Can you still have a powerful and effective serve, if you don't jump/hop into it?

[CaptainCool309]

When I first started playing tennis around 4 years ago, my first coach was a very elderly man who taught tennis in a very old-fashioned manner. One the main things he taught us was to never jump on the tennis court, especially during serves and overheads. I still remember this quote he always gave us...
"If you want to jump, go play basketball or football, you aren't supposed to jump on a tennis court..."

So me being the impressionable young lad I was, decided to go along with his ideas. On overheads I always kept at least one foot on the ground, and on serves (I'm right handed) I would always land into the court with my right foot. Here's a clip of Gerald Patterson, Don Budge, and Rod Laver serving that way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QL1sglyouU

So fast forward 4 years to now and I've gotten used to serving like that. But I notice that most of my fellow high school players jump into their serve and land in the court with their left foot (If they're right handed) and I notice all the pros serve like that too.

So the question I'm asking is do I have to switch to a more modern way of serving by jumping/hopping into my serve to be relevant in today's game of tennis, or can I still be effective with the more old school style of serving that I'm used to doing. I wish I could show you guys my serve, but I don't have any ways of recording myself playing...however if you take a look at how Gerald Patterson served in that youtube clip I posted that's pretty much the exact same way I serve right now.

 

[LeeD]

Yes and no.....
Naturally, it depends.....
If jumping throws you out of balance and whack, or you (in my case, ME), can't jump at all, then you can only serve the way you can serve.
However, not jumping does lower contact point, giving you a smaller court to serve into. Smaller court makes for lower percentage, causing your BRAIN to deflect downwards a bit and serve with more spin, less pace, so it's possible not jumping slows your serves.
However, if jumping slows your serves, then NOT jumping will....speed your serves.
And precision. Like any stroke, feet on the ground gives more precision. Countered by lower strikepoint and all that mental handicap.
In the end, spend the time to learn to jump and serve.
If you still can't, you will serve faster and more consistent by NOT jumping.

 

[Topspin Shot]

I would say that in a nutshell, jumping is better than not jumping, but it's certainly not the most important thing on the serve. You can still have a great serve without jumping, so if you want, give jumping a go, but don't feel obligated to do so.

 

[WildVolley]

People forget that it used to be illegal to jump. However, a jump or small hop is being used to hit the biggest serves out there today.

You should slowly work your way into a hop. Make sure you have the proper coil and "archer's bow" and then start going up more aggressively at the serve. It will give you more power if properly timed and it will definitely give you a better hitting angle if done correctly. Since you're a high school player this is something you should be well capable of doing.

 

[CaptainCool309]

Alright I agree with what you guys are saying. There's no problem with not jumping on your serve, but if you do jump/hop when you serve there are definitely a few more added benefits. I will try my best to develop a hop/jump serve, and if I don't feel comfortable with that there's no shame in serving the way I have been. Thanks for the advice.

 

[kicker75]

Yes. If you have proper technique and a live arm you can really bring heat on a serve without using your legs. If you add the legs properly, you probably can add 5-10mph on top of that.

The trick though is that it's much harder to time your optimal contact point when adding your legs, cause it's just that many more moving parts.

Sometimes, if I'm struggling to hit my serve well (at it's optimal contact point), I'll minimize my "jump" so I can re-correct my service timing, and it usually helps. Once I start grooving my serve again, I'll slowly increase the legs back into the service motion.

 

[CaptainCool309]

The trick though is that it's much harder to time your optimal contact point when adding your legs, cause it's just that many more moving parts.

Yeah that's one reason I'm afraid to jump on a serve, it just adds one more step in an already complicated process. But I figure If I practice enough I can get into a decent rhythm with jumping into my serve and hopefully like you say, add another 5 to 10 mph on my serve.

 

[shindemac]

There's so many more things that are easier and will get you a better serve than jumping. You can add it in if you determine that's the best way for your serve to get better. Without seeing your serve, it's hard to give advice specific to you. But it sounds like you are still a beginner in tennis, so working on the fundamentals is still a solid strategy!

