What is your quirk?

Loose Cannon said:

I assure you I can hit 'Moonballs' that would bounce near the baseline and jump over you. I feel guilty doing in mixed.....as quite a few women are short....5'6 and under. If one is 5'2....they would hate me. I use ALOT of topspin. I dont call them Moonballs.....just alot of TS 'loopers' and they can put the defender closer to the fence than the baseline.

Click to expand...

Oh, OK. You call it a looper, I call it a moonball. Whatever. It sounds like we are hitting the same shot: A topspin ball that bounces near the baseline and jumps over the head of the opponent.

The difference between us is that I feel no guilt about doing it, to women or men.

Mine is that I go out of my way not to have any weird routines. I don't want to have excuses so I don't have routines that I might find weird. For example, the three ball thingy on the first page. What if the ball was hit outside the fence and landed in a ravine you couldn't reach? (Yes, I play in many oddly located courts.) What do you do then? Freak out? I rather just hit the ball and think of nothing else.

This is not to suggest that I didn't used to have quirks. I did. One was that I'd never serve with a ball that I just faulted or hit the let cord with. Or I have to use the same ball I just had an ace with. Now, I just play whatever ball I grab. If I miss a serve and my opponent hit it right back to me, I'll use it for the 2nd serve too.

Let's face it! We're not that good!

My quirks (1) how I hold the racket when serving and receiving; and (2) making sure I cross a sideline of the court when returning to the baseline after a point is played.
As to the first, the word "Prince" on the throat of the racket is up when I'm in the deuce court and upside down when I'm in the ad court , both when serving and when receiving.
As to the second, Vitas Gerulaitis always walked the around the perimeter of the court when returning to the baseline to serve or receive. For some strange reason, I always cross inside. Do not ask me why.

floridatennisdude said:

Ok, those are rules issues.

What are some of your rituals or nuances?

Click to expand...

Nothing in particular.

dak95_00 said:

Mine is that I go out of my way not to have any weird routines. I don't want to have excuses so I don't have routines that I might find weird. For example, the three ball thingy on the first page. What if the ball was hit outside the fence and landed in a ravine you couldn't reach? (Yes, I play in many oddly located courts.) What do you do then? Freak out? I rather just hit the ball and think of nothing else.

This is not to suggest that I didn't used to have quirks. I did. One was that I'd never serve with a ball that I just faulted or hit the let cord with. Or I have to use the same ball I just had an ace with. Now, I just play whatever ball I grab. If I miss a serve and my opponent hit it right back to me, I'll use it for the 2nd serve too.

Let's face it! We're not that good!

Click to expand...

Totally we aren't that good!

As for the first paragraph, if a ball goes outside the fence I will have it retrieved by someone watching or nearby as soon as possible. If we are the only ones playing, I will offer to retrieve it (or replace it with a new one) as soon as I can.

It's crazy, but I know I am a total head case when that 3rd ball isn't under my control when I'm serving.

floridatennisdude said:

Totally we aren't that good!

As for the first paragraph, if a ball goes outside the fence I will have it retrieved by someone watching or nearby as soon as possible. If we are the only ones playing, I will offer to retrieve it (or replace it with a new one) as soon as I can.

It's crazy, but I know I am a total head case when that 3rd ball isn't under my control when I'm serving.

Click to expand...

I usually do whatever I can to NOT give the third ball to the person that cant play with the other two. I enjoy seeing the uncomfortable nature of one being in need..of a mere tennis ball. Its mental gamesmanship.

USS Tang said:

My quirks (1) how I hold the racket when serving and receiving; and (2) making sure I cross a sideline of the court when returning to the baseline after a point is played.
As to the first, the word "Prince" on the throat of the racket is up when I'm in the deuce court and upside down when I'm in the ad court , both when serving and when receiving.
As to the second, Vitas Gerulaitis always walked the around the perimeter of the court when returning to the baseline to serve or receive. For some strange reason, I always cross inside. Do not ask me why.

Click to expand...

Wow.....thats Deep!

Timbo's hopeless slice said:

YES!!! I do this exact same thing!

I also do this strange thing when I'm serving where I set up, bounce the ball a couple of times, pause, look up at the sky for no apparent reason, then bounce the ball a couple more times and serve.

I am NOT looking for divine intervention, flying saucers or a change in the weather, I am just staring at the sky blankly for a second or two...

Click to expand...

ok, proof that

a) the reach of TT is greater than anyone could possibly imagine
b) there are some clever buggers out there.
c) I have stalkers!

Went for a match the other night, just filling in for a friend in a league I don't normally play (although I know most of the players, there aren't that many 5.0s in a small town!)

