That's fine. You and I know the difference. But to the average person looking at the forum, especially newcomers, they might get the false impression that zx plays like natural gut when they're nothing like each other. I know Ashaway (and other companies) try to compare their synthetic products to natural gut and that's very misleading to people who don't understand the difference. That's why these companies use the term "gut" in their marketing.
Ashaway 100% Zyex monofilament
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That's fine. You and I know the difference. But to the average person looking at the forum, especially newcomers, they might get the false impression that zx plays like natural gut when they're nothing like each other. I know Ashaway (and other companies) try to compare their synthetic products to natural gut and that's very misleading to people who don't understand the difference. That's why these companies use the term "gut" in their marketing.
I don't know how this is relevant to the topic. But since you brought it up, what does he use?
I do know that some pros don't actually use what they endorse or what the company advertises that they use. Paint can do wonderful things. It's common knowledge that Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic have all done this. I don't recall making any claims that I know what Murray uses. You probably know better since you stay up late at night reading all my posts.
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mikeler
Moderator
Everyone has a "gut" string. This ZX has the power level of gut but definitely not the feel.
mikeler
Moderator
Both Dynamite and ZX have coil memory but it does not make the string hard to work with.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Especially with a two-piece job, eh?
mikeler
Moderator
Exactamundo
I gave up trying to string the Kippermate version of this because of the constant stretching and having to pull the tension again, the damn clamps slipped 3 times..after that, I just threw it out.
I have no issues with clamps slipping with any other string.
If the ashway is the same material, I'll pass on it. Not worth the frustration.
I have no issues with clamps slipping with any other string.
If the ashway is the same material, I'll pass on it. Not worth the frustration.
Played a match today with my normal sticks and played terribly partly due to the poly being pretty dead and not having had time to restring it. Sprayed a lot of balls that I would have normally put away or been pressuring balls.
Not something I would normally do but I pulled out the Donnay P1 NG/ZX setup and suddenly the difference was like night and day. Power, spin, court length, and felt like I could hit out again with confidence and take control of rallies compared to the dead poly setup.
Still lost the match on a 2nd set tie break but having been 0-3 down in the 2nd set when I swapped racquets, it was impressive how vastly better that 6 week old NG/ZX setup performed compared to the 3 week old dead poly.
It never ceases to amaze me how well poly plays when fresh and how badly it plays when dead.
Not something I would normally do but I pulled out the Donnay P1 NG/ZX setup and suddenly the difference was like night and day. Power, spin, court length, and felt like I could hit out again with confidence and take control of rallies compared to the dead poly setup.
Still lost the match on a 2nd set tie break but having been 0-3 down in the 2nd set when I swapped racquets, it was impressive how vastly better that 6 week old NG/ZX setup performed compared to the 3 week old dead poly.
It never ceases to amaze me how well poly plays when fresh and how badly it plays when dead.
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purple-n-gold
Hall of Fame
Prestretched some Dynamite yesterday and threw it in as a cross,,man did it stretch. Very easy to string up btw.
mikeler
Moderator
My next experiment is a prestretched full job with normally machine pulls versus slow pulls.
mrmike
Semi-Pro
I had the exact same problem when I tried to string up a set of ZX. I have strung my racquets for many years on that stringer and have never ever seen a string elongate that much under tension. I had to reset the string in the tension cam 3x for every pull. My problem was different from yours in that I snapped the string 2 times and had to finally scrap the entire set.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
To all Monogut ZX users:
I have found that pre-stretching this string solves all of the stringing issues.
Once pre-stretched (and by pre-stretched, I mean pulling a 20-ft segment by leaning with my all my body weight on one end until the relaxed length is about 21.5-ft, or ~18" longer), the string becomes easy to string. Once you have extended the relaxed length 7-8% beyond the starting length, the properties are much improved. Don't stop pre-stretching until you reach the 7-8% mark. It's like the polymer chains start out folded and crumpled, and they just need to be straightened out and aligned.
After pre-stretching, it will not creep at all during stringing - I mean zero noticeable plastic creep. Less than kevlar even. It is totally elastic. Stringing it is easier than stringing any other type of string.
Also, the string becomes much stronger and less fragile. I no longer ahve any issues with breaking at knots. I can pull as hard as I want with the drop-weight against the frame on my knots. This string is actually stronger than most strings. Once you pre-stretch it, it can take 100-lbs tension no problem - the 60-lb limit really only applies if it's not pre-stretched.
