Fed beats Nadal on a high bouncing court?

CDestroyer · Mar 19, 2012

Nadal must be injured or something right? Maybe he has lost the mental edge on Federer since Novak wiped the court with him so easily, so many times last year. It was great to see Fed destroy ****. And then run the stone handed giraffe around the court like a headless chicken in the finals.

Fed is really on a roll.

kragster · Mar 19, 2012

CDestroyer said:
Nadal must be injured or something right? Maybe he has lost the mental edge on Federer since Novak wiped the court with him so easily, so many times last year. It was great to see Fed destroy ****. And then run the stone handed giraffe around the court like a headless chicken in the finals.

Fed is really on a roll.

Great win for Fed but I think that it shouldn't be a surprise to see Fed win matches against Rafa even on slower surfaces. Similarly I wouldn't be surprised if Rafa pulls one back against Nole. What would be interesting would be if Fed were to go on a big streak against Rafa or Rafa were to go on a streak against Nole ( to clarify, by surprising I don't mean from an ability standpoint but rather as a function of what has been the norm recently).

Nathaniel_Near · Mar 19, 2012

Nole needs to fix his form asap. He's living off reputation at the moment - his actual play is leaving a lot to be desired. He was virtually impotent against Isner in the semi-finals of IW. At one point, Isner had hit 18 winners, and Nole just 4! He is hitting with too much margin and when he decides to pull the trigger he is not at all confident he's going to make the shot and often makes a complete hash of it. He needs to rectify his form ASAP during Miami.

Deleted member 77403 · Mar 19, 2012

CDestroyer said:
Nadal must be injured or something right? Maybe he has lost the mental edge on Federer since Novak wiped the court with him so easily, so many times last year. It was great to see Fed destroy ****. And then run the stone handed giraffe around the court like a headless chicken in the finals.

Fed is really on a roll.

It is about confidence. It can do amazing things, especially when you are as talented and hardworking as Roger is. All those tough matches, and I go back to Davydenko in that epic in Rotterdam, helped him be more calmer on the court. Because it was those type of matches that he was losing.

You can see his gameplan now against Nadal, that that immense backhand abuse. Tactics he employed well indoors, seem to work outdoors also. However, I do believe that he is still vulnerable in the best of five matches against the big guys. If he can start pulling those matches out again, then he could be on a serious roll again.

But they say, every journey starts with one step. He has been making small steps at first, by winning Basel, those steps are getting bigger by his emphatic win in IW to become the greatest IW champion of all time.

joeri888 · Mar 19, 2012

Those so called ownages of Nole over Rafa and Rafa over Roger aren't as huge as their fans make it out to be. The differences are small and a few points can turn it around

kragster · Mar 19, 2012

joeri888 said:
Those so called ownages of Nole over Rafa and Rafa over Roger aren't as huge as their fans make it out to be. The differences are small and a few points can turn it around

Great point, I very much dislike the use of the word ownage as it is pretty demeaning to these guys who are all champions. I believe the term originated from kids playing video games and I'd rather it be left there.

kragster · Mar 19, 2012

Nathaniel_Near said:
Nole needs to fix his form asap. He's living off reputation at the moment - his actual play is leaving a lot to be desired. He was virtually impotent against Isner in the semi-finals of IW. At one point, Isner had hit 18 winners, and Nole just 4! He is hitting with too much margin and when he decides to pull the trigger he is not at all confident he's going to make the shot and often makes a complete hash of it. He needs to rectify his form ASAP during Miami.

I agree, despite his AO win I have not been impressed. I like Nole a lot better when he is aggressive and going for the lines. In fact I think by the second half of 2011 Nole had already started to live off his reputation.

Now that his mojo is gone, he better start getting more aggressive. I really hope the motivation to win his first FO brings back his aggressive game.

LeeD · Mar 19, 2012

Back to Fed, IW, the ball screamss thru the desert air, giving opponent's little time to react, even if the bounce is slow.
Rafa a little injured.
DJ winds on consistency, not multitudes of clean winners. He was waiting for Isnner to implode, but Isner decided to UP his service.