Anyway, all was normal, hit up, won the toss and shaped up to serve.
As I am going through my routine, as I paused, my opponent (who had clearly been just waiting for this moment) called out:

"don't worry Tim, there aren't any flying saucers, we are playing indoors and the gods are on my side!"

smartass

Timbo's hopeless slice said:

ok, proof that

a) the reach of TT is greater than anyone could possibly imagine
b) there are some clever buggers out there.
c) I have stalkers!

Went for a match the other night, just filling in for a friend in a league I don't normally play (although I know most of the players, there aren't that many 5.0s in a small town!)

Anyway, all was normal, hit up, won the toss and shaped up to serve.
As I am going through my routine, as I paused, my opponent (who had clearly been just waiting for this moment) called out:

"don't worry Tim, there aren't any flying saucers, we are playing indoors and the gods are on my side!"

smartass

Click to expand...

That is fantastic LOL!!!

-Fuji

speaking of stalkers..

You shouldn't. It gives me hell and did today. I played some young guy that was wearing a Ga Tech club tennis team shirt(probably not the smartest idea playing 4.0), but I'm not one to complain and didn't even notice it until someone after the match pointed it out. The guy had a massive first and second serve and moved it all over the box so it was hard to get a read on. First serves were sticking in the mid of the fence, but more than anything his top spin was killing me. I couldn't rip through hardly any backhands and at times was reaching over my head to hit forehands.lol On top of all of that he was probably 21 or 22. I lost 1 and 6. got to 30 30 when he was serving 5 6 but he then picked it up with the last two points of that game and got to 6 1 in the tiebreak before I reeled off like 4 straight points before I hit the last ball out. Topspin is a biotch...at least for me. I think you should both hit it if it gives the other person problems. You do what it takes to win. You can't worry about what people think in the stands.

Cindysphinx said:

Oh, OK. You call it a looper, I call it a moonball. Whatever. It sounds like we are hitting the same shot: A topspin ball that bounces near the baseline and jumps over the head of the opponent.

The difference between us is that I feel no guilt about doing it, to women or men.

Click to expand...

For me, I always knock the clay off my feet between points. Even when I'm playing on hard courts...

This is something I developed years ago & just keep doing. Not sure when it started, but I have had people comment on it to me.

McLovin said:

For me, I always knock the clay off my feet between points. Even when I'm playing on hard courts...

This is something I developed years ago & just keep doing. Not sure when it started, but I have had people comment on it to me.

Click to expand...

Not even Nadal does that ................ and he has surely played on clay

McLovin said:

For me, I always knock the clay off my feet between points. Even when I'm playing on hard courts...

This is something I developed years ago & just keep doing. Not sure when it started, but I have had people comment on it to me.

Click to expand...

Tell them it increases the blood flow in your soles and allows you to move faster and helps remain injury free.

soon, all of them would start doing it.

And then you can stop and tell what a crazy bunch of people you play with. :twisted:

McLovin said:

For me, I always knock the clay off my feet between points. Even when I'm playing on hard courts...

This is something I developed years ago & just keep doing. Not sure when it started, but I have had people comment on it to me.

Click to expand...

I don't do it on every point, but I often knock my racquet onto my shoes when playing indoors. At the MSU Tennis Facility where I play, the ball fuzz builds up and clings to the bottoms of your shoes. Easy to slip if you aren't careful. So, that's another excuse you can use if someone mocks you.

Well, here is one that I can think of. Whenever 3 balls are in reach before a serve, I inspect them and reject one, like the pros.

zcarzach said:

I don't do it on every point, but I often knock my racquet onto my shoes when playing indoors.

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OK, maybe I exaggerated a little by bolding 'always', but I do it at least 2-3 times per game, even indoors.

And every time I do it on hardcourts, I think "why did you just do that?". Idiot.

Very briefly, I stare at the spot where my shots missed. Many people think I am accusing them of a bad call, but I explain to them that I am mentally correcting my swing, or my mechanics, hoping to do better on the next shot.
I constantly tug at my shirt below my chin, no reason for that.
I go out of my way to not step in the doubles alley during changeovers, not sure why, but people comment on it frequently.

when im mad, i make fart noises.


Legit.

No way could I stay focused at the net if my partner was tossing 4 or 5 balls before serving. I'd have to move back to the baseline to keep my sanity.

Playing on loud city rec courts (much in point trash type talk), I've picked up some bad groaning habits when mis-hitting and ball is still in play.

If I get mad, I smash the ball into the fence. I feel like it is the best way to let it out stress without throwing the stick or doing something super rude.


Not even sure if that's a quirk.

I do like having a Meelar lite or 2 before I play sometimes. Usually helps with the first part.

Always play with even-numbered balls if I am opening. Means I buy only even-numbered balls obviously. If I am on a winning streak during districts or sectionals I will wear the same clothes for each match. I do wash them. I usually end up with a favorite pair of underwear wristbands hat etc. During any winning streak I listen to the same Cd in my car...one summer I listened to uncle tupelos still feel gone the whole friggin summer...I have others...

