Power Player
Bionic Poster
Im going to use less SSers...I dont like what they do to the feel. It gets kind of crispy. Ill probably try and go without on my next job.
Pacific Classic 1.25 x MSV Co-Focus 1.18
- Thread starter Smasher08
- Start date
Smasher08
Legend
I've just finished restringing and can confirm that although stringsavers are reusable, they aren't reusable indefinitely.
Here's a photo I took of some that came out of one of my old frame. Look at the three on the right.
You see the little hole in them? That's caused by the wear and tear of friction. The one on the left without the hole is newer. Its teflon coating is still intact, so presumably it will slide more than the burned through ones.
I'd say that they can be reused once before this happens, depending on how long they're in the frame for.
Smasher08
Legend
Update - 71.5 hours (Set 2)
That's all she wrote! The additional SSers just took away too much feel and I was really, really struggling with touch shots -- which are my bread and butter in doubles.
So that's it, they've been cut out. The stringjob was magnificent until the last batch of SSers went in around the 58 hour mark. While I was starting to adjust to the increased stiffness and reduced spinniness, the loss of touch was a dealbreaker. RIP and thanks for the memories.
A new batch (set 4) went in at 51 x 47 lbs.
That's all she wrote! The additional SSers just took away too much feel and I was really, really struggling with touch shots -- which are my bread and butter in doubles.
So that's it, they've been cut out. The stringjob was magnificent until the last batch of SSers went in around the 58 hour mark. While I was starting to adjust to the increased stiffness and reduced spinniness, the loss of touch was a dealbreaker. RIP and thanks for the memories.
A new batch (set 4) went in at 51 x 47 lbs.
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Smasher08
Legend
Update - 1.5 hours (Set 4)
Had to post this.
I think the stringers who'd been doing my hybrids before had been prestretching my gut. Having now strung it with my X-6, the difference is remarkable: much livelier, spinnier, and a little more powerful.
Out of the gate, the spin was much more reminiscent of poly. It took 10 or 12 hours to get this spinny before. And the feel of the ball in the stringbed was dialled up by several notches. By comparison, it had been much more muted before.
I just did groundies tonight, but am very impressed. I'll report further after serving tomorrow.
In the meantime, I wonder how the spinnier properties of non-prestretched mains might affect the longevity. Hopefully, it won't have any effect at all.
Had to post this.
I think the stringers who'd been doing my hybrids before had been prestretching my gut. Having now strung it with my X-6, the difference is remarkable: much livelier, spinnier, and a little more powerful.
Out of the gate, the spin was much more reminiscent of poly. It took 10 or 12 hours to get this spinny before. And the feel of the ball in the stringbed was dialled up by several notches. By comparison, it had been much more muted before.
I just did groundies tonight, but am very impressed. I'll report further after serving tomorrow.
In the meantime, I wonder how the spinnier properties of non-prestretched mains might affect the longevity. Hopefully, it won't have any effect at all.
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Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
You don't pre-stretch your gut? I pre-stretch everything but polys.
Smasher08
Legend
Nope. And given how incredibly it's performed right off the bat, I honestly doubt I'll ever do it!
EDIT: here's an older thread I found on the topic. Perhaps others will take a different view, but I'm finding that non-prestretched gut has much more of the attributes that I look for in this particular type of hybrid.
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Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
I don't use the machine to pre-stretch gut. I just wrap it around a doorknob and pull until the coil memory is gone.
1) Easier to work with.
2) I believe there'll be less of a tension lost.
By the way, I just crossed my gut with MSV Co-Focus 1.18, and I absolutely hated stringing it. I fanned the crosses so it won't burn into the gut, but the Co-Focus didn't want to slide across the gut. It roughed up my fingernails! :evil:
In comparison, Polystar Energy weaved like it was butter.
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Posture Guy
Professional
yeah, I prestretch my gut, too, mostly for ease of stringing and avoiding kinking. I find non-stretched gut difficult to work with. I use Say's method, tie it around a doorknow and sit back into it.
I also concur with him about stringing Co-Focus. Love the way it plays, not a fan of stringing it.