DjokovicForTheWin · Mar 19, 2012

I don't think you can conclude things out of singular matches and ask "Oh what happened?". Both guys are great players and well to put it bluntly, **** happens and anyone can win on a given day. It's just over many instances you can draw out patterns. Hell, Fed could beat Nadal on slow clay and Nadal could beat Fed at WTF. There is always an element of random variation that cannot be accounted for by Fedal canon law.

Leto · Mar 19, 2012

No conclusion can be made when the weather conditions are that bad.

I would make the statement also if Rafa had won.

Swissv2 · Mar 19, 2012

I was at the tournament, sitting 6 rows up from courtside so I could tell what was going on where they both played. It was very cold, windy, and wet; I would have wanted to wear a jacket during the match because it was so bad. Nadal could not get a good whack at that ball and Federer had to rely on his timing and footwork to even hit some of the balls. Both players were trying to play with/against the wind - though Federer handled it much better.

kragster · Mar 19, 2012

Swissv2 said:
I was at the tournament, sitting 6 rows up from courtside so I could tell what was going on where they both played. It was very cold, windy, and wet; I would have wanted to wear a jacket during the match because it was so bad. Nadal could not get a good whack at that ball and Federer had to rely on his timing and footwork to even hit some of the balls. Both players were trying to play with/against the wind - though Federer handled it much better.

I would imagine that the conditions would balance out strengths though. Wind should favor Rafa since Rafa hits with more margin while Fed plays a precision game. Dampness on the other hand should favor Fed, damper courts/higher humidity should equal slightly lower bounce.

Leto · Mar 19, 2012

kragster said:
I would imagine that the conditions would balance out strengths though. Wind should favor Rafa since Rafa hits with more margin while Fed plays a precision game. Dampness on the other hand should favor Fed, damper courts/higher humidity should equal slightly lower bounce.

Very thoughtful, but maybe too intellectual for your own good...

Let's face it....the weather just plain out sucked.

Why try to draw any conclusions from it when MOST matches will never have to factor in all of that stuff?

Marius_Hancu · Mar 19, 2012

I love that Fed won, but this isn't really a high-bouncing court, or wasn't on that day. Just average.

MichaelNadal · Mar 19, 2012

Swissv2 said:
I was at the tournament, sitting 6 rows up from courtside so I could tell what was going on where they both played. It was very cold, windy, and wet; I would have wanted to wear a jacket during the match because it was so bad. Nadal could not get a good whack at that ball and Federer had to rely on his timing and footwork to even hit some of the balls. Both players were trying to play with/against the wind - though Federer handled it much better.

Pretty much this. Not sure why people are so surprised at the result in the conditions that they had. One player was going to handle it better than the other.

veritech · Mar 19, 2012

Swissv2 said:
I was at the tournament, sitting 6 rows up from courtside so I could tell what was going on where they both played. It was very cold, windy, and wet; I would have wanted to wear a jacket during the match because it was so bad. Nadal could not get a good whack at that ball and Federer had to rely on his timing and footwork to even hit some of the balls. Both players were trying to play with/against the wind - though Federer handled it much better.

credit due to roger; both played under the same conditions and he was able to handle it much better than rafa.

mellowyellow · Mar 19, 2012

Nadal had a much tougher quarter match and is coming off a long layoff.

mellowyellow · Mar 19, 2012

This is what will make things interesting if Nadal were to ever drop from the top 4 spots, he would likely have to play 3 good opponents to win a tourney. If history is a good indicator, on anything but clay he can't do this. Just like Isner can't back up a big win with another big win. The match is so exhausting he has nothing left n the next match.

CDestroyer · Mar 19, 2012

Swissv2 said:
I was at the tournament, sitting 6 rows up from courtside so I could tell what was going on where they both played. It was very cold, windy, and wet; I would have wanted to wear a jacket during the match because it was so bad. Nadal could not get a good whack at that ball and Federer had to rely on his timing and footwork to even hit some of the balls. Both players were trying to play with/against the wind - though Federer handled it much better.

Nice. First hand experience of the conditions. Thanks for posting. It seems Nadal usually plays better than Fed in poor conditions iirc.

