In/Out Device

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Maximus XXIV

Rookie
I played today with another person and a ball machine and see the problem with doubles. There is no way you can play with just one machine because the net player is just too close and hides most of the court. This was my experience anyway.

I also found the need to check the detected lines. They were not always detected properly even though the machines says the court was detected.
 
A

amalguy

New User
@beanie @Christopher54 : I like and share your method and point of view : How to get the most valuable results with the device in its actual state and what are the conditions for ? Good approch. And it works : we can get good results. Thanks for that. Did you achieve the same results with device on the net post during a good period before discalibration ?
I had made some tests myself but only indoors at night with artificial lights and on net post and alone. I tried with a tripod but screw too small. But no good results for now. Only one session with my sun with some acceptable results : indoor with no artificial light. But like yourself, I prefer to have more sessions to share more scientific results.
 
B

beanie

New User
amalguy said:
@beanie @Christopher54 : I like and share your method and point of view : How to get the most valuable results with the device in its actual state and what are the conditions for ? Good approch. And it works : we can get good results. Thanks for that. Did you achieve the same results with device on the net post during a good period before discalibration ?
I had made some tests myself but only indoors at night with artificial lights and on net post and alone. I tried with a tripod but screw too small. But no good results for now. Only one session with my sun with some acceptable results : indoor with no artificial light. But like yourself, I prefer to have more sessions to share more scientific results.
Click to expand...

So far, I used In/Out on the net post in my first and second sessions only. I don't think we got any good results on net post; so much going on, so much to learn. Our first outing was a very cloudy day, dim & dreary. Net post was too big; jerry-rig strap-on job was sliding and I was ignorantly tapping & moving it. It detected the court with bad green lines (missing, misaligned, doodles). It called non-ball items. By the time I found out how to display and get decent green lines, it was too dark and In/Out stopped calling the shots beyond the service line on one side of the court, so we stopped. In my second outing, the sunset was a major lighting problem. The net post strap-on was also bad. I got decent green lines but it was beeping on non-ball items (my hitting partner wore black & white checkered pajama pants - LOL) and it stopped calling due to intense lighting. But a big lesson occurred here - while looking at the green lines, I accidentally rotated In/Out and saw the lines move as well and the misalignment later led to the tripod idea.

I'm not liking the net post due to risk of damage. A hand slap on the net post will make it shake & rattle. Someone posted about his broken In/Out due to impact from netted balls. I'll use net post only if I have to.
 
M

Maximus XXIV

Rookie
Would it make sense to start a technical only thread for the device? I think there are really good thought on this thread. I also ran into a post that was too large today and have noticed that the device moves while on the net.
 
B

beanie

New User
Maximus XXIV said:
I have some high end tripods and am interested in what you are doing. Are you using them at net height or higher? I bet I own something to attach the device as I have all kinds of heads and plates for cameras and scopes. Been raining here.
Click to expand...

Hi Maximus XXIV, I had shared my setups and measurements in an earlier post.
 
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pnw_hardcourt

Rookie
pnw_hardcourt said:
Thanks for taking the time to evaluate the calibration issue. I just assumed the current firmware performs static calibration only, but my feeling is he will be adding dynamic calibration. I'll submit a ticket and ask him. Because obviously you can't assume the device will never move!
Click to expand...

I asked Gregoire about having the device re-calibrate on its own, he says:

"There is an accelerometer inside the device that is not yet used. It will detect if the device has moved enough to alter the calibration and it will redo the calibration. Hopefully by next month, that should be implemented."
 
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amalguy

New User
ElMagoElGato said:
Oh, I see. Please update it as it goes.
Click to expand...
Answer from Gregoire :
This is not a hardware problem. I'm not sure that the main chip is capable to output audio through the HDMI port. Bottom-line, software upgrade might or might now provide this feature in the future.
 
