and Teaching Pros, I'd like your recommendations for good, solid, simple video cameras to use, please. I'd like to be able to do swing and competitive analysis, reviewing the clips on my MacBook (10.4).

A friend who uses the Windows platform raves about the Canon FS11, but I cannot find anything addressing its Mac compatibility. Thanks.

- KK
 
GetBetterer

GetBetterer

Hall of Fame
http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/.../XAA/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&returnurl=

Finally found it. That's the one I use. It's really easy, the buttons are there, and it's cheap (for a video camera). It does have a newer version titled the C-14. However, it is a tad bit more expensive, and I didn't buy it because, when I read "X is better because of Y, Z, and A" I tend to waste my money on it, and so from past experiences I chose not to buy the C-14. But, who I'll never know now. The C-10 is still good. The manual is also small, so if there's anything that's "complicated," it's an easy find.
 
P

papa

Hall of Fame
Kaptain Karl said:
Coaches and Teaching Pros, I'd like your recommendations for good, solid, simple video cameras to use, please. I'd like to be able to do swing and competitive analysis, reviewing the clips on my MacBook (10.4).

A friend who uses the Windows platform raves about the Canon FS11, but I cannot find anything addressing its Mac compatibility. Thanks.

- KK
Click to expand...

I'd like to know this information also - some of the systems are rather complicated to use and take too long to set up. I guess I need something rather simple.
 
BullDogTennis

BullDogTennis

Hall of Fame
ever looked into just a simple digital camera? most of the new ones now film in high def, there very portable. and pretty cheap too
 
Kaptain Karl

Kaptain Karl

Hall Of Fame
GetBetterer said:
http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/.../XAA/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&returnurl=

Finally found it. That's the one I use. It's really easy, the buttons are there, and it's cheap (for a video camera).
Click to expand...
This was pretty helpful. Although the reviews right on that sight mention how it gobbles batteries if zooming. I'm pretty sure I'll be zooming a lot.


HunterST said:
what about an HD flip cam?
Click to expand...
Not enough zoom.


BullDogTennis said:
ever looked into just a simple digital camera? most of the new ones now film in high def, there very portable. and pretty cheap too
Click to expand...
Not enough zoom.

Regarding zoom: I plan to have my Managers film whole games-at-a-time of my High School players. (Our facility is laid out superbly for filming, but from a distance.)

For teaching 2X and 4X is fine, but for filming match play I want more zoom than that.

Thanks for your replies.

- KK
 
T

TennisandMusic

Guest
How much are you wanting to spend? Obviously as little as possible, but are you looking for something with slo-mo capabilities? Do you want HD? You can pretty much make anything mac compatible with some of the software out there, and there aren't that many codec formats in reality. I can give you some more info if you can tell me price range and whether or not you want HD.
 
JoelDali

JoelDali

Talk Tennis Guru
Kaptain Karl said:
Coaches and Teaching Pros, I'd like your recommendations for good, solid, simple video cameras to use, please. I'd like to be able to do swing and competitive analysis, reviewing the clips on my MacBook (10.4).

A friend who uses the Windows platform raves about the Canon FS11, but I cannot find anything addressing its Mac compatibility. Thanks.

- KK
Click to expand...

MAC compatibility isn't an issue.

All the media captured on the FS11 is in a format that any MAC can render, import, and edit.

This is a fantastic camera.

Go to Amazon and spend time reading reviews.
 
WildVolley

WildVolley

Legend
I'm a big fan of my Casio Exilim-FH20, that is if you want to shoot slow-motion. In bright sunlight, it takes video at up to a thousand frames a second (low quality). It isn't ideal for shooting hours of just regular play for review, but for stroke analysis it is great.
 
Kaptain Karl

Kaptain Karl

Hall Of Fame
JoelDali said:
MAC compatibility isn't an issue.

All the media captured on the FS11 is in a format that any MAC can render, import, and edit.

This is a fantastic camera.

Go to Amazon and spend time reading reviews.
Click to expand...
Thanks. This is helpful. I don't usually read Amazon reviews. Too many seem as if marketing people from the manufacturer wrote them. In the case of the FS 11, my biased remark certainly does not hold. Thanks!



Ripper014 said:
I have an Everio that works well and is very inexpensive for what you get.
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And it talks to your Mac without having to buy a bunch of 3rd Party SW?



