Issue with Racquettune 4.8

verbouge · Dec 8, 2013

I'm an MRT who's begun stringing at my club. This was kind of a chance opportunity, and it's a great way to mingle with lots of players and get to know them better.

I prefer to string for SBS, and in the interest of doing so, am attempting to educate the clientele of the benefits of this approach. A useful and impressive tool for doing this (and for checking the quality of my own work!) is Racquettune. This single app, and its sister apps, is the only reason I own an iPhone over a Droid.

But there's been a problem of late. Even in a quiet environment, initial string bed reading in lbs. appears abnormally low. Then, for the next ten or so times I hit the stringbed with the back end of my awl, the number goes successively higher, until it seems to stabilize. For instance, if I string a 100 sq. in. bed with a polyester string at 50lbs, the inital reading will be around 42 lbs. Then, as I hit it again and again, always very gently, always getting a yellow line, it climbs to about 47 lbs. and then stabilizes. Customers have not been impressed with this technology. Frankly, I haven't been, either.

This appears to be new behavior for this app. I wonder if there was a glitch in the last upgrade, if other people have complained about the same issue, or if I'm just doing something wrong that can be easily corrected.

Input is appreciated.

Thanks,
Dave in Oregon

Joonas · Dec 9, 2013

I am closing the app after each racquet measurement. If the app is open and I measure another racquet the readings start from low. Readings of "freshly" restarted app are consistent.

Irvin · Dec 9, 2013

Joonas said:
I am closing the app after each racquet measurement. If the app is open and I measure another racquet the readings start from low. Readings of "freshly" restarted app are consistent.

With multitasking when you close apps and restart you end up back where you were. When you close how are you closing it?

http://ipadpilotnews.com/2013/02/how-to-close-an-app-the-right-way-2/

http://www.imore.com/how-close-three-apps-one-time-multitasking-ios-7

Joonas · Dec 9, 2013

I go to view all active apps and close it completely. Not leaving it behind "open" in multitasking mode.

Dags · Dec 9, 2013

Mine is still functioning as expected.

Have you tried adjusting the sound level under the setup menu? My slider is in the middle (which I assume is the default setting).

Imago · Dec 9, 2013

If you cannot separately measure the tension of each main and cross string, you are just fooling yourself and your clientele with this app.

verbouge · Dec 9, 2013

Imago said:
If you cannot separately measure the tension of each main and cross string, you are just fooling yourself and your clientele with this app.

Imago. Please start your own thread if you want to rip on the product. If your words don't pertain to the question at hand, please keep them to yourself. I'm sure, were any of us to know you, we could point out many things that YOU do in which we would think you were fooling yourself.

Joonas · Dec 10, 2013

Only relevant measurement for playability of strings in the racquet is Dynamic Tension of the string bed. RacquetTune is doing fairly good job measuring it. And for the price it is golden.

Tension in kg/lbs is not so relevant. Stiff poly delivers higher DT with lesser kg/lbs than softer gut with higher kg/lbs.

You have few other products like ERT-300 and Stringway Stringlab measuring the same thing. They might be more accurate in sense that you are not depending on parameters like individual string stiffness. But they cost more.

Many top stringers measure their work with ERT-300.

For individual string testing - to find out your flaws - you can use eg Stringmeter. I use it as well. Not for "true value" of tension but to point out differences in individual strings.

Ramon · Dec 10, 2013

I don't recall experiencing this specific problem with the first reading being off. However, I've had other problems, such as missing data and freezes, that were solved after I did a re-boot.

mad dog1 · Dec 10, 2013

verbouge said:
Imago. Please start your own thread if you want to rip on the product. If your words don't pertain to the question at hand, please keep them to yourself. I'm sure, were any of us to know you, we could point out many things that YOU do in which we would think you were fooling yourself.

you mean like this? :twisted:

from the following post by Imago
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=7790946&postcount=31

verbouge · Dec 10, 2013

Joonas said:
Only relevant measurement for playability of strings in the racquet is Dynamic Tension of the string bed. RacquetTune is doing fairly good job measuring it. And for the price it is golden.

Tension in kg/lbs is not so relevant. Stiff poly delivers higher DT with lesser kg/lbs than softer gut with higher kg/lbs.

