Admirable footwork

[Warriorroger]

Like her or not, but just watched these highlights of the Miami match, I have never seen any tennisplayer (male/female) move like Steffi Graf. How can you not like that footwork, she and Roger Federer could be icedancers, that's how elegant both are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2g_Zuj6FXE

 

[Datacipher]

I don't find Graf's footwork elegant. I find it bouncy (probably a bit excessively so, but that beats being not enough), and athletic.

For grace/elegance, Edberg was by far my No.1....with players like Federer, Rios, Mecir, Sampras, and others coming in tier 2. (not to mention some of the amazing footwork of older generations).

 

[Cesc Fabregas]

Nadal, very underrated footwork. The best player I've ever seen at getting the ball onto his forehand, I remember a forehand against Murray Wimbledon this year where he ran round and was nearly outside the doubles alley and belted a forehand winner.

 

[borg number one]

Graf had stellar footwork and movement. She along with Evert were my favorite women to watch. Among the men, Connors, Borg, Nadal, and Federer have really stood out in my opinion. As for Borg I often just watch his feet. Here's an example of Borg's footwork versus Lendl. His footwork, like some other all time greats is simply relentless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jZmFMUGTTU

 

[Lionheart392]

In the clip as well Warriorroger, I love the backhand she hits at 17 seconds in.

 

[Joe Pike]

I don't find Graf's footwork elegant. ...

http://piv.pivpiv.dk/

 

[BTURNER]

Borg number one is right both Evert and Graf had phenomenal footwork, But they did not have the same great foot-speed. Nature provided Graf with something special in the athletic dept that despite all the hard work and technical mastery of certain skills, Evert would never be blessed with.

 

[robow7]

I don't find Graf's footwork elegant. QUOTE]

???

Maybe the best woman tennis player of all time, yet consisting of nothing more than one of the strongest forehands, one of the most offensive slice backhands and footspeed, oh and that incredible focus/determination.

 

[borg number one]

Borg number one is right both Evert and Graf had phenomenal footwork, But they did not have the same great foot-speed. Nature provided Graf with something special in the athletic dept that despite all the hard work and technical mastery of certain skills, Evert would never be blessed with.

Absolutely right. Evert had great footwork, but Graf had far greater foot speed as well as great footwork. As you mentioned though, Evert did have a technical mastery that was amazing. Her consistency was unrivaled and required amazing determination, focus, and concentration. Graf, of course had those traits as well. So did Navratilova.

 

[Datacipher]

I don't find Graf's footwork elegant. QUOTE]

???

Maybe the best woman tennis player of all time, yet consisting of nothing more than one of the strongest forehands, one of the most offensive slice backhands and footspeed, oh and that incredible focus/determination.

???

I agree. I was commenting on the elegance of her footwork. All the other comments are all over the place!

 

[Warriorroger]

Yes it is bouncy, and of course to ones personal taste, but I would love to see a clip (divided into two) where Graf and Federer move to Frank Stallone's hit far from over, that hit and their footwork would be fireworks.

 

[Datacipher]

Yes it is bouncy, and of course to ones personal taste, .

True. I suspect that Graf would have been marginally more efficient and perhaps marginally faster, had her bounce been a touch more subtle, and less prolific, but, that's an arguable criticism (almost impossible to say for sure). In any case, her explosive speed and quickness meant she didn't have any coverage problems anyways.

 

[Joe Pike]

True. I suspect that Graf would have been marginally more efficient and perhaps marginally faster, had her bounce been a touch more subtle, and less prolific, ...

What a pity that you weren't her coach back then. Steffi might have learned something from you ...

 

[Datacipher]

What a pity that you weren't her coach back then. Steffi might have learned something from you ...

No. In theory, yes, she would be more efficient, but I wouldn't have touched it at all. For players at that level, and that age, the worst thing you could do is start fooling around with something that fundamental. Since it wasn't holding her back, there would be no reason to tinker with it. In any case, looking at something like that specifically is not the way to fix it. There are drills that might have helped, but chances are, she'd just keep doing it the way she was, and if you forced her to try to change, she'd slow down from the conscious analysis. In any case, as I said, it wasn't a functional issue for her; if you read my OP, it was about aesthetics.

 

[Joe Pike]

No. In theory, yes, she would be more efficient, ...

