A lockout is on the average 15 minutes faster than a drop weight you do the math.
The real time saver relates to your proficiency in weaving the crosses. My personal view is that an upright crank (or if you want to pay for it, an electronic) with fixed clamps is simply a more enjoyable stringing experience and gives you a machine that is a practical tool should you ever wish to get to the point you wish to string a sigificant number of racquest (i.e., beyond your own sticks).
^^I can show you a video TW made where they used a NEOS to string a racket in under 7 minutes - that is 18 minutes faster. But there are a lot of techniques used in their method I would not use if I were stringing a racket. If you can string as fast on a KM as you can on a NEOS I would like to see the video.
I can string a racket in about 12 minutes but that is pushing it. Once one becomes proficient using a lockout I would assume they could save at least an average of 15 minutes over a drop weight.
In a 16*19 racquets you have 35 pulls. Lets say you are on a dropweight. You tension each pull in 30 seconds (which is not fast.). That would mean you spend 17,5 minutes each stringjob with tensioning with the dropweight. And you say you can get 15 minutes faster with just another tension head?
^^I can show you a video TW made where they used a NEOS to string a racket in under 7 minutes - that is 18 minutes faster. But there are a lot of techniques used in their method I would not use if I were stringing a racket. If you can string as fast on a KM as you can on a NEOS I would like to see the video.
I can string a racket in about 12 minutes but that is pushing it. Once one becomes proficient using a lockout I would assume they could save at least an average of 15 minutes over a drop weight.
I'm sure that I'd be faster on the Neos if I strung on it a lot. My only point, and it's not argumentative, is that the pulling process on the Klipper cam gripper is really fast once you're proficient and using a string that you're used to. I constantly see threads on here about how difficult dropweights are and how hard it is to get the bar horizontal, etc. It's just not true...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
agree
I too have come 'through the ranks' of machines. My first machine was an old Tremont wind up. I then had a Gamma drop weight and then a Neos and I added a Wise tension head a little over a year ago.
Crank is way better than drop weight from a user standpoint and electronic is better than crank. From strictly a stringing standpoint, I give it the same order.
I don't know if "better" is the right word but I generally agree with the ranking (the one exception being the Stringway as it does not seem to be a typical drop weight...
Funny you should mention the Tremont--I had one too (ordered out of the back of Tennis Magazine for about $70 then)--not a lot of room to do the crosses but it did work (saw one for sale recently on the Bay for $200--that's a lot for a collector's item).
Can someone comment on this problem I have? I found the tension is hard to set in lockout machine. After lockout, it keeps losing tension for quite long time. I use a digital fishing scale to calibrate the tension and it goes for more than 20 seconds depends on the string I used to calibrate.Crank is way better than drop weight ...
Can someone comment on this problem I have? I found the tension is hard to set in lockout machine. After lockout, it keeps losing tension for quite long time. I use a digital fishing scale to calibrate the tension and it goes for more than 20 seconds depends on the string I used to calibrate.
If that is the case, how would you set tension? What about hybrid job? also longer main will lose more than short cross? I don't think you can ever confidently say you had it at 55/52.
I think only the constant pull can say that confidently. (just realize my cheap reliable klippermate is a constant pull machine. )
Okay, I have an X2 but looking to upgrade to a Gamma x6fc or 602fc. I was also looking at the X-ST or Progression ST II, but for over $200 more than the dropweight machines? Is it worth it? Will it make me that much faster?
I think the biggest question comes down to how much stringing you do, and how valuable/limited your time is.
If you only string for yourself every few weeks, is the extra time saved really worth the up front cost?
However, if you string for others, and it's not uncommon to string 3-4 in a row, that extra time saved is very noticeable.
I enjoy stringing, in large part due to my ritual, which involves throwing in a DVD or catching up on a backlog of shows @ Hulu.
So, I try to string quickly, but relaxed. Consistency is the key.
I learned on a drop weight over 20 years ago, and currently use a Progression ST II (about 3 years now). The crank is certainly a faster/smoother experience, and if I find that my "customers" suddenly multiply exponentially, I will definitely throw on the Wise.
If I had a drop weight it would be an automatic drop weight like the Stringway but not a Stringway. Any drop weight can be made into an automatic drop weight by adding a pie shaped device to the arm and suspending the weight with a string that went around the outside of the pie device to keep the weight at a constant distance from the center of the rotating gripper. That way as long as the point where the string connects to the pie device is past a perpendicular line to the gripper and above horizontal you have the exact tension.
But if the weight has momentum and relies on the tensioned string to stop it you have overshoot no matter what 'type' of drop weight you have.
EDIT: If that description above is hard to understand let me know and I will draw a picture.
BTW, I am in the same situation you are in picking a machine but I don't live in Hawaii. The extra money for the crank is so hard to justify. I am at the point of trying to decide what my price is for a tipping point. A mostly personal decision, I realize.
If a crank is what you really want, then get it. You'll forget all about overshooting your budget if that's what you have your heart set on. Mind you, I make that recommendation on the assumption that you're not like...forsaking food or going without shelter just to have machine with a crank. ;-)
I think you're right. I am between a new gamma x-st and a used crank of some sort. I have a possibility of getting a 2005 Gamma 5003 with < 250 racquets strung on it with a Wise tensioner with < 150 racquets strung for about $650. Seems like a good deal, but I won't be seeing it in person before I purchase it. Financially, this is my one chance to upgrade my stringing machine. The 5003 has the metal clamps and quick action bases.
If the $200 really matters, I think people can get a good crank system used for the price of a high end traditional drop weight new - if they can be patient.
If the $200 really matters, I think people can get a good crank system used for the price of a high end traditional drop weight new - if they can be patient.
I almost bought this (asking $450). I posted in another thread and someone said that it's over 10 years old and the wing-nut clamp bases were a pain to use. For me, it wasn't worth it so I decided to just buy new and get a shiny new machine with a full warranty.
......So I placed my order for an X ST yesterday. I figured it will serve me and my family for 10+ years, without me needing or wanting to upgrade during that time.
The Gamma/Wise combo is a heck of a deal if they're in good shape. Course, when someone says a stringer has X number of string jobs on it, you never really know; you're taking them at their word. Still, there's simply not much that can go wrong with a machine of that type.
Were you able to view pics of the machine? Hiqh quality, close-up pics? You have to expect some cosmetic blemishes, but that should be a non-issue. Anyone you know live near the seller that could take a look at it for you?
Lastly, if you string for others you'll recoup your money in short order.
I'd love to see a picture. Thanks.