My groundstrokes and my game

A

Andre D

Rookie
Im quite lazy in these videos, that is probably due to amount of practice i am taking, my coach says it will be like this for one or two weeks until i get adjusted to practicing 5 times a week+ tournaments(Im not usually that lazy)
Now I d like some advice about my game and some help with my groundstrokes level, as well as my serve(I cant control depth and I dont know why..I can hit it where I want, but the depth always gets in the way...either goes too long or it stays on the net).

my groundstrokes(the partner wasnt any good either so i wasnt really motivated, but you might see something i did not

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzi3PXlbqNo

me playing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djW0Jqwi4iQ


PS: i know my right arm is holding me back but i cant seem to find a way to use him more, i always forget and i am not able to move it properly, dont really know why.
 
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MarinaHighTennis

MarinaHighTennis

Hall of Fame
Your form is opposite from mine. You like to catch the away from you while I catch it close to me. But sometimes it looks as if you catch the ball too far. I need to see the result of your shot though otherwise what I say may not be valid BC you could be hitting a great shot.
 
Up&comer

Up&comer

Hall of Fame
What dozu means is to involve your body more. You just swing all arm.

Another thing is to accelerate your racket through the contact zone. You tend to slow up through the contact.

Other than that, you need to make sure you catch to ball in the same place every time. You jump up and down in between shots, but you don't move quickly to the ball, so you tend to catch it lower or higher than what would be ideal.

Everything else seems ok though.
 
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Up&comer

Up&comer

Hall of Fame
Andre D said:
i dont use my body? i thought i just didnt used much my right arm, not the whole body
Click to expand...

You don't use your body as much as you should. You do a little, but most of your shots are arm swings.

The best was I can describe your problem is that you're lazy. You don't move your feet to a good set position, you don't accelerate your racket, and your arms are so loose through the whole stroke.
 
A

Andre D

Rookie
I do not accelerate because i am scared that it goes out.. or it nets.
People told be that my strokes used to be too stiff so they told me to loosen up and i did..
 
MarinaHighTennis

MarinaHighTennis

Hall of Fame
Andre D said:
I do not accelerate because i am scared that it goes out.. or it nets.
People told be that my strokes used to be too stiff so they told me to loosen up and i did..
Click to expand...

That reasoning is what my brother uses but try to accelerate up the back of the ball. Lift the ball over the net.
According to bernoullis principle, acceleration up the back of the ball will cause spin and this spin will drive the ball downwards into the court. You can be very solid by imparting topspin.

Edit: I saw your second video but you are not taking it seriously as your movement is slow and one can see lack of motivation. So I can't really help BC this is not your full potential.
 
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A

Andre D

Rookie
MarinaHighTennis said:
That reasoning is what my brother uses but try to accelerate up the back of the ball. Lift the ball over the net.
According to bernoullis principle, acceleration up the back of the ball will cause spin and this spin will drive the ball downwards into the court. You can be very solid by imparting topspin.

Edit: I saw your second video but you are not taking it seriously as your movement is slow and one can see lack of motivation. So I can't really help BC this is not your full potential.
Click to expand...

Ill see if i can post another one when i get the chance to play a match
 
R

rkelley

Hall of Fame
Well, on the forehand other than the right arm not helping as much as it could (which was noted), it seems like a decent enough stroke to me. I don't see the "arm city" that's been mentioned.

If you have coach then listen to him, not us. One thought: Possibly try practicing the perfect stroke without a ball. Watch yourself in the mirror at home if you can. Also maybe you can go out and hit with some of those large foam balls and just practice that perfect form, using the right arm correctly, with everything moving more slowly.

But other than the right arm the forehand looks pretty good to me.
 
L

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
Andre D said:
Im quite lazy in these videos, that is probably due to amount of practice i am taking, my coach says it will be like this for one or two weeks until i get adjusted to practicing 5 times a week+ tournaments(Im not usually that lazy)
Now I d like some advice about my game and some help with my groundstrokes level, as well as my serve(I cant control depth and I dont know why..I can hit it where I want, but the depth always gets in the way...either goes too long or it stays on the net).

my groundstrokes(the partner wasnt any good either so i wasnt really motivated, but you might see something i did not

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzi3PXlbqNo

me playing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djW0Jqwi4iQ


PS: i know my right arm is holding me back but i cant seem to find a way to use him more, i always forget and i am not able to move it properly, dont really know why.
Click to expand...

