APD with 3 knots at the top

[Krajicek Serve]

Got this one from a client..
How is this possible? There are 3 knots at the top, while mains should be started at the bottom (16 mains).
I always thought it’s impossible to complete the racket when mains are started from the wrong side of the racket...

 

[esgee48]

[1] Does not look like an AeroPro Drive. Better larger image would help. It is an older model since it skip 8T-8H.
[2] It is a 2 piece string job rather than 1 piece. Should have been 1 piece because the 3rd top knot is a tie off for the start of the cross.
[3] Looks fine to me.

 

[Big Bagel]

mains should be started at the bottom (16 mains).

The total number of mains doesn't tell you where the mains should start. You have to look at the number of holes in the throat as well. If it's a 16-main racquet with 8 holes (4 pairs of holes) in the throat, then the mains would end at the head.

Should have been 1 piece because the 3rd top knot is a tie off for the start of the cross.

The only times a racquet "should" be a 1-piece is if there are only two tie-off holes or if the client requests a 1-piece string job. If neither of those things happen, you can use a 1-peice, but it's really based on personal preference whether you do a 1- or 2-piece string job.

 

[am1899]

Yep. 16 mains doesn’t tell you where the mains start (or end). The number of grommet holes at the throat is the best indicator of that. Two of the most common examples: 6 grommet holes in the throat bridge calls for starting the mains at the throat, while 8 calls for starting the mains at the head. Where you start (along with the total number of mains) will determine which direction the outside mains run toward (either toward the throat or head), and therefore will dictate where the mains are tied off.

The job itself looks fine other than where the top cross was tied (as @esgee48 pointed out). Stringing the frame 1pc would have avoided that. Or having the means to hold the top cross (ex. with a starting clamp), would allow stringing the frame 2pc, crosses top down, eventually tying the top cross off on the 3rd cross.

 

[R15]

From the PJ I am guessing AeroPro Drive Cortex.
Start mains at throat. 2 piece - tie mains at 6T, tie crosses at 7H and 10T.

If it is it'll be interesting to know how someone has managed to finish the mains at the head!

 

[Irvin]

There are a couple of different ways this could be done but you have racket and you should be able to tell. Both way it is a stringer error. My guess would be the stringer cut the string for the racket and it was too short. He tried to string it 1 piece bottom to top and spliced a string at the top to finish.

EDIT: Another way is for the stringer to cut a string for the mains and after the fact realizes the string in too long. Or somehow does some king of a box pattern and ties off both ends at the top. Then starts the crosses top down.

 

[Irvin]

Did anyone else notice the racket was mounted upside down when strung? Or am I the only one that OCD?

 

[Big Bagel]

Did anyone else notice the racket was mounted upside down when strung? Or am I the only one that OCD?

I always mount mine facing up. I just think it looks better, and I want to keep it consistent.

 

[kkm]

I remember Babolat having a racquet similar in color to the APD around 2011, with the mains ending at the top, and skips at 8T-8H.

 

[am1899]

The more I look at it...the racquet does kinda look like an early Aeropro Cortex model. If it is, I’m pretty sure the mains should naturally end at the throat. Which, would mean the stringer did something “funky” to have arrived at the outcome seen in the picture (as @Irvin is eluding to). I also mount racquets right side up to keep another aspect of stringing jobs consistent.

 

[Irvin]

I remember Babolat having a racquet similar in color to the APD around 2011, with the mains ending at the top, and skips at 8T-8H.

Maybe another similar racket but all Aero rackets tie off at 6 or 7B (bottom or throat of racket) according to KM site.

https://www.klipperusa.com/stringing/viewpattern.php?mfg=TBAB

EDIT: I can see in the original post picture there are 16 mains and there are 5 mains outside the throat. Clearly the racket in question mains start in the throat and in that case the mains will end at the throat.