I also concur with him about stringing Co-Focus. Love the way it plays, not a fan of stringing it.
polytheist
Rookie
My Klip Legend Tour is starting to lock up with Cofocus after 8-10 hours, I'm not sure the coating is agreeing with this hybrid combination. Maybe it will loosen up later when the coating wears off more.
Thinking just regular uncoated gut is the best partner for Cofocus. Anyone try totally uncoated gut with Cofocus?
Thinking just regular uncoated gut is the best partner for Cofocus. Anyone try totally uncoated gut with Cofocus?
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
That's my method.
I'm hoping Co-Focus won't play as nice as Polystar Energy, because I really did not enjoy stringing it.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
I dont prestretch my gut. I guess I am used to the tension drop...its usually just 5#s though.
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
So I had a chance to play with Co-Focus 1.18 in my blx90, Mamba premium gut 16g/MSV Co-Focus 1.18, 52/46lbs.
It does give me a tad more feel than Polystar Energy 17g, while retaining the same level of comfort.
That, and someone said it sounds like I'm hitting with a bat. :twisted:
It does give me a tad more feel than Polystar Energy 17g, while retaining the same level of comfort.
That, and someone said it sounds like I'm hitting with a bat. :twisted:
polytheist
Rookie
Do you use a dampener?
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
No, I hate dampeners, they turn the stringbed into a 2x4. Besides, dampeners only changes sound of impact to you, to everyone else it still sounds the same.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yeah it sounds so good when you are hitting clean with this setup.
It's funny how people are about dampeners..it is super subjective. I MUST have a dampener or it drives me crazy. Used one since I was 9 years old. Hit with a friends stick with no dampener and I hated all the vibrations and that up close **sprong** sound that I hear. But other people hate what I like..kind of funny how that works.
Smasher08
Legend
Same with me. I grew up with one and now a racket just doesn't feel right without one.
GlenK
Professional
Well the summer humidity in Florida is in high gear. Wilson Nat gut and MSV co-focus. I'd been getting great tension maintenance with this set up but the last string job is dropping like a rock.
My last two jobs in April averaged 7.3% & 7.9% loss after 3.5 hours. Last week strung up two and after 3.5 hrs they're both down about 11.4%.. Still plays great but longevity is dropping off quite a bit..
My last two jobs in April averaged 7.3% & 7.9% loss after 3.5 hours. Last week strung up two and after 3.5 hrs they're both down about 11.4%.. Still plays great but longevity is dropping off quite a bit..
D
Deleted member 25923
Guest
Have you tried Klip in place of pacific?
tennisinoc
Semi-Pro
Can someone explain this to me? Is Co-focus sticky or something?
Isn't it slick like most other round polys?
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
It's slick, very slick. I think the problem is my gut, not Co-Focus itself.
I'm not using Pacific Classic, but Mamba Premium Natural Gut, it's a dry gut. Some guts are dryer than others and that's the way it is. As you can imagine, the dryer the gut, the more friction it'll produce as I weave the crosses.
Also want to point out that string savers are awesome! They do stiffen up the string bed, but it's almost negligible. After 10minutes, I don't notice them anymore.
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Posture Guy
Professional
well, I string for myself on a Neos 1000, I'm not an accomplished stringer by any stretch. But my perspective is that poly is just stiffer than multis so they're harder to weave for someone like me who is stringing maybe 2-3 times a month instead of twice that many a day. If only every string was as easy to weave as NRG2.
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
Polys in general are a pain to string. Signum Pro Hyperion and Polystar Energy are the easiest to string, then strings like MSV Co-Focus is on the other end of the spectrum.
Posture Guy
Professional
I just strung up a stick with Prince Nat Gut instead of Pacific Classic. I want to try that one and the Wilson Nat Gut to see if either is worth the extra money over Classic.
Just took another shot at Performaxx gut instead of Pac Classic. Ugh. I just don't like that gut. Not sure what it is, maybe it's too stiff, but even after 5 hours of play I just didn't like it at all.
And to put up with the hassle of ordering it, the occasional unresponsiveness of the guy selling it, and the confusing brand lineup and seemingly constant name changes, it would have to be significantly better than the Classic for me to endure all of that, and it just isn't. Your mileage may vary, but that experiment won't be repeated.
Just took another shot at Performaxx gut instead of Pac Classic. Ugh. I just don't like that gut. Not sure what it is, maybe it's too stiff, but even after 5 hours of play I just didn't like it at all.