I cannot hit a second serve with the ball I used for the first. if its a fault and comes back to me I have to cast it aside.

Apparently it doesn't bother me to have a small dog running around on court during a point. In fact it really adds to the fun factor. hehe

But for real, my quirk is that I feel incomplete on court without my old ratty BMW cap. My form feels all loose when I don't wear that cap specifically. I've lost every point that the hat has ever blown off my head mid rally. Placebos are annoying!

tennis_ocd said:

No way could I stay focused at the net if my partner was tossing 4 or 5 balls before serving. I'd have to move back to the baseline to keep my sanity.

Playing on loud city rec courts (much in point trash type talk), I've picked up some bad groaning habits when mis-hitting and ball is still in play.

Click to expand...

I agree on the ball tossing. Once or twice in a match, I can live with, but if it's consistently going on, that is really annoying. I used to play someone that did that, at first, I tolerated it but when it started to throw the timing off on my return I had to say something. He said he was sorry, but that didn't make things any better as he kept doing it. We eventually stopped playing each other. A few years later I played him in a league match and he had finally learned how to do a service toss.

I quirk I had at one time was taking the full 25 seconds to serve up the ball. Quite a few players pointed out I was stalling, I mentioned I was within the time limit. I read a book or saw a video that instructed players to take the 25 second time limit. It really shouldn't take the full 25 seconds to lay out your plan for the next point and all that mental coaching going on. If you want any practice partners you better just serve the ball up, as it puts your opponent to sleep. I realized it was ridiculous to do a 25 second stall and stopped doing it.

cll30 said:

Cindy, I agree with you on most things, but if your toss is really that unreliable, you need to practice your toss. And as others have said, you can practice your toss anywhere. Saying the receiver just needs to deal with it is a total cop out.

Click to expand...

+1

Tossing 5 times is nuts. Unless it is windy/sun in strike zone, one caught toss per game is too much. If you're rolling two dice and the total comes up 3 but wanted 12 do you discard the result of 3 and keep rolling until you get 12?

You just have to accept what you "rolled" and hit it. You cannot expect an opponent to keep split-stepping and adrenalin-rushing so many times.

You just have to accept what you "rolled" and hit it. You cannot expect an opponent to keep split-stepping and adrenalin-rushing so many times.

Click to expand...

Sure you can because thats what the rules say that the returner has to do. If you want to personally handicap yourself by chasing every single toss no matter what then that is all well and good but there is nothing at all in the rules that backs up your point of view.

And I totally agree that if repeated catching and tossing ever became a widespread issue then they very well may make a rule change.

My quirk is hi-jacking threads that have been hi-jacked, digging up old, long threads that may be relevant and informative as well as entertaining.

Talk Tennis > Miscellaneous > Tennis Tips/Instruction > Clarify service rule for me
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tetsuo10
02-24-2005, 02:57 AM
When the server tosses the ball, he has the choice of attempting a swing or letting it go. Does anyone know if there is a limit to the number of times the server can do this on one service attempt? I seem to remember reading or hearing a long time ago that the server is allowed one bad toss, but then he must hit the next toss, but I can't seem to find any rule on this.
moosryan
02-24-2005, 04:09 AM
i've always thought you got as many as needed or wanted
FiveO
02-24-2005, 04:47 AM
Yes and no. It's really covered by the "Continuous Play Rule" below:


"30. Continuous Play & Rest Periods
Play shall be continuous from the first service until the match is concluded, in accordance with the following provisions:
a. If the first service is a fault, the second service must be struck by the Server without delay.
The Receiver must play to the reasonable pace of the Server and must be ready to receive when the Server is ready to serve.

When changing ends a maximum of one minute thirty seconds shall elapse from the moment the ball goes out of play at the end of the game to the time the ball is struck for the first point of the next game.
The Umpire shall use his discretion when there is interference which makes it impractical for play to be continuous.

The organisers of international circuits and team events recognised by the ITF may determine the time allowed between points, which shall not at any time exceed twenty (20) seconds from the moment the ball goes out of play at the end of one point to the time the ball is struck for the next point."



In practice however, its not an absolute line in the sand. In the professional ranks, with officials, if its deemed the server is making a real attempt to put the ball in play, I've never seen the 20 second rule enforced. In fact I never saw the rule enforced on the pro or any other level. But I feel it could be.

Rafter had a notoriously erratic toss and I never saw the rule enforced against him. Also, several years ago at the US Open, Agassi played a night match against an opponent, (whose name I can't remember) who made so many toss attempts before actually putting the ball in play that the crowd started turning on him. Until Agassi had a melt-down over it and while he was serving, mocked his opponent's errant tosses, by tossing and catching the ball multiple times while staring the offender down. The crowd turned on Agassi and I think he lost the match. To this day I'm not sure if Andre's opponent's toss was that bad or if it was an "unsportsman-like" ploy. That's the real problem.