I think your groundstrokes and serve look very good.

You could use a bit more upper body rotation (back and forth), and a little less arm, on your groundstrokes. On forehand, extend your right arm parallel to the baseline as a reference for a complete upper body turn.

On serve, hit up on the ball so that the path of the ball has a higher arch clearing the net by at least 3-4 feet. This will take the net out of play, and will be more likely to go in because of the more downward trajectory, which will also create a bigger kick when it bounces up.
 
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A

Andre D

Rookie
rkelley said:
Well, on the forehand other than the right arm not helping as much as it could (which was noted), it seems like a decent enough stroke to me. I don't see the "arm city" that's been mentioned.

If you have coach then listen to him, not us. One thought: Possibly try practicing the perfect stroke without a ball. Watch yourself in the mirror at home if you can. Also maybe you can go out and hit with some of those large foam balls and just practice that perfect form, using the right arm correctly, with everything moving more slowly.

But other than the right arm the forehand looks pretty good to me.
Click to expand...

The thing is when i shadow practice it looks perfect... but in the game is different

Limpinhitter said:
I think your groundstrokes and serve look very good.

You could use a bit more upper body rotation (back and forth), and a little less arm, on your groundstrokes. On forehand, extend your right arm parallel to the baseline as a reference for a complete upper body turn.

On serve, up on the ball so that the path of the ball has a higher arch clearing the net by at least 3-4 feet. This will take the net out of play, and will be more likely to go in because of the more downward trajectory, which will also create a bigger kick when it bounces up.
Click to expand...

Thanks
 
dozu

dozu

Banned
go to L&R's home page and watch his video of arms passively swing when the body rotates.... that will give you the sensation of what a FH should feel like.
 
R

rufusbgood

Semi-Pro
I started to watch your videos but frankly you are such a petulant little brat I turned them off. What needs work is your attitude.
 
R

rkelley

Hall of Fame
Andre D said:
The thing is when i shadow practice it looks perfect... but in the game is different

Thanks
Click to expand...

If you can do it in shadow practice then that's an excellent first step, but sometimes you need to work your way up to making it work in actual rallies with other players. The next thing to do would be to get on a ball machine (I use a wall for this) and work on that specific aspect of your stroke. Let the machine feed you a nice, consistent ball. Practice hitting it with that perfect form, especially with respect to your right arm. It doesn't matter whether the ball goes in or out, just focus on using that perfect form and get that grooved. Eventually the balls will start going in. If you have a coach that can watch your stroke and help you maintain your form that's even better.

Once you can do it with a machine (or against a wall), then start hitting with a buddy and just work on maintaining that perfect form. It will be harder than with the machine because there will be a lot more variety in the balls that you're going to get. Think of this as something you'll have to work on for several weeks to really get it, going back to the machine/wall to groove the form, and then using it against a live player.

Using it in a match is the last step. I'd personally try to avoid playing sets/matches for a few weeks while you work on this. In a match situation you will tend to revert back to what's comfortable for you, and that will tend to undo all of the work that you've done up to that point.
 
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R

rkelley

Hall of Fame
dozu said:
go to L&R's home page and watch his video of arms passively swing when the body rotates.... that will give you the sensation of what a FH should feel like.
Click to expand...

I agree that Lockinroll's video of the passive arms is good. Definitely check it out. But from what I see the OP is basically doing that.
 
A

Andre D

Rookie
rkelley said:
I agree that Lockinroll's video of the passive arms is good. Definitely check it out. But from what I see the OP is basically doing that.
Click to expand...

Ive checked the website and then i saw some top pros forehand and i didnt see that rotate the trunk and then the arms..they do it at the same time.
 
P

papa

Hall of Fame
Well, I'd agree with dozu - too much arm. I also see what we encounter a lot with middle & high school kids - not enough motion into the ball.

I'd like to see you address several issues that probably would improve your game because you have all the basics.

Footwork is ok but not good enough by a long shot - too much reaching and being out of position. You've got the legs, use them.

Although I like some clearance over the net, IMO, your using too much with your strokes/style.

Racquet speed is way too slow which is why so many of your balls are sailing and you also have to finish all shots to be able to control the ball.

Get into position, watch the ball into the racquet and finish the shot. Assuming the perceived attitude can be attributed to the use of the camera, you probably have what it takes to be pretty good in this sport. Forget the camera and the abilities of your opponent(s) & work on your own game. I think you have the pieces, so use them and you'll improve quickly.
 