F

Federvich

Rookie
pnw_hardcourt said:
I asked Gregoire about having the device re-calibrate on its own, he says:

"There is an accelerometer inside the device that is not yet used. It will detect if the device has moved enough to alter the calibration and it will redo the calibration. Hopefully by next month, that should be implemented."
Click to expand...

This is good. Thanks to you, christopher54 and Beenie for this research. it's the kind of thing I like to do, but too busy with work and family. Keep it up.

I've used my device once, and it didn't do very well. Probably because of the loose net post issue. plus I was moving it ignorantly moving it or bumping into it.
 
M

Maximus XXIV

Rookie
beanie said:
Hi Maximus XXIV, I had shared my setups and measurements in an earlier post.
Click to expand...
Ok, it seems like you are having success with about 7 inches above the net and 2-4 feet back. I found a plate to work so will try my tripod tomorrow.

My biggest fear is that I will leave this on the court and it will disappear. It would be nice to have an alarm.
 
M

Maximus XXIV

Rookie
Just thinking about fps, is the technical limitation: getting high fps out of the camera or the ability to write high fps to a card? Even a cheap camera should have a clear picture under good light and I wonder if the mapping chip can use a higher fps than the card can write. DSLRs have multiple options for picture quality for speed and file size is issues.
 
onehandbh

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
Maximus XXIV said:
Just thinking about fps, is the technical limitation: getting high fps out of the camera or the ability to write high fps to a card? Even a cheap camera should have a clear picture under good light and I wonder if the mapping chip can use a higher fps than the card can write. DSLRs have multiple options for picture quality for speed and file size is issues.
Click to expand...

The sensor being used and hardware/software will be the physical limiting factors on shutter speed, fps, and light sensitivity to capture a clear image.

Some believe AI will can overcome these limitations, but this falls in the realm of unscientific fiction.
 
M

Maximus XXIV

Rookie
onehandbh said:
The sensor being used and hardware/software will be the physical limiting factors on shutter speed, fps, and light sensitivity to capture a clear image.

Some believe AI will can overcome these limitations, but this falls in the realm of unscientific fiction.
Click to expand...
Yes, but the sensor may be more capable than the video shows because of limitations to write speed and storage for the card.

Software can extrapolate based on multiple images and light room does a good job of cleaning up photos. I do not have a deep enough knowledge of this to be definitive but software does some amazing things.
 
onehandbh

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
Maximus XXIV said:
Yes, but the sensor may be more capable than the video shows because of limitations to write speed and storage for the card.

Software can extrapolate based on multiple images and light room does a good job of cleaning up photos. I do not have a deep enough knowledge of this to be definitive but software does some amazing things.
Click to expand...

Anyone done a teardown to see which chipsets , camera they are using?

I’m sure someone could hack in and probably figure it out without opening it up.
 
ElMagoElGato

ElMagoElGato

Semi-Pro
amalguy said:
Answer from Gregoire :
This is not a hardware problem. I'm not sure that the main chip is capable to output audio through the HDMI port. Bottom-line, software upgrade might or might now provide this feature in the future.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the update. I accidentally bought an adapter anyway. I just hope it comes true someday.
 
P

pnw_hardcourt

Rookie
onehandbh said:
Anyone done a teardown to see which chipsets , camera they are using?

I’m sure someone could hack in and probably figure it out without opening it up.
Click to expand...

The device snaps together, two pieces (blue and white). Be careful to separate them gently and disconnect the wires. The blue piece contains only speakers and heatsinks and the white piece has the mainboard, cameras, and microphone. The speakers, mic, and cameras are the only things connected to the mainboard, everything else is built into this one PCB and it just lifts out of the housing. There is a USB/Serial interface on the mainboard which is hidden normally. The cameras have no markings on them and most of the chipsets are covered with a glued on metal plate which then mates up to the three heatsinks.
 
esgee48

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
Maximus XXIV said:
My biggest fear is that I will leave this on the court and it will disappear. It would be nice to have an alarm.
Click to expand...
Anchor your tripod with 25# sandbags. Also clip your car keys, phones and wallets there. If you leave the courts without any of this stuff, You are experiencing a Major Senior Moment! :p

That glue on material is heatsink grease for conducting heat away from chip sets. You can reseal heatsinks to chips that require them if you ever have to replace the chips. There may be several very small screws that hold the parts together.
 