 

[Lukhas]

Get rid of the "jump" or "hop" thinking. You don't actually jump in the serve: you use leg drive. For starters, try to bend your knees when your serve. And if you do, bend a bit more. Do not exceed an angle of 90° unless you have the tights of Roberto Carlos (ok I exaggerated, but you need good tights to have a deep knee bend). If your motion is efficient enough, you may naturally see your feet leave the ground.

EDIT: Now, if you look at a dude like Wawrinka or Almagro, both have efficient serves and don't get very high in the air. Granted, their upper body is quite thick.

 

[CaptainCool309]

There's so many more things that are easier and will get you a better serve than jumping. You can add it in if you determine that's the best way for your serve to get better. Without seeing your serve, it's hard to give advice specific to you. But it sounds like you are still a beginner in tennis, so working on the fundamentals is still a solid strategy!

There's never a day in my tennis life where I'll stop working on the fundamentals
Just out of curiosity though do you think it's alright if I model my serve like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3qP7yq4hbM
His serve looks fundamentally sound and effective

Get rid of the "jump" or "hop" thinking. You don't actually jump in the serve: you use leg drive. For starters, try to bend your knees when your serve. And if you do, bend a bit more.

Ok Gotcha, no jump, just leg drive . The more you bend your knees the better leg drive you'll have and you'll just naturally leave the ground.

 

[rkelley]

First, if you're serious about trying to become a high level player then it's probably time to find a new coach. Tennis has changed a lot since the 60's.

On the having both feet off the ground (aka jumping), you should learn to do it. It's not going to add a gazillion mph to your serve even if you do it perfectly, but it will add enough to be worth the effort. Make the effort, switch now, and it will serve you for life (pun intended).

 

[rkelley]

There's never a day in my tennis life where I'll stop working on the fundamentals
Just out of curiosity though do you think it's alright if I model my serve like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3qP7yq4hbM
His serve looks fundamentally sound and effective

There's no current high level player serving like that, and there hasn't been in a very long time. You can do it and it will work to a point, but you'll definitely not be tapping into your total potential on that stroke.

Ok Gotcha, no jump, just leg drive . The more you bend your knees the better leg drive you'll have and you'll just naturally leave the ground.

I think about driving up the ball. Yes, the feet just naturally leave the ground. As others have said, you're not consciously thinking about jumping per se.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Well, I would say it depends. Safin had a minimal hop and Dent rarely left the ground on his serve. Still, both were massive servers.

I don't have a pronounced jump or hop yet I serve big.

It's all a matter of extending into the ball properly and timing it well.

 

[CaptainCool309]

First, if you're serious about trying to become a high level player then it's probably time to find a new coach. Tennis has changed a lot since the 60's.

On the having both feet off the ground (aka jumping), you should learn to do it. It's not going to add a gazillion mph to your serve even if you do it perfectly, but it will add enough to be worth the effort. Make the effort, switch now, and it will serve you for life (pun intended).

I will make the effort to develop a both feet off the ground serve. Hopefully I'll get into the "swing" of things and develop a serve "right up my alley" (That's the best I've got)

But yeah my first coach recently retired due to his age and we have a couple new coaches on our team. Both young guys you know a lot about the "modern game"

There's no current high level player serving like that, and there hasn't been in a very long time. You can do it and it will work to a point, but you'll definitely not be tapping into your total potential on that stroke.

I think about driving up the ball. Yes, the feet just naturally leave the ground. As others have said, you're not consciously thinking about jumping per se.

I'll definitely try to develop a both feet off the ground serve for my first serve, but I think I'll stick with the "old school" Gerald Patterson way of serving for my second serve. That way I get the best of both worlds.

Agreed. You don't consciously jump, it's just a natural reaction to motion you're using.

 

[rkelley]

I'll definitely try to develop a both feet off the ground serve for my first serve, but I think I'll stick with the "old school" Gerald Patterson way of serving for my second serve. That way I get the best of both worlds.

I would not advise this. Develop one basic, high level motion. It can be platform or pinpoint, but there should be just one basic motion that you hit all of your serves from. Look at the pros. No one that I can think of has a different first and second serve motion.