TennisandMusic said:
How much are you wanting to spend? Obviously as little as possible, but are you looking for something with slo-mo capabilities? Do you want HD? You can pretty much make anything mac compatible with some of the software out there, and there aren't that many codec formats in reality. I can give you some more info if you can tell me price range and whether or not you want HD.
Click to expand...
Good questions. Slo-mo isn't that important to me. (Once I get the vid on my Mac I can slo-mo to my heart's content ... if needed.)

I cannot think of why HD would be important. (But this is my problem. I have an aversion to geeky and techy stuff. I was one of the last people in my business to get a mobile phone (which I now cannot live without). I saw no reason to own a laptop (and now don't own a desktop computer). I seem to be "dragged" into each technological advancement....

Price: From the basic research I've done I see camcorders with 40+ zoom under $300. I'd love to find that kind of thing which suits my limited technological capability. I certainly don't want to spend more than $500. (I'm a HS Coach in a budget-crunched District. I'm going to have to raise money from my parents to cover this expense ... and a few other even Bigger Ticket items....)



WildVolley said:
I'm a big fan of my Casio Exilim-FH20, that is if you want to shoot slow-motion. In bright sunlight, it takes video at up to a thousand frames a second (low quality). It isn't ideal for shooting hours of just regular play for review, but for stroke analysis it is great.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I think I'll avoid that one. I *do* want to film whole games of many of the players personal matches each time we have a match.



You folks are helping. I didn't even know what questions to ask....

- KK
 
onehandbh

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
KK,

Doing the slo-mo in software is very different than shooting
in slow mo. if you shoot at 30 frames per sec vs. something
like 60 or 240, the 240 is true slo motion and reveals a lot
more than 30fps shot slowed down in post. There just isn't
enough information in the video file of the 30fps to make good
slow motion. Oranges and Apples.
It's like buying a honda civic 4 door sedan and sawing off the
trunk and roof to convert it into a pickup truck to haul
stuff verses just buying a pickup truck.
 
T

TennisandMusic

Guest
If you want standard def video there will be a plethora of good options under 500 dollars these days. Heck I don't even know where to start. Safe brands would be Canon, Sony and Panasonic. You shouldn't have to worry about OSX compatibility, everything should work pretty much.
 
Kaptain Karl

Kaptain Karl

Hall Of Fame
onehandbh said:
Doing the slo-mo in software is very different than shooting in slow mo. if you shoot at 30 frames per sec vs. something
like 60 or 240, the 240 is true slo motion and reveals a lot more than 30fps shot slowed down in post. There just isn't enough information in the video file of the 30fps to make good slow motion. Oranges and Apples. It's like buying a honda civic 4 door sedan and sawing off the trunk and roof to convert it into a pickup truck to haul stuff verses just buying a pickup truck.
Click to expand...
I don't understand your word pictures.

First, maybe you should tell me why you think slo-mo is so important. (I've visited two universities which host huge tennis camps. They both used Flips for their "video analysis.") I don't do the kind of video analysis FYB and TennisPlayer do, so I don't know why slo-mo is so important. (But the last time I was doing video analysis, the camera was attached to a power pack by a 6ft umbilical and the camera weighed about 20 pounds! Those beasts could do slo-mo....)

I could be convinced, but you gotta at least try.

And your Honda / Pickup truck bit.... "Huh?"



TennisandMusic said:
If you want standard def video there will be a plethora of good options under 500 dollars these days. Heck I don't even know where to start. Safe brands would be Canon, Sony and Panasonic. You shouldn't have to worry about OSX compatibility, everything should work pretty much.
Click to expand...
Okay. Good.

Do you think any one brand requires more purchasing of 3rd Party S/W or Drivers? Thanks.

- KK
 
Lsmkenpo

Lsmkenpo

Hall of Fame
If you are using it for swing analysis, high speed video capability is a near must have, 30 fps just does not show enough detail no matter how much you slow it down in my experience.

The Casio mentioned above is fantastic for the price.
 
Kaptain Karl

Kaptain Karl

Hall Of Fame
Lsmkenpo said:
If you are using it for swing analysis, high speed video capability is a near must have, 30 fps just does not show enough detail no matter how much you slow it down in my experience.
Click to expand...
Hmm. We'll see. I just ordered the Canon FS 200 ... and a tripod (Will).