In recreational/amateur tennis there is no umpire to enforce any rule. And while I'm unaware of any rule limiting the number of errant tosses the server is allowed, if the multi-toss symptom is excessive or if one's opponents believe its a ploy intended to break concentration or rhythm the "offender" will probably find his/her play partner list getting shorter.

Etiquette states that the offender should apologize each time it happens and I agree with that.
Marius_Hancu
02-24-2005, 06:56 AM
Rafter had a notoriously erratic toss and I never saw the rule enforced against him. Also, several years ago at the US Open, Agassi played a night match against an opponent, (whose name I can't remember) who made so many toss attempts before actually putting the ball in play that the crowd started turning on him. Until Agassi had a melt-down over it and while he was serving, mocked his opponent's errant tosses, by tossing and catching the ball multiple times while staring the offender down. The crowd turned on Agassi and I think he lost the match. To this day I'm not sure if Andre's opponent's toss was that bad or if it was an "unsportsman-like" ploy. That's the real problem.

1998 US Open, Hard, R16
R16
Kucera won
6-3 6-3 6-7 1-6 6-3
I think Kucera simply had a bad day. I don't remember him mentioned otherwise for any unsportsmanlike conduct.
FiveO
02-24-2005, 07:04 AM
Marius,

I'm comforted to know that as the number of my "senior moments" increase, you'll be there to help locate my missing files. Now if you could only help me find my car keys.

Thanks
kevhen
02-24-2005, 12:51 PM
When I served and vollied the other night I was taking time to settle and focus myself between serves. Each serve was still like less than 20 seconds from when the point or first serve had ended. But it sounds like when you serve and volley, you need to quickly get back to serve again. To play good serve and volley, I didn't want to rush myself between serves, but maybe that is not technically legal. But it does seem like you need to catch your breath after making a quick charge to net so that you can focus on a good toss, serve, and visualize that first volley on each serve. I served and vollied on both first and second serves.
fantom
02-24-2005, 01:40 PM
I remember that match. Boy, Agassi was pi$$ed.

I don't think Kucera would tell you it was a bad day. That was probably one of his best wins.
Datacipher
02-24-2005, 01:55 PM
I think Kucera was just having a bad day but man, I dont' blame Agassi for being annoyed. I think Kucera did something like 26 false tosses.....how often do you see that at any level let alone the pros?

Though in regards to the time limit, I think most of Kucera's bad tosses were singular...one bad toss per serve more or less....if had done multiple bad tosses on the same point, then I suspect the umpire would have stepped in....
Datacipher
02-24-2005, 02:02 PM
heh, I was trying to remember if it really was 26 bad tosses....so I was looking for info and came across Agassi's interview, here some highlights:

Q. You felt last night that he was doing that on purpose, that he repeatedly was catching it to play with you?

ANDRE AGASSI: No, I didn't believe that at all, actually. But it doesn't mean that when you toss the ball and don't hit it 18 times, that it doesn't have an impact on me. So at some stage, you know, whether he meant it or not, it's not acceptable. But I don't believe he meant that, no. I think as he got nervous to close me out in the third set, the worst part of his game started getting worse.





Q. Did you appeal to Norm yesterday about the ball tosses?

ANDRE AGASSI: Yes. I was just inquiring with him if there's any rulings about how many times he can do that. I mean, Norm said that there's no rule on it. Then I just requested that the clock continue then. Because, I mean, you know, you get 25 seconds to get the ball in play. If he's tossing it and not hitting it, I mean, that's distracting.

Q. What did he say about that?

ANDRE AGASSI: Nothing. I mean, I then asked him if I did it every time, if that would be all right.

Q. Did he say "okay"?

ANDRE AGASSI: No. He just gave me that stupid look he gives.
(LOL)




Q. Do you somehow regret that you imitated him three times in a row then at 3-4?

ANDRE AGASSI: No. Why would I regret that?

Q. Well, is that the way it should be played?

ANDRE AGASSI: Listen, man, the guy is tossing it up and catching it, right? Is that the way it should be played?

Q. You yourself said that you didn't think he did it on purpose.

ANDRE AGASSI: Right, but there's still ramifications.

Q. I understand.

ANDRE AGASSI: What he does, whether it's on purpose or not, has a direct impact on me. I overlooked it the first eight times, and then I inquired with Norm. Then I let it go another five times. And then by the time we get 16, 17 times, I had a problem with it, yeah.

Q. You did get the crowd in it by that way.

ANDRE AGASSI: No. I got the crowd in it because I started actually playing a little bit better.
(not sure this is true at all, Agassi started playing very weak moonballs, pumping fist, saying "come on!" (sound familiar) and glaring at Kucera)



Q. Did you have fun when you were trying to disrupt his game and get back into the game, and the crowd was getting into it? Was it fun?