Also, this string holds tension better than any other string once it's pre-stretched like above. Even better than gut. I think the string would sell better if factory pre-stretched in this way.
I have found that pre-stretching this string solves all of the stringing issues.
Once pre-stretched (and by pre-stretched, I mean pulling a 20-ft segment by leaning with my all my body weight on one end until the relaxed length is about 21.5-ft, or ~18" longer), the string becomes easy to string. Once you have extended the relaxed length 7-8% beyond the starting length, the properties are much improved. Don't stop pre-stretching until you reach the 7-8% mark. It's like the polymer chains start out folded and crumpled, and they just need to be straightened out and aligned.
After pre-stretching, it will not creep at all during stringing - I mean zero noticeable plastic creep. Less than kevlar even. It is totally elastic. Stringing it is easier than stringing any other type of string.
Also, the string becomes much stronger and less fragile. I no longer ahve any issues with breaking at knots. I can pull as hard as I want with the drop-weight against the frame on my knots. This string is actually stronger than most strings. Once you pre-stretch it, it can take 100-lbs tension no problem - the 60-lb limit really only applies if it's not pre-stretched.
Also, this string holds tension better than any other string once it's pre-stretched like above. Even better than gut. I think the string would sell better if factory pre-stretched in this way.
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tlm
G.O.A.T.
Are you saying if i pre-stretch it correctly I won't have to ratchet the stringing machine 5 times and wait a few seconds longer and ratchet it some more until it finally holds level?
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
Yes. That's what I'm saying. If you pull out all of the slack up front, there is no reason to wait - the drop-weight will not drop at all, and you can string much faster. This business of waiting 15 seconds for each drop to settle is not needed (and only partly effective) - just pre-stretch 7-8% and avoid the hassle. This string is actually the easiest type of string to pre-stretch too - it's pretty obvious when you're done, as it will stop growing! It takes me about 5 minutes of pulling to get there.
Once I'm done, the 20-ft segment string has grown about 18" in relaxed length, but it only stretches less than 1 ft elastically - in other words, the plastic elongation is about double the elastic elongation if you don't pre-stretch it (a terrible ratio). But once you do pre-stretch it, it becomes 100% elastic, which is what you want in a string.
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tlm
G.O.A.T.
Okay that is good news because bit takes forever to string up the main with this string. I did pre-stretch the last set but I must not have done it very well because there was hardly any difference. Does this also give the string some more stiffness and control?
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
Here is a good primer for how to pre-stretch from my ESP thread:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=7605187&postcount=94
newyorkstadium
Professional
What about pre-stretched gut? Surely that is the ultimate in tension maintenance. Looking at the TWU figures, pre-stretched gut loses 1-2lbs. Although, I would imagine pre-stretched gut breaks easily. since pre-stretching makes a string more susceptible to breakage.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
I have not tried pre-stretching gut in this way, so I can't compare. I suspect it would behave similarly.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
The reason I do it is not for stringing ease - the reason I do it is because the stringbed holds tension much, much, much, much better.
S&V Specialist
Rookie
Decided to test your hypothesis that you could string this super, super tight after pre-stretching and it would not break. I strung up some piece of junk aluminum racquet tonight at 80lbs and the 16g zyex held up just fine, even through ten minutes of hard hitting (only ten because I was not going to play my match with it). Interesting how the stringing properties of the string change so dramatically just from pre-stretching.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Okay travlerajm I just got done stringing a zx main and I pre-stretched it. But it still takes 3-4 cranks to get arm to level out then it will still fall some after a few seconds. I think I need to tie it to the bumper of my car and a tree and pull it about 20 yards to get the stretch out of it.
I know you showed me your link on stretching but it does not seem clear on the length of time that is needed. I tied 1 end down to a bench vise that cannot move and put the other end through a wood handle that I drilled a hole through. I then leaned and kept a lot of pressure on the string for at least a minute or 2 and then did it again.
It actually gets tiring holding that much tension on the string, I think I need to rig up a lever so I can use leverage to make it easier. I was only stretching 20' a half set, I can't believe that it is this hard to get it stretched to the level you mention.
The string did stay straighter after I was done and was easier to handle and string with, but it still stretched what seems like forever when stringing. It was no different than if I had not stretched it.
By letting the string sit with the stringer arm pulling it continuously and waiting and then ratcheting the arm up again and waiting for the stretch to stop doing the same thing as your pre-stretch method?
I am not saying I don't believe you, but you must be putting a lot of pressure for a long time to get this string to not stretch when stringing. Also for what ashaway is charging this string should come pre- stretched.