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pnw_hardcourt

Rookie
esgee48 said:
That glue on material is heatsink grease for conducting heat away from chip sets. You can reseal heatsinks to chips that require them if you ever have to replace the chips. There may be several very small screws that hold the parts together.
Click to expand...

There are no screws, this is a flat metal intermediate heatsink that is probably glued to the board and thermal paste is between this and the actual chips. The only interesting part of the teardown was the usb/serial interface. But it's also likely you could ssh in as well. Probing the system would reveal more (cameras etc) rather than just looking at what SoC is in there...
 
M

Maximus XXIV

Rookie
esgee48 said:
Anchor your tripod with 25# sandbags. Also clip your car keys, phones and wallets there. If you leave the courts without any of this stuff, You are experiencing a Major Senior Moment! :p

That glue on material is heatsink grease for conducting heat away from chip sets. You can reseal heatsinks to chips that require them if you ever have to replace the chips. There may be several very small screws that hold the parts together.
Click to expand...
If? I already left it on one court. Had to interrupt the next game to go grab it. Interestingly, the did not know it was there. The battery was dead.

Had the device out this morning. Had it on a tripod with an old school Manfroto fluid head but could not get it to successfully calibrate. I think it was the heavy shadows on the court causing the issue. Most people still do not really care about the device.
 
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M

Maximus XXIV

Rookie
esgee48 said:
Anchor your tripod with 25# sandbags. Also clip your car keys, phones and wallets there. If you leave the courts without any of this stuff, You are experiencing a Major Senior Moment! :p

That glue on material is heatsink grease for conducting heat away from chip sets. You can reseal heatsinks to chips that require them if you ever have to replace the chips. There may be several very small screws that hold the parts together.
Click to expand...
If? I already left it on one court. Had to interrupt the next game to go grap it. Interestingly
 
A

AllCourtHeathen

Guest
Maximus XXIV said:
If? I already left it on one court. Had to interrupt the next game to go grap it. Interestingly
Click to expand...

What esgee suggested is a good idea and what I used to do.
I have lost at least $2000AU over the years in lost batteries and chargers for my cordless tools, left on site in the meter box on charge whilst you are rushing to get to the next job. In the end what I would do is leave the ute keys in the meter box with the chargers so I physically could not drive off without getting them.
 
C

city_player

New User
It seems his buyers have unwittingly become his unpaid interns in exchange for the privilege of paying $200 as early adopters. I hope this product does work eventually.
 
A

AllCourtHeathen

Guest
city_player said:
It seems his buyers have unwittingly become his unpaid interns in exchange for the privilege of paying $200 as early adopters. I hope this product does work eventually.
Click to expand...

Just joined last thursday huh....
:rolleyes:
 
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J

JP15

New User
You can actually change the SSID/device name to various different players. It remains changed throughout firmware updates and reboots.

To change:
- connect to device via WiFi
- open device page via web browser (http://10.10.10.1/)
- click on "About In/Out" button
- click on the device name on that page (eg. "InOut-PlayerName")
- select a new device name and update
 
ElMagoElGato

ElMagoElGato

Semi-Pro
I updated the firmware to Nov 19. Now I see the hot spot and connect. That's a good thing. I find a few other good things like the automatic court detection and the custom call as @Maximus XXIV mentioned earlier. Has anyone tried them yet?
 
ElMagoElGato

ElMagoElGato

Semi-Pro
amalguy said:
From Gregoire on my ticket : "Fix for sound over HDMI will be applied for next release (the one after 2017-11-19)"
You can see it on the roadmap.
Click to expand...