I hope it continues.

tistrapukcipeht · Mar 19, 2012

It wasn't bounsing high on that day, it cold and windy to say the list.

Nadal is trying to play more aggressive, therefore He made many more UE than his usual, but Nadal hasn't played that great as well.

However Fed is playing some insane tennis, I never saw somebody hit half volleys like if it was just regular practice. that was unbelievable what He did that day.

OddJack · Mar 19, 2012

LeeD said:
Back to Fed, IW, the ball screamss thru the desert air, giving opponent's little time to react, even if the bounce is slow.
Rafa a little injured.
DJ winds on consistency, not multitudes of clean winners. He was waiting for Isnner to implode, but Isner decided to UP his service.

baloney,

There was no desert air last Saturday. It was raining.

Rafa was not injured unless he says so or you are his doctor.

Swissv2 · Mar 20, 2012

OddJack said:
baloney,

There was no desert air last Saturday. It was raining.

Rafa was not injured unless he says so or you are his doctor.

Rafa didn't look too injured to me. I even saw him warming up on practice court 16 and he was moving quite well while hitting with Lopez, though it was a bit chilly. I will be posting a video of his practice session that day in a little while.

FlashFlare11 · Mar 20, 2012

Swissv2 said:
Rafa didn't look too injured to me. I even saw him warming up on practice court 16 and he was moving quite well while hitting with Lopez, though it was a bit chilly. I will be posting a video of his practice session that day in a little while.

He had just come back from a month-long break and won the doubles tournament.

Rusty? Maybe a bit.
Injured? No way.

TMF · Mar 20, 2012

Nadal is NOT injured, he's the fittest guy on the tour. The guy even play double with ease. Actually, players who weren't 100% are the players like Federer inflicted with a virus.

FlashFlare11 · Mar 20, 2012

TMF said:
Nadal is NOT injured, he's the fittest guy on the tour. The guy even play double with ease. Actually, players who weren't 100% are the players like Federer inflicted with a virus.

Found this comment by Pam Shriver, retweeted by FedererFan07. Does she not like Rafa?

FedererFan07 said:
#PamShriver talking about #Nadal's little niggles on his left foot, toe "nothing new there though, having aches when losing"

monfed · Mar 20, 2012

Fed needs to repeat this to silence the skeptics and I think he can do it.

morten · Mar 20, 2012

bring back the low bounce, skidding fast courts

CDestroyer · Mar 20, 2012

morten said:
bring back the low bounce, skidding fast courts

Isner would be number 1. How boring that would be.

TMF · Mar 20, 2012

FlashFlare11 said:
Found this comment by Pam Shriver, retweeted by FedererFan07. Does she not like Rafa?

Not surprise. I'm sure Nadal lost many respect(even from his fans) after taking a bathroom break when Roger was serving for the match.

kaleidoskope · Mar 20, 2012

BTW was there ever any match canceled because of "too much wind"?

morten · Mar 20, 2012

CDestroyer said:
Isner would be number 1. How boring that would be.

i don`t think he would, he would be too lazy to bend his knees on the first half volley return. He is simply not athletic enough.. Diversity and serve and volley tennis would be back. baseline bashing would decline a bit and strategy and touch would come back(not as much as before unfortunately but still...)

Murrayfan31 · Mar 20, 2012

Cold/Damp equals low bouncing.

TennezSport · Mar 20, 2012

Lingering.........

It was a very interesting match because of the way Fed was controling the ball for most of the match, much like he did at the WTF. The cold wet weather did make it a little like a indoor count reducing the high bounce, but the wind made it more difficult.

The thing that had me guessing was Rafa's serve. His first serve never went over 115mph (185kph) and his second serve was as low as 74mph (119kph). This seems really slow to me and I thought that he may still be nursing that sholder injury. His foot and knee issues are chronic and he will have to live with it. But what really threw me was what he said in the interview about being happy with the way he played.

"I'll consider it a good year if I keep playing the way that I am playing. Even if I don't win something really important, I'm happy."

This does not sound like a very confident person so something may be bothering him. We will see in Miami.