ANDRE AGASSI: I mean, I'm not out there, you know, to have fun. I'm out there competing. You know, I mean, no. It was competitive. Competition's fun. But, I mean, I don't quite know how you mean that.

Q. I guess what she means is, did you loosen up, attitude, "I have nothing to lose." I think that's maybe what she might have meant.

ANDRE AGASSI: Is that what she meant?

Q. I'm just guessing that may have been it. What I actually meant, Andre, it looked somewhat like you were enjoying yourself in a way. Were you or were you not?

ANDRE AGASSI: Well, I mean, I certainly wasn't enjoying the way it was going up to that point. And, yeah, it did feel good to at least make the stage even out there, have him deal with a few -- you know, a few focuses on the ball, then have to pull up and have to watch the guy say I'm sorry for the 18th time. Again, it doesn't matter whether I meant it or he meant it. The bottom line is, when that happens, there's a direct impact that happens on the match. I mean, Brian Teacher used to throw up a lot of bad ball tosses. Out of respect that he didn't have a consistent ball toss, he would hit a lot of ball tosses. Karol Kucera wasn't hitting one he didn't like. When you get to 15, 16, 18 times, that's unreasonable. It's not to say that he's a bad guy for it. It's just not -- it's asking a lot of a player to put up with that. I think he would agree with that, too, that it happened a lot more than he would care for it to happen.



Q. The last time you put so many moon balls in a match, been a while?

ANDRE AGASSI: Quarterfinals of the Boys' 12 Nationals.

(continued)

Nope. (I owed you at least 1, KK)

At least in these here parts, its handled like that net cord winner, and begs for that apology. Guess it came from my old Aussie role models, followed by the Armrittajs, Edbergs, Rafters, etc.. Sportsmanship, c'mon, you know. Nope?

If you would you grant a re-write of that line in the previous post, I would concede it should have read:

An "I'm sorry" after an errant toss would be nice?

Everybody good with that? Better? Okay? Alright? Good.

Never said you had to mean it! (he said with a nod and a wink)
FiveO
02-24-2005, 05:08 PM
KK,

Ya know, in retrospect it probably is written down somewhere...

right after...

"One shouldn't retrieve an errant ball from your neighbor's court while their point is in progress."

and just before...

"While changing ends of court after an odd game, one should not change his sweaty jock strap at the net post."




(w/ 2 nods and 2 winks)
Kaptain Karl
02-24-2005, 05:58 PM
At least in these here parts, its handled like that net cord winner, and begs for that apology.This is getting funny. Here goes....

I never apologize for net cord winners either. I follow BJ King's line, "If I hadn't hit it well enough to go over, it wouldn't have."

For the record, I also never whine about my opponent's net cord winner. Same philosophy applies. [In my Upstate NY High School we called them "snakes". I think it had to do with how those shots *crawled* over the net.]

Guess it came from my old Aussie role models...I don't recall ever seeing Laver, Newcombe, Rosewall, Court or Goolagong indicate any type of apology for catching a toss. Nor do I recall Perry, Smith, Ashe, et al doing this. (I think you are "projecting" your ethic on those who you'd like to say would have done this....)

Sportsmanship, c'mon, you know.::sigh:: I believe every person I have played (since age 19, when I stopped being a baby on the court) would tell you my sportsmanship is unsullied.

I coach a HS team. I've posted on other threads how I will not tolerate poor sportsmanship from my boys. They *know* "Coach will forfeit me if I act like a jerk." (And I have ... and the rest of the penalty is being benched from the next two dual matches.) My kids are gentlemen on the court. It is important to me.

Never said you had to mean it! (he said with a nod and a wink)Okay, *that* was funny.

Seriously, fellow TW-ers, am I missing some code of conduct here? Or is this one of those, "That's the way I've always seen it done" things?

- KK
FiveO
02-24-2005, 07:07 PM
KK,
Firstly and lastly just so you and everyone else understands, a lot of what I wrote earlier was written tongue-in-cheek. Alot but not all.

"Projecting?" NO! Emulating. As far as the apologies witnessed in person:

Laver: yup. US Open, Forest Hills

Roche: yup. US Open, Forest Hills

* / **Newcombe: yup. Nassau Coliseum, WTC Tour Event (jeez does anyone else remember that tourney)

* / **Smith (Stan): yup. Field court, US Open, Forest Hills, v. Michael Fishbach (sp?) who was playing the match w/ the infamous "spaghetti strung racket", w/ which he generated so much topspin that the ball was egg shaped crossing the net. Smith won in straights, but I swear that every single game went to deuce. Ah, but I digress. And at the aforementioned WTC event.

