Australian Open Number 8 - The Impossible Dream of Novak Djokovic !?

[NoleFam]

20 to 30 years from now when all we have to look at is the stats, maybe you will be right. But you honestly think if Djoker gets most weeks at number one and gets 21 or 22 slams everyone is going to just start loving him? Don't see the narrative changing so dramatically.

I think what he is saying is that it won't matter how much he was/is loved if he gets the records. I don't understand how this became a main talking point anyway. It's like after Djokovic took over it's the first thing someone says that is supposed to be a negative, because what else is there to say? Tom Brady is one of the most disliked qb's in NFL history, in fact I loathe him, but he is one of the most respected, and most likely the greatest. Mac was a lot more popular than Lendl but today Lendl is way more respected. At the end of the day, it's the records that trumps everything else.

 

[Born_to_slice]

20 to 30 years from now when all we have to look at is the stats, maybe you will be right. But you honestly think if Djoker gets most weeks at number one and gets 21 or 22 slams everyone is going to just start loving him? Don't see the narrative changing so dramatically.

If he gets to most slams and most weeks at no.1 it will take quite a journey and effort. I'll certainly enjoy it if it happens and bottom line, it will be history. I think even Novak's haters know deep down that 20-19-16 doesn't paint a realistic picture in terms of each player's strength. It will be even more clear if he gets on top of the numbers. It's a big if though but to deny it with love Fedal had would be clutching at straws.

 

[Lleytonstation]

If he gets to most slams and most weeks at no.1 it will take quite a journey and effort. I'll certainly enjoy it if it happens and bottom line, it will be history. I think even Novak's haters know deep down that 20-19-16 doesn't paint a realistic picture in terms of each player's strength. It will be even more clear if he gets on top of the numbers. It's a big if though but to deny it with love Fedal had would be clutching at straws.

I agree it is closer when you take the numbers away, but like you said, eventually he will be right in line with their numbers if not better. I just dont see him destroying the numbers and setting himself so much further that the narrative changes that Fed and Rafa are not the tennis icons. I guess I am going off the "king" comment that was made. Best records? Maybe, but dont tell me Djoker is going to be considered "king" of tennis and recognized how he wants to be if he ends up with one more slam and 20 more weeks at number one over a Rafa or Fed.

The history of tennis will be told with all three of them in the same light.

 

[Born_to_slice]

I agree it is closer when you take the numbers away, but like you said, eventually he will be right in line with their numbers if not better. I just dont see him destroying the numbers and setting himself so much further that the narrative changes that Fed and Rafa are not the tennis icons. I guess I am going off the "king" comment that was made. Best records? Maybe, but dont tell me Djoker is going to be considered "king" of tennis and recognized how he wants to be if he ends up with one more slam and 20 more weeks at number one over a Rafa or Fed.

The history of tennis will be told with all three of them in the same light.

Federer and Nadal are tennis icons even if Djokovic wins 45 slams. But not because of how much loved they are.

 

[Sport]

Will never be king of tennis. He might get it all, the slams, the weeks, and the h2h's, but if he hasn't won tennis over yet, he never will.

Why would he have to "have won tennis yet"? Djokovic is still behind both Federer and Nadal in number of Slams and behind Federer in weeks as #1.

Now, if Djokovic gets the Slam record, he is the undisputable GOAT. You would have to be completely unobjective to deny that.

 

[Hitman]

Why would he have to "have won tennis yet"? Djokovic is still behind both Federer and Nadal in number of Slams and behind Federer in weeks as #1.

Now, if Djokovic gets the Slam record, he is the undisputable GOAT. You would have to be completely unobjective to deny that.

No such thing as undisputable GOAT, I'm afraid. I mentioned it in your own thread how different eras saw events. What we can say is whoever wins the most slams between the big three is the greatest of their era, because they are all aiming for the same thing.

 

[Lleytonstation]

Why would he have to "have won tennis yet"? Djokovic is still behind both Federer and Nadal in number of Slams and behind Federer in weeks as #1.

Now, if Djokovic gets the Slam record, he is the undisputable GOAT. You would have to be completely unobjective to deny that.

Well, it is TIGER, but yes, I would not argue that at all. But the conversation I was referring to was him being remembered as the "king" of tennis, which to me is more of an icon thing then who was best.

 

[Ovie]

W

I actually think he should win his 8th AO, just to get even with Fed in terms of most titles at a slam.

But at the same time you have to wonder.

He got owned by Fed at the YEC. Couldn't defend Shanghai. Lost the nr 1 spot. Was almost non existant in non slams last year.

Nole is beginning to leak from all sides.