You have few other products like ERT-300 and Stringway Stringlab measuring the same thing. They might be more accurate in sense that you are not depending on parameters like individual string stiffness. But they cost more.

Many top stringers measure their work with ERT-300.

For individual string testing - to find out your flaws - you can use eg Stringmeter. I use it as well. Not for "true value" of tension but to point out differences in individual strings.

I own a Stringlab and a Stringmeter, but I like the concept of the Raquettune, and the other things you can do with the other apps. As per my first post, the whole point is to educate clients regarding stringing for DT or SBS as opposed to stringing for tension only. And hey, it's part of my phone! I don't have to get any more specialized equipment for this level of sophistication. Until I get this figured out, I may go back to the Stringlab.

This Racquettune software had been working flawlessly until recently. It appears that no other posters have experienced a similar problem, which makes me wonder if it's the phone, or me. Or maybe the right pair of eyes hasn't read the post yet.

Thank you for your input, Joonas.

Irvin · Dec 10, 2013

The right pair of eyes is Sten Kaiser (stoneage.) He is the developer maybe you should shoot him an email. His apps do have some bugs from time to time and work on some phones or ipads but not on others. He has always found and fixed the problem for me.

Joonas · Dec 10, 2013

RacquetTune is especially great as it stores all the history in it. I string for 20-30 players and it is so easy to check latest results, effects of different strings etc. And yes, it is following me everywhere.

stoneage · Dec 11, 2013

When you strike the strings RacquetTune will take a couple of readings from the sound curve and calculate the frequency for each of them separately. The tension calculation is based on the weighted average of the frequencies. When you strike again further readings are added. As long as the sound is about the same, the tension should not go up or down significantly (just become more stable). When I am testing the tension it is usually within 0.1 kg of the final one on the first strike. Resetting should clear everything and give the same effect as restarting the app.

I have no explanation for what you see, but I would like to understand what is happening, especially since I am working on an update of the app right now.

A first question to Verbouge and Jonas: When you see an increase in tension, do you also see an increase in the frequency reading shown above the curve?

Sten

mikeler · Dec 11, 2013

stoneage said:
When you strike the strings RacquetTune will take a couple of readings from the sound curve and calculate the frequency for each of them separately. The tension calculation is based on the weighted average of the frequencies. When you strike again further readings are added. As long as the sound is about the same, the tension should not go up or down significantly (just become more stable). When I am testing the tension it is usually within 0.1 kg of the final one on the first strike. Resetting should clear everything and give the same effect as restarting the app.

I have no explanation for what you see, but I would like to understand what is happening, especially since I am working on an update of the app right now.

A first question to Verbouge and Jonas: When you see an increase in tension, do you also see an increase in the frequency reading shown above the curve?

Sten

That is interesting how the app works. So subsequent strikes take into account recent previous strikes?

Joonas · Dec 11, 2013

stoneage said:
When you strike the strings RacquetTune will take a couple of readings from the sound curve and calculate the frequency for each of them separately. The tension calculation is based on the weighted average of the frequencies. When you strike again further readings are added. As long as the sound is about the same, the tension should not go up or down significantly (just become more stable). When I am testing the tension it is usually within 0.1 kg of the final one on the first strike. Resetting should clear everything and give the same effect as restarting the app.

I have no explanation for what you see, but I would like to understand what is happening, especially since I am working on an update of the app right now.

A first question to Verbouge and Jonas: When you see an increase in tension, do you also see an increase in the frequency reading shown above the curve?

Sten

Hi Sten,

I strung two racquets yesterday and measured the tensions with Racquettune as usual. The first one had tension of 21.3kg. Racquettune showed similar reading after first two taps. No change during the course. I did not close the app but left it in multitasking mode in behind.

The second racquet was a different racquet with different strings. I started measuring the tension and now the recorded tension started to climb from 21.3 after each tap steadily up to 22.4. I had strung to 23kg so I was sceptical. I closed the app totally and restarted. Then after second tap I got steady readings of 23kg.

Regarding your question about freq reading I did not check. I will string today some racket so I try and check.

OccasionalStringer · Dec 12, 2013

Hello Sten

Regarding to your question about frequency reading when showing too high tension. I have had a few occasions when the frequency reading has been correct but the shown tension did not match that frequency.

