Confused! My coach does not want me to hit with top-spin.

[SocalTennis]

Good stuff folks.

FYI -- Here is what I am trying to do.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xNPaZj4yn00&mode=related&search=

..but with maybe a little less closed face. I think I am hitting hit flat (open face) but make sure I am coming UP (low to high) on the ball. I like that phrase "forward spin"...Truthfully at my level...I have no friggin idea what exactly is happening but know the feeling and look of the shot I am seeking.

Simply put, the ball goes deep and tucks in before the base line and my racquet head is somewhere above my head after it happens. Also, all this stuff is for my forehand. My backhand is this slice thing that spins to the left. I do not have any TS on my backhand (hell, maybe I do)...so I guess that is another thread, sometime

ox

I don't recommend trying TS on your backhand. Racquet face should always be square at point of contact. On your forehand, you mentioned that your racquet ended up above your head, which is kinda not desireable, unless you're "NADAL". You should finish below your shoulder level if you want to have enough follow-through.

 

[Oxford]

I don't recommend trying TS on your backhand. Racquet face should always be square at point of contact. On your forehand, you mentioned that your racquet ended up above your head, which is kinda not desireable, unless you're "NADAL". You should finish below your shoulder level if you want to have enough follow-through.

Confused. Roger's racquet is above his head.

 

[SocalTennis]

Confused. Roger's racquet is above his head.

That's is only when he hits on the run......you should look at his other forehand shots

 

[Oxford]

That's is only when he hits on the run......you should look at his other forehand shots

OK thanks...I guess I have been watching too many Serena Williams videos. Talk about a whipper!!
:shock:

 

[theace21]

So many different styles of coaching. You should hire a coach that has the philosophy that you do. Don't go to a guy that likes to teach serve and volley tennis, if you prefer to stay at the baseline.

Many coaches want you to play their style. If you are on a team, you must carefully work with the coach - yet do what is best for your development. You hired this guy, knowing that he taught a different style - why didn't you find someone who taught the heavy topspin baseline game....If he is qualified and has developed successful players perhaps you should stick with him...Since you already have a negative attitude towards his methods go else, but ask yourself this.

Why did you go to him in the first place?

 

[Swissv2]

theace21, maybe his choice is limited now.
Personally I dont want a coach that tells me not to do something that I know a lot of professional players do.

 

[Oxford]

So many different styles of coaching. You should hire a coach that has the philosophy that you do. Don't go to a guy that likes to teach serve and volley tennis, if you prefer to stay at the baseline.

Many coaches want you to play their style. If you are on a team, you must carefully work with the coach - yet do what is best for your development. You hired this guy, knowing that he taught a different style - why didn't you find someone who taught the heavy topspin baseline game....If he is qualified and has developed successful players perhaps you should stick with him...Since you already have a negative attitude towards his methods go else, but ask yourself this.

Why did you go to him in the first place?

Assuming alot here.

At the courts in my development he is the contracted teaching pro and came recommended. They do not allow any other instructors on our courts (go figure). I had no idea how or what he taught and he was my first instructor so I had nothing to compare it to. I had been self taught (yeah I suck) so I had no idea what to look for either.

I stopped the lessons last month after about 8 so I could spend time ingraining what he showed me on my ball machine and I got tired of spending $50 an hour to hit setters he feed me while I shood at the service box. We did other stuff but I felt he was milking the sessons and moving too slow in showing me stuff. Live and learn.

You folks are my only outside opinions I got. :grin:

ox

 

[sureshs]

Federer handles the topspin just fine on clay, plenty of other players kick the top spin high over Federer's shoulder. Federer had problems playing Nadal on hard courts also due to his side spin causing him to make late adjustments and look bad... until recently he's reading Nadal's side spin like a book. Nadal's topspin isn't an issue. Its the side spin that kicks the ball 2+ ft from where a player thinks it should be that causes the problems.

Again, topspin does not cause good players any problems. Its side spin that does since it is difficult to read side spin and when you miss read it it is too late (after the bounce). Top spin you can see the trajectory of the ball and easily judge the spin on it.

Go play against a few lefties that know how to use their side spin... You'll see what I mean.

I think I see what you are saying. But do you really mean side spin or the lefty trajectory and spin orientation of the top spin? Side spin is usually when the ball is hit a little inside out. I play with a rightie who puts a lot of top spin which land short and moves sharply away from me, both FH and BH sides. By the time it bounces, it is too late to get to the ball. It is top spin but not side spin - it is hit by an angled face with some wrist instead of straight at me. Side spin would be if he brushed the racquet from the outside to the inside - some inside out top spins are hit that way - but not the one from Nadal's FH to Fed's BH.