Won 2 Masters and was a finalist in 1 NO HUMAN BEING DID BETTER ON THE ATP TOUR IN 2019 (outside slam)

 

[Ovie]

How has he surpassed the other two?

One reason is he's ahead on h2h
Another is he's won all the big titles
Show me Fed Italian and Monte Carlo open trophy and I'll stop arguing
Show me Nadal WTF, Paris bercy and Miami open trophy and I'll stop arguing

 

[Sport]

No such thing as undisputable GOAT, I'm afraid. I mentioned it in your own thread how different eras saw events. What we can say is whoever wins the most slams between the big three is the greatest of their era, because they are all aiming for the same thing.

Yes, you are right. I remember that conversation we had, and you made a solid point.

 

[Sport]

Well, it is TIGER, but yes, I would not argue that at all. But the conversation I was referring to was him being remembered as the "king" of tennis, which to me is more of an icon thing then who was best.

He would undoubtedly be the king of tennis AND the tennis icon for future generations. People from future generations will not care that much for Federer or Nadal if Djokovic takes the Slam record. Federer and Nadal may have now more fans because they have grown/gotten older watching Federer or Nadal for nearly two decades. Now, people from future generations will not have grwon watching any of them, they will hardly watch a few minutes of their past matches in Youtube highlights. And they will just simply admire Djokovic the most because they will see he won the most Slams when they were competing against each other.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

He would undoubtedly be the king of tennis AND the tennis icon for future generations. People from future generations will not care that much for Federer or Nadal if Djokovic takes the Slam record. Federer and Nadal may have now more fans because they have grown/gotten older watching Federer or Nadal for nearly two decades. Now, people from future generations will not have grwon watching any of them, they will hardly watch a few minutes of their past matches in Youtube highlights. And they will just simply admire Djokovic the most because they will see he won the most Slams when they were competing against each other.

Im not so sure about what you are saying about future generations. They want to watch tennis that is exciting tennis. Many find Sampras boring, still.

 

[Lleytonstation]

Federer and Nadal are tennis icons even if Djokovic wins 45 slams. But not because of how much loved they are.

Djoker is an icon too

He would undoubtedly be the king of tennis AND the tennis icon for future generations. People from future generations will not care that much for Federer or Nadal if Djokovic takes the Slam record. Federer and Nadal may have now more fans because they have grown/gotten older watching Federer or Nadal for nearly two decades. Now, people from future generations will not have grwon watching any of them, they will hardly watch a few minutes of their past matches in Youtube highlights. And they will just simply admire Djokovic the most because they will see he won the most Slams when they were competing against each other.

I dont buy it, not unless he destroys records, which he will not, as he might have 1 or 2 more slams and maybe more weeks but likely not by much. Not enough to surpass the current narrative even for future generations.

 

[NoleFam]

Well, it is TIGER, but yes, I would not argue that at all. But the conversation I was referring to was him being remembered as the "king" of tennis, which to me is more of an icon thing then who was best.

He can already start making his argument as King of tennis but must seal the deal. He has all the Slams, held all the Slams at once (no one else in his era or the previous 4 or 5 eras did it), has all the Masters (no one in his era did it and only Lendl in a previous era did it), has the edge over Fedal head to head, has the most points in one season in OE history, won 4 WTFs in a row (the OE record), won 3 consecutive Slams 3 times (all time record), most AOs (all time record), etc. He must stand on top at the end though and or at the very least tie the other two in Slams and if he does, his case will be the strongest out of the 3. If he passes the weeks record and does that then it's a done deal.

 

[BeatlesFan]

In what way has the tennis establishment tried to keep Novak down? Enlighten us.

I was just going to ask the same thing. The OP is obviously a 16 year old boy who lives vicariously through his "King," repeating the same platitudes as the extreme fringe of the Nole Fam brigade.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

I was just going to ask the same thing. The OP is obviously a 16 year old boy who lives vicariously through his "King," repeating the same platitudes as the extreme fringe of the Nole Fam brigade.

It’s really cringe some of these Novak fans to put it mildly. Can’t believe some stuff been written in this thread.

 

[BeatlesFan]

If he passes the weeks record and does that then it's a done deal.

That word is often ignored in these types of posts. He's 5 slams away from Fed and that's an Everest to climb. Oh, I know, I know... "Nole won TWO slams last year!"

If he gets to 21 slams, 311 weeks at #1 then he's the King of tennis. the irritation from the other fan bases comes when some Djokovic fans act as if it's already in the bag and a foregone conclusion. The hubris instead of even a shadow of doubt is what irritates (and I don't mean you, NoleFam, you're a great Djokovic fan).

 

[BeatlesFan]

It’s really cringe some of these Novak fans to put it mildly. Can’t believe some stuff been written in this thread.