And to put up with the hassle of ordering it, the occasional unresponsiveness of the guy selling it, and the confusing brand lineup and seemingly constant name changes, it would have to be significantly better than the Classic for me to endure all of that, and it just isn't. Your mileage may vary, but that experiment won't be repeated.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
The mamba gut is very average to me..I am sticking with pacific classic or Wilson..etc.
Anyway, I have some cofocus crosses in at 1.27. I know a lot of you guys like the thinner gauge but my theory here is that this thicker gauge could last longer and also provide more control. Anyone used the thicker gauge? I almost always use the 1.23.
Anyway, I have some cofocus crosses in at 1.27. I know a lot of you guys like the thinner gauge but my theory here is that this thicker gauge could last longer and also provide more control. Anyone used the thicker gauge? I almost always use the 1.23.
Posture Guy
Professional
Just tried Prince Nat Gut. It's ok, some may like it better than Pac Classic. For me, it's a little too spongy and soft. If you like that feeling, you might like it better. But I like the crisper, slightly firmer feeling of Pac Classic.
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
That's my theory too, I'd imagine a thicker string won't saw through gut as quickly.
Smasher08
Legend
I've only used CoF in 1.18 and 1.23. The thicker the gauge, the greater the surface area in contact where the mains intersect the crosses, meaning greater friction and therefore less mains deflection and snap-back. In other words, less spin.
Since spin is a component of control, in that sense there will be less control. It's also true that because there will be more surface area in contact will mean less notching.
So what you'll likely get by increasing the gauge of your crosses is a less spinny hybrid. You could probably get the same result by increasing your tension on your current setup. But the tighter you go, the less spinny and less durable it'll be.
In theory, going to higher gauges could allow you to go looser while maintaining almost the same performance. Although for a very flat hitter, increasing the gauge of both your mains and crosses might tame the explosiveness of the stringbed.
The alternative to taming it, of course, is to hit with more spin.
Co-Focus?
Regarding co-focus poly, it comes in assorted colors. I presume the white plays the best? Depending how the color was added to the string changes the feel, from what I have noticed from feedback on the the forum. Thanks for all the valuable info. I have learned much from all of you.
Regarding co-focus poly, it comes in assorted colors. I presume the white plays the best? Depending how the color was added to the string changes the feel, from what I have noticed from feedback on the the forum. Thanks for all the valuable info. I have learned much from all of you.
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
I playtested the blue color,and I have since purchased a reel in white.
Why white? Tradition I guess. I don't care if people use brightly colored neon poly strings on their racquets, but it kind of annoys me on my racquet. I like mine to be simple and clean. It's got to be either white or "natural". Silver is pushing it.
Anyway, so far the white doesn't play any different than the blue version stocked by TW.
Why white? Tradition I guess. I don't care if people use brightly colored neon poly strings on their racquets, but it kind of annoys me on my racquet. I like mine to be simple and clean. It's got to be either white or "natural". Silver is pushing it.
Anyway, so far the white doesn't play any different than the blue version stocked by TW.
This is my go to setup now and so far I like it the best. what is your tension?
I imagine they all play the same. The white version surely also has a color additive to make it white just as any other color does.
Smasher08
Legend
I originally bought it in silver, but decided that white would look better with my racket. No other reason!
So I doubt there will be any noticeable difference in the smoothness or elasticity of it in any colour.
McLovin
Legend
Thanks for asking this. I've been considering giving Co-Focus a try, mostly because I have many customers that ask about different colored string. But I was curious about the playability of the different colors.
So, has anyone other than GlenK noticed a difference between the colors? And to GlenK, what colors did you try?
Obviously buying a reel is the most cost-effective route, unless I'm buying 4 different colors, then that can get expensive...
I seriously doubt anyone would notice a difference in a blind test with identical string-jobs on identical frames. Write to MSV and see what they say about it.
McLovin
Legend
I tend to agree, but I know people have commented on a difference between Gosen OG white & natural, and I have noticed a difference in Wilson Pro overgrip colors, so I was wondering if the same might apply here.
Plus, it could get expensive trying a blind test if I'm using this as a cross to my gut mains, which I sometimes will do.
