Babolat GT = ouch!!!

[tennismonkey]

just a small sample but i hit with the pure storm gt for a demo session for about 2 straight hours. strung with a soft multi at mid 50's. felt harsh and stiff from the first hit. only shots hit flush in the sweetspot felt good. for the next couple of days, my arm and elbow and wrist tingled.

had a chance to hit with a pure storm non-gt strung with syn gut recently as well. only a half hour session. much softer feel and comfort. not nearly as jarring - especially on off center shots.

at least in my experience, there's something to the GT that isn't all good. i realize some people may be more tolerant of racquets and stiffness. these people are called "teenagers".

 

[pshulam]

just a small sample but i hit with the pure storm gt for a demo session for about 2 straight hours. strung with a soft multi at mid 50's. felt harsh and stiff from the first hit. only shots hit flush in the sweetspot felt good. for the next couple of days, my arm and elbow and wrist tingled.

had a chance to hit with a pure storm non-gt strung with syn gut recently as well. only a half hour session. much softer feel and comfort. not nearly as jarring - especially on off center shots.

at least in my experience, there's something to the GT that isn't all good. i realize some people may be more tolerant of racquets and stiffness. these people are called "teenagers".

I had a similar experience. The PST GT strung with Babolat RPM Blast 17 felt much stiffer than the first generation PST strung with the same string.

 

[ahuimanu]

There have been numerous posts discussing TE, the effect of a racqet's stiffness, and Babolot's raquets in particular. Clearly, if a racquet causes you pain, don't use it. I think the experts agree the cause of TE can be multifactorial. I would start with technique. Last year I was using a heavy racquet and a one handed backhand. Consequently, I was late more often than I should be. This together with the fact that my elbow was too far away from my body, created undo strain. The fact that I am now over 50 probably made me more prone to injury. That being said, I now use a somewhat lighter (but not light) racquet with soft strings (gut in mains, soft poly in crosses). I also have worked on keeping my elbow closer to my body and also worked on being better prepared as you need to take the ball farther in front of you on a one handed backhand. By the way, I had PT with a therapist who has treated pro tennis players. He asked me about the type of racqet and strings, so at least one expert thinks there is a corelation between strings, racqets and TE.

Got a bad case of TE using the old Prince Magnesium (back in the late 80's). So bad, I laid off tennis for almost two years (but my golf got really good). I think it was the metal in the frame plus my big flat first serve that I bombed on a consistent basis (hey, if it works, work it and the lack of rest (listen to your arm...) that contributed to TE.

Am starting to get a bit of tweaks again, mostly because of my changing racquets almost daily, changing of strings (poly to multi and back again) and the new frames these days are so light (plus, getting older, just turned 5-0 too).

Have been conversing with a Master Racquet technician (Bosworth) and they've recommended the following initial changes to help improve performance (and possibly avoid injury) 1) use a leather grip (grip shape has a lot of influence upon comfort and follow thru/wrist snap) 2) add more weight in the handle (racquets today are too light for heavy duty hitting).

I've been using Babolat racquets w/cortex along with softer strings to help with the periodic twinges and so far, its been good. Am also researching flexible frames, preferrably one with fiberglass/kevlar as part of the composition (absorb shock, e.g. bullet proof vest) Hope this helps

 

[li0scc0]

just a small sample but i hit with the pure storm gt for a demo session for about 2 straight hours. strung with a soft multi at mid 50's. felt harsh and stiff from the first hit. only shots hit flush in the sweetspot felt good. for the next couple of days, my arm and elbow and wrist tingled.

had a chance to hit with a pure storm non-gt strung with syn gut recently as well. only a half hour session. much softer feel and comfort. not nearly as jarring - especially on off center shots.

at least in my experience, there's something to the GT that isn't all good. i realize some people may be more tolerant of racquets and stiffness. these people are called "teenagers".

Exactly. I hit with both the PST and PSTGT. Weighed and balanced both racquets to be nearly identical.
PST - no pain, even with full poly.
PSTGT - pain, even with a soft multi at low tensions.

As a side note, even the PST+ was a pain-free racquet, a true delight.