Just hunker down if Novak wins the AO, we'll be treated to 400 "NOLE CYGS INCOMING!" and "NOLE GOAT!" threads.

 

[Lleytonstation]

He can already start making his argument as King of tennis but must seal the deal. He has all the Slams, held all the Slams at once (no one else in his era or the previous 4 or 5 eras did it), has all the Masters (no one in his era did it and only Lendl in a previous era did it), has the edge over Fedal head to head, has the most points in one season in OE history, won 4 WTFs in a row (the OE record), won 3 consecutive Slams 3 times (all time record), most AOs (all time record), etc. He must stand on top at the end though and or at the very least tie the other two in Slams and if he does, his case will be the strongest out of the 3. If he passes the weeks record and does that then it's a done deal.

Well, if he can already make the argument he is the "king" of tennis, then Fed and Rafa can argue that as well if Djoker passes them. Fed has the two biggest records right now and has for a very long time, so the same could be argued if it was switched? So no, he has no current argument, but like you said, he will eventually, but once again, my conversation was not about who was TIGER, but more of who will be celebrated as the "king."

 

[NoleFam]

That word is often ignored in these types of posts. He's 5 slams away from Fed and that's an Everest to climb. Oh, I know, I know... "Nole won TWO slams last year!"

If he gets to 21 slams, 311 weeks at #1 then he's the King of tennis. the irritation from the other fan bases comes when some Djokovic fans act as if it's already in the bag and a foregone conclusion. The hubris instead of even a shadow of doubt is what irritates (and I don't mean you, NoleFam, you're a great Djokovic fan).

He's actually 4 Slams away from Federer though.

Exactly, If, because he's not quite there yet. He must hold off next gen and keep Fedal from getting too far away from him, which won't be easy, especially as he ages and it gets harder to keep that intensity week in and week out like he could when he was 24-28. I agree that it's far from a foregone conclusion.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

Well, if he can already make the argument he is the "king" of tennis, then Fed and Rafa can argue that as well if Djoker passes them. Fed has the two biggest records right now and has for a very long time, so the same could be argued if it was switched? So no, he has no current argument, but like you said, he will eventually, but once again, my conversation was not about who was TIGER, but more of who will be celebrated as the "king."

Many Serbian Novak fans call him the King already. Even posters here has Novak w a crown on
But I guess for a Serb it is incredible they have such a good player and they are biased. We just have to live w that. It’s just that not many agree w them. Many Novak fans been talking like this for years already and it’s comical for me and I cannot take it serious, it’s rather childish.

 

[NoleFam]

Well, if he can already make the argument he is the "king" of tennis, then Fed and Rafa can argue that as well if Djoker passes them. Fed has the two biggest records right now and has for a very long time, so the same could be argued if it was switched? So no, he has no current argument, but like you said, he will eventually, but once again, my conversation was not about who was TIGER, but more of who will be celebrated as the "king."

Of course they can. All 3 can now make the argument that I am the king of tennis and here's why. Making the argument as the absolute GOAT is a lot harder though. Federer has the best argument as of now and has for a long time but the gap is narrowing. For me, the king of tennis is not somehow going to be tied to popularity or who was most beloved because sports really just don't follow that path. I just don't see how one can be dependent on the other. You either were the best of your field and all others, or you weren't. Therefore I can't agree that Djokovic can never be the outright King because he will if he stands at the top in achievements.

 

[Lleytonstation]

Many Serbian Novak fans call him the King already. Even posters here has Novak w a crown on
But I guess for a Serb it is incredible they have such a good player and they are biased. We just have to live w that. It’s just that not many agree w them. Many Novak fans been talking like this for years already and it’s comical for me and I cannot take it serious, it’s rather childish.

I just dont like the attitude that it is a given and they have crowned him already. Maybe it will happen, but there is a massive amount of work left for him to do. You dont get to act like he is the best until he has proven it, and he is 4+ slams away from doing that.

 

[kevaninho]

20 to 30 years from now when all we have to look at is the stats, maybe you will be right. But you honestly think if Djoker gets most weeks at number one and gets 21 or 22 slams everyone is going to just start loving him? Don't see the narrative changing so dramatically.

I would say there will be a shift in his popularity, if he takes the slam lead one day.
You know what people are like, especially casual fans. Loads of people only tend to support a team or player, considered the top dog.
Its human nature for most.

 

[Lleytonstation]

Of course they can. All 3 can now make the argument that I am the king of tennis and here's why. Making the argument as the absolute GOAT is a lot harder though. Federer has the best argument as of now and has for a long time but the gap is narrowing. For me, the king of tennis is not somehow going to be tied to popularity or who was most beloved because sports really just don't follow that path. I just don't see how one can be dependent on the other. You either were the best of your field and all others, or you weren't. Therefore I can't agree that Djokovic can never be the outright King because he will if he stands at the top in achievements.