I've heard that about gosen too. But the process is different. THere is an additive in the white that isn't in the natural. With co-focus, or any poly for that matter, there is an additve for whatever color is produced. That includes white. So I think the ingredient list and the process is the same for all colors, unlike with gosen.
I've played about 4 or 5 of the co-focus colors and my unscientific opinion is they were all the same.
McLovin
Legend
I called up GnG to ask about their high school/junior specials (I coach a high school girls team). After speaking with the salesperson for a few minutes (can't remember his name), he asked what I was interested in. I told him the Co-Focus & the Hex.
He then proceeded to send me some samples of each, free of charge.
Now, I'm not trying to take business from TW (God knows I've spent enough here over the years), but I must say that I was pleasantly surprised. I wasn't expecting free strings. A discount, maybe, but not free.
Anyway, they'll be here next week. I will put the Hex in my top player's racquet & see if she likes it (I've been giving her Tour Bite 18 mains, Gosen 17 crosses). I'm giving the Gut / Co Focus a shot & will post my feelings here.
He then proceeded to send me some samples of each, free of charge.
Now, I'm not trying to take business from TW (God knows I've spent enough here over the years), but I must say that I was pleasantly surprised. I wasn't expecting free strings. A discount, maybe, but not free.
Anyway, they'll be here next week. I will put the Hex in my top player's racquet & see if she likes it (I've been giving her Tour Bite 18 mains, Gosen 17 crosses). I'm giving the Gut / Co Focus a shot & will post my feelings here.
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
The thicker poly will likely last just the same as the thinner poly as poly simply never breaks and most polys die before it ever would actually break. It is not a multi or synthetic gut. The thinner poly will increase feel, spin, comfort, and playability. If you want a firmer string bed, that would be the reason to go to th thicker gauge poly - not so much durability.
I can't speak for Co-Focus since I only have the nice blue, but this is incredibly common and usually incredibly obvious:
Babolat
Pro Hurricane white vs blue (amazing vs. "is this even the same string?")
Genesis
SpinX grey vs pink (truly completely different)
Typhoon blue vs grey (softer vs. stiffer)
Technifibre
X-1 red vs natural (aka bad vs. good)
Gosen
OGSM natural, white vs black (crisp, awful, mediocre)
Discho
Iontec salmon vs. black (stiffer vs softer and spinnier vs more pop)
These are just examples off the top of my head from strings I've tried and own. Another example is WC Mosquito Bite, of which I'm 100% partial to the blue. I'd say the black is spinnier, but the blue has the most feel of all of them which is its defining trait.
I think I may be officially off the co-focus bandwagon. I've gotten SOOO comfortable with Outlast as my cross. Not only do I like the feel and performance, but what is most amazing about this string is how consistent it feels from hour 1 to hour 30 (speaking only about when used as cross with gut mains)
Last two times I've hit with the co-cofocus cross, it felt mushy in comparison. (fresh string job). Previously I had been using the co-focus frame more for singles and the outlast for doubles. But lately the outlast frame has shined more in singles too so I think I may be down to just one set-up instead of two.
Last two times I've hit with the co-cofocus cross, it felt mushy in comparison. (fresh string job). Previously I had been using the co-focus frame more for singles and the outlast for doubles. But lately the outlast frame has shined more in singles too so I think I may be down to just one set-up instead of two.
tennisinoc
Semi-Pro
Question: When you replace your crosses, do you keep the same cross pattern and put the new cross string back into the gut main string notches? Or do you reverse the pattern and string the crosses on the other side where there there are no notches? Comprende?
I always wondered what the pro or cons of doing either way would be.
I keep them in the same pattern using the same notches. My feeling is if I reverse the pattern and start new notches on the opposite side it will weeken the mains much more quickly. Plus, if you are one to keep the crosses in proper alignment as you go, the stringing process goes a little faster as the strings just snap into place into the old notches.
Smasher08
Legend
Good advice. My other thought is that if the notching results in natural oils seeping out and lubricating the crosses (thereby increasing spin) then why not keep that spinniness by using the same pattern.
McLovin
Legend
OK, so I got my test set last night: Co Focus 1.23 in the 'ocean blue' (will provide photos later today). I strung it in my X Force Pro using my normal tensions (Pacific Classic 17 mains @ 58, Co Focus crosses 56).