Cheers, TennezSport

ernestsgulbisfan#1 · Mar 20, 2012

Cheers, TennezSport 8)

Swissv2 · Mar 20, 2012

TennezSport said:
It was a very interesting match because of the way Fed was controling the ball for most of the match, much like he did at the WTF. The cold wet weather did make it a little like a indoor count reducing the high bounce, but the wind made it more difficult.

The thing that had me guessing was Rafa's serve. His first serve never went over 115mph (185kph) and his second serve was as low as 74mph (119kph). This seems really slow to me and I thought that he may still be nursing that sholder injury. His foot and knee issues are chronic and he will have to live with it. But what really threw me was what he said in the interview about being happy with the way he played.

This does not sound like a very confident person so something may be bothering him. We will see in Miami.

Cheers, TennezSport

To put this in a bit of perspective...all throughout the IW tournament, Nadal was being coached by Lopez's coach. I watched Nadal's practices, and his coach was getting him to spin/place the ball in a lot to accommodate for doubles serving. Nadal would go for a bigger serve when planning an aggressive point in singles but for the most part was content in spinning it in and getting the point started.

Sentinel · Mar 20, 2012

kragster said:
I would imagine that the conditions would balance out strengths though. Wind should favor Rafa since Rafa hits with more margin while Fed plays a precision game. Dampness on the other hand should favor Fed, damper courts/higher humidity should equal slightly lower bounce.

Shouldn't dampness make the ball heavier and make it more difficult for Fed to hit winners ?

LeeD said:
Back to Fed, IW, the ball screamss thru the desert air, giving opponent's little time to react, even if the bounce is slow.
Rafa a little injured.
.

Thanks for the info about Rafa. Sorry to hear about that. Hope he gets well quickly.

TMF · Mar 20, 2012

Lacks of confidence I can agree, but not injury. If the guy was injured, he wouldn't play double. Just because he lost to Fed doesn't mean he was injured(the old excuse).

Someone might want to check if he's playing double in Miami.

Sentinel · Mar 20, 2012

TMF said:
Not surprise. I'm sure Nadal lost many respect(even from his fans) after taking a bathroom break when Roger was serving for the match.

You gotta go when you gotta go.

Cheers, Senti.

FlashFlare11 · Mar 20, 2012

So, is dampness and humidity a double-edged sword for Roger? He can hit his backhand without as much exhaustion and be more aggressive with it, but he won't be able to hit as many winners.

ernestsgulbisfan#1 · Mar 20, 2012

I hope Nadal gets well soon.

He was so injured, otherwise he wouldn't lose a point to anyone.

Cheers, Bloognis 8)

CDestroyer · Mar 20, 2012

morten said:
i don`t think he would, he would be too lazy to bend his knees on the first half volley return. He is simply not athletic enough.. Diversity and serve and volley tennis would be back. baseline bashing would decline a bit and strategy and touch would come back(not as much as before unfortunately but still...)

Many of Isners volleys are laughable. Such a stoned handed lad that one.

Murrayfan31 · Mar 20, 2012

Sentinel said:
Shouldn't dampness make the ball heavier and make it more difficult for Fed to hit winners ?

Thanks for the info about Rafa. Sorry to hear about that. Hope he gets well quickly.

Fed has no problem hitting through a court when he gets consistent short balls. It's when the ball is jumping high and deep is when he has problems ending points.

jackson vile · Mar 20, 2012

It really dismisses the bouncy court excuse and high bouncing ball excuses as well. If Federer keeps improving and stop being scared he has show that he can defeat the only two players that have consistently defeated him.

I am a bit worried about Novak, he needs to take his play back to the 2011 level as well as that fight. Isner played so well, it was great to see.

Mike Sams · Mar 20, 2012

kragster said:
I agree, despite his AO win I have not been impressed. I like Nole a lot better when he is aggressive and going for the lines. In fact I think by the second half of 2011 Nole had already started to live off his reputation.

Now that his mojo is gone, he better start getting more aggressive. I really hope the motivation to win his first FO brings back his aggressive game.