I see "king" as more of an icon or ambassador like Laver. I see TIGER more as who is the greatest tennis wise, hence the acronym.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

I just dont like the attitude that it is a given and they have crowned him already. Maybe it will happen, but there is a massive amount of work left for him to do. You dont get to act like he is the best until he has proven it, and he is 4+ slams away from doing that.

Serbian Novak fans crowned him like 5 years ago In the big picture it’s not that many who thinks like that though.

 

[NoleFam]

I see "king" as more of an icon or ambassador like Laver. I see TIGER more as who is the greatest tennis wise, hence the acronym.

Ok then you are saying the most iconic. That will be Laver, Borg and Federer most likely and probably not changing. I think that's totally different than saying who was the best though. Borg was more iconic but more people saw Sampras as the best at the end of both their careers.

 

[BeatlesFan]

He's actually 4 Slams away from Federer though.

He's 5 away to pass him. The topic was Novak being King of tennis. He needs then to stand alone at the top of the slam heap, not be behind or tied.

In any case, it's ridiculously premature for any Djokovic fan to proclaim him as King of tennis, when he's behind two other players in the most significant matrix for greatness: number of slams. If Novak is currently the King of tennis, what does that make Roger? The Holy Lord Emperor?

 

[NoleFam]

He's 5 away to pass him. The topic was Novak being King of tennis. He needs then to stand alone at the top of the slam heap, not be behind or tied.

In any case, it's ridiculously premature for any Djokovic fan to proclaim him as King of tennis, when he's behind two other players in the most significant matrix for greatness: number of slams. If Novak is currently the King of tennis, what does that make Roger? The Holy Lord Emperor?

Well what if he ties him? Does he really need to pass him, especially if he somehow is able to take the weeks record, along with the rest of his accolades? Not really. That's why I say he's 4 Slams away.

He can make his argument though based on a number factors: dominance, level of play and having all big titles. His run from October 2014-June 2016 is unmatched. You had multiple sports writers and former champs coming out during the height of his peak saying he played the game at the highest level, which can be backed up with his points record. Then it's him with the winning records over the other two, who have more majors than him. So yea, him with 16 still puts him in the ring with an argument for being King, but not the greatest yet.

 

[Lleytonstation]

I would say there will be a shift in his popularity, if he takes the slam lead one day.
You know what people are like, especially casual fans. Loads of people only tend to support a team or player, considered the top dog.
Its human nature for most.

Narrative could shift, but it will depend on how the media portrays all three. If one of them takes over as ambassador like Laver, then I could see them being regarded as the "king" if the records are close.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

 

[Belgrad13]

You must not get stuck so much with the word KING. It's only been mentioned because I'm also a big Elvis fan and that word is used there more often.

 

[Belgrad13]

The whole posture of the body and the humorous way are very entertaining. He also makes mistakes, but they don't matter so much.
As an example, I would like to mention the scattering of hearts after the victorious matches.

 

[Belgrad13]

In addition to the charm and humour, Novak has a strong fighting power and a high sensitivity.
All in all, the result is a modern model athlete of the highest character.

 

[MichaelNadal]

The 80s are GOATY af

 

[Mike Sams]

In addition to the charm and humour, Novak has a strong fighting power and a high sensitivity.
All in all, the result is a modern model athlete of the highest character.

...and who cramps in the USO 2016 Final but calls an MTO while losing and pretending he needs his toenail clipped and to mess up Wawrinka's momentum

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

In addition to the charm and humour, Novak has a strong fighting power and a high sensitivity.
All in all, the result is a modern model athlete of the highest character.

Sounds to me someone is in love

 

[Robert Baratheon]

Will never be king of tennis. He might get it all, the slams, the weeks, and the h2h's, but if he hasn't won tennis over yet, he never will.

I agree.
He is too good for us. We don't deserve him, human scum that we are.

 

[DSH]

How much love he can buy?

 

[Cortana]

2011
2015
2019

His next big season will be 2023 where he wins AO, FO and Wimbledon.

 

[Red Rick]

20 to 30 years from now when all we have to look at is the stats, maybe you will be right. But you honestly think if Djoker gets most weeks at number one and gets 21 or 22 slams everyone is going to just start loving him? Don't see the narrative changing so dramatically.

Fed stans pacing the way for fEd gOaT nO mAtTeR wHaT

 

[Lleytonstation]

Fed stans pacing the way for fEd gOaT nO mAtTeR wHaT