kiki
Banned
IMO the rivalry was as much interesting as anybody else
Those turndowns added to excitment and interest and you would say it was a matter of who got into the other' s mind
Johnny Mac - The Definitive GOAT
- Thread starter OTMPut
- Start date
IMO the rivalry was as much interesting as anybody else
Those turndowns added to excitment and interest and you would say it was a matter of who got into the other' s mind
Rozroz
G.O.A.T.
in Mac and Lendl's case, as they were the 2 most accomplished mind games specialists, it's no wonder they had their special outcomes.
as Gilbert tells in his book, they knew how to control the match, delaying the pace to their advantage, etc.
imagine them both doing it to one another
as Gilbert tells in his book, they knew how to control the match, delaying the pace to their advantage, etc.
imagine them both doing it to one another
in Mac and Lendl's case, as they were the 2 most accomplished mind games specialists, it's no wonder they had their special outcomes.
as Gilbert tells in his book, they knew how to control the match, delaying the pace to their advantage, etc.
imagine them both doing it to one another
watched it many times. my two faves, yin and yang so to speak.
it's NOT the same now.
The fact that the two players despised each other made their rivalry all the more special. There wasn't anywhere near as much mutual hatred between Connors and Lendl (Connors said himself that he didn't really hate Lendl at all).
Mac really was Lendl's punchbag in 1981-1982 and he could only win 1 set in those 7 matches, so the way he turned things around to win 10 out of their next 12 matches, with numerous crushing wins, was very impressive.
I'd love to know what their head to head was in their unsanctioned matches, as they played each other quite a lot in all those big money invitationals at Antwerp, Tokyo, Toronto, Milan etc.
Mac really was Lendl's punchbag in 1981-1982 and he could only win 1 set in those 7 matches, so the way he turned things around to win 10 out of their next 12 matches, with numerous crushing wins, was very impressive.
I'd love to know what their head to head was in their unsanctioned matches, as they played each other quite a lot in all those big money invitationals at Antwerp, Tokyo, Toronto, Milan etc.
kiki
Banned
The fact that the two players despised each other made their rivalry all the more special. There wasn't anywhere near as much mutual hatred between Connors and Lendl (Connors said himself that he didn't really hate Lendl at all).
Mac really was Lendl's punchbag in 1981-1982 and he could only win 1 set in those 7 matches, so the way he turned things around to win 10 out of their next 12 matches, with numerous crushing wins, was very impressive.
I'd love to know what their head to head was in their unsanctioned matches, as they played each other quite a lot in all those big money invitationals at Antwerp, Tokyo, Toronto, Milan etc.[/Q
Off my hat and maybe wrong
Golden Series it is clear Lendl
Milan is Lendl
Chicago is clear Mac
Barcelona is tied
Antwerp is clear Ivan
Moolson is evened
Will think bit more0
Nice work. I think Lendl beat Mac in a couple of Tokyo Suntory Cup finals (in 1984 and 1985), but Mac owned Lendl in Inglewood.
Usually I do prefer watching competitive matches rather than one sided beatdowns, but if there's one player I enjoyed watching in full flight when he dished out beatdowns and destroyed his opponents, it was Mac.
Usually I do prefer watching competitive matches rather than one sided beatdowns, but if there's one player I enjoyed watching in full flight when he dished out beatdowns and destroyed his opponents, it was Mac.
kiki
Banned
Yes.I still have flashes stick into my memory of the 1984 and 1985 Masters, where he looked like playing in another galaxy.
In any case, there was no " exhibition" or " unofficial" match between those 2.Some of those matches were more spectacular and torrid than some regular tour matches.
Rozroz
G.O.A.T.
this is excellent! sorry if was posted before
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI-TNBvflWM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI-TNBvflWM
Thanks for the video, great to watch. From 1985-1987, the US Open was dubbed the Czechoslovakian Open, with all 6 male/female singles champions, and 9 out of the 12 finalists including all 4 in 1986, born in Czechoslovakia.
It was a shame how Mac declined after that 1985 US Open final. He was the clear favourite to win his 5th US Open title, having been in imperious form over the summer and completely outclassing Lendl at Stratton Mountain and Montreal. Plus Lendl had lost 6 out of his previous 7 slam finals including the previous 3 US Open finals. Mac's 1985 SF against Wilander in the heat was brutal.
For anyone interested, this the link for a 90 minute movie called 'John McEnroe The Rites of Passage', narrated by Bud Collins, profiling Mac from his college years through to his battles against Borg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XYbvHibG2c
It was a shame how Mac declined after that 1985 US Open final. He was the clear favourite to win his 5th US Open title, having been in imperious form over the summer and completely outclassing Lendl at Stratton Mountain and Montreal. Plus Lendl had lost 6 out of his previous 7 slam finals including the previous 3 US Open finals. Mac's 1985 SF against Wilander in the heat was brutal.
For anyone interested, this the link for a 90 minute movie called 'John McEnroe The Rites of Passage', narrated by Bud Collins, profiling Mac from his college years through to his battles against Borg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XYbvHibG2c
kiki
Banned
Like him or not, Mc Enroe has been one of the most expected and polarised players in the history of this game.I still remember what big expectation he brought in order to break the strenghold of the pure baseline play that was dominating the last 70´s with the likes of Borg,Vilas and Connors plus a few more.The old S&V guys such as Newcombe and Laver were praising him and many journalists believed that he was the most talented player since Laver and even more than Laver.