No, that's a misconception derived from watching (and maybe working with) standard players.
Steffi's unusally high bounce enabled her to move more explosively than other players. As a matter of fact her style has been analysed by scientists. They compared her to high jumpers and concluded (of course) - Steffi is perfect!
Why didn't other players try to copy this style?
Simple - it is physically extremely demanding.

 

[Datacipher]

No, that's a misconception derived from watching (and maybe working with) standard players.
Steffi's unusally high bounce enabled her to move more explosively than other players. As a matter of fact her style has been analysed by scientists. They compared her to high jumpers and concluded (of course) - Steffi is perfect!
Why didn't other players try to copy this style?
Simple - it is physically extremely demanding.

Actually that sounds ridiculous. Certainly the movement is undoubtedly idiosyncratic to Graf, however, it's almost unfathomable to me that other elite athletes would find it to "physically" demanding.

Moreover, I presume the study attributes this to irregularity in Graf's physiology/anatomy?

I would be interested to read it and see the findings...I can only assume the conclusions were not "Graf is perfect". I have access to all journals, and the expertise of a University Kinesiology faculty. What article is this?

 

[Limpinhitter]

No, that's a misconception derived from watching (and maybe working with) standard players.
Steffi's unusally high bounce enabled her to move more explosively than other players. As a matter of fact her style has been analysed by scientists. They compared her to high jumpers and concluded (of course) - Steffi is perfect!
Why didn't other players try to copy this style?
Simple - it is physically extremely demanding.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA . . .

Hey, Joe!
Come over here.
I've got something to show you.
Check out this pretty white jacket.
Pretty cool, huh!
Try it on.
I know,
the sleeves are a bit long,
and the fabric is a little scratchy,
but, just try it, seriously,
it's a very cool jacket.
Right arm . . . left arm,
there you go.
BOOM!
SLAM!
BAM!
OOOFF!
ARRRRAAAAGH!

OK, you can take him away boys.

 

[Limpinhitter]

Actually that sounds ridiculous. Certainly the movement is undoubtedly idiosyncratic to Graf, however, it's almost unfathomable to me that other elite athletes would find it to "physically" demanding.

Moreover, I presume the study attributes this to irregularity in Graf's physiology/anatomy?

I would be interested to read it and see the findings...I can only assume the conclusions were not "Graf is perfect". I have access to all journals, and the expertise of a University Kinesiology faculty. What article is this?

No doubt, Joe has it memorized verbatim! He'll just type it out for you!

 

[Joe Pike]

Actually that sounds ridiculous. Certainly the movement is undoubtedly idiosyncratic to Graf, however, it's almost unfathomable to me that other elite athletes would find it to "physically" demanding.

Moreover, I presume the study attributes this to irregularity in Graf's physiology/anatomy?

I would be interested to read it and see the findings...I can only assume the conclusions were not "Graf is perfect". I have access to all journals, and the expertise of a University Kinesiology faculty. What article is this?

I don't remember it. Was a report in a German sports magazine at the end of the 80s. Yes, Steffi having big feet and very strong calf muscles played a role apparently. And I think her being a little bit pigeon-toed (!). Those physicians compared her to high jumpers' bouncy last steps before taking off to clear the bar. Something like that. Conclusion was, IIRC, that this bouncy footwork was perfect for her but most probably could not be emulated by other players for more than 10 or 20 minutes maximum (too demanding physically).

 

[Limpinhitter]

I don't remember it. Was a report in a German sports magazine at the end of the 80s. Yes, Steffi having big feet and very strong calf muscles played a role apparently. And I think her being a little bit pigeon-toed (!). Those physicians compared her to high jumpers' bouncy last steps before taking off to clear the bar. Something like that. Conclusion was, IIRC, that this bouncy footwork was perfect for her but most probably could not be emulated by other players for more than 10 or 20 minutes maximum (too demanding physically).

Steffi had big feet? Hahahahahahaha . . . Joe, you're too much man! I'll bet you know her shoe size. I'll even bet you've got a poster of Steffi's feet hanging on your bedroom wall.

 

[Joe Pike]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA . . .

Hey, Joe!
Come over here.
I've got something to show you.
Check out this pretty white jacket.
Pretty cool, huh!
Try it on.
I know,
the sleeves are a bit long,
and the fabric is a little scratchy,
but, just try it, seriously,
it's a very cool jacket.
Right arm . . . left arm,
there you go.
BOOM!
SLAM!
BAM!
OOOFF!
ARRRRAAAAGH!

