Contenders or Pretenders?.

conway

Banned
I won't disagree with anyone ranking Gaby ahead of Jana. But I think something that gets left out in a comparison of the two is the fact that Gaby was great early on and then declined following Wimbledon 1991. Jana was more of a late bloomer having a splash here and there. But she probably played her best tennis in 1997 and 1998.

1997 was a very weak year for womens tennis. That aided Jana's bloom. To her credit she showed signs of progress even in 1996, and had an even greater 1998 than 1997 when womens tennis became a lot stronger. The confidence and momentum she gained from being amongst the numerous vultures of weak 1997 probably aided her in 1998 though.

I do think Sabatini is overrated by a lot of people and Jana might have had more talent, but Gaby was mentally much stronger (note I didn't say strong, stronger than Jana) and much more consistent over a longer period of time. Both would have won a lot more than 1 slam in some eras (although there are eras that would have been bad for both too, related as much or more to court conditions and playing styles than competition).
 

conway

Banned
I never considered Mary Pierce to be a contender she is definitely a pretender in my book. She won far less titles than alot of the 1 slam winners from the 90s.

Mary Pierce H2H vs her main competition
Capriati 1-4
Davenport 4-8
Mary Joe 2-5
Garisson 1-3
Graf 2-4
Henin 1-4
Hingis 6-10
Huber 6-5
Majoli 7-4
Martinez 12-6
Mauresmo 4-6
Novtona 1-5
Petrova 2-2
Sabatini 1-4
Vicario 6-5
Seles 4-5
Sukova 0-1
Williams 1-5
v. williams 3-7

I mean come on she has a winning record over Majoli (worst 1 slam winner ever) Conchita and barely over Vicario? I mean who was she really threatening...

Some of those head to heads are in fact quite good.

A winning record vs Sanchez Vicario (4 slam winner) is very good, even with her firepower she should in theory be capable to regularly beat Sanchez.

4-5 vs Seles is quite good also.

2-4 vs Graf is a good record.

12-6 over Martinez, who was more successful than her until 2000 RG title (over Martinez ironicaly) is very good.

You didn't mention Coetzer who probably deserves inclusion, and who she owns.

Isnt she 1-1 vs Sharapova too.

In Mary's case she was inconsistent like you said, so you shouldn't expect great head to heads. However when she was on fire she could produce some of the best tennis ever. Nobody would have beaten her in the 94 French semis for instance. That is one reason I laugh at blanket statements of some people say Graf had weak competition, and Evert and Navratilova had each other, since prime Chris or prime Martina on a day like that would have been blasted off the court by Mary too. Those type of players who could produce even occasional performances like that didn't exist back then (except Hana, but she was the 3rd best of that era so that is not the same thing). I also laugh at Seles fans who mock Graf for a loss like that, when Monica also would have never beaten Mary Pierce that day. These type of players (Pierce type players) aren't regularly at the top level but they can produce performances they are untouchable. Martinez even on her best clay day was not untouchable by a great player, and saying Sabatini or Novotna could ever reach levels they were unplayable as Pierce could would be a large stretch at best. Fernandez, Majoli, and Date obviously never could or would.

Majoli is very far from the worst 1 slam winner. Schaivone, Bartoli, Stosur, Barker, Mima J., Ruzica, O Neill, Barbara Jordan, and probably Myskina are all worse. Along with a bunch of pre Open Era Australian Open or even French Open winners. Heck she is probably one of the better ones, which just show there aren't many that high quality 1 slam winners. The slamless players group almost is better than the 1 slammers one.

I don't see how you can say Mary is lucky to win 2 slams though. No matter how inconsistent she was, she produced an untouchable level of tennis at the 95 Australian Open, and was at the 94 French Open until the rain delay turned her into a new player post rain delay in the final vs Sanchez. The 2000 French Open was even quite an impressive level, and she had a very hard draw to win the title. Based on that I have to believe she was unlucky to not win atleast 3 slams (all 3 of these). I also saw her play some excellent matches and lose close contests to high ranked players in the round of 16 and quarterfinal stages, which she was playing them in due to the inconsistency on the regular tour you speak of. Yet she is 6-0 in slam semis, that is mighty impressive and says something.

Unlike Mary who was the best player of 3 slams (despite winning only 2), there probably wasn't ever a slam Gaby was the best overall of. Graf played far better than Sabatini at the 1990 U.S Open except the match that really counted- the final. Since Gaby played great (and Steffi not particularly well) in that most pivotal match, Gaby deserved the title of course, but in no way does it compare to Mary's slam winning performances, or even the 94 French Open where she didn't win the title. Even though Gaby could have won the 91 Wimbledon final I don't think in anyway her form overall at the event was better than Graf's ever, and Graf was the rightful winner of that title. Jana was in the best form overall at 93 and 98 Wimbledons, and maybe 97 Wimbledons, so also much more often than Gaby.

The more I say all this I am wondering if I should have ranked 2 slam winner Mary ahead of 1 slam winner Gaby, even in the context of this thread.
 
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