Also, hit with AeroPro Drive Cortext NON GT and APDC-GT. Both racquets weighed and balanced to be nearly identical.
APDC - no pain, even with full poly.
ADDCGT - pain, even with synthetic gut (never tried multi)

Never tried the Aero Storm Tour but DID try the Aero Storm Tour GT. The Aero Storm Tour GT was a terribly painful racquet, and the demo racquet had Dunlop Silk strings (soft multi).

In case anybody was wondering, all racquets had the same grip size, and for all I used the same overgrip (Gamma Grip 2).

 

[SBD]

Except for the pure storms which I don't think is all that great either Babolat racquet's are racquet's on steroids, you can get loads of power but in return you lose touch/feel and control.

 

[LPShanet]

I have read reviews and not seen anything differt from the past. People say the pd and apdc are hurting their arm. Never seen that about the pure storms or aerostorms or GT tech in general.

Bottom line is that you are not the average person. You have serious damage to your arm that needs surgery at some point.

Regardless, i would check into super soft racquets like pro kennex.

Totally agree that overall the consensus (and the actual racquets) aren't that different from the past, with the notable exception of the AST, which actually did change its flex quite a bit with the GT version. If we're being totally honest and knowledgeable, there really isn't anything to "GT tech" that would affect the final product either way. In fact, there are those who would say that there is no "GT tech" at all...just GT marketing. So to pronounce any quality as being present across all GT frames is an error. Despite their all sharing the letters GT in their names, the racquets have little in common. GT is simply their way of creating new buzz around their latest frames (much like Wilson did with BLX after K Factor, and like all the other manufacturers do).

The PD and APD series have long been known to be fairly harsh to many because they are stiff. The AST has, in its GT version, suddenly become much stiffer, too. Not because of GT, but because they changed the layup's stiffness in order to make it play more like the APD. If you notice, they also altered the cosmetics to associate it more with the APD than the PST (which it was associated with in the past). Both of these changes were simply marketing decisions based on the popularity of the APD, which is much greater in units than that of the PST (which they consider a niche racquet). So, you probably will see more complaints in the future about the harshness of the AST GT, despite its previously more friendly nature.

You're absolutely right that the PST GT is not considered a harsh frame. Quite the contrary. But any frame change can cause arm issues (especially elbow), and they did change a few aspects from the previous PST. It's not stiffer at all, but they changed the layup slightly, which most importantly altered the flex pattern and weight distribution slightly. In other words, it doesn't flex any less, but it does flex in a different spot on the frame. These are likely to be what those who have issues with the PST GT are feeling. And then, not knowing any better, they are lumping all the GT racquets together because they share the letters GT (which as I've said mean essentially nothing, other than to denote the years they were sold).

You're right to note the OP's elbow injury, in that these changes in weight and flex pattern are very likely to affect someone with a major elbow injury than the average healthy player, and might not be issues for the typical user. Your advice to check out soft racquets (and specifically Pro Kennex) is really sound in my opinion. But I'd also add that he should take any demo he's really interested in, and get it matched on spec (weight, balance and swingweight) to the last frame he was happy with, as any change in those parameters has a very reasonable chance of causing elbow discomfort just from the change. Unfortunately, flex pattern isn't something that can be changed, nor is it easy to get good, accurate information about it from any source.

 

[li0scc0]

Totally agree that overall the consensus (and the actual racquets) aren't that different fro the past, with the notable exception of the AST, which actually did change its flex quite a bit with the GT version. If we're being totally honest and knowledgeable, there really isn't anything to "GT tech" that would affect the final product either way. In fact, there are those who would say that there is no "GT tech" at all...just GT marketing. So to pronounce any quality as being present across all GT frames is an error. Despite their all sharing the letters GT in their names, the racquets have little in common. GT is simply their way of creating new buzz around their latest frames (much like Wilson did with BLX after K Factor, and like all the other manufacturers do).

The PD and APD series have long been known to be fairly harsh to many because they are stiff. The AST has, in its GT version, suddenly become much stiffer, too. Not because of GT, but because they changed the layup's stiffness in order to make it play more like the APD. If you notice, they also altered the cosmetics to associate it more with the APD than the PST (which it was associated with in the past). Both of these changes were simply marketing decisions based on the popularity of the APD, which is much greater in units than that of the PST (which they consider a niche racquet). So, you probably will see more complaints in the future about the harshness of the AST GT, despite its previously more friendly nature.