I think that it has been always after changing either racket or string type. I have had to restart the application to get correct tension reading

But when making updates could you consider showing the frequency with bigger fonts or have a dedicated display mode for that.

I'm mostly interested only in the frequency as it tells it all when you want to follow up your consistency when doing the same racket with the same string and tension and to follow up tension loss over time. I actually record the frequency recorded right after stringing to a small label I put to every racket I string.

But of course when talking with customers it is good to have some idea what is the current tension relative to reference tension.

stoneage · Dec 12, 2013

OccasionalStringer and Joonas
Thanks for the input, I have sent emails to you about further testing.

stoneage · Dec 12, 2013

mikeler said:
That is interesting how the app works. So subsequent strikes take into account recent previous strikes?

Yes, each strike gives up to four frequency readings. Each time you strike, new readings are added. The tension is based on a weighted average* of all the readings since the last Reset. So it is usually good practice to strike at least twice. If it changes very little from the first to the second strike you are usually good. If you see a jump you can continue to strike a couple of times. But it is no use to go on forever, then it is better to press reset and start over.

* I am using a technique called autocorrelation to calculate the frequency. That calculation gives a "quality parameter" which is used as a weight factor when calculating to average and is also showed as good, bad etc in the graph view.

stoneage · Dec 12, 2013

Joonas said:
Hi Sten,
The second racquet was a different racquet with different strings. I started measuring the tension and now the recorded tension started to climb from 21.3 after each tap steadily up to 22.4. I had strung to 23kg so I was sceptical. I closed the app totally and restarted. Then after second tap I got steady readings of 23kg.

Did you press Reset before starting with the new racquet? Otherwise it will add the new readings to the old one.

Joonas · Dec 12, 2013

stoneage said:
Did you press Reset before starting with the new racquet? Otherwise it will add the new readings to the old one.

No I didn't. There is reset?

That would perfectly explain as readings are based on average.

OccasionalStringer · Dec 12, 2013

Hi Sten

I have replied to your message, hopfully you got my email

stoneage · Dec 12, 2013

Joonas said:
No I didn't. There is reset?

That would perfectly explain as readings are based on average.

SwankPeRFection · Dec 12, 2013

Joonas said:
No I didn't. There is reset?

That would perfectly explain as readings are based on average.

Yes there's a reset. It's the circular arrow button. When remeasuring a racquet or a different one, you need to start at 0 by hitting reset. Then you tap a few times until the black bar fills up and that's your final accurate reading.

Also, be aware that when picking a racquet, it automatically picks the last string you tested and saved for that racquet, so if you're changing strings, first select your racquet and then select your string and then go to measure screen. DO NOT go back and pick your racquet again or that will nullify your string choice you made.

Sten, not sure I like this too much. I think the user should pick each combo each time and once chosen, the check marks shouldn't change. You pick a racquet and you pick a string. It should keep the last choice you made for each separately and not combined in any way. You should also be able to pick another racquet and it'll maintain the same previous choice on the string unless you change it. If the app is ever fully quit, then the next time you start it, it doesn't have any check marks on either racquet or string choice. At least this is how I would have written it.

Joonas · Dec 13, 2013

Yes, my bad. I never used the reset. I tried today and after reset and after restart I got similar readings.

User error.

Joonas · Dec 13, 2013

SwankPeRFection said:
Yes there's a reset. It's the circular arrow button. When remeasuring a racquet or a different one, you need to start at 0 by hitting reset. Then you tap a few times until the black bar fills up and that's your final accurate reading.

Also, be aware that when picking a racquet, it automatically picks the last string you tested and saved for that racquet, so if you're changing strings, first select your racquet and then select your string and then go to measure screen. DO NOT go back and pick your racquet again or that will nullify your string choice you made.

Sten, not sure I like this too much. I think the user should pick each combo each time and once chosen, the check marks shouldn't change. You pick a racquet and you pick a string. It should keep the last choice you made for each separately and not combined in any way. You should also be able to pick another racquet and it'll maintain the same previous choice on the string unless you change it. If the app is ever fully quit, then the next time you start it, it doesn't have any check marks on either racquet or string choice. At least this is how I would have written it.