I know you showed me your link on stretching but it does not seem clear on the length of time that is needed. I tied 1 end down to a bench vise that cannot move and put the other end through a wood handle that I drilled a hole through. I then leaned and kept a lot of pressure on the string for at least a minute or 2 and then did it again.
It actually gets tiring holding that much tension on the string, I think I need to rig up a lever so I can use leverage to make it easier. I was only stretching 20' a half set, I can't believe that it is this hard to get it stretched to the level you mention.
The string did stay straighter after I was done and was easier to handle and string with, but it still stretched what seems like forever when stringing. It was no different than if I had not stretched it.
By letting the string sit with the stringer arm pulling it continuously and waiting and then ratcheting the arm up again and waiting for the stretch to stop doing the same thing as your pre-stretch method?
I am not saying I don't believe you, but you must be putting a lot of pressure for a long time to get this string to not stretch when stringing. Also for what ashaway is charging this string should come pre- stretched.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
When I stretch a 20' segment of ZX 16, I don't stop until I see that the relaxed length is no longer growing. Pulling on it by leaning with most of my weight (I weight ~160 lbs), I estimate that I am applying about 80 lbs of force (based on 30-deg lean angle). With this amount of force, the string stops growing when the string has grown by about 18". That is, a 20-ft segment is now 21.5ft relaxed.
I think it is very useful, before you start to pull tension, to mark the point on the ground where your handle can reach with the string pulled straight but not under tension. This is your starting point. Then every time you pull and relax, you can place the handle down and see how far the string has moved compared to your mark. The string will grow with each pull. Eventually, you will reach a point where you stop noticing any growth, even with patient and strong pulls. For the final few pulls, I sometimes bounce my weight a little (which probably momentarily increases the peak force to around 100 lbs) - the string can take it. It probably takes me 5-10 minutes to do it, with a series of pulls and rests. I try to let my weight to do the pulling and not my muscles, so that it's not tiring, and actually kind of fun and relaxing, like yoga.
As a reference comparison, I used this technique on Prince Tournament Poly 16 yesterday. A 20-ft segment of poly only grew by 6" (compared to 18" for the ZX). Applying the procedure to a 20-ft segment of 15L Prince Tournament Nylon resulted in only 3" of growth. Kevlar 18g was 2-3". I tried to do it with 20g steel wire, but it snapped at the knot. 16g steel wire cable kept snappping at the knot too.
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tlm
G.O.A.T.
Okay thanks I will try this next time, because I like this string but sure would like to take some of the springyness out of it.
Chotobaka
Hall of Fame
I pulled ZX at low speed on my stringer and also waited for a 10-count afterwards. Holding it after reaching initial tension does as much to elongate the string for tension-holding purposes as the slow pull does based on my observations. Not my favorite string on my Pro No 1's, but glutton for punishment that I am, I will try the 17g Pro on my X-Feel Pro 90 Vacuum.
I'll probably give the manual pre-stretch a try, but I'm not noticing any tension loss by slow pulling on the machine.
My biggest problem is that I find the string lacks the spin of a true poly - after just a couple of hours, they stop snapping back, and there is definitely a good bit more friction. FWIW, I'm using ZX in the crosses with Wilson Natural in the mains. I still need to test it in a ZX/Poly, Poly/ZX hybrid, and as a full string bed.
Overall, I'm very impressed with this string. I can see recommending it to a lot of players with arm problems, either as a full setup, or in a hybrid for those who are already using full natural gut.
My biggest problem is that I find the string lacks the spin of a true poly - after just a couple of hours, they stop snapping back, and there is definitely a good bit more friction. FWIW, I'm using ZX in the crosses with Wilson Natural in the mains. I still need to test it in a ZX/Poly, Poly/ZX hybrid, and as a full string bed.
Overall, I'm very impressed with this string. I can see recommending it to a lot of players with arm problems, either as a full setup, or in a hybrid for those who are already using full natural gut.
I am enjoying this string a lot more spin and power than any multi that I played with. Compared to PPA strung 53lb, ZX 55lbs has heap more power and spin. Only logged 2 hours of hitting so long term result is pending.
It has a unique feel and sound, even pulling the string back with your finger you can hear a unique squeak.
It has a unique feel and sound, even pulling the string back with your finger you can hear a unique squeak.
Been trying this string for a month or more.
Strung the natural (wheat) 16 in my Angell 95 (16x19) at 53 lbs. Previously used a variety of multis at similar tension and a hybrid gut/multi at 50/52. For the competition last week I had the Red 16 put in my other Angell 95 at 54lbs.
