Conventional vs. Existential (practical philosophy)

randzman

Rookie
Conventional vs. Existential

Buddhism says 'to want is to suffer' but what it doesn't (clearly) distinguish the two domains of reality being conventional and existential.

In very short, conventional means to measure or compare - a convention being a standards of assessment.

"I should be happier."
"He's an underrated outfielder."

These are all conventions ... color, personality, skills, etc., qualities we deem good or bad.

By contrast, existential means what 'exists without judgement'.

"I feel good."
"The sky is blue."

In other words, whatever color the sky happens to be is ok ... it is what it is and it doesn't need to be anything else.

That means, existential, everything is 'perfect' ... after all, if something is fine just as it is, then it's also perfect as it is.

So, for example, conventionally... diamonds are worth more than common pebbles ... the convention being that of the value of precious gems and such.

But existentially the diamond and pebble have equal value - each is exactly what it is and as such are equally 'perfect'. (Maybe 'value' isn't the right word because 'value' means conventional but it's useful for the example to show that the diamond and the pebble are 'perfect'.)

Since states of being can't be measured we're never truly certain about our situation in any given moment, and desperately wanting certainty in anything and everything, we suffer.

Examples of conventional suffering:
"I don't know what she'll say when I ask her out."
"I'm not sure this work is good enough."
"I am not good enough."

But existentially everyone is good enough (perfect) and therefore believe (or rather know, existentially axiomatically) they're worthy of love and belonging.

Here's a quick exercise to demonstrate how to switch between conventional and existential and remove suffering.

Pick something you're uncertain about - something that causes stress, angst, frustration, whatever you like.

Exs:
"I'm not sure I'm ready for the test."
"I'm not sure he/she loves me."
"I don't know which to buy."
"I don't know what to do to get what I want."

Ask yourself how stressful it is on a scale of 1 to 10 . Lets say it's a five.

Now ask yourself how certain you are that you are suffering (regardless of whether it's a value of 1 or 10).

In other words, we're asking ourselves, and getting clear about, 'how certain am I that I am uncertain?'

(Take 1-3 minutes to do this…)

On a scale of one to ten how certain are you about being uncertain?

Hopefully you'll find it's a ten because everyone, always, is 100% certain about their uncertainty.

Focus on that particular thought… the certainty … you're sure that you're certain that you're suffering … like you're preparing to convince someone that you're sure about it.

How does that feel? … to focus on the certainty?

On a scale of 1 to 10 what is your level of suffering?

When I re-focus on the certainty (of my uncertainty) I find the suffering is gone.

Rinse and repeat.

I think 'self-actualization', practically speaking, the skill of being able to switch from participant (conventional-suffering) to observer (existential-freedom). ((If you're a computer programmer you may analogize this to pointer/handle.))

If you are suffering - feeling 'not good enough' then you're measuring something - a convention. To be good enough you have to give up the desire to be good enough.

It seems very much like falling asleep - you can't watch yourself fall asleep - you have to essentially 'give up being awake'. At the moment you fall asleep you're completely vulnerable and is proof you can be vulnerable at other times.
 

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
Christianity is a wonderful religion that not only asks you to improve your lot in life but to improve humanity

I still have zero clue about Judaism except for the 10 commandments !!

Another religion I won’t discuss !!

I see buddism as a serf religion that basically says to accept your life
 

donquijote

G.O.A.T.
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Christianity is a wonderful religion that not only asks you to improve your lot in life but to improve humanity

I still have zero clue about Judaism except for the 10 commandments !!

Another religion I won’t discuss !!

I see buddism as a serf religion that basically says to accept your life
There were 15 commandments.
 

randzman

Rookie
Christianity is a wonderful religion that not only asks you to improve your lot in life but to improve humanity.

Why say that. All religions seek to improve humanity by having everyone adopt their value system - not just to achieve personal success. Following the ten commandments is certainly not about selfishness... which in no religion is a virtue.
 
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Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
I think we use both interchangeably within a paradigm of 4 modes: Traditionalism, experience, revelation and reason.
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
Christianity is a wonderful religion that not only asks you to improve your lot in life but to improve humanity

I still have zero clue about Judaism except for the 10 commandments !!

Another religion I won’t discuss !!

I see buddism as a serf religion that basically says to accept your life
Do more research and come back.
I know I am rude, but I can’t help it.
 
C

Chadalina

Guest
Conventionalism allows people to draw their own fate. I prefer existenialism (sp), cannot control others.

Judgement is bad anyways, creates two thoughts since they compare (cant have a bad without a good)
 

Zara

G.O.A.T.
Conventionalism allows people to draw their own fate. I prefer existenialism (sp), cannot control others.

Judgement is bad anyways, creates two thoughts since they compare (cant have a bad without a good)

When you expressed your view on the Confession thread re: the 11-year old case where the father killed his own daughter and went on to shoot himself and you wanted the death penalty for the father, was this opinion based on judgement or was it judgement free? Was there also a choice available to perhaps stay neutral?

As to suffering, when this man went on to kill his daughter and himself, did he envision back then when he fell in love with his ex GF and had a desire to raise a kid, that this would eventually lead him to this event where he'd spend rest of his life behind bars?

Would he have gone down this road had he known the outcome of this path? Did he then cause his own suffering by associating himself to that ex-girlfriend of his?

Was the GF too a part of this suffering for associating herself to this man and now that she has lost her daughter and lived through a roller coaster of a relationship to ultimately end like this? Would she have gone through this had she known?

What about the 11-year-old girl who was in the midst of it and had to die at 11 on her birthday? What was her choice in all this? It seems she came to this earth without a choice and left without a choice. Or is there more to it?
 
C

Chadalina

Guest
When you expressed your view on the Confession thread re: the 11-year old case where the father killed his own daughter and went on to shoot himself and you wanted the death penalty for the father, was this opinion based on judgement or was it judgement free? Was there also a choice available to perhaps stay neutral?

As to suffering, when this man went on to kill his daughter and himself, did he envision back then when he fell in love with his ex GF and had a desire to raise a kid, that this would eventually lead him to this event where he'd spend rest of his life behind bars?

Would he have gone down this road had he known the outcome of this path? Did he then cause his own suffering by associating himself to that ex-girlfriend of his?

Was the GF too a part of this suffering for associating herself to this man and now that she has lost her daughter and lived through a roller coaster of a relationship to ultimately end like this? Would she have gone through this had she known?

What about the 11-year-old girl who was in the midst of it and had to die at 11 on her birthday? What was her choice in all this? It seems she came to this earth without a choice and left without a choice. Or is there more to it?

Judgement free. Cause and effect, he intentionally killed someone after using them as a shield, its not like he crashed his car and she died.

Irrelevant, why he did it is of no interest, only thing that matters is that he did it.

Another reason he should be killled, he ruined more than his 11 yr old daughters life.

Im sure not what the little girl was feeling, she had no choice. "Came to this earth" is sensationalizing, she isnt an alien :p

It happens like everyday

https://www.yahoo.com/news/4-people-including-children-dead-michigan-shooting-215810695.html
 
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LGQ7

Hall of Fame
Christianity is a wonderful religion that not only asks you to improve your lot in life but to improve humanity

I still have zero clue about Judaism except for the 10 commandments !!

Pick up a Bible. See how thick the Old Testament is? See how thin the New Testament is? The Old Testament is Judaism, The New Testament is Christianity.

"The more you know . . ."
 
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