I like it to keep last string to each racquet. I string a lot for players with same string and it easens my life a bit.

mikeler · Dec 13, 2013

Sten,

I love this app and it is well worth the money. I'd like to make 2 requests for a future update:

1. Show the name of the racket on the main Tension page
2. Be able to access the tension history of the racket from the main Tension page

Dags · Dec 13, 2013

SwankPeRFection said:
Sten, not sure I like this too much. I think the user should pick each combo each time and once chosen, the check marks shouldn't change. You pick a racquet and you pick a string.

For the vast majority of racquets that I string, I use the same string each time. I few versions ago, I requested that each racquet defaulted to the last string recorded against it. (whether this influenced Sten's decision is open to debate - the vast majority of my suggestions have yet to turn up... ;-)). I like it as it is.

mikeler said:
1. Show the name of the racket on the main Tension page

I requested this too, along with the details of the string. The response was along the lines of 'You've just selected the racquet, how bad can your short-term memory be?', only more polite. I'm not sure I convinced him of the benefits.

At the moment, my biggest want is the ability to arrange the database in a folder structure. For instance, if I strung for mikeler, I'd like to be able to file his racquets and strings in a form of sub-directory. I really just want to be able to organise things better - a single list just gets kind of messy. I did suggest to Sten that I'd be very willing to pay more for a 'pro' version of the app if he was open to expanding the development. Stuff like using iCloud storage would be cool - I upgraded my phone recently, and forgot to migrate the database across before I wiped the old one.

SwankPeRFection · Dec 13, 2013

Joonas said:
I like it to keep last string to each racquet. I string a lot for players with same string and it easens my life a bit.

Except that if you don't save the test results and you're using a different string, it won't keep the last string. That's the problem, it depends upon you saving the result. I'd rather have it not depend on that or just force the user to pick each time.

SwankPeRFection · Dec 13, 2013

Dags said:
For the vast majority of racquets that I string, I use the same string each time. I few versions ago, I requested that each racquet defaulted to the last string recorded against it. (whether this influenced Sten's decision is open to debate - the vast majority of my suggestions have yet to turn up... ;-)). I like it as it is.

I requested this too, along with the details of the string. The response was along the lines of 'You've just selected the racquet, how bad can your short-term memory be?', only more polite. I'm not sure I convinced him of the benefits.

At the moment, my biggest want is the ability to arrange the database in a folder structure. For instance, if I strung for mikeler, I'd like to be able to file his racquets and strings in a form of sub-directory. I really just want to be able to organise things better - a single list just gets kind of messy. I did suggest to Sten that I'd be very willing to pay more for a 'pro' version of the app if he was open to expanding the development. Stuff like using iCloud storage would be cool - I upgraded my phone recently, and forgot to migrate the database across before I wiped the old one.

Backup and restore moves all that across. You should have done that. That's the SOP for replacing a phone.

Dags · Dec 14, 2013

^^ Initially I did restore from backup, but wasn't pleased with the results. I was going from the 4S to 5S, so the restore meant that the bottom row was empty on every page. I had an awful lot of apps that I'd downloaded but never use any more, so I decided the best way to have a big purge was to reset start from scratch. For most things this is fine; contacts, calendar etc are all synced from the cloud. My racquetTune database flew under the radar. Obviously no one's fault but my own.

Another potential benefit cloud storage could give is for anyone who wants to use the app on two devices, maybe an iPhone and iPad. I think it would be useful, though is by no means top of my wish list.

GlenK · Dec 14, 2013

I like the feature that uses the last string used with the racquet selected. If people are recommending having to select both each time I'd be against that one.

SwankPeRFection · Dec 14, 2013

GlenK said:
I like the feature that uses the last string used with the racquet selected. If people are recommending having to select both each time I'd be against that one.

Well then maybe a change to the code so that it doesn't require you save the test results in order to keep the string selected. That's the part that I hate. Maybe it can be changed so the app saves the string selection at the time of the selection and NOT after the test results are saved.

stoneage · Dec 15, 2013

Dags said:
^^ Initially I did restore from backup, but wasn't pleased with the results. I was going from the 4S to 5S, so the restore meant that the bottom row was empty on every page. I had an awful lot of apps that I'd downloaded but never use any more, so I decided the best way to have a big purge was to reset start from scratch. For most things this is fine; contacts, calendar etc are all synced from the cloud. My racquetTune database flew under the radar. Obviously no one's fault but my own.

