Needs an open poll. For the n-tieth time we have such a thread.
What an original thread. Bravo!!!
World Tour Final. It's a tournament exclusively for the best players of the year, and if you win it you have to beat the best.
And even if someone pulls out, they're replaced with another top player who just missed out of a top 8 ranking.
No lucky draws of the draw here.
I feel like the constant comparisons between the WTF and the OG are putting the OG on an unfair pedestal that it hasn't earned. They're both fantastic achievements, but the more pressure we put on it the more scorn it will attract as well.
If it's not even close, then explain these:Olympic Singles gold. And it's not even close.
It's incredible how important the Olympics has become to players now, especially since it was only introduced to the Open era in 1988. All the top players are desperate to win it these days. You get guys like Federer and Nadal planning their careers 4 or 5 years ahead to be able to be competititive at the next Olympics.
The WTF are simply not held in the same level of esteem, despite having a longer presence in the open era, under a variety of names. To many players, an Olympic Singles Gold is worth almost as much as a slam win. When Elena Dementieva won it, she felt it completed her career, despite never getting a slam. No one feels similarly about the end of season championships on either tour, and no one equates it near to a slam in terms of prestige of career accomplishments.
Let's put it this way....if you asked Federer if he could trade his 5 of his WTF titles for one Olympic Singles gold, chances are he'd take that trade.
If it's not even close, then explain these:
1. Why does the WTF potentially award its Champion with twice as many ATP points as the SOG? Haven't the tiers of Tennis events always been decided by ATP points?
2. Why does the WTF have more history and the more celebrated past-champions than the SOG?
3. Why is one of Federer's priorities each year to qualify for the WTF? Not win, just qualify. And Djokovic called it the "pinnacle" of the ATP Calendar when he won there last year.
That's hilarious, 5 WTF for one 750-point event? Wow wow wow, that really is some bias.
As a tennis achievement: WTF > SOG.
WTF includes the best 8 players of the year. SOG only has the best players from a number of countries. Not to mention a number of players skipped it for Washington instead. Only 14 out the top 20 played at the olympics.
The prestige of the Olympics is not reflected in the points on offer, because it's got a very strange place on the tennis calender, being held only once every 4 years. The players don't realy care how many points are on offer, and just want to win it. I do agree that the Olympics merits more points, but the ATP has always been slow to get things correct. I imagine it'll be worth more points by Rio.
WTF is valued for one thing: MONEY.
That's why so many top layers turned up, even when the WTF offered ZERO RANKING POINTS, between 1970 and 1990 (when it was won by the likes of Becker, Lendl, Conners, Borg, McEnroe etc). Why was this event attracting all the best players, when no ranking points were on offer? Hard, cold cash.
That tells you all you need to know about why top players value the WTF...cold, hard cash. They play the Olympics for free because it means so much more in terms of personal and national pride. Take away the prize money for the WTF, and you'd see a lot of top players skipping it for a longer off-season. No one plays the WTF out of love for the tourney, like the Olympics.
Olympics is not tennis exclusive event..this thread is joke, everyone knows the answer is wtf
So I guess 2 M1000's = a Major title
So let me understand your logic. The WTF has more money and more points on offer. So the Olympics is better. Got it
Well, there's the Career Super Slam.As a standalone achievement, I think winning the WTF is more valuable/prestigious.
- Player ABC has 0 slams and wins 1 WTF, thereby proving he can beat the top players and proving his consistency by making it to the top 8 at year end.
- Player ABC has 0 slams and wins 1 SOG. People write it off as a fluke.
As an addition to an accomplished career, I think the SOG is more valuable/prestigious because it happens every 4 years, and is probably more rare to achieve in one's career given that you don't have many chances to win it. Also, it rounds out one's resume.
- Player ABC has 10 slams and wins 1 WTF. Fans will not claim he has achieved the Career WTF slam?. He has already proven his consistency and can beat the top players by winning the 10 slams, the WTF is played every year and is not regarded as a slam-caliber tournament, so it doesn't add too much value to one's career.
- Player ABC has 10 slams and wins 1 SOG. Fans will claim he has achieved the career golden slam. The SOG is not regarded as slam-caliber, but occurs every 4 years, so it is rarer and harder to achieve than winning 1 WTF.
And what do we have, other than your opinion, to suggest players hold the Olympic Gold in higher esteem than the WTF? When last asked, Federer said his goals for the rest of his career were another Wimbledon, and another WTF (despite 6 previous wins there). No mention of the Olympic Singles Gold. I don't believe Federer plans 4 years ahead, or even a few months ahead, for the Olympics like you claim. But we've seen him prioritize and play more tournaments to qualify for the WTF. This despite 6 previous wins there.No, the WTF attracted top players for 2 decades without offering ranking points. The tournament has always been about the money. It's like Federer, Djokovic or Nadal regularly turning up to Abu Dhabi....the money on offer is too good, but that doesn't mean they value the title as much as they do a slam or the olympics.