 

[CaptainCool309]

I would not advise this. Develop one basic, high level motion. It can be platform or pinpoint, but there should be just one basic motion that you hit all of your serves from. Look at the pros. No one that I can think of has a different first and second serve motion.

Ok you're right I can't think of any pros that do that. But...Until I develop a high level motion that's consistent, I'm going to use my old serve for my second serve. When I develop a high level motion that i'm consistent with (That could take a while, Rome wasn't built in a day), I'll gradually stop serving the old Gerald Patterson style for my second serve and transition into the new motion for all of my serves.

 

[WildVolley]

Ok you're right I can't think of any pros that do that. But...Until I develop a high level motion that's consistent, I'm going to use my old serve for my second serve. When I develop a high level motion that i'm consistent with (That could take a while, Rome wasn't built in a day), I'll gradually stop serving the old Gerald Patterson style for my second serve and transition into the new motion for all of my serves.

I believe you're over thinking this. Adding a hop isn't a drastic change assuming you have decent upper body mechanics. Just time the upward thrust of the legs to coincide with the racket drop and you should be good.

If you've watched the pros practicing, many will stay on the ground when hitting warmup serves and then move to the hop as the shoulder gets warm. Unless you've really burned in the stepping forward motion, this should be something that you can start using in just a few practice sessions.

 

[CaptainCool309]

If you've watched the pros practicing, many will stay on the ground when hitting warmup serves and then move to the hop as the shoulder gets warm. Unless you've really burned in the stepping forward motion, this should be something that you can start using in just a few practice sessions.

That's exactly what I did today when I was practicing with my friend. I kept my feet on the ground when I began hitting warm up serves, and when I felt all warmed up I started to serve with my feet off the ground. I still feel more comfortable serving with my feet on the ground because that's the way I've been serving for the past 4 years, but with more practice I'll probably start to get comfortable with the little hop off the ground.

 

[pvaudio]

My friend, I assure you that you're not doing it right. You should never realize that you're airborne when serving. As already said, it's simply a result of driving with your legs. The other reason that jumping is bad is because a serve is about perpendicular angles. You need to drive your body UPWARDS in order to drive the ball faster FORWARDS. The moment you start focusing on one or the other, the serve overall suffers. The ball toss being out in front and into the court means that when you drive your legs to propel yourself upwards, you're actually moving into the court. Jumping will not achieve this.

 

[WildVolley]

My friend, I assure you that you're not doing it right. You should never realize that you're airborne when serving. As already said, it's simply a result of driving with your legs. The other reason that jumping is bad is because a serve is about perpendicular angles. You need to drive your body UPWARDS in order to drive the ball faster FORWARDS. The moment you start focusing on one or the other, the serve overall suffers. The ball toss being out in front and into the court means that when you drive your legs to propel yourself upwards, you're actually moving into the court. Jumping will not achieve this.

Semantics. You won't go into the air unless you jump, or at least hop. Why tennis players have such an aversion to the word "jump" I'll never understand.

It is probably the same reason that this guy's original coach discouraged getting into the air.

I realize I go into the air when I serve and I have a much better than average serve for my playing level. NEVER assume that how you subjectively experience hitting is the same for other players. This is also why I dislike people telling others what they should be thinking about while hitting. What was a conscious action yesterday may be subconscious today because of many repetitions and practice.

 

[taurussable]

post a video if u can. very interested in serves taught by old style coach.

 

[Lukhas]

Well the word "jump" implies (YMMV) that you actively think about jumping during your serve. Which isn't what you actually want to do. Toss, bend knees, and throw your racquet towards the ball. I do know when I get in the air or not, but I don't actively think about jumping.

 

[WildVolley]

Well the word "jump" implies (YMMV) that you actively think about jumping during your serve. Which isn't what you actually want to do. Toss, bend knees, and throw your racquet towards the ball. I do know when I get in the air or not, but I don't actively think about jumping.

I understand that you don't want someone to totally focus on jumping and then swing at the ball. However, admitting we are jumping (or hopping for most of us) doesn't necessarily imply that's all we're thinking about or that it isn't part of the motion.

This is a pet peeve of mine, but I realize that some people found they serve better when they aren't thinking about the jump or hop.