Another potential benefit cloud storage could give is for anyone who wants to use the app on two devices, maybe an iPhone and iPad. I think it would be useful, though is by no means top of my wish list.

You can back up the database separately, it is described in the last paragraph in the Guide (you just drag it from iTunes). This means that you can reinstall the app and get the data back without doing a complete restore. It can also be useful if you move the data to another device, e.g. iphone to ipad.

stoneage · Dec 15, 2013

SwankPeRFection said:
Well then maybe a change to the code so that it doesn't require you save the test results in order to keep the string selected. That's the part that I hate. Maybe it can be changed so the app saves the string selection at the time of the selection and NOT after the test results are saved.

Yes, it picks the string that was used when the racquet was saved last time. I am afraid that updating it every time you use another combination might be even more confusing. Then I would prefer to make the automatic pick of string an option (on by default). Even though I am a bit reluctant to complicate things with too many options.

stoneage · Dec 15, 2013

mikeler said:
Sten,

I love this app and it is well worth the money. I'd like to make 2 requests for a future update:

1. Show the name of the racket on the main Tension page

OK, I will do something along that line

2. Be able to access the tension history of the racket from the main Tension page

You have a little part of the history with the tension drop in the top left corner.
But I will take look at how do some more

stoneage · Dec 15, 2013

Joonas said:
Yes, my bad. I never used the reset. I tried today and after reset and after restart I got similar readings.

User error.

But reporting it was good. I have added that picking a new racquet does a reset, as it should have been to begin with.

ART ART · Dec 16, 2013

But reporting it was good. I have added that picking a new racquet does a reset, as it should have been to begin with.

I stoneage, any chances of porting that APP to Android ?

Cheers

stoneage · Dec 17, 2013

ART ART said:
I stoneage, any chances of porting that APP to Android ?

Cheers

Yes, it is in the works. However, there is not much money in apps like this so my partners are doing it on the side. The progress is therefore a bit slow, but we hope to have ready early next year.

mikeler · Dec 17, 2013

I realize you are not making a ton of money doing this but it sounds like you are enjoying working on it as a hobby at least.

SwankPeRFection · Dec 17, 2013

stoneage said:
Yes, it is in the works. However, there is not much money in apps like this so my partner are doing it on the side. The progress is therefore a bit slow, but we hope to have ready early next year.

Not to mention the hundreds of Android devices causing development issues due to resolution, etc. when compared to what iOS gives you.

Thanks for making the app for the iOS devices. It's pretty much the #1 mobile platform to develop first for anyway.

ART ART · Dec 18, 2013

stoneage said:
Yes, it is in the works. However, there is not much money in apps like this so my partner are doing it on the side. The progress is therefore a bit slow, but we hope to have ready early next year.

That would be very nice

When it's done, please start a new thread telling us.

Thank's

SwankPeRFection · Dec 18, 2013

New version came out today. Having a hard time dealing with the rainbow.

mikeler · Dec 19, 2013

SwankPeRFection said:
New version came out today. Having a hard time dealing with the rainbow.

I kind of like it.

babyhagrid · Dec 19, 2013

Don't like the fact that 5.0 has changed the swingweight tool. The weights now go up/down in increments of 2g. Otherwise, I like the new design.

Power Player · Dec 19, 2013

I wonder if the app actually supports 16x15 patterns since it is not on the slider and you have to put it in manually.

Dags · Dec 19, 2013

Power Player said:
I wonder if the app actually supports 16x15 patterns since it is not on the slider and you have to put it in manually.

I'm fairly certain that isn't an issue. There was a brief release (it may have only been a beta) where instead of entering your string pattern you just entered the total number of strings. I believe that's what it actually uses, and it just adds the number of mains and crosses together.

I think the reason the number of mains goes lower on the slider is because of squash racquets (for example, mine is 14 x 18 ). At the other end of the spectrum, I assume it's targeting badminton.

Power Player · Dec 19, 2013

Ok cool - thanks.

smith1212 · Feb 6, 2014

Any news for the android-version?

ART ART · Feb 6, 2014

smith1212 said:
Any news for the android-version?

That would be nice!

Issue with Racquettune 4.8

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