Nothing wrong with wanting to make big money. All the top players do. But people have to distinguish between the tournaments players truly hold in the highest esteem and those that are mainly paydays.
Well, there's the Career Super Slam.
Oh, here come the "fanboy" accusations from the people who can't debate. Let's examine the facts.Everyone knows Graf has the Career Golden Slam. Everyone knows Agassi has the Career Golden Slam. Everyone knows Serena has the Career Golden Slam. And everyone knows Nadal has the Career Golden Slam.
The term "Career Golden Slam" alone should tell you which has far more value and prestige out of OSG and WTF. It basically puts OSG right next to the slams in terms of the ultimate achievment for a singles career. And it's an instantly recognisable term in the tennis community.
People know this to be the case, but seem to be in denial for some reason. As has been said, there is no Career WTF Slam, as outside of the rabid Federer fanbase, it doesn't hold that type of prestige that comes with winning OSG.
Andre Agassi has won both the WTF and OSG.....Agassi never talks about WTF as being one of his greatest accomplishments. He barely ever mentions it. He talks about his slams and winning Olympic singles gold a lot though. Says it all really. Only in Federer fan land does WTF have as much career prestige as an OSG.
Oh, here come the "fanboy" accusations from the people who can't debate. Let's examine the facts.
1. History: WTF > Olympics
2. Points: WTF > Olympics
3. Money: WTF > Olympics
And yet, Olympics > WTF. If anybody is in lala land, it's you. Give me facts, not your bias-dipped, nonsensical opinions. Or just say, "for me it's better, I don't have facts," and I'll respect that.
FACT: Andre Agassi is the one player to have won both WTF and OSG. So he's in a unique position to say which is worth more, without looking like a sore loser for lacking one or the other.
FACT: Agassi apparently treasures his Olympic Gold Medal as much of his slams. He talks about it regularly.
FACT: Agassi barely seems to remember that he even won the WTF.
FACT: Last year, both Agassi and his wife Steffi Graf did a CNN special devoted soley to their Olympic singles wins. You think anybody is going to devote a CNN segment to winning the WTF?LOL!
FACT:Graf also said winning Olympic Gold was bigger than a grand slam and more special. Graf won the WTA championships 5 times, yet they mean nothing to her compared to her singles gold medal.
Still in denial about how much OSG means to players, compared to the glorified end of season exho?
World Tour Final. It's a tournament exclusively for the best players of the year, and if you win it you have to beat the best.
And even if someone pulls out, they're replaced with another top player who just missed out of a top 8 ranking.
The reason there are so more points for the WTF than the Olympics is to force the top players to participate otherwise they'll all pull out claiming injury.
FACT: Andre Agassi is the one player to have won both WTF and OSG. So he's in a unique position to say which is worth more, without looking like a sore loser for lacking one or the other.
FACT: Agassi apparently treasures his Olympic Gold Medal as much of his slams. He talks about it regularly.
FACT: Agassi barely seems to remember that he even won the WTF.
FACT: Last year, both Agassi and his wife Steffi Graf did a CNN special devoted soley to their Olympic singles wins. You think anybody is going to devote a CNN segment to winning the WTF?LOL!
FACT:Graf also said winning Olympic Gold was bigger than a grand slam and more special. Graf won the WTA championships 5 times, yet they mean nothing to her compared to her singles gold medal.
Still in denial about how much OSG means to players, compared to the glorified end of season exho?
Well played, good sir :lol:Cool man, good to know that no matter what Nadal accomplishes from here on out he won't be able to match Federer's career ever since
Wimbledon > any other slam.
I mean I would have said RG = Wimbledon = US Open = AO, but you have really enlightened me since you have brought everyone's attention to super objective measures such as
1. Prestige of tournament
2. How much players treasured their wins of said tournaments
Wimbledon has more prestige than any other tournament, that's pretty much beyond question. Federer and Murray obviously treasure it the most, Djokovic has also said he treasures his Wimbledon trophy the most (and is infact what he took over to his first coaches house after he won it). Nadal said that he cried after losing 2007 Wimbledon because he thought he might never win it, again showing how damn much Wimbledon means to everybody.