**Amritraj, Vijay and Anand: yup and double yup. US Open, Forest Hills

Ashe, Rosewall, Court and Goolagong: uh, 4 nopes

Perry: Perry!?....Fred Perry!? The Fred Perry who is last male Brit to win Wimbledon!?.....Me witness that?... Nope. You'll have to ask King Van Nostrand. Or maybe my dad, knows. Dunno. I'll ask him tomorrow.

Edberg? yup. US Open, Flushing Meadows.

*** Rafter? yup. US Open, Flushing Meadows. And at every event I saw (heard) him play on TV.

Its also mentioned by Agassi (in the post-match press conference "transcript" provided above by Datacipher) that Kucera had been apologizing during that match after his bad tosses.

KK-Tell the truth, you threw Perry in there, to come back at me with, just in case I claimed to have heard everyone on your list apologize for an errant toss. Come clean now.

Point is, these are players that I developed an affinity for. I saw the old-timers listed above, in person, when I was an impressionable youth and the fact that they did it caught my attention. Especially at the library quiet Forest Hills, where most players appeared to me to be mute warriors. And where "sorry" or "shot" were the player's only words you would hear break that silence. This experience was amplified by the fact that the guy I sat through the matches with, a ranked senior then, pointed out at the time, that he would never do it. Dad is a great guy but he was a bit of a hook back then.

And it was contrasted by the behavior (also witnessed in person) of Connors, who was worse when first arriving to the WTC tour after dominating the USTA tour, than he was later in his career. And the anti-Christ of on-court behavior Nastase (with his dubs partner Ion Tiriac thrown in just to have a frightening Romanian version to stand next to I think).

Is it written down, codified or memorialized anywhere? No. (er nope). It isn't even written as a club rule, like "all whites" is at Forest Hills, or was the last time I played an ETA Masters grass-court event there a couple of years ago.

Its a chosen course of behavior that I elected to emulate. And later, which I encouraged in my young charges, male and female, while teaching them the game. I don't think anyone is unsportsman-like for not apologizing for bad toss nor for a net cord winner. I respect your CHOICE not to do it. And I don't go into matches expecting my opponent to act in kind. In match play, barring my opponent having a Kucera like vapor-lock, I'd probably never notice that he didn't. On the other hand, I would think that someone who did a Hewitt-like "C'mon" war-hoot after a net cord winner to be A REAL (insert nickname for Richard here) and would reprimand any student of mine for doing that.

Truthfully, I'm not questioning your sportsmanship, nor your character, nor your sense of responsibility in the guidance you provide to the members of the team you coach. I just appreciate a player who during the heat of battle can find it in themself to extend that extra level of what I believe to be sportsmanship. Label it being a "weanie" (I think you called it) if you choose. I'd prefer to call it sportsmanship, perhaps above and beyond the call.

__________________________________________________ _______________
* denotes personal childhood idol

** denotes player's who were also personally witnessed acknowledge an opponent's winner with "shot", "yep", "yes" or "yeah", (No "yup"s that I recall. I'll admit, however, that it was sometimes said in a frustrated, exasperated, discouraged or other-wise insincere tone.) Except for Vijay who often, while verbally acknowledging his opponent's effort, would stop and literally applaud that effort clapping his off hand against the strings of his racket. Even after losing a critical point in his match. To me......then......a perplexing thing of beauty.

*** Variation. Acknowledged toss errors w/ "Sorry mate" 63.27 percent of the time. (the percentage is also mentioned in jest).
__________________________________________________ _______________


KK- I sincerely hope you believe that I was just having a little fun in my prior posts and accept it in the spirit it was intended.

If not, imagine we're playing a match, I'm serving to you in the ad court and I..............................................jus t made an errant toss.
Kaptain Karl
02-25-2005, 09:43 AM
FiveO - From 1973 to 1984 I went to the US Open every year (four days -to- one week each) and I do not recall ever witnessing Riessen, Smith, Lutz, Laver, Rosewall, Newcomb, Roche, Court, Goolagong, King, Evert, Borg, Vilas, Ashe, Tanner ... [assume at least three times this long a list of name-drops] ... or Stolle (I got my "Freds" mixed up and mentioned Perry earlier. Sorry.) Give any indication of an apology for a caught toss. (Doesn't mean it didn't happen. Just that I don't recall witnessing it....)

I *do* recall seeing many of them apologize for net-cord winners. (Never King, though. I remember she was asked "Why not?" in a post match interview. That's when she stated her viewpoint. I immediately incorporated it into my own.)