 

[Irvin]

I remember Babolat having a racquet similar in color to the APD around 2011, with the mains ending at the top, and skips at 8T-8H.

All Aero rackets except for AeroTour skip 8 T and B according to KM site.

https://www.klipperusa.com/stringing/viewpattern.php?mfg=TBAB

 

[Irvin]

Look at the knot near the second cross on that racket real close. See any thing funny? It appears to me the top cross is tied off on the 8th main through the second cross grommet hole.

 

[kkm]

It would help if OP would post a better, complete picture of the racquet. Specifically, of the throat of the racquet.

 

[esgee48]

I noticed that knot position. It is a DHH and the orientation says it is tied off on a cross. It does go around that main and the 2 1/2 hitches are bisected by the main. That according to my old eyes.

 

[kkm]

It's some sort of Aerotour, I suspect.

 

[Krajicek Serve]

Yep. 16 mains doesn’t tell you where the mains start (or end). The number of grommet holes at the throat is the best indicator of that. Two of the most common examples: 6 grommet holes in the throat bridge calls for starting the mains at the throat, while 8 calls for starting the mains at the head. Where you start (along with the total number of mains) will determine which direction the outside mains run toward (either toward the throat or head), and therefore will dictate where the mains are tied off.

The job itself looks fine other than where the top cross was tied (as @esgee48 pointed out). Stringing the frame 1pc would have avoided that. Or having the means to hold the top cross (ex. with a starting clamp), would allow stringing the frame 2pc, crosses top down, eventually tying the top cross off on the 3rd cross.

Sorry guys, forgot to mention the racket has 6 grommet holes at the throat.
I will post a full picture later.

Look at the knot near the second cross on that racket real close. See any thing funny? It appears to me the top cross is tied off on the 8th main through the second cross grommet hole.

Yes that was the case, I never have seen such a weird tie off either...

 

[kkm]

Had the previous stringer used one piece of string to string the first 7 mains and tie off (the first five mains of each side, then the seventh mains, and lastly the sixth mains before tying off at 7H), and the other piece of string to string the 8th main on each side and all the crosses?

 

[Irvin]

Sorry guys, forgot to mention the racket has 6 grommet holes at the throat.
I will post a full picture later.

Easy to see from the picture you posted. There are 5 mains to the left of the throat, which means since rackets are symmetrical there will be 5 on the right side. Since it’s a 16 main racket the other 6 mains must be in the throat.

 

[kkm]

^^^the original picture doesn’t show the exits of the strings at the throat, so it’s not easy to see, it’s easy to assume. Anyway, now that OP has mentioned that there are six mains in the throat, I guess for you, with hindsight being 20/20, it’s suddenly conveniently “easy to see.”
As it’s been discussed before, many racquets with six mains “in the throat” could have had eight mains in the throat without the manufacturer changing the spacing of the main strings, by just having the fourth main on each side exit through the throat instead of at a sharp angle from the side.

 

[Irvin]

Anyway, now that OP has mentioned that there are six mains in the throat, I guess for you, with hindsight being 20/20, it’s suddenly conveniently “easy to see.”

Hindsight? See post #11.

EDIT: The OP said this was an APD. Every APD I’ve ever seen had 6 mains in the throat.

 

[Irvin]

Yes that was the case, I never have seen such a weird tie off either...

Did you ever check to see if that top string was a splice?

 

[kkm]

Irvin, OP didn’t mention that it had six mains in the throat until post #17, and in post #1 of this thread he didn’t say anything about it being an APD. He didn’t say anything about it being an APD in post #17 either. In post #1 he just said that it had 16 mains and that the mains should start at the throat. With 16 mains, and mains starting at the throat, sure there would be six or much less likely ten mains in the throat. But still with no proper picture how could one have definitively said? Could have been sixteen mains with eight mains in the throat, with the mains starting at the head. Again, one thing we don’t know is whether the previous stringer strung all but one main on each side before tying off, in a “Yonex Loop,” before using another piece of string to string the last main on each side and all the crosses.