Here I was worried as a Fed fan, thinking Nadal had a legitimate shot at surpassing Fed as a player but now you have single-handedly relieved the concerns of all Federer fans. Because let's be honest Nadal ain't winning 7 Wimbledons. Thus he shall forever remain in second place. Infact I think you should start getting a bit worried about Murray, there is a good chance he ends up with more than 2 Wimbledons and ofcourse according to your infallible logic surpasses Rafa. Yikes.
Cool man, good to know that no matter what Nadal accomplishes from here on out he won't be able to match Federer's career ever since
Wimbledon > any other slam.
I mean I would have said RG = Wimbledon = US Open = AO, but you have really enlightened me since you have brought everyone's attention to super objective measures such as
1. Prestige of tournament
2. How much players treasured their wins of said tournaments
Wimbledon has more prestige than any other tournament, that's pretty much beyond question. Federer and Murray obviously treasure it the most, Djokovic has also said he treasures his Wimbledon trophy the most (and is infact what he took over to his first coaches house after he won it). Nadal said that he cried after losing 2007 Wimbledon because he thought he might never win it, again showing how damn much Wimbledon means to everybody.
Here I was worried as a Fed fan, thinking Nadal had a legitimate shot at surpassing Fed as a player but now you have single-handedly relieved the concerns of all Federer fans. Because let's be honest Nadal ain't winning 7 Wimbledons. Thus he shall forever remain in second place. Infact I think you should start getting a bit worried about Murray, there is a good chance he ends up with more than 2 Wimbledons and ofcourse according to your infallible logic surpasses Rafa. Yikes.
So I guess 2 M1000's = a Major title
As a standalone achievement, I think winning the WTF is more valuable/prestigious.
- Player ABC has 0 slams and wins 1 WTF, thereby proving he can beat the top players and proving his consistency by making it to the top 8 at year end.
- Player ABC has 0 slams and wins 1 SOG. People write it off as a fluke.
As an addition to an accomplished career, I think the SOG is more valuable/prestigious because it happens every 4 years, and is probably more rare to achieve in one's career given that you don't have many chances to win it. Also, it rounds out one's resume.
- Player ABC has 10 slams and wins 1 WTF. Fans will not claim he has achieved the Career WTF slam?. He has already proven his consistency and can beat the top players by winning the 10 slams, the WTF is played every year and is not regarded as a slam-caliber tournament, so it doesn't add too much value to one's career.
- Player ABC has 10 slams and wins 1 SOG. Fans will claim he has achieved the career golden slam. The SOG is not regarded as slam-caliber, but occurs every 4 years, so it is rarer and harder to achieve than winning 1 WTF.
nadal_slam_king said:“I never said the Gold Medal was more valuable than 6 WTFs. I said the Gold Medal is valuable now because Nadal has it. If Nadal didn't have it, it wouldn't be such a big deal.”
I see them as pretty much equal. The OG does have a weaker field but you can lose twice and still win the WTF.
As a tennis achievement, there is no doubt the WTF is far more impressive. But in a general public sense, in front of a public who doesn't know tennis, Olympics is more impressive, because the general public relates to Gold Medals won for ones country.
"Looking like"
"Apparently"
"seems to"
Those don't sound like facts to me :lol: Here are some actual facts.
1. Agassi never said SOG>WTF
2. Agassi is one of 1000s of ATP pros of just the last couple of decades. His opinion should be taken as such, presuming he does favor his SOG over his WTF. If every pro felt the same way you think he does, the Olympics would be worth a lot more points.
3. Graf is a woman, from the WTA. This is the ATP tour we're talking about.
4. In terms of the WTF, Sampras>Agassi. In terms of Gold, Agassi>Sampras. (To be noted that Sampras didn't give two hoots about the all-prestigious, all-coveted Olympics. Ruling out bias from Agassi is ridiculous.)
You seem desperate. This here is my opinion, not a fact :lol:
Why are you people discussing the obvious with Nadal's trolls.
1500 > 750 [/THREAD]
No. but he does say it's greater than winning any slam. Unless you believe Andre thinks the WTF is also greater than any slam I think it's safe to infer that Andre rates OG > WTF.
It doesn't mean he's right - it's just his opinion.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ol...is-gold-matters-more-than-any-Grand-Slam.html
This has never happened in the entire 43 year history.
No. but he does say it's greater than winning any slam. Unless you believe Andre thinks the WTF is also greater than any slam I think it's safe to infer that Andre rates OG > WTF.
It doesn't mean he's right - it's just his opinion.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ol...is-gold-matters-more-than-any-Grand-Slam.html
If you consider the length of a players career, they will only get one to three chances to even play the Olympics compared to the annual World Tour Finals (6-7 chances)
Hence, the Tennis Singles Olympic Gold is the most prestigious.
/Thread