You're absolutely right that the PST GT is not considered a harsh frame. Quite the contrary. But any frame change can cause arm issues (especially elbow), and they did change a few aspects from the previous PST. It's not stiffer at all, but they changed the layup slightly, which most importantly altered the flex pattern and weight distribution slightly. In other words, it doesn't flex any less, but it does flex in a different spot on the frame. These are likely to be what those who have issues with the PST GT are feeling. And then, not knowing any better, they are lumping all the GT racquets together because they share the letters GT (which as I've said mean essentially nothing, other than to denote the years they were sold).

You're right to note the OP's elbow injury, in that these changes in weight and flex pattern are very likely to affect someone with a major elbow injury than the average healthy player, and might not be issues for the typical user. Your advice to check out soft racquets (and specifically Pro Kennex) is really sound in my opinion. But I'd also add that he should take any demo he's really interested in, and get it matched on spec (weight, balance and swingweight) to the last frame he was happy with, as any change in those parameters has a very reasonable chance of causing elbow discomfort just from the change. Unfortunately, flex pattern isn't something that can be changed, nor is it easy to get good, accurate information about it from any source.

A very good and thoughtful post!
I do my own matching of weight, balance, and swingweight for all racquets and demo's that I use, and always test with multiple (2 usually) strings to determine how the racquet responds.
As for the GT - so the GT racquets do not actually contain Tungsten? I ask because other racquets that contain Tungsten have seemed uncomfortable in the past as well (Triple Threat Warrior). The Pure Storm Tour (non-GT) does not claim to have Tungsten, the Pure Storm Tour GT does.

 

[Consolation]

A very good and thoughtful post!
I do my own matching of weight, balance, and swingweight for all racquets and demo's that I use, and always test with multiple (2 usually) strings to determine how the racquet responds.
As for the GT - so the GT racquets do not actually contain Tungsten? I ask because other racquets that contain Tungsten have seemed uncomfortable in the past as well (Triple Threat Warrior). The Pure Storm Tour (non-GT) does not claim to have Tungsten, the Pure Storm Tour GT does.

Baring inside knowledge, no way to know. The APD did get a significant bump in twistweight, which would go along with adding or re-distributing, weight at 3-9 (where the GT supposedly is). The Pure Drive's twistweight didn't really change though, so shrug.

Tungsten has been used in several racquets as a way of concentrating weight. It's much denser than lead, and relatively easy to incorporate into CF sheets.

 

[LPShanet]

A very good and thoughtful post!
I do my own matching of weight, balance, and swingweight for all racquets and demo's that I use, and always test with multiple (2 usually) strings to determine how the racquet responds.
As for the GT - so the GT racquets do not actually contain Tungsten? I ask because other racquets that contain Tungsten have seemed uncomfortable in the past as well (Triple Threat Warrior). The Pure Storm Tour (non-GT) does not claim to have Tungsten, the Pure Storm Tour GT does.

The GT racquets do contain tungsten in some form. The real issue is whether it is incorporated in a way that actually affects play. In most cases, racquet manufacturers alter their layups in much more basic ways to affect play, and then add new materials cosmetically and for marketing purposes (much like Head did with Titanium, etc, and like Wilson has done with almost all of their last few "innovations".). I wouldn't assume that the tungsten in the GT racquets was added in the same way, form, place, etc. that it was in the previous Prince frames you mentioned. Any relation is probably coincidental. What's more relevant is that the flex pattern has changed, and the weight is concentrated in different places. The fact that "tungsten" is involved is probably irrelevant.

 

[LPShanet]

Baring inside knowledge, no way to know. The APD did get a significant bump in twistweight, which would go along with adding or re-distributing, weight at 3-9 (where the GT supposedly is). The Pure Drive's twistweight didn't really change though, so shrug.

Tungsten has been used in several racquets as a way of concentrating weight. It's much denser than lead, and relatively easy to incorporate into CF sheets.

In the case of the APD, the 5 point jump in stiffness had much more immediately perceptible effect on its hitting qualities than the variation in twistweight or weight distribution (though those are certainly relevant). The APD GT is very different from its predecessors, which aren't all that different from each other by comparison.