OK, you can take him away boys.

Well, and Seles still has only 9 slams and zero Wimbledons ...

 

[Joe Pike]

Steffi had big feet? Hahahahahahaha . . .

That was a well-known fact back then. Tennis fans know those things.
Because they read tennis magazines. And have watched their faves live not only playing matches but exercising with their coaches ot hitting partners.

I know that facts are your eternal enemies, though ...

 

[forthegame]

Davenport was chubby!

 

[forthegame]

See what a good slice BH can do for you? These days I'm thinking I won't bother trying to perfect my 1HBH (or develop a 2HBH) and hurt my unprofessional elbow, I'll just get myself a good slice. Graf won so many majors without it affecting her.

 

[Warriorroger]

Steffi had big feet? Hahahahahahaha . . . Joe, you're too much man! I'll bet you know her shoe size. I'll even bet you've got a poster of Steffi's feet hanging on your bedroom wall.

Laugh at him all you like, but he has a point, both Steffi Graf and Roger Federer have relatively big feet and hands for their physique, this enables them to this explosive kind of footspeed, it's very different from the way Nadal runs from side to side.

 

[Joe Pike]

Laugh at him all you like, but he has a point, both Steffi Graf and Roger Federer have relatively big feet and hands for their physique, this enables them to this explosive kind of footspeed, it's very different from the way Nadal runs from side to side.

What does someone who limps when hitting know about footwork?
Please ...

 

[Datacipher]

I don't remember it. Was a report in a German sports magazine at the end of the 80s. Yes, Steffi having big feet and very strong calf muscles played a role apparently. And I think her being a little bit pigeon-toed (!). Those physicians compared her to high jumpers' bouncy last steps before taking off to clear the bar. Something like that. Conclusion was, IIRC, that this bouncy footwork was perfect for her but most probably could not be emulated by other players for more than 10 or 20 minutes maximum (too demanding physically).

O...K....well that sounds very implausible given the completely different biomechanical role of a split step vs high jumping.....it's hard to believe they could possible reach conclusions like that; perhaps your memory is suspect...obviously you're very hazy on it as you admit.

You don't remember the name of the magazine...or any of the authors involved? Do you remember anything about the analysis? On what is was based? Experimental/observational/lab etc? What devices were used for measurement?

If it was indeed peer-reviewed, it shouldn't be too hard to find now.

 

[Datacipher]

Laugh at him all you like, but he has a point, both Steffi Graf and Roger Federer have relatively big feet and hands for their physique, this enables them to this explosive kind of footspeed, it's very different from the way Nadal runs from side to side.

No cmon now. Let's look at the actual research before leaping to wild...and rather implausible conclusions about big feet....the person who posted that, is claiming to be working off memory...and seems to have little detail about anything he claims was in this research. I'm skeptical about the odd and vague collection of interpretation that poster offers....but in any case...to now start making statements about Nadal...and seeming differences in biomechanics based on foot size....you're seriously going into fairy tale land now!

Let's wait and see the real research, which Joe Pike has been making claims about!

 

[Joe Pike]

O...K....well that sounds very implausible given the completely different biomechanical role of a split step vs high jumping.....it's hard to believe they could possible reach conclusions like that; perhaps your memory is suspect...obviously you're very hazy on it as you admit.

You don't remember the name of the magazine...or any of the authors involved? Do you remember anything about the analysis? On what is was based? Experimental/observational/lab etc? What devices were used for measurement?

If it was indeed peer-reviewed, it shouldn't be too hard to find now.

Peer-reviewed?
An article in a tennis mag about some physicians from some 20 years ago?
Don't be silly.

BTW, the "biomechanical role" of a split step is not so different from the last step of a high jumper as you may think. And guess what, I didn't need any devices to measure that.


(Peer-reviewed, my ass ... )

 

[Datacipher]

Peer-reviewed?
An article in a tennis mag about some physicians from some 20 years ago?
Don't be silly.

(Peer-reviewed, my ass ... )

Ah yes....The silliness, and in fact, complete dishonest belongs to the person who is willing to claim that scientists have analyzed and shown something, which he now admits it based on his memory of a tennis magazine articles, not written by scientists (issue unknown, magazine unknown, author unknown) YET claim:

No, that's a misconception derived from watching (and maybe working with) standard players.
Steffi's unusally high bounce enabled her to move more explosively than other players. As a matter of fact her style has been analysed by scientists. They compared her to high jumpers and concluded (of course) - Steffi is perfect!