Both feel very good to me. No arm pain - which is my I don't use the poly mix for extended periods. Power is similar to the multi's (DNA & PPA). I get similar spin to the poly hybrid I was using.
The month old string - 20 plus hours is still playing fine. I think the 54 Red is slightly better for me - touch more control, little less "ping" on the sound etc., although it could be the psychological effect of the Red colour looking cooler in the frame - not that I'm swayed by mere looks :-?
Strung the natural (wheat) 16 in my Angell 95 (16x19) at 53 lbs. Previously used a variety of multis at similar tension and a hybrid gut/multi at 50/52. For the competition last week I had the Red 16 put in my other Angell 95 at 54lbs.
Both feel very good to me. No arm pain - which is my I don't use the poly mix for extended periods. Power is similar to the multi's (DNA & PPA). I get similar spin to the poly hybrid I was using.
The month old string - 20 plus hours is still playing fine. I think the 54 Red is slightly better for me - touch more control, little less "ping" on the sound etc., although it could be the psychological effect of the Red colour looking cooler in the frame - not that I'm swayed by mere looks :-?
This is weird. Check out the video below...NG/ZX after two months. NG springs back but the ZX crosses seems like they've lost all their elasticity and don't slide back. The odd thing is the string bed doesn't feel loose when hitting, the NG doesn't trampoline and the strings remain straight during play. But the ZX actually feels a bit dead to me and doesn't feel like its contributing anything to the stringbed when hitting (other than holding the NG in place).
https://vimeo.com/71136952
https://vimeo.com/71136952
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Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Sounds like my homemade Champion's Choice after 2 mos. Still has great spin and pop.
I've used the full bed red ZX at 52 CP for over 10 hours now, and there are minimal signs of wear. Total tension loss at this point is 14.1%. It seems like it might be getting more powerful; either that or my forehand just sucks. I wouldn't rule out either one.
I did not pre-stretch it. I have a drop weight machine, and I pulled at least 15 seconds on the mains and 30 on the crosses. I did not clamp any string until I thought all the stretch was gone. Having seen how much this string elongates, it makes sense to me that a pre-stretch could be beneficial. Once this string loses its initial tension it's stable. The tension loss I experienced without a pre-stretch is comparable to a typical multi.
I did not pre-stretch it. I have a drop weight machine, and I pulled at least 15 seconds on the mains and 30 on the crosses. I did not clamp any string until I thought all the stretch was gone. Having seen how much this string elongates, it makes sense to me that a pre-stretch could be beneficial. Once this string loses its initial tension it's stable. The tension loss I experienced without a pre-stretch is comparable to a typical multi.
I did this initially, waiting for at least 20 seconds before clamping.
I then did it another way basically by increasing reference tension (RT) on the initial pull and setting it back to my normal rt and pulling it again.
- I set RT to 60lbs, pulled, wait 30 seconds, clamped.
- I then re-set RT to 50 lbs, unclamped, re-pulled, and clamped again.
- Do next string.
This is tedious work but I want to experiment if this kind of pre-stretching works.
Results
I did not feel any increased stiffness. I think tension loss was improved because if I manually move the mains sideways it is still as tight as before and still snapping back as before (after 40 hours of use). Maybe it is all in my mind.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
I am having the power issue also I think the ZX is to springy even at high tensions with prestretching. I love the feel really comfy but to much trampoline action for me, even with using a poly or a kevlar x's.
Back to my kevlar main with blue gear x's a great string set up which I should have stayed with instead of wasting my time and money on the ZX.
I was thinking of doing the same thing with my Alpha Pioneer DC but at a higher tension. That's similar to the way electronic machines do it, but of course, it's more of a pain. Do you have anything to measure tension loss?
I agree. Poly is better. I switched racquets with my friend's Six-One 95 with full Red Code, and almost immediately I was hitting with more confidence than I do with my own racquet. It didn't even feel stiff, but I know that poly doesn't have to feel uncomfortable for my arm to notice it later. It was a great few minutes, though.
Unfortunately, my arm isn't made to withstand poly or kevlar for a prolonged time. That's probably the best reason for anyone to try this string.
That's pretty much what I'm thinking. Anyone who simply cannot use poly, but still wants a poly-like string, this is the best thing.