For comparison, I had a fresh racquet at the same tension with SPPP 1.23 in the cross (same mains, same tensions).
First off, during stringing I thought I wasn't going to like it. It seemed a tad stiff compared to SPPP, but I kept an open mind hoping it would produce. Well, good thing I did, because I really liked it. It wasn't stiff at all, and seemed to have nice spin & power, but also good feel.
During warm up I switched back & forth between the SPPP & Co Focus, and just felt more comfortable with the Co Focus racquet. I played 2 sets in the 90 degree heat on clay and felt real good about my strokes, my serve in particular. While I beat the guy 1 & 1, that isn't really an indicator since I'm a 4.5 & he's a 4.0 (those are my normal scores against him). But everything just felt solid.
I play again today against a 4.5 (soon to be 5.0) college kid, so I will get a better indication of how it plays this afternoon. But unless something drastic happens, I'm just about ready to pick up a reel.
For comparison, I had a fresh racquet at the same tension with SPPP 1.23 in the cross (same mains, same tensions).
First off, during stringing I thought I wasn't going to like it. It seemed a tad stiff compared to SPPP, but I kept an open mind hoping it would produce. Well, good thing I did, because I really liked it. It wasn't stiff at all, and seemed to have nice spin & power, but also good feel.
During warm up I switched back & forth between the SPPP & Co Focus, and just felt more comfortable with the Co Focus racquet. I played 2 sets in the 90 degree heat on clay and felt real good about my strokes, my serve in particular. While I beat the guy 1 & 1, that isn't really an indicator since I'm a 4.5 & he's a 4.0 (those are my normal scores against him). But everything just felt solid.
I play again today against a 4.5 (soon to be 5.0) college kid, so I will get a better indication of how it plays this afternoon. But unless something drastic happens, I'm just about ready to pick up a reel.
polytheist
Rookie
Which is softer, the Outlast or Cofocus?
Smasher08
Legend
Update - 43 hrs (set 4) & 64 hrs (set 3)
Fyi, take the hours of set 3 with a grain of salt -- the vast majority of those are from teaching.
Set 4, however (51x47, non-prestretched) has been a revelation: unlike previous sets, I didn't feel any poly death throes during hours 20-30. At all.
In all honesty, I don't know it that's a fluke or a placebo effect or what. But I don't recall feeling it with set 3 either (49x45, non-prestretched) so there may be something there.
The other big difference (aside from being much livelier-feeling and spinnier off the bat) is that at tension the mains aren't as thin as before. So I'm hoping that translates into more longevity.
So far I've only had to add 1 additional SSer, and as you can see there's now a little bit of fraying.
Fyi, take the hours of set 3 with a grain of salt -- the vast majority of those are from teaching.
Set 4, however (51x47, non-prestretched) has been a revelation: unlike previous sets, I didn't feel any poly death throes during hours 20-30. At all.
In all honesty, I don't know it that's a fluke or a placebo effect or what. But I don't recall feeling it with set 3 either (49x45, non-prestretched) so there may be something there.
The other big difference (aside from being much livelier-feeling and spinnier off the bat) is that at tension the mains aren't as thin as before. So I'm hoping that translates into more longevity.
So far I've only had to add 1 additional SSer, and as you can see there's now a little bit of fraying.
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Smasher08
Legend
Btw: a theory on the lack of my noticing the dying phase of CoF.
Perhaps it was because it was more or less masked by the much livelier un-prestretched mains
In other news, I'm up to 94 hours on my teaching setup (so take the hours with a grain of salt) and 55 in my playing one. Only 1 SSer is in the playing stringjob, as notching doesn't appear to be too bad yet. Full credit to the thicker un-prestretched mains!
As for playing characteristics, there's little more to add: it's simply phenomenal.
Perhaps it was because it was more or less masked by the much livelier un-prestretched mains
In other news, I'm up to 94 hours on my teaching setup (so take the hours with a grain of salt) and 55 in my playing one. Only 1 SSer is in the playing stringjob, as notching doesn't appear to be too bad yet. Full credit to the thicker un-prestretched mains!
As for playing characteristics, there's little more to add: it's simply phenomenal.
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