Oh, thank you again. I never paid attention to the roadmap. It’s good to see the fixes and the plans in one place. And I’ll appreciate HDMI because my device doesn’t replay the video smoothly. HDMI is much better.
 
A

amalguy

New User
ElMagoElGato said:
I updated the firmware to Nov 19. Now I see the hot spot and connect. That's a good thing. I find a few other good things like the automatic court detection and the custom call as @Maximus XXIV mentioned earlier. Has anyone tried them yet?
Click to expand...
The same for me, I can connect now with my nexus 5 phone. I made some sessions with this new firmware past night with automatic light. My court is found but still with difficulties (it was indoor at night). But I made several tests with different device light settings and two differents court lighting and I have not kept track of these tests and the results then I could'nt say if "automatic light" is better for court calibration. I didn't track this because I went to my court to check other functionalities : the other modes. Indeed I noticed that all modes are unlocked in my device. I can say that the service training (ad & deuce) mode worked for me (small session of 5/6 services but all OK) !! For the single match mode, I didn't figure out how it works, there is a lot flashing green light on the device and the "serve square" did not stop changing sides on the device. I think it was not necessarily intended that these modes be unlocked (planned in futur releases in the roamap).
 
M

Maximus XXIV

Rookie
Will be in SoCal soon so hope to take advantage of the weather to get some sessions in. I will try tripod mount and net mount.

Has anyone been able to view stats? I thought someone mentioned they could and sometimes the option is not grey but it does not work for me.

Lets not feed the trolls, just report and move on. Mods are pretty good so far.

And, thanks to all that are going about this in a scientific manner! I really want this product to work well and I think Gregoire is willing to put the effort in to it.
 
T

therecanbeonlyone

Semi-Pro
I had a hitting session a week ago. One segment was 67 shots. The map of that session on the app shows where all balls landed and has the court divided into segments with the percentage of shots that landed in that segment showing on the screen.

So, for example, I can see what percentage was in 5 depth ranges (in front of service line (which is subdivided into 2 depths), from service line to half way to baseline, from half way between service and baselines up to the baseline, or behind baseline) and 5 width ranges (wide on each side, down the middle, or between middle and sidelines). So cool to see that I landed 98% of my shots behind the service line while my hitting partner was only 76 percent behind service line in that small sample size.
 
M

Maximus XXIV

Rookie
therecanbeonlyone said:
I had a hitting session a week ago. One segment was 67 shots. The map of that session on the app shows where all balls landed and has the court divided into segments with the percentage of shots that landed in that segment showing on the screen.

So, for example, I can see what percentage was in 5 depth ranges (in front of service line (which is subdivided into 2 depths), from service line to half way to baseline, from half way between service and baselines up to the baseline, or behind baseline) and 5 width ranges (wide on each side, down the middle, or between middle and sidelines). So cool to see that I landed 98% of my shots behind the service line while my hitting partner was only 76 percent behind service line in that small sample size.
Click to expand...
How do you view that? I cannot get it to work for me.
 
T

therecanbeonlyone

Semi-Pro
Maximus XXIV said:
How do you view that? I cannot get it to work for me.
Click to expand...
After you are done with a session, you need to connect the device to your phone/computer via the app. It will give you an option to upload the session to the cloud, so switch back to wifi and upload. A few minutes later when you go to "Summary" or "Activity" on the app, you should have those sessions available to view.
 
T

Tennis_Monk

Hall of Fame
I got the device but the battery usb connector came loose. Ie it doesn’t appear connected to the battery circuit board inside. When I take out the battery, i can see it’s usb connector loose and not connected to the pcb.Anything I can do other than doing a return?
 
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C

CarterStC

New User
You could try to take the unit apart and try to re-attach it. If it is just separated from the connector, this is a relatively easy procedure. If you need to return it for RMA, expect to wait awhile. I still haven't received mine back despite returning it a couple weeks ago, and being told it is repaired and ready to ship back. I'm expecting now it'll be after the holiday but crossing my fingers that he'll do the right thing and put it in the mail today.
 