A

Andre D

Rookie
papa said:
Well, I'd agree with dozu - too much arm. I also see what we encounter a lot with middle & high school kids - not enough motion into the ball.

I'd like to see you address several issues that probably would improve your game because you have all the basics.

Footwork is ok but not good enough by a long shot - too much reaching and being out of position. You've got the legs, use them.

Although I like some clearance over the net, IMO, your using too much with your strokes/style.

Racquet speed is way too slow which is why so many of your balls are sailing and you also have to finish all shots to be able to control the ball.

Get into position, watch the ball into the racquet and finish the shot. Assuming the perceived attitude can be attributed to the use of the camera, you probably have what it takes to be pretty good in this sport. Forget the camera and the abilities of your opponent(s) & work on your own game. I think you have the pieces, so use them and you'll improve quickly.
Click to expand...

Thanks will do
 
BaboFan

BaboFan

Rookie
Andre D said:
Ive checked the website and then i saw some top pros forehand and i didnt see that rotate the trunk and then the arms..they do it at the same time.
Click to expand...

Were you watching them practice? But think of your body as a spring. You need good footwork to get your body so it can coil then explode into the shot.
 
dozu

dozu

Banned
Andre D said:
Ive checked the website and then i saw some top pros forehand and i didnt see that rotate the trunk and then the arms..they do it at the same time.
Click to expand...

there is this subtle difference between the so called 'pull' and the so called 'push' FHs where the amount of the arm lagging behind the core being slightly different.

I believe 'learning by feel'.... L&R's video should give the sensation, without you having to worry much about how much separation there should be between the core and the arm.
 
P

pvaudio

Legend
Didn't listen with sound, so I am just going by what I see which in this case is more important. While everyone else can cover all of the other strokes, let me give you a huge tip: at your level, a slice backhand is a godsend. Kids do not know how to do anything with a skidding low ball that goes further away from their strike zone. With that said, your slice mechanics are not a stroke. They are a sidespin hack. What you need to do is instead of starting the racquet high and finishing on the right side of your body, Imagine that you're driving your racquet face towards the opponent or target. This creates a driving ball that will have lots of heavy backspin that doesn't float and that will land deep. The key is the full extension between your arms. If you slice high to low, it will land with a lot of backspin and sit there mid court. If you go high to side, it will spin up into the air and then bounce into a different direction. If you take your racquet back high (handle by your head), and then drive through the ball (lean into the shot for more power, not faster swing) to the point that your racquethead ends up at the height of your chin, you'll have created a beautiful slice. A good slice is far flatter than what most people think. Reason is because the flat part generates the pace, but the backspin is what makes it skid and stay low.
 
P

papa

Hall of Fame
pvaudio said:
Didn't listen with sound, so I am just going by what I see which in this case is more important. While everyone else can cover all of the other strokes, let me give you a huge tip: at your level, a slice backhand is a godsend. Kids do not know how to do anything with a skidding low ball that goes further away from their strike zone. With that said, your slice mechanics are not a stroke. They are a sidespin hack. What you need to do is instead of starting the racquet high and finishing on the right side of your body, Imagine that you're driving your racquet face towards the opponent or target. This creates a driving ball that will have lots of heavy backspin that doesn't float and that will land deep. The key is the full extension between your arms. If you slice high to low, it will land with a lot of backspin and sit there mid court. If you go high to side, it will spin up into the air and then bounce into a different direction. If you take your racquet back high (handle by your head), and then drive through the ball (lean into the shot for more power, not faster swing) to the point that your racquethead ends up at the height of your chin, you'll have created a beautiful slice. A good slice is far flatter than what most people think. Reason is because the flat part generates the pace, but the backspin is what makes it skid and stay low.
Click to expand...

Very good post.

I know its been mentioned before but this particular stroke (slice backhand) has to be done quite different than what we see the pros doing. Pyaudio's description is excellent for most players who are not seeing a tremendous amount of rpm's on opponents balls. There have been several excellent articles about this but JY's recently was probably the best I've seen to date.

Nice job & I think very helpful to 99+% players.
 