 

[Irvin]

Irvin, OP didn’t mention that it had six mains in the throat until post #17, and in post #1 of this thread he didn’t say anything about it being an APD. He didn’t say anything about it being an APD in post #17 either. In post #1 he just said that it had 16 mains and that the mains should start at the throat. With 16 mains, and mains starting at the throat, sure there would be six or much less likely ten mains in the throat. But still with no proper picture how could one have definitively said? Could have been sixteen mains with eight mains in the throat, with the mains starting at the head. Again, one thing we don’t know is whether the previous stringer strung all but one main on each side before tying off, in a “Yonex Loop,” before using another piece of string to string the last main on each side and all the crosses.

I told you there were 6 mains in the throat in post #11. As far as what type racket it is see the title of the post, “APD with 3 knots at the top.” All APDs have 6 mains in the throat why do we need a picture?

 

[Krajicek Serve]

Did you ever check to see if that top string was a splice?

the main and cross string was intertwined...I untied that knot by hand before I was able to pull the string out of the racket. I will check the strings, I already pulled them out but I remember there was one cross string on the other end of that knot..
I’ll check at home if I still have the strings I pulled out And if I’m able to tell for sure. But chances are he strung crosses bottom to top and then realized he came up short

 

[Krajicek Serve]

I’ll check if it was an APD tonight when I’m home, just to make sure... Guarantee you it had 6 mains at the throat...

 

[Irvin]

If it is any kind of Aero racket and it has 16 mains there are 6 mains in the throat. Only 18 mains Aero rackets have 8 mains in the throat.

 

[Krajicek Serve]

I just checked, it’s an APD....started to doubt myself for a minute there.

The strings was too deep in the trashcan by now, but I remember it was the top cross string which the stinger tied into the tie off at the top. So I guess you meant this by ‘spliced’, Irvin?
Pretty messed up stringjob, but maybe I could have saved a couple of stringjobs that way when I came up short
Stringin crosses bottom the top it inexcusable though, so this stringer should never string a racket again

 

[am1899]

Maybe he/she intended to string it 1pc bottom up, came up short on the remaining top crosses, and then macgyvered in another piece of string to finish the crosses.

 

[am1899]

String in bottom the top it inexcusable though

Unless the mfg forbids it, I don’t see why that’s “inexcusable.”

Seems to me that whatever caused there to be 3 knots at the head of this specific frame - that that may well be inexcusable.

 

[Irvin]

The strings was too deep in the trashcan by now, but I remember it was the top cross string which the stinger tied into the tie off at the top. So I guess you meant this by ‘spliced’, Irvin?

Maybe he/she intended to string it 1pc bottom up, came up short on the remaining top crosses, and then macgyvered in another piece of string to finish the crosses.

That’s correct @am1899. I think the racket was strung as one piece bottom up and the stringer ran out of string before doing the top cross. So he tied off the second cross and the short side main. To finish the string job a short splice was use to string the top cross and the tie off was the second cross and grommet 7T.

 

[jim e]

That’s correct @am1899. I think the racket was strung as one piece bottom up and the stringer ran out of string before doing the top cross. So he tied off the second cross and the short side main. To finish the string job a short splice was use to string the top cross and the tie off was the second cross and grommet 7T.

Most likely that's it.
Important thing is that racquet will hopefully be strung properly now!

 

[am1899]

Most likely that's it.
Important thing is that racquet will hopefully be strung properly now!

What would we do without @jim e? Always a half glass full kinda guy!

 

[jim e]

Hey, After stringing for many years you see just about everything, mis weaves, cross overs on outside of frame pieced up string jobs,one piece stringing bottom up on many that should be top down etc. etc.
My job is to be sure each one leaves from me strung properly.
Most of time I don't even ask who butchered up their last string job, as they most likely have no clue anything was wrong anyways.