 

[alan-n]

I think I see what you are saying. But do you really mean side spin or the lefty trajectory and spin orientation of the top spin? Side spin is usually when the ball is hit a little inside out. I play with a rightie who puts a lot of top spin which land short and moves sharply away from me, both FH and BH sides. By the time it bounces, it is too late to get to the ball. It is top spin but not side spin - it is hit by an angled face with some wrist instead of straight at me. Side spin would be if he brushed the racquet from the outside to the inside - some inside out top spins are hit that way - but not the one from Nadal's FH to Fed's BH.

Anytime you get a chance to watch court level videos watch Nadals shots and pretend you are on the court playing with him. Nadal hook's his forehands. Missreading topspin and adjusting your stroke at the last moment is not a big a deal, now try miss reading sidespin to find out you are 2 ft laterally (yes Nadals balls jump that vicously sideways if you look at court level video) from where you should be and see what happens. Federer consistently shanked forehands left and right the first few matches (to a lesser degree afterwards) he played Nadal, none of that had to do with high bounces to his backhand or rediculous notions that Federer has problems with high backhands.... else every other clay court player in the world would have made mince meat of him on clay.

If you watched the Masters semi-finals, which is a medium speed indoor court Federer looks like he now has Nadals number and his spins is just giving Federer time to set up to punish Nadal.

 

[maverick1]

I think his coach is only trying to teach to hit with only enough topspin to keep the ball in the court,

John Yandell said something similar in his TennisPlayer.net forum.
At the risk of misquoting him, I think the gist was that pros use topspin because that is the only way to keep the ball in the court at the speeds they hit. At the amateur levels, topspin is overrated. Most amateurs would be better off hitting with less topspin than they do.

 

[sureshs]

Anytime you get a chance to watch court level videos watch Nadals shots and pretend you are on the court playing with him. Nadal hook's his forehands. Missreading topspin and adjusting your stroke at the last moment is not a big a deal, now try miss reading sidespin to find out you are 2 ft laterally (yes Nadals balls jump that vicously sideways if you look at court level video) from where you should be and see what happens. Federer consistently shanked forehands left and right the first few matches (to a lesser degree afterwards) he played Nadal, none of that had to do with high bounces to his backhand or rediculous notions that Federer has problems with high backhands.... else every other clay court player in the world would have made mince meat of him on clay.

If you watched the Masters semi-finals, which is a medium speed indoor court Federer looks like he now has Nadals number and his spins is just giving Federer time to set up to punish Nadal.

I am with you. The terminology was a bit different from what I was used to. What you are calling side spin I am thinking a different axis of topspin.

 

[Ripper]

Many coaches want you to play their style.

B I N G O !

 

[Trainer]

A good topspin shot has a bigger margin of error. You can hit the ball 6 feet over the net with some pop and it can still land in.

Bottom line is, everything is conditional in tennis. Flat shots are sometimes better than TS shots, and vice versa.

 

[The Gorilla]

use topspin!

Gravity is not a powerful enough force to pull a ball hit at full power into the court.Topspin results in the magnus effect in which the spinning of the ball will result in a vortex of air which pulls the ball in the direction it is spinning,in this case down,(but with a slice serve for example-sideways).The reason your friends are hitting short balls is usually that they expend too much of their energy going over the ball and not enough driving through.What you need to do is to adopt a semiwestern or western grip,and as opposed to putting all your strength into topspin,simply wind up your wrist and,hitting along the same angle/plane/line as you do your flat shots, hit the ball.At first they will land in the net but you can fix this by starting from a slightly lower position and finishing at a slightly higher position untill you are getting just the right amount of topspin but are still driving through the ball.You will find that you are able to put everything into the shot but it will always land in.If you find that you are hitting the short balls then close your stance slightly and make sure that you initiate the shot with your shoulder,followed by your arm and hip and wrist.Make sure that you rotate your shoulder and hip into the shot,you'll hit the ball twice as hard and the topspin will just about be able to bring the ball down into the court,good luck!

 

[Mahboob Khan]

B I N G O !

Some former players-turned-coaches will advise you to play their style. Will you like to copy John McEnroe woth played his game with continental grip? The hitting technique has evolved with the players. A coach should not teach the way he or she played, but he/she should coach the way modern game of tennis is played. That's why there are sites such as www.tennisplayer.net where you can see the modern technique, their conditioning methods, and other stuff. We as coaches should be good students of the modern game, observe it, learn from it, and then devise a way to teach/coach it.

 

[jeebeesus]

I think your coach has no idea how to hit with topspin.

