Nadards are confused. This is for the title of "Greatest player to ever grace tennis", not to destroy it.
When the top 3 retire, it'll be between Fed/Nole for GPTEGT status.
mate, I'm a big fan of Djokovic but he will not even be in contention for greatest player to grace the game. I'm not a nadal fan but Nadal will end with more slams and a bigger standing in the game. I wish Novak had actually started playing to his potential back in 2008 after winning the AO, but he left it too late.
You went on about Fed fans being delusional about him winning another slam, but is about as delusional as thinking Federer will win the calendar grand slam next year. :lol:
All this rubbish about nadal destroying the game. I don't like his style of tennis that much, but the point is to win.So if he ends up winning more than Djokovic or even Federer, then he's of a higher standing in the game. That's just a fact.
The GOAT argument will be between Fed, Laver and maybe Nadal as he has way more chance of challenging the greats in terms of records than Djokovic. And I love Djokovic, but saying he's gonna be up there in the top 2 of all time, is as blind as saying Federer is the in the top 2 clay court players or Nadal is in the top 2 grass court players. Djokovic had a 3 slam year beating 2 all time greats - Federer and nadal, and had it harder than they had in their 3 slam years, but overall he hasn't achieved as much and really needs to win the US Open to keep keep some sort of momentum from 2011.
+1. That Nadal lived under Federer's shadow for mutiple years should work in his favor, and not against him. No other era had two possible Tier I candidates playing alongside one another. That is the context that one should use, if you're keen on "analyzing" the numbers.
All this rubbish about nadal destroying the game. I don't like his style of tennis that much, but the point is to win.So if he ends up winning more than Djokovic or even Federer, then he's of a higher standing in the game. That's just a fact..
There's no love for McEnroe in this thread. Sure, on paper 7 slams seem like a small accomplishment vs the 17 of Federer (for example), but McEnroe played in a strong era. He single-handedly terminated Borg's career ferchrissake!
True. I think JMac has always been very goal oriented and after 1984 it's as if he didn't care enough. Still waiting for somebody to have a 82-3 season thou.Mac loses points IMO because after '84 he didn't win another slam.. Its as though he had his peak, then totally fell off the map
Where's McEnroe? And where is Gonzalez? Connors?
Well, that's funny. But I'm still irked at the lack of historical perspective around here.In the booth, grave, and champions tour.
No way Nadal is 5th. And no way Federer is 1st.
People have lost historical perspective.
Where's McEnroe? And where is Gonzalez? Connors?
Borg isn't "underrated here." Fact is, he's won the same amount of Slams as Nadal but on less surfaces, and could not bring the heat to his competitors as well as Nadal could. He is definitely top 5 GOAT, but he simply doesn't have the resume of Fed, Sampras, Laver, or Nadal.
Laughable about Bill Tilden being above Fed, btw. Same for Don Budge. The dudes were good but man, back then it was pretty much like playing a recreational match in the park and then you won a trophy. The competition just wasn't intense, the pressure to succeed from the media, sponsors, and fans wasn't nearly as high as in the late 70s and beyond.
Accomplished so much? If I go to the Special Olympics I'm sure I could rack up a few medals. It's all about the field. Federer is the luckiest tennis player ever in that regard.McEnroe and Connors haven't accomplished as much as Federer or Sampras, but you're right in "People have lost historical perspective.", Borg seems to be quite under-rated here.
What this guy said.Less surfaces, but...
-There were different surfaces actually back then...
-He DOMINATED two completely different surfaces (grass and clay)
-He only played 3 slams a year (AO was barely considered a slam back then, a lot of players didn't even play it)
There's no love for McEnroe in this thread. Sure, on paper 7 slams seem like a small accomplishment vs the 17 of Federer (for example), but McEnroe played in a strong era. He single-handedly terminated Borg's career ferchrissake!
No way Nadal is 5th. And no way Federer is 1st.
People have lost historical perspective.
Where's McEnroe? And where is Gonzalez? Connors?
That's fine, but I don't put much weight in what The Tennis Channel says. Making a list with players from wildly different eras seems futile anyway.From The Tennis Channel 100 Greatest Tennis player, Mac is ranked #8. That's a great honor be in the top 10.
1 Roger Federer
2 Rod Laver
3 Pete Sampras
4 Rafael Nadal
5 Bjorn Borg
6 Don Budge
7 Andre Agassi
8 John McEnroe
9 Jimmy Connors
10 Bill Tilden
My point is that you are not considering the environment when you make those lists.Yes he is.
I can't put Agassi on the top tier since he never had a really dominant (90+% win%) season. As for Lendl and Borg, maybe... I haven't seen many of their matches.
My point is that you are not considering the environment when you make those lists.
The field was far more competitive when the surfaces were more disparate. Fed's first 7 slam titles read like a "Who's Not" of Tennis history. Baghdatis? Roddick? Weak era.
The fact that RaNad/RoFed H2H outside clay is so balanced leaves no questions either. People marvel at the S/V abilities of Federer without a good reason to do so. Real S/V players died as a breed long time ago, as Tilden had predicted.
That's true. He had some high and lows in his career but the achievement I mentioned is quite impressive to put him at least in the second tier (maybe not in the first one).
Which was Agassi's winning % in 1995?? He went the whole summer unbeaten until the USO final that year (26-0).
Judging by strength of their game, rather than accomplishments:
1) Djokovic
2) Nadal
3) Federer
4) Sampras
5) Agassi
6) Laver
7) McEnroe
8) Borg
9) Connors
10) Lendl
Judging by strength of their game, rather than accomplishments:
1) Djokovic
2) Nadal
3) Federer
4) Sampras
5) Agassi
6) Laver
7) McEnroe
8) Borg
9) Connors
10) Lendl
What does "strength of their game" even mean? If Djokovic has such a strong game, why is he so inferior in accomplishments to Federer and Nadal? Are you saying that peak level is all that matters, or some root-mean-square and average of all strokes considered or something like that? 'cause Djokovic has a bad serve compared to Fed/Sampras and bad overhead and slice shots compared to almost any top player.
some of these lists have agassi but no lendl.
LOL.
cant be serious lists.
Laver behind Borg, Sampras, and Fed? LOL.1.) Federer
2.) Borg
3.) Sampras
4.) Laver
5.) Nadal
Laver behind Borg, Sampras, and Fed? LOL.
Laver behind Borg, Sampras, and Fed? LOL.
You can argue for Borg and Sampras, but not for Fed. After 2009 FO, Fed won his 14 + career slam is consider in the same top tier as Laver, but as of now, Fed have added so much more to his resume so it's no secret that he's ahead of Laver.
How about Laver would have won 30+ slams and multiple calendar year slam if pros were allowed to play at the slams during his time?
How about Laver would have won 30+ slams and multiple calendar year slam if pros were allowed to play at the slams during his time?
True. I think JMac has always been very goal oriented and after 1984 it's as if he didn't care enough. Still waiting for somebody to have a 82-3 season thou.
Borg isn't "underrated here." Fact is, he's won the same amount of Slams as Nadal but on less surfaces, and could not bring the heat to his competitors as well as Nadal could. He is definitely top 5 GOAT, but he simply doesn't have the resume of Fed, Sampras, Laver, or Nadal.
Laughable about Bill Tilden being above Fed, btw. Same for Don Budge. The dudes were good but man, back then it was pretty much like playing a recreational match in the park and then you won a trophy. The competition just wasn't intense, the pressure to succeed from the media, sponsors, and fans wasn't nearly as high as in the late 70s and beyond.