What Mac basically brought to the table was the resurgence of the classic style, in fact he was the only player that was able to beat 5 times Wimbledon champion Borg.
Of course, many also welcomed the brash, arrogant and flamboyant style that, after Nastase´s best years and Connors " becoming a good boy", was clearly downhill.
Finally, he also brought two great things: respect and attention for doubles and also, for the Davis Cup.he is one of the greatest DC players of all time and , of course, an all time great in doubles.
What Mac basically brought to the table was the resurgence of the classic style, in fact he was the only player that was able to beat 5 times Wimbledon champion Borg.
Of course, many also welcomed the brash, arrogant and flamboyant style that, after Nastase´s best years and Connors " becoming a good boy", was clearly downhill.
Finally, he also brought two great things: respect and attention for doubles and also, for the Davis Cup.he is one of the greatest DC players of all time and , of course, an all time great in doubles.
^^ Great post. Like Connors and Lendl, he could behave like a complete a**hole a lot of the time, but he is unquestionably one of the best things to have ever happened to tennis, contributing massively to it becoming more of a mainstream sport in the 70s and 80s, and salvaging the prestige and reputation of the Davis Cup in the US.
Rozroz
G.O.A.T.
amazing footage! great link. thanks.
^ No worries ! I stumbled across that randomly and it was a good watch.
Also here's an ESPN sports century documentary on Mac (it's both positive and negative)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cRPp9HfsGU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIjMuOIRYMo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfs3EgCYD_0
In this series there were also documentaries on players such as Agassi (also on youtube), Connors (previously on youtube but was recently taken down I think), Sampras, Tilden, Budge etc.
Also here's an ESPN sports century documentary on Mac (it's both positive and negative)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cRPp9HfsGU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIjMuOIRYMo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfs3EgCYD_0
In this series there were also documentaries on players such as Agassi (also on youtube), Connors (previously on youtube but was recently taken down I think), Sampras, Tilden, Budge etc.
Guys don't you expect your GOAT to prove themselves on all surfaces and all the majors or are you so impressed with his doubles, he gets a pass on red clay and still reaches the highest accolade in tennis? This is not just about '84 implosion. In 10 tries, He reached the semis exactly twice and the quarters twice. Most of the time, he did not make it into the second week. I don't care how low a priority RG is or was. Even Billie Jean realized you cannot be taken serious at the highest levels without beating red dirt at RG at least once. Its not like his shelves have lots of Rome, Berlin or Madrid memorabilia to dust instead.
IMO, it is even more important that a s/ver show he can conquer his worst demons, his toughest opponents and the slowest courts to gain GOAT cred, just as any baseliner must prove his worth on the fastest of surfaces beating the bestest there, at least once or twice over the long haul.
IMO, it is even more important that a s/ver show he can conquer his worst demons, his toughest opponents and the slowest courts to gain GOAT cred, just as any baseliner must prove his worth on the fastest of surfaces beating the bestest there, at least once or twice over the long haul.
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kiki
Banned
I never said Mac is GOAT
Laver is
All I say is he was one of the most special players ever
I don' t care about comparatives or statistics or fanboys
Give me the best version of him or the best version of Hana any given day to me and, from 1980 on I will tell you that I need nothing else to enjoy REAL TENNIS
I have never seen GOAT debate linked with such a simple and for us fans pure concept
WHO DO YOU ENJOY THE BEST WATCHING
While I have a few more faves (Connors,Hingis,Edberg,Graf,Becker,Sampras) from 1980 on nobody has been greater than Mc Enroe & Mandlikova
Laver is
All I say is he was one of the most special players ever
I don' t care about comparatives or statistics or fanboys
Give me the best version of him or the best version of Hana any given day to me and, from 1980 on I will tell you that I need nothing else to enjoy REAL TENNIS
I have never seen GOAT debate linked with such a simple and for us fans pure concept
WHO DO YOU ENJOY THE BEST WATCHING
While I have a few more faves (Connors,Hingis,Edberg,Graf,Becker,Sampras) from 1980 on nobody has been greater than Mc Enroe & Mandlikova
joe sch
Legend
Love him or Hate him, I think that if you consider both singles and doubles and service to country (Davis Cup) then he is a top GOAT candidate. Now throw in longevity, he is still playing top level tennis and IMO is the best player in his age class and could still beat many great younger players. Im think GOAT does mean "of all time" and Im also applying the longest playing time consideration to this futile debate.
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Well the folks on the first page of this thread , were making some curious arguments in February. I see plenty of virtues in the McEnroe game and there are few men I'd rather watch. You never knew what was coming from that racket face. His game was a unique fusion of science, art, and the athletic. But he imploded too early and did not prove enough.
joe sch
Legend
It is a shame that Mac "imploded" too early.
I think his relationship with Tatam O'neil was central to that exit from the top of the pro tennis tour. Atleast he did return and has been competing his whole life with the best.
Its also a shame that Bjorn retired too early because of burnout.
I think many would like to see Bjorn and Mac play some some singles exo's now, with wood rackets. This would be very entertaining and really help everyone remember how tennis was played. You can bet on Mac moving forward.