In any case, this dispute is part of the reason I've become such a huge fan of using video to help your strokes. What you are actually doing is much much more important than what you are thinking about or even think you are doing. Video helps confirm that you have the stroke pattern you want to achieve or if you are terribly botching it.

So for the OP. See if you can get someone to shoot some video of whatever you're doing and then compare it to the pro you choose as a reference model. It really is worth it. You can subjectively feel that you're hitting the ball just like Sampras and video can show something entirely different.

 

[CaptainCool309]

For the last and final time: Whenever I serve with my feet of the ground (Which I'm still getting used too) I never think that I'm purposely jumping, it's a natural reaction to all the leg drive I'm using to hit the serve. I repeat I NEVER consciously think about jumping.

I just say the word jump or hop because I'm going airborne in the process. You are going airborne in the process right? You're feet are leaving the ground right? To me that's the definition of jumping or hopping! But for some strange reason a lot of people don't like the word jump or hop associated with the word serve because they feel that if you associate jumping or hopping with serve, you'll think too much about jumping or hopping and ruin your serve. But I assure you, I don't purposely think about jumping or hopping when I serve, if I do go airborne it's just a natural reaction to all the leg drive I'm using to hit the serve.

If I ever do the ability to find a way record myself serving I will definitely try to post it so you guys can critique it.

 

[tennisdad65]

Guys used to have pretty powerful serves even when they had to have a foot on the ground, before the rule change. It is more important to have the correct knee bend and explode up into the serve.

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

I think so, I mean look at Wawrinka. Dude is a stiff compared to most other pros.

Also, it's not necessary a jump. But it's more like a "lift" that is the resultant of the upward momentum generated by your motion. I don't consciously remind myself to jump into the ball, it just happens.

 

[Tight Lines]

IMO, the most important reason to jump is to gain a significant margin of error, not really to gain any mph. Jim McLennan talks about a 2 degree of angle of acceptance in the vertical direction for a person with an average height. That means the racket angle can vary no more than 1 degree in either vertical direction before the ball goes out. If you jump, you are increasing that angle range. Heath Waters says for every inch higher you gain 5% in consistency. I don't know how he calculated the 5%.

If, by jumping, you gain confidence and your serving percentage increases, then you may naturally try to hit the ball harder, which gives you the impression that you are serving faster.

So, at the same speed of serving, jumping gives you a higher percentage of in serves.

Harry

 

[rkelley]

For the last and final time: Whenever I serve with my feet of the ground (Which I'm still getting used too) I never think that I'm purposely jumping, it's a natural reaction to all the leg drive I'm using to hit the serve. I repeat I NEVER consciously think about jumping.

I just say the word jump or hop because I'm going airborne in the process. You are going airborne in the process right? You're feet are leaving the ground right? To me that's the definition of jumping or hopping! But for some strange reason a lot of people don't like the word jump or hop associated with the word serve because they feel that if you associate jumping or hopping with serve, you'll think too much about jumping or hopping and ruin your serve. But I assure you, I don't purposely think about jumping or hopping when I serve, if I do go airborne it's just a natural reaction to all the leg drive I'm using to hit the serve.

If I ever do the ability to find a way record myself serving I will definitely try to post it so you guys can critique it.

Don't sweat it. There's a strong need here to repeat advice if it's been more than two posts since it was last given, regardless of quality.

 

[CaptainCool309]

Don't sweat it. There's a strong need here to repeat advice if it's been more than two posts since it was last given, regardless of quality.

Ah I see, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[PhrygianDominant]

Don't sweat it. There's a strong need here to repeat advice if it's been more than two posts since it was last given, regardless of quality.

hahahahhah


Captain, I wouln't worry too much about all this. I was focusing on my jump, and the timing was all wrong, and then I saw a video from FYB where Will pointed out that jumping as a rec player was in most cases unnecessary. I now, in fact, do leave the ground and land on front foot, back kicking out, but it all happened naturally due to some leg drive and smooth acceleration of the racquet arm. Hopefully it happens for you that way too.

 

[ProgressoR]

Don't focus on jumping - let it happen if its natural!