It's impossible for any player to stay motivated for so long. The only thing Djokovic can do is defend points. There's really nothing for him to actually achieve until Roland Garros comes around. The one title which eludes him.
Even Federer post AO 2007 starting getting bored with tennis as his losses began to mount throughout spring hards and clay tournies. Between Indian Wells and Hamburg, Federer was completely disinterested and was losing to Volandri of all players. :lol:

Mike Sams · Mar 20, 2012

jackson vile said:
It really dismisses the bouncy court excuse and high bouncing ball excuses as well. If Federer keeps improving and stop being scared he has show that he can defeat the only two players that have consistently defeated him.

I am a bit worried about Novak, he needs to take his play back to the 2011 level as well as that fight. Isner played so well, it was great to see.

Why? It's a waste of mental and physical energy. He needs his best form for Roland Garros, Wimbledon and then the Olympics. The ATP is going to be cramming a crapload of tournaments into a small window and that's when everybody in the top 4 will need to peak.
I think Djokovic should do a SF at best for Miami, maybe go for 1 clay Masters and then make an attack at RG and Wimby.
Otherwise he will peak far too early into 2012. He has to pace himself and put priority on Slams which is where all the rankings points are.
And regardless of whether he lost points at IW, Nadal didn't gain anything on him since Nadal himself fell short. Federer still has a ton of work to do if he wants any chance of even replacing Nadal at #2 let alone regaining #1.

Dilettante · Mar 20, 2012

joeri888 said:
Those so called ownages of Nole over Rafa and Rafa over Roger aren't as huge as their fans make it out to be. The differences are small and a few points can turn it around

This. People here talks about tennis like if was theoretical physics or something.

kragster · Mar 20, 2012

Mike Sams said:
It's impossible for any player to stay motivated for so long. The only thing Djokovic can do is defend points. There's really nothing for him to actually achieve until Roland Garros comes around. The one title which eludes him.
Even Federer post AO 2007 starting getting bored with tennis as his losses began to mount throughout spring hards and clay tournies. Between Indian Wells and Hamburg, Federer was completely disinterested and was losing to Volandri of all players. :lol:

Yes but Fed had 4 years of winning everything. Novak has had only one. So it should be at least a couple of years before he starts getting burned out and focuses only on slams.

TMF · Mar 20, 2012

jackson vile said:
It really dismisses the bouncy court excuse and high bouncing ball excuses as well. If Federer keeps improving and stop being scared he has show that he can defeat the only two players that have consistently defeated him.

You never learn how to quit when you're well behind, do you ?
Keep trying to convince yourself that in the next 1,000 posts.

jackson vile · Mar 20, 2012

I think VK is correct, a large part of it for Roger was mental. Don't get me wrong I think that Roger also improved his game considerably as well. So For Roger he needs something to build on to build confidence and to let him know what he will have to do in order to win.

I agree that Federer isn't just going to "walk" his way to #2-1, that would be plain stupid and if for fanboys wanting to drink the coolaid. Then again, at the same time Federer showed that he is certainly on a streak again and is not some has been old man.

These are steps in the right direction, as long as he stays away from the excuses.

Mike Sams said:
Why? It's a waste of mental and physical energy. He needs his best form for Roland Garros, Wimbledon and then the Olympics. The ATP is going to be cramming a crapload of tournaments into a small window and that's when everybody in the top 4 will need to peak.
I think Djokovic should do a SF at best for Miami, maybe go for 1 clay Masters and then make an attack at RG and Wimby.
Otherwise he will peak far too early into 2012. He has to pace himself and put priority on Slams which is where all the rankings points are.
And regardless of whether he lost points at IW, Nadal didn't gain anything on him since Nadal himself fell short. Federer still has a ton of work to do if he wants any chance of even replacing Nadal at #2 let alone regaining #1.

DjokovicForTheWin · Mar 20, 2012

jackson vile said:
It really dismisses the bouncy court excuse and high bouncing ball excuses as well. If Federer keeps improving and stop being scared he has show that he can defeat the only two players that have consistently defeated him.

I am a bit worried about Novak, he needs to take his play back to the 2011 level as well as that fight. Isner played so well, it was great to see.

Oh so now you're claiming Novak is at a lower level and declining? LOL, these ****s never stop with the excuses.

Fed beats Nadal on a high bouncing court?

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