 

[sureshs]

Some former players-turned-coaches will advise you to play their style. Will you like to copy John McEnroe woth played his game with continental grip? The hitting technique has evolved with the players. A coach should not teach the way he or she played, but he/she should coach the way modern game of tennis is played. That's why there are sites such as www.tennisplayer.net where you can see the modern technique, their conditioning methods, and other stuff. We as coaches should be good students of the modern game, observe it, learn from it, and then devise a way to teach/coach it.

What about truly gifted individuals? Lansdorp says in a recent interview that he does not believe in the way USTA expects juniors to be taught loopy topspin strokes. He has unbelievable credentials, so he gets heard. What about some less-known guy who has original ideas but the USPTA/USPTR/USTA all discourage him from deviating from their prescribed methods?

 

[alan-n]

What about truly gifted individuals? Lansdorp says in a recent interview that he does not believe in the way USTA expects juniors to be taught loopy topspin strokes. He has unbelievable credentials, so he gets heard. What about some less-known guy who has original ideas but the USPTA/USPTR/USTA all discourage him from deviating from their prescribed methods?

What has the USTA accomplished recently by developing juniors to try to be a right hand version of Nadal with their extreme grips and swinging all out like a monkey. Nadal gets away with his spins simply because he's a lefty and hooks his shots like a twist serve.

Learning the classic game has worked well for Federer. Its simple to add spin to your shots, learning how to flatten out everything else is difficult... It would make sense that those learning how to hit flat first would be more comfortable flattening out shots later on.

 

[sureshs]

What has the USTA accomplished recently by developing juniors to try to be a right hand version of Nadal with their extreme grips and swinging all out like a monkey. Nadal gets away with his spins simply because he's a lefty and hooks his shots like a twist serve.

Learning the classic game has worked well for Federer. Its simple to add spin to your shots, learning how to flatten out everything else is difficult... It would make sense that those learning how to hit flat first would be more comfortable flattening out shots later on.

That is very true. I started tennis at, shall I say an advanced age, and somehow got into the topspin thing. Now I cannot hit flat!

 

[Mahboob Khan]

That is very true. I started tennis at, shall I say an advanced age, and somehow got into the topspin thing. Now I cannot hit flat!

Come on Suresh! Want to flaten it out? When the strings go through the ball more .. more on the horizontal path .. as if you are hitting three balls in a row. Take the ball on the rise and hit through and follow-through. Come on Suresh, you are my brother!

 

[Tezuka Kunimitsu]

I just recently started hitting without topspin and it is amazing the pace I am getting. I use to hit with topspin. Trying to make my opponent become overwhelmed with my topspin, which is very heavy from what I was told. But I was always getting into a predicament that they would give me an easy ball because my topspin aloud them to get under the ball and pop it back up. Then I would end up over hitting.... and what not...ending with them winning the point. I now focus on taking the ball early, not a big back swing like I use to have. My opponent says that I am hitting a lot heavy balls, they are staying lower, and going through the court faster. I use topspin still, just not on every shot. when going short cross court and for safety shots...

I love my flat shots. I am winning more now.

~Joe

 

[sureshs]

Come on Suresh! Want to flaten it out? When the strings go through the ball more .. more on the horizontal path .. as if you are hitting three balls in a row. Take the ball on the rise and hit through and follow-through. Come on Suresh, you are my brother!

I tried such things (obviously not correctly ) My problems are these: 1. The ball tends to fly out of the court 2. I cannot keep the racquet steady during its horizontal path 3. If I try to hit hard and flat, my arms hurt. 4. I am mostly a back-foot hitter

Even on the 1 H BH, I tend to hit topspin or flat but little upwards.

The first tennis book I read was the old one by John Yandell. Classical Tennis or something like that. Straight level racquet takeback, point butt to the ball, mostly closed stance, 4 balls in a row, etc. But from day 1 I could not manage it. I have to do the Nike swoosh and hit mostly open stance FHs - BHs I can manage closed stance most of the time. My racquet doesn't go back very early either - most of the action is towards the last instant after I see where the ball is going to be.

I also find one more difficulty - the topspin put by the opponent. If I hit flat and it is not a real good flat shot, the ball flies out of the court or lands with back spin, setting up as easy winner. I have to either slice (for BH only) or top spin it back a little (FH or BH) to neutralize the spin.

Sometimes I see a pro try to teach an adult player to hit with topspin and he/she keeps hitting it flat after taking the racquet back early, and I think, the grass always looks greener on the other side.

 

[andyroddick's mojo]

I think on offense, when going for a strong shot, a putaway, you should hit the ball more flat, because you get a faster shot, as well as better accuracy. When on defense, or just hitting a normal rally shot, its important to hit with a decent amount of spin, otherwise when going into a rally that increases velocity with every shot, you're bound to lose the point.