But now people reading this will know better than as to give the slightest credence to any of your false claims, and in addition, we see that you are quite willing to openly make false claims of fact, knowing fully that the claim is not true. It's exactly the same as the small child who tries to tell his friends lies, and then claim "no! It's a proven scientific fact!", even knowing this is a complete fabrication.

BTW, the "biomechanical role" of a split step is not so different from the last step of a high jumper as you may think. And guess what, I didn't need any devices to measure that.

No, it's completely different. Why do you feel the need to pollute the board with more false claims? If you'd like to be more specific about the biomechanics, I'll be happy to discuss it.

 

[BTURNER]

If you'd like to be more specific about the biomechanics, I'll be happy to discuss it.[/QUOTE]

Don't you think it would be a better idea to ignore him and other trolls?

 

[Limpinhitter]

Laugh at him all you like, but he has a point, both Steffi Graf and Roger Federer have relatively big feet and hands for their physique, this enables them to this explosive kind of footspeed, it's very different from the way Nadal runs from side to side.

That makes sense! Big feet, more explosive foot speed! (GOOD EFFING GRIEF!)

 

[Limpinhitter]

No cmon now. Let's look at the actual research before leaping to wild...and rather implausible conclusions about big feet....the person who posted that, is claiming to be working off memory...and seems to have little detail about anything he claims was in this research. I'm skeptical about the odd and vague collection of interpretation that poster offers....but in any case...to now start making statements about Nadal...and seeming differences in biomechanics based on foot size....you're seriously going into fairy tale land now!

Let's wait and see the real research, which Joe Pike has been making claims about!

As far as I'm concerned, a study concluding that big feet give a tennis player more explosive foot speed serves only to establish, either, that: (1) the researcher is an idiot, or (2) the researcher thinks the readers of his study are idiots!

PS: I know, let's put diving fins on Fed's feet and see if it improves his foot speed!

 

[big bang]

I think someone in this thread is into some serious foot-fetish..

 

[Warriorroger]

No cmon now. Let's look at the actual research before leaping to wild...and rather implausible conclusions about big feet....the person who posted that, is claiming to be working off memory...and seems to have little detail about anything he claims was in this research. I'm skeptical about the odd and vague collection of interpretation that poster offers....but in any case...to now start making statements about Nadal...and seeming differences in biomechanics based on foot size....you're seriously going into fairy tale land now!

Let's wait and see the real research, which Joe Pike has been making claims about!

But you can't deny Federer having big feet!

 

[Joe Pike]

Ah yes....
we see that you are quite willing to openly make false claims of fact, knowing fully that the claim is not true. ...
I'll be happy to discuss it.

You are the guy who said Steffi's footwork was "not elegant" (!!).
Yeah, sure ...

What use is it to "discuss" with someone like that ...?

 

[Joe Pike]

As far as I'm concerned, a study concluding that big feet give a tennis player more explosive foot speed ...

They helped Steffi with her "bouncy" style of footwork.
Steffi for sure was no limpin' hitter ...

 

[Pahansuopa]

nice thread

 

[Limpinhitter]

They helped Steffi with her "bouncy" style of footwork.
Steffi for sure was no limpin' hitter ...

I don't give a crap about Schteffi's smelly feet with all of the toe punk she certainly has between her toes. There's nothing elegant about big feet, certainly nothing feminine about big feet. Further, rationality dictates that big feet are, if anything, a hinderance to footwork and footspeed. Imagine how elegant Schteffi's footwork and footspeed would have been if she wore a petite, feminine, 6 1/2 AAAA's, instead of the Sasquatch size 14's that she did wear!

 

[hoodjem]

(Peer-reviewed, my ass ... )

You had some of your peers reviewing your ass?

Geez!?.

 

[Limpinhitter]

You had some of your peers reviewing your ass?

Geez!?.

He must have meant the verb form of peer, as in peer reviewing his ass!

 

[Joe Pike]

You had some of your peers reviewing your ass?

Geez!?.

Admit it, hoodlum, you have never fathomed what a "," or a "." means, have you?

 

[0d1n]

This thread is FUN !

P.S. I definitely agree with the poster (forgot his name) who claims that Edberg's movement/footwork was elegant.
It was absolutely strikingly beautiful !