I truly HOPE 30fps becomes inadequate ... someday. My HS players are not like I was (back in the Stone Age). We played tennis, took lessons all summer and traveled to ten tournaments (minimum) each summer. My players are so over-scheduled with Soccer, Violin, Calculus, French, Band, Physics and Chinese Camps it's amazing. (Really! I'd never heard of "Calculus Camp" before 2005. Sheesh!!!)

Thanks for all your help, everyone.

- KK
 
P

papa

Hall of Fame
Kaptain Karl said:
Hmm. We'll see. I just ordered the Canon FS 200 ... and a tripod (Will).

I truly HOPE 30fps becomes inadequate ... someday. My HS players are not like I was (back in the Stone Age). We played tennis, took lessons all summer and traveled to ten tournaments (minimum) each summer. My players are so over-scheduled with Soccer, Violin, Calculus, French, Band, Physics and Chinese Camps it's amazing. (Really! I'd never heard of "Calculus Camp" before 2005. Sheesh!!!)

Thanks for all your help, everyone.

- KK
Click to expand...

Just curious Karl ... I would assume Colorado has some sort of High School Athletic Association like most/if not all States. Does Colorado restrict the "season" and mandate the times during the year you have contact with your players? Some States have become very involved with this (limiting the season and any other on-court involvement with players outside the established season).
 
K

Kick_It

Semi-Pro
I use a Canon HV20 that we already had.

It is decent for tennis though doesn't have the slow-motion I lust after. It works great with iMovie on a Mac also.

I'm tempted to get one of the Casio point & shooters that does high speed - to replace a broken Canon point & shoot.

K_I
 
G

gould2000

New User
I got the zi8 with gorilla mount and xtra battery and 16gb card. works great and easy to use. has remote also for 10 bucks
 
Power Player

Power Player

Bionic Poster
The Zi8 has a remote? Oh man, thats awesome. I have the xact same setup as you and I love it, but don't have a remote yet.
 
Kaptain Karl

Kaptain Karl

Hall Of Fame
papa said:
Just curious Karl ... I would assume Colorado has some sort of High School Athletic Association like most/if not all States. Does Colorado restrict the "season" and mandate the times during the year you have contact with your players? Some States have become very involved with this (limiting the season and any other on-court involvement with players outside the established season).
Click to expand...
CHSAA (Colorado High School Athletics Association) does have rules. The biggest is "No coaching contact on Sundays." That one is strictly adhered to.

The differences between the "letter" and "spirit" of the regulations makes the season limitations almost laughable. Each sport is limited in the number of sport-specific "Camps" they are allowed to have during the off-season (but there are no Coach/Player "contact" restrictions, except for the sacrosanct Sunday Rule). So ... "XXHS" will have "Football Camps" to that limit ... then they'll have "Speed Camp" ... "Conditioning Camp" ... "Footwork Camp" ... "Strength Camp" ... "Technique Camp" ... ad nauseum....

The "unspoken message" for schools which have dominating teams in "X" sport is "If you want to stay competitive and have a chance at starting, the Camps will help you keep ahead of the curve."

Golf and Tennis are viewed as "oddball" sports by the "Revenue Generating Programs" (Football, Basketball and Baseball). They know each Golfer and Tennis player may have their own Instructor ... who can also be their team Coach in some circumstances.

What are the regulations where you are, papa? And does everybody follow them all the time?

- KK
 
aphex

aphex

Banned
wihamilton said:
Casio EX-FH20 is a good one. Regular-speed HD, 210 fps, picture bursts (approx. 9 megapixel). We used it at Indian Wells in 2009 w/great effect. You can check out all the specs here --

http://www.casio.com/products/Cameras/EXILIM_High-Speed/EX-FH20/

Also, make sure you get a tripod. Let me repeat that! Get a tripod. Framing the shot properly and avoiding camera shake is just as important as the quality of your camera.
Click to expand...

will, was this video shot with the camera you mention?

also, how much disk space does it eat up? say 10 minutes at 210fps?
 
wihamilton

wihamilton

Hall of Fame
aphex said:
will, was this video shot with the camera you mention?

also, how much disk space does it eat up? say 10 minutes at 210fps?
Click to expand...

No that was a movie camera we rented for this year's Indian Wells -- it's called a Red One.