C

city_player

New User
therecanbeonlyone said:
I had a hitting session a week ago. One segment was 67 shots. So cool to see that I landed 98% of my shots behind the service line while my hitting partner was only 76 percent behind service line in that small sample size.
Click to expand...

But can it call balls in and out accurately, as per the name and claims of the device?
 
P

pnw_hardcourt

Rookie
Tennis_Monk said:
I got the device but the battery usb connector came loose. Ie it doesn’t appear connected to the battery circuit board inside. When I take out the battery, i can see it’s usb connector loose and not connected to the pcb.Anything I can do other than doing a return?
Click to expand...

You'd have to separate the battery housing and re-solder it. You could also try charging the battery via the terminals. Use a multimeter to find + and -

The solder joints on these connectors seem very weak, you must be extremely gentle with them!
 
C

CarterStC

New User
pnw_hardcourt said:
You'd have to separate the battery housing and re-solder it. You could also try charging the battery via the terminals. Use a multimeter to find + and -

The solder joints on these connectors seem very weak, you must be extremely gentle with them!
Click to expand...
You might want to ask Gregoire if you can do your own repair without voiding the "warranty".
 
ElMagoElGato

ElMagoElGato

Semi-Pro
amalguy said:
The same for me, I can connect now with my nexus 5 phone. I made some sessions with this new firmware past night with automatic light. My court is found but still with difficulties (it was indoor at night). But I made several tests with different device light settings and two differents court lighting and I have not kept track of these tests and the results then I could'nt say if "automatic light" is better for court calibration. I didn't track this because I went to my court to check other functionalities : the other modes. Indeed I noticed that all modes are unlocked in my device. I can say that the service training (ad & deuce) mode worked for me (small session of 5/6 services but all OK) !! For the single match mode, I didn't figure out how it works, there is a lot flashing green light on the device and the "serve square" did not stop changing sides on the device. I think it was not necessarily intended that these modes be unlocked (planned in futur releases in the roamap).
Click to expand...

Quite impressive. Did you hack the device somehow? Gregoire is probably testing his code by going into a test mode that you happen to see. He must be ahead of or inline with his roadmap at least.
 
T

Tennis_Monk

Hall of Fame
pnw_hardcourt said:
You'd have to separate the battery housing and re-solder it. You could also try charging the battery via the terminals. Use a multimeter to find + and -

The solder joints on these connectors seem very weak, you must be extremely gentle with them!
Click to expand...
Thanks. Do you happen to know the voltage that I need to apply to terminals?
 
A

AllCourtHeathen

Guest
gregoiregentil.png


LOL Is Gregoire David Goffin's dad?
 
T

therecanbeonlyone

Semi-Pro
city_player said:
Is there a previous post documenting it's accuracy?
Click to expand...
I don't have any mathematical evidence of its accuracy. All I have is limited experience and interactions with a handful of people who have been with me when using the device. Not one has even come close to questioning its accuracy as much as some of the keyboard tough guys on this thread. They all think it is really cool.
If you have an interest in this type of device and realistic expectations of its development, then you'll probably be thrilled with it. The firmware was updated 10/30 and 11/19, indicating that the developer is working hard and making strides to deliver a more refined product. For me, my expectations are being met if not exceeded right now.
 
A

AllCourtHeathen

Guest
therecanbeonlyone said:
I don't have any mathematical evidence of its accuracy. All I have is limited experience and interactions with a handful of people who have been with me when using the device. Not one has even come close to questioning its accuracy as much as some of the keyboard tough guys on this thread. They all think it is really cool.
If you have an interest in this type of device and realistic expectations of its development, then you'll probably be thrilled with it. The firmware was updated 10/30 and 11/19, indicating that the developer is working hard and making strides to deliver a more refined product. For me, my expectations are being met if not exceeded right now.
Click to expand...

Don't waste your breath on him he's a waste of space and a troll
 
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