I've tried the ZX twice so far, as a substitute for poly in a gut/poly hybrid. I just don't find I get the spin that I get with poly. I do have some 17 gauge left (I only tried the 16 so far), so I will try that soon.
nikkhasnis
Rookie
Broke 3 packs while stringing. Any idea. Started with 60lbs, dropped to 55lbs, same result. Last one broke after finishing mains and on the first cross.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
I use a drop weight machine, the tension I tried was between 63-66 lbs. on a wilson six one 95 team. As a cross with kevlar main it does play pretty good but I was trying to use it as a main and it was not to bad just a little to much power for me. Of course I am used to a kevlar main with poly cross, which is about as low powered as it gets.
That surprises me, tlm. 63-66lbs for the 16 on a CP machine is very high. I've got one of those 6.1 Teams albeit the 18x20 version, and I'm in the low/mid 50s with polys or poly hybrids. In the 6.1 heavy version, I was 54lbs CP with ZX16 and that felt pretty good. 56lbs CP in my Juice Pro and I didn't notice it trampoling at all. If anything, it felt very slightly boardy (though not uncomfortable).
fgs
Hall of Fame
as tlm already stated, coming from kevlar/poly i assume most strings will be "trampolinig". i played last summer a 1.10 kevlar mains 1,25 syngut crosses hybrid and although i strung it at 21kg mains / 20kg crosses it felt incredibly stiff. any poly at 21kg, even fullbed, could be described as "trampolinig" compared to kevlar.
S&V Specialist
Rookie
Strung up my favorite woodie of all time (Bancroft Bjorn Borg Personal) today with a full bed of 16g Wheat. Everything was bliss from every part of the court and I was able to hit with much more spin than I could with a full bed of gut and still had the impeccable woodie feel. I think I found my new setup for my upcoming woodie events.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
When I was demoing 18x20 rackets I was surprised of how much lower I could string them at. I found that I could not even compare tensions between 18x20-16x19 it is easily 10 lbs. less with the 18x20.
I like a very low powered restricted flight set up, this way I can take big cuts and get away with not having to be right on the money. In other words it helps make up for lack of ability.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
I share your taste in stringbeds.
I much prefer kevlar mains, and have used primarily poly crosses for the last 7 years.
But this year I switched to Monogut ZX crosses. The ZX cross plays similar to poly cross once you up the tension enough to get the same stringbed stiffness, but the ZX cross has several advantages:
1) At high impact speeds (like when you need to turn on a hard incoming approach shot and rip back a hard topspin passing shot), the ZX seems to stretch more laterally and give you more pace and spin. I also notice this on serves, when the ZX cross gives me a little extra pop and spin action.
At low impact speeds, there's not much difference between ZX cross and poly cross. I really like this boost in "dynamic range" of the ZX cross.
2) Once prestretched, the ZX really hold tension much better than any poly.
I did notice that the kevlar/ZX hybrids are a bit tension sensitive since the ZZ is not quite as slick as most poly. On my BLX Blade 98 (with outer mains omitted), I found 56 lbs gave me a tight enough stringbed. But at this high a tension, it took 4-5h of hitting before the stringbed "unlocked" and transformed into a low-friction, spin-friendly setup. And if I string too low, then it gets too trampoliney.
To overcome this issue, I found using a high tension differential, with kevlar mains much tighter than ZX crosses, eliminates any issues with sticky strings. The tension differential gives the mains more freedom to move laterally.
There is a separate thread on this type of "ESP"setup. I started a separated thread on it. The huge advantage of the ESP setup is that the launch angle varies very little whether you are attempting a flat shot or a heavy spin shot. This gives you a lot more control and confidence on all of your shots. Heavy spin shots are just as spinny as a low-tension kevlar/poly hybrid, and flat shots are just as precise and crisp as a high tension kevlar/poly hybrid. The ESP (15 lbs tension differential or more) works best with kevlar/ZX hybrids, but it also works almost as well with kevlar/poly. I've gone as much differential as 80/35 with kevlar/poly - since the kevlar doesn't elongate much, this doesn't distort the frame much at all.
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nikkhasnis
Rookie
Haven't pre-stretched strings before. What are some techniques? Any tips?
tlm
G.O.A.T.
I agree with your points about the Zx string I was getting more on the serve and good spin. Actually I was trying to make it work as main with poly or kevlar cross, because of the strong points you make for this string.
And it was not to bad just not quite the control on those days when i was of a little. I think plenty of other players will really like this set up. I have a couple of sets left and I will give it a few more tries as a cross with kevlar mains. I only tried that set up once and it wasn't bad, but the rest was with ZX mains which I liked but just a little to much power for me.