I can't remember off the top of my head how big the files were w/the Casio -- several hundred megs for a clip that's a few minutes long (at 210 fps that translates to 20 - 30 seconds of "real time" action). You can buy 8 gig cards for the Casio and just replace them if you run out of memory.
 
cg.tennis

cg.tennis

Rookie
Casio Exilim's movie file size is TOO big. That's the most drawback with Casio. I bought an EX-FH100 and had to return it. I'm keeping my Creative Vado 1st Gen (which only cost me $70). Here are some comparison.

Creative Vado HD, I can record 4 hours HD for 8 GB memory. (2 hours for HD+, but I don't think HD+ is necessary). So, basically for 1GB, I can record 30 minutes.

Casio EX-FH100, I can only record 10 minutes of HD per 1 GB size, which means it requires 4 times disk spaces.
 
8

86golf

Semi-Pro
cxw0106 said:
Casio Exilim's movie file size is TOO big. That's the most drawback with Casio. I bought an EX-FH100 and had to return it. I'm keeping my Creative Vado 1st Gen (which only cost me $70). Here are some comparison.

Creative Vado HD, I can record 4 hours HD for 8 GB memory. (2 hours for HD+, but I don't think HD+ is necessary). So, basically for 1GB, I can record 30 minutes.

Casio EX-FH100, I can only record 10 minutes of HD per 1 GB size, which means it requires 4 times disk spaces.
Click to expand...

I just bought a Vado 1st gen. Do you have any footage up on youtube ? Curious if you can get the whole court in from the back fence.
 
S

sn1974

Rookie
would be really cool if people would note the camera they're using whenever they post videos so people looking for videos can see what they deliver.
 
8

86golf

Semi-Pro
sn1974 said:
would be really cool if people would note the camera they're using whenever they post videos so people looking for videos can see what they deliver.
Click to expand...

I try to put in a "tag" the with video camera I use. Also good to put in a tag with the lens and settings and if std def or HD.
 
aphex

aphex

Banned
cxw0106 said:
Casio Exilim's movie file size is TOO big. That's the most drawback with Casio. I bought an EX-FH100 and had to return it. I'm keeping my Creative Vado 1st Gen (which only cost me $70). Here are some comparison.

Creative Vado HD, I can record 4 hours HD for 8 GB memory. (2 hours for HD+, but I don't think HD+ is necessary). So, basically for 1GB, I can record 30 minutes.

Casio EX-FH100, I can only record 10 minutes of HD per 1 GB size, which means it requires 4 times disk spaces.
Click to expand...

yeah, but does the creative have high-speed?

also, what's the video quality at 210 fps on the fh100?
 
Lsmkenpo

Lsmkenpo

Hall of Fame
cxw0106 said:
Casio Exilim's movie file size is TOO big. That's the most drawback with Casio. I bought an EX-FH100 and had to return it. I'm keeping my Creative Vado 1st Gen (which only cost me $70). Here are some comparison.

Creative Vado HD, I can record 4 hours HD for 8 GB memory. (2 hours for HD+, but I don't think HD+ is necessary). So, basically for 1GB, I can record 30 minutes.

Casio EX-FH100, I can only record 10 minutes of HD per 1 GB size, which means it requires 4 times disk spaces.
Click to expand...

The Casio records high speed at 120fps and up and your Vado only records 30fps,there in lies the difference, if the video is being used for stroke analysis the high speed ability is much more important than recording size and number of pixels(HD)

Your recording less frames and thus less detail that is why you are getting more recording time with the Creative.
 
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Kaptain Karl

Kaptain Karl

Hall Of Fame
Kaptain Karl said:
Hmm. We'll see. I just ordered the Canon FS 200 ... and a tripod (Will).
Click to expand...
I've had the camcorder for two weeks. I can't figure out how to make it work. (I hate techie stuff.)

The manual is written to put you to sleep. The "DVD" is just a PDF of the manual.

I'll go across town and ask my buddy who uses the same thing for his HS team....

- KK
 
Kaptain Karl

Kaptain Karl

Hall Of Fame
Update: I finally just fooled with the FS 200 enough to learn how to use it pretty well. (Thanks to all the folks who insisted I get the tripod, too. That makes a BIG difference.)

As my first foray into using vids for coaching this has been a VERY good experience. (No. I cannot do super slo-mo analysis of technique, but the truth is ... my students and players are not "there" yet anyway. We're still at the footwork / timing of take backs / height of ball toss stage with these younger HS players.)

I pray these kids get to the point where I'll be saying, "I should have purchased a camera with better capabilities." But for now, I'm very pleased....

- KK
 
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