(continued)

[I remember one Nastase match, on an outer court at F Hills. I think he was playing Kodes(?). Anyway, the umpire was really getting irritated with Nasty (Surprise!) and issued a warning. Nasty proceeded to toss and catch the ball about a dozen times in a row. Each time, doing a great mini-drama about the wind ... his error ... a nervous tick ... something in his eye ... thinking someone in the bleachers had moved too much ... being distracted by our laughter (which by that point was nearly non-stop) ... etc. Even though we fans were bugged that he wouldn't "get on with the match," we couldn't help but laugh until tears were coarsing down our faces. (That poor Umpire!) As usual, when he got too carried away with playing the Clown, Nasty became his own worst enemy in that match and lost in four. And the fourth set was sad; he hardly tried. I still believe Nasty was the most gifted player I've ever watched. Too bad he didn't seem able to "govern" himself...)]

I have not taken offense at your jibes ... and I pray you haven't been offended by mine. I like the way you express yourself in your posts. Very entertaining ... even when you are wrong. [Tee-hee!]

Regarding Leyton Hewitt: On another thread I posted that he "lost me" as a fan at this year's AO. I also believe Carillo was correct when she indicated the Aussies merely "tolerate" him ... because he doesn't measure up to the storied Aussie tradition of sportsmanship.

Regarding the WTC ... I'm delighted anyone remembers that organization; much less a particular tourney. I had their logo on *lots* of my tennis gear back then.

- KK
FiveO
02-25-2005, 11:17 AM
K,
Can I call you K? I'm not a pack-rat but a actually have all the US Open programs from 1971 to present. I'm glad to find someone familiar with pro tennis in those years. Fond memories. Here's one.

My dad and I finally went into the Forest Hills stadium to watch some matches. Despite my protests my dad usually wanted to watch matches on the field courts as opposed to the stadium or grandstand (my favorite). Don't tell him this, but in retrospect I think he was right and the field was an incedible vantage point, but I'll never admit it to him. Anyway, we saw a very young Borg lose to Nikki Pilic. Good match and we stayed for the beginning of the next. Then it was back to the fields. Walking under the stadium Dad and I were discussing the apparent height differential between Borg and Pilic. My dad said he thought Pilic was five something and I started to disagree saying "No way, he's six......" , from behind us I hear a voice say "two...six two" in an eastern European accent. We turn to see Mr. Pilic, standing there in street clothes, under that stadium, apparently very interested in what I had to say....and he just finished MY sentence. I then heard an unidentifiable and much higher pitched voice, (my sister wasn't with us) join our conversation saying "Nice match Mr. Pilic. Could you sign my program". He signed several programs which were suddenly thrust in front of him by much less interesting fans, interrupting our important discussion. He signed my program too and handed it back to me while tossling my hair. "Good luck" I heard that same unidentifiable high pitched voice say. Mr. Pilic responded "Thanks" and continued toward the clubhouse. When my newly post-pubescent, recognizable, and lower voice returned, I remember reminding my dad that I had been right, "he's six two" probably more times than good taste or father-son submissiveness would dictate. What I've never admitted to this day, to neither my dad nor Mr. Pilic, is that it was "one". I was going to say "six one".

Still got that program w/ my first pro player's authograph.


Vivid memories, Jeez. (no that wasn't a tear, I just had something in my eye)

Kodes (spelling's correct) remember his was considered the best return in the game pre-Connors?

Well........I guess its time to go slam people.
FiveO
02-25-2005, 11:35 AM
Why do I suddenly feel the need to inform the other posters on this board that I am a happily married HETEROSEXUAL, w/ 3 kids (biological I might add) and am a huge football fan...yeah, love football....How 'bout dem Cowboys?...yeah big, big football fan............


Five0 out.
FiveO
02-25-2005, 11:49 AM
.........NRA member too!
vBulletin® v3.6.9, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

wow at people practicing tossing in a match, that is ridiculous. That would drive me insane.

My little quirk would be I need to take a drink on every change over. Doesn't matter what the match is like, I'm taking a drink on my walk.

Congrats Tom. You figured out how to copy and paste today!

floridatennisdude said:

Congrats Tom. You figured out how to copy and paste today!

Click to expand...

If only he had learned to copy and paste the address bar...

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=24113

spot said:

If only he had learned to copy and paste the address bar...

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=24113

Click to expand...

Oh, I learned how to do that ages ago, I just like doing things the ol' fashioned way--BTW, how's your ball toss spot? I'd read this info quite carefully, I'm sure you'll gain from it.

floridatennisdude said:

Congrats Tom. You figured out how to copy and paste today!

Click to expand...

Thank you for being a moderator here, more folks should jump in and volunteer of their time for the benefit of the community--maybe you can keep Cindy and JC from strangling each other, kudos!

Like I said, my quirk is hi-jacking threads that have been hi-jacked, digging up old, long threads that may be relevant and informative as well as entertaining--that's just how my quirks roll.

Enjoy!

corbind said:

You just have to accept what you "rolled" and hit it. You cannot expect an opponent to keep split-stepping and adrenalin-rushing so many times.