P

pvaudio

Legend
Indeed, it is a very, very important ball to be able to hit. More importantly, if you can return a low slice with a deep slice, then you've really learned. Hacking a high backhand down with backspin isn't too difficult even for the average player, but being able to get the underspin, net clearance and depth to make a very defensive shot that gets you into better position is priceless. One of many lessons my coach taught me :)
 
A

Andre D

Rookie
pvaudio said:
Didn't listen with sound, so I am just going by what I see which in this case is more important. While everyone else can cover all of the other strokes, let me give you a huge tip: at your level, a slice backhand is a godsend. Kids do not know how to do anything with a skidding low ball that goes further away from their strike zone. With that said, your slice mechanics are not a stroke. They are a sidespin hack. What you need to do is instead of starting the racquet high and finishing on the right side of your body, Imagine that you're driving your racquet face towards the opponent or target. This creates a driving ball that will have lots of heavy backspin that doesn't float and that will land deep. The key is the full extension between your arms. If you slice high to low, it will land with a lot of backspin and sit there mid court. If you go high to side, it will spin up into the air and then bounce into a different direction. If you take your racquet back high (handle by your head), and then drive through the ball (lean into the shot for more power, not faster swing) to the point that your racquethead ends up at the height of your chin, you'll have created a beautiful slice. A good slice is far flatter than what most people think. Reason is because the flat part generates the pace, but the backspin is what makes it skid and stay low.
Click to expand...

first i want to make sure you meant the right side of my body, i am a left hander if you didnt noticed, seems pretty hard to finish on my right side, second, so i should just slice throught the ball? from high to low?
 
R

rkelley

Hall of Fame
Andre D said:
first i want to make sure you meant the right side of my body, i am a left hander if you didnt noticed, seems pretty hard to finish on my right side, second, so i should just slice throught the ball? from high to low?
Click to expand...

For what its worth I agree with pvaudio that you should come through your slice more. A good slice should have enough pace to have relatively low net clearance but still hit deep in your opponents court. The backwards rotation of the ball tends to make it float. If the ball stays low and has good foward velocity then that floating action keeps the ball from hitting the ground very hard, so it won't bounce up much and stay low. If the balls is lightly hit and arcs high over the net then it's going to drop into the court, bounce high and sit up. The less pace you get from your opponent the more pace you're going to have supply to hit a good shot.

IMO the slice to the side is a great shot for low balls. It creates a nasty sideways slicing action in addition to it staying low that makes it hard to hit. Again, you have to get some pace on the ball and keep the net clearance low. If you don't then it's just going to sit up.

For higher balls the racquet should have a more downward path. Just think of the racquet as pivoting at your shoulder. For waist and shoulder high balls a mostly downward motion is natural. For really low balls a sideways motion is natural. For all of them you want low net clearance and enough pace so that they hit near your opponents baseline.

I think the easiest way to hit the shot is to determine the angle that you want the racquet to have at impact, establish that racquet angle as you start the forward stroke, and then let your arm pivot at your shoulder as you sweep the racquet through the ball. Higher balls will have almost all backspin. Really low balls will have almost all side spin. Balls in between will be a combination. Make sure you turn your shoulders into the ball and get enough pace on it to hit it deep and keep it low over the net and you should have yourself a nasty little weapon.
 
A

Andre D

Rookie
rkelley said:
For what its worth I agree with pvaudio that you should come through your slice more. A good slice should have enough pace to have relatively low net clearance but still hit deep in your opponents court. The backwards rotation of the ball tends to make it float. If the ball stays low and has good foward velocity then that floating action keeps the ball from hitting the ground very hard, so it won't bounce up much and stay low. If the balls is lightly hit and arcs high over the net then it's going to drop into the court, bounce high and sit up. The less pace you get from your opponent the more pace you're going to have supply to hit a good shot.

IMO the slice to the side is a great shot for low balls. It creates a nasty sideways slicing action in addition to it staying low that makes it hard to hit. Again, you have to get some pace on the ball and keep the net clearance low. If you don't then it's just going to sit up.

For higher balls the racquet should have a more downward path. Just think of the racquet as pivoting at your shoulder. For waist and shoulder high balls a mostly downward motion is natural. For really low balls a sideways motion is natural. For all of them you want low net clearance and enough pace so that they hit near your opponents baseline.

I think the easiest way to hit the shot is to determine the angle that you want the racquet to have at impact, establish that racquet angle as you start the forward stroke, and then let your arm pivot at your shoulder as you sweep the racquet through the ball. Higher balls will have almost all backspin. Really low balls will have almost all side spin. Balls in between will be a combination. Make sure you turn your shoulders into the ball and get enough pace on it to hit it deep and keep it low over the net and you should have yourself a nasty little weapon.
Click to expand...

thanks i think ive got it
 
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