 

[GoaLaSSo]

The power doesn't come from the jumping part. The power comes from your body moving up through the ball. There are players that jump high, but make little use of their upward momentum and there are players that only hop or barely get off the ground that use their upward momentum effectively.

The only other advantage to jumping is to get a higher contact point.

 

[NLBwell]

Of course the answer to the question is yes. Laver, although not tall, had one of the best serves in the game.

Check out Michael Stich's serve. Up there as the best server of all time and didn't jump and had the back leg coming through into the court.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my18VIewe_E

Boris Becker, also one of the best servers of all time, brought his back leg through, but also had a big knee bend and got more into the air.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFPPz0Iy5A0

The most important thing is to get your front hip into the court.

Do what is comfortable and works for you. Nothing wrong with experimenting to see if something different might improve things (Roddick found his serve motion accidentally when he was just messing around), but don't worry about what others are doing.

 

[Exzite1]

Leg drive is extremely important on the serve to create the upward drive to contact and the shoulder over shoulder rotation. Everything in tennis starts from the legs.
Leg drive is a really basic fundamental and if you add if, it's going to make what you've already got a much better product. As long as the leg drive is effective and getting you in the air on contact.

 

[CaptainCool309]

In retrospect... I probably should've named the title of this thread:
Can you still have a powerful and effective serve, if you land in the court with your back foot instead of your front foot?

Thanks for all the great advice and info though. I'm learning a lot about serving that I've never really been taught before. Leg Drive, front hip into the court, forward momentum going up into the ball, but most importantly...finding out what's most natural and comfortable for you. I also really enjoyed those videos NLBwell posted. Beckers serve looks a little too unique to emulate, but I really liked Michael Stich's serve.

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

In retrospect... I probably should've named the title of this thread:
Can you still have a powerful and effective serve, if you land in the court with your back foot instead of your front foot?

:shock:

How do you do that?!

 

[Overdrive]

:shock:

How do you do that?!

You don't know how to do that? What a noob...

 

[CaptainCool309]

:shock:

How do you do that?!

Say you're right handed. When you're in your serving position, your left foot would be your lead/front foot, and your right foot would be your back foot. Right? Well In Modern tennis, most players after executing their serve land in the court with their left or front foot. But it didn't always used to be this way...Here's a clip of Lew Hoad serving. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8yZ-PUvz74

Notice that Lew does not come into the court with his left or lead foot, instead he keeps that foot basically planted to the ground and instead comes in the court with his right foot aka his back foot. He does not get he "lift" off the ground most modern tennis players get from coming into the court with their lead foot, but nonetheless Lew's serve (at least in my opinion) still looks to be powerful and effective.

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Say you're right handed. When you're in your serving position, your left foot would be your lead/front foot, and your right foot would be your back foot. Right? Well In Modern tennis, most players after executing their serve land in the court with their left or front foot. But it didn't always used to be this way...Here's a clip of Lew Hoad serving. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8yZ-PUvz74

Notice that Lew does not come into the court with his left or lead foot, instead he keeps that foot basically planted to the ground and instead comes in the court with his right foot aka his back foot. He does not get he "lift" off the ground most modern tennis players get from coming into the court with their lead foot, but nonetheless Lew's serve (at least in my opinion) still looks to be powerful and effective.

Well yeah, I sort of got the idea. I'm just saying that would require me to consciously think about landing with my back foot, versus naturally landing with my front foot.

 

[CaptainCool309]

Well yeah, I sort of got the idea. I'm just saying that would require me to consciously think about landing with my back foot, versus naturally landing with my front foot.

Yup I Understand what you're saying and it's that way for many people. But for me, landing with my back foot is more natural than landing in with my front foot. I can't help it. I don't think about it, it just sort of... happens! Whenever I try to land in with my front foot, it just feels "forced."

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Yup I Understand what you're saying and it's that way for many people. But for me, landing with my back foot is more natural than landing in with my front foot. I can't help it. I don't think about it, it just sort of... happens! Whenever I try to land in with my front foot, it just feels "forced."

Oh of course, I think we all have weird things that our bodies do. My jumping/landing/first step leg is left, yet I ride goofy (right foot out front) when I snowboard.