Click to expand...

spot said:

Sure you can because thats what the rules say that the returner has to do.

Click to expand...

Of course the opponent also has the right to make sure he/she is ready again after each aborted service attempt... I have no problem with an opponent who catches an occassional toss, but if I were to face one that does this repeatedly, I would put my hand out to signal 'not ready' after each failed attempt, and take a few seconds to get focused again. Would make for a looooong service game I guess.

xxxx10characters

Kucera vs Agassi, from another thread
1998 US Open, Hard, R16
R16
Kucera won
6-3 6-3 6-7 1-6 6-3



Q. You felt last night that he was doing that on purpose, that he repeatedly was catching it to play with you?

ANDRE AGASSI: No, I didn't believe that at all, actually. But it doesn't mean that when you toss the ball and don't hit it 18 times, that it doesn't have an impact on me. So at some stage, you know, whether he meant it or not, it's not acceptable. But I don't believe he meant that, no. I think as he got nervous to close me out in the third set, the worst part of his game started getting worse.





Q. Did you appeal to Norm yesterday about the ball tosses?

ANDRE AGASSI: Yes. I was just inquiring with him if there's any rulings about how many times he can do that. I mean, Norm said that there's no rule on it. Then I just requested that the clock continue then. Because, I mean, you know, you get 25 seconds to get the ball in play. If he's tossing it and not hitting it, I mean, that's distracting.

Q. What did he say about that?

ANDRE AGASSI: Nothing. I mean, I then asked him if I did it every time, if that would be all right.

Q. Did he say "okay"?

ANDRE AGASSI: No. He just gave me that stupid look he gives.
(LOL)




Q. Do you somehow regret that you imitated him three times in a row then at 3-4?

ANDRE AGASSI: No. Why would I regret that?

Q. Well, is that the way it should be played?

ANDRE AGASSI: Listen, man, the guy is tossing it up and catching it, right? Is that the way it should be played?

Q. You yourself said that you didn't think he did it on purpose.

ANDRE AGASSI: Right, but there's still ramifications.

Q. I understand.

ANDRE AGASSI: What he does, whether it's on purpose or not, has a direct impact on me. I overlooked it the first eight times, and then I inquired with Norm. Then I let it go another five times. And then by the time we get 16, 17 times, I had a problem with it, yeah.

OrangePower said:

Of course the opponent also has the right to make sure he/she is ready again after each aborted service attempt... I have no problem with an opponent who catches an occassional toss, but if I were to face one that does this repeatedly, I would put my hand out to signal 'not ready' after each failed attempt, and take a few seconds to get focused again. Would make for a looooong service game I guess.

Click to expand...

That's right agree 100%. Each time you get ready to return, you split spit as the toss is coming down. Then the opponent catches the ball and says he's sorry, then does it again, several times in one game. After a while you don't split step, what's the point, then boom he hits the serve. You don't make proper contact or even get aced because no split step. The server doesn't know how to do a ball toss and I just have to deal with it. How is that fair?
Practice the ball toss just like you practice any other stroke. If you can't get it right you should double fault that's what I say.

TennisDawg said:

That's right agree 100%. Each time you get ready to return, you split spit as the toss is coming down. Then the opponent catches the ball and says he's sorry, then does it again, several times in one game. After a while you don't split step, what's the point, then boom he hits the serve. You don't make proper contact or even get aced because no split step. The server doesn't know how to do a ball toss and I just have to deal with it. How is that fair?
Practice the ball toss just like you practice any other stroke. If you can't get it right you should double fault that's what I say.

Click to expand...

Well spoken.

Just hit the damn ball......its not like anyone is Isner or someone where the odds are its an ace......we are probably talking about some cream puff serve that more than likely gets blasted for a winer.


Or just take a DF. Atleast you'll have your dignitity intact.

Practice....its not complicated

Cindysphinx said:

I think my quirk is that I am very precise about my toss. Sadly, my toss is not consistent. This can lead to my tossing the ball four times before I get one I like. I then hit it, and it is often an outstanding serve.

That has got to be annoying.

It used to be much worse -- I routinely had to toss 3, 4, 5 times. Now I can get it the first time most of the time. But when it is a big point, or I DF'd earlier, or it is a tiebreak, or I am hitting one of my least favorite serves . . . well, you're going to have to wait.

Click to expand...

thats gotta be the most ridiculous thing i have ever seen. practice that **** in your own time dood, dont waste my time during a match.

if u cant toss consistently u should go back to rec tennis with the kiddies

Eh I think this TeflonTom guy's internet posting 'quirk' of calling people "dood" is more annoying to me than the ball tossing would be.

lax man, is all good

TeflonTom said:

lax man, is all good

Click to expand...

You missed a golden rhyming opportunity.

lax dood, it's all good

has a nice ring to it. Almost signature material.

ur funny man, should be on snl