court surface specific rankings

JBIMH

Rookie
Recently I came up with a formula that takes a tennis players ranking points from the past season and some past results to determine a more accurate results based surface specific rankings. I will be updating these rankings weekly and am currently working on rankings for clay, grass, and carpet courts.

http://insomnia-integrity.blogspot.com/
 

flyer

Hall of Fame
Recently I came up with a formula that takes a tennis players ranking points from the past season and some past results to determine a more accurate results based surface specific rankings. I will be updating these rankings weekly and am currently working on rankings for clay, grass, and carpet courts.

http://insomnia-integrity.blogspot.com/

Very interesting and mostly I would say its right on but there a few red flags such as Moya the the way at 29 Queerey at 33 and Donald Young at 49...maybe your formula is not perfect yet and needs some tweaking, still very informative and interesting what does your formula factor in, would you mind me asking what exactly your formula is?
 

tacou

G.O.A.T.
why is there a formula? wouldn't it make more sense to just take the points they earn on the given surface?
 

JBIMH

Rookie
yeah sorry about querrey my spreadsheet added up a few numbers incorrectly and i'm currently adjusting it

i probably should have checked before i posted it
 

JBIMH

Rookie
Gasquet's 18 on Hard? Where does he get all his points?

he's that low because the two tournaments he recieves the most points from are wimbledon (grass) and the Paris masters (carpet), and he doesn't play many non masters or majors hard court tournaments just 4 in the past year
 

JBIMH

Rookie
Very interesting and mostly I would say its right on but there a few red flags such as Moya the the way at 29 Queerey at 33 and Donald Young at 49...maybe your formula is not perfect yet and needs some tweaking, still very informative and interesting what does your formula factor in, would you mind me asking what exactly your formula is?

sure, its rather simple.

For the hard court i take the players top 12 tournaments (based off the ATP best 18 tournaments minus the two slams and 4 masters series tournies not on hard courts). I take the atp points from the past year's play as would normally be taken in to account. If a player missed a masters series tournament because his ranking was not high enough, i substitute another "normal" tournament's points in its place.


The rest is easier shown by example:

Player USO 2007 AO 2008 IW 2007 Miami 2007 Canada 2007 Cincy 2007
James Blake 150 250 35 5 35 350

Madrid 2007 5 Remaining Non-Masters Tournaments Total
5 200 120 120 100 75 1445

Now Blake's is more simple than normal since his present results outweigh any points he would receive from his past tournaments. I use a modifier depending on the number of tournaments the player has played on the surface over the time period being considered to determine how many points the player receives for those past results. If a player receives enough points from one of these past tournaments then those points are placed in the non-master tournament section.

As a said rather simple. The problem with it is that it favors lower ranked players that would normally lose in the first round of a masters by enabling them to add points that they received from playing in a lower atp tournament or challengers. Also, good players that only play a few tournaments a year on hard courts are naturally hurt but i tried to counteract this by giving them a better modifier value on past tournaments. Its not perfect by any stretch but i gives you a rough view of how a player has preformed lately on a specific surface

the clay court rankings are roughly the same
 
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megar

New User
It is so interesting .According to this ,Ferrer seems to perform better on Hard court than clay .He is ranked no.4 on hard court and ranked no.8 on clay .It is quite funny while many people think he is a clay specialist .
 

JBIMH

Rookie
After much toil here are the grass court rankings. Since there are far fewer grass court tournaments than hard court or clay, I had to factor in past tournaments more prominently. Also, I remembered Jonas Bjorkman's fairy tale run to the Wimbledon semis a year and a half ago but I had no idea he has been one of the best grass court players the last two years. He's made to the semi's and the 4th round in Wimbledon, and reached the finals and semis in two of the grass warm up tournaments.

http://insomnia-integrity.blogspot.com/
 

noeledmonds

Professional
Thanks JBIMH for the surface specific rankings. I have been in favour of using surface specific rankings at all tournaments for some time. Wimbledon is currently the only tournament to use any sort of surface specific rankings. Your rankings reinforce how unfair potencial draws can be.

Take Roddick for example. Drawing him on clay compared to grass is so massively different, as reflected by your rankings, but not by the seedings at the tournament which will ge the same (except at Wimbledon).

In relation to your grass court rankings the position of Bjorkman within the top 10 is very interesting. This rather suggests that S&V tennis can be applied succesfully to grass (even by an ageing doubles player). It also suggests that grass court compeition lacks depth at the moment. Bjorkman has achieved more success in singles on grass in the last few years than at almost any other point in his career. Given his age this really should not be the case.
 

GOD_BLESS_RAFA

Semi-Pro
Very interesting! I will keep visiting your blog :)

I did nt expect to see Nadal in the top 5 of ATP hardcourts ;)
 
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aceroberts13

Professional
Very interesting! I will keep visiting your blog :)

I did nt expect to see Nadal in the top 5 of ATP hardcourts ;)

Why not? He is the number two player in the world. He didn't get there by just being the best clay courter in the world. You gotta remember he is creeping up on Fed at Wimbledon now too! :)
 

JBIMH

Rookie
Why not? He is the number two player in the world. He didn't get there by just being the best clay courter in the world. You gotta remember he is creeping up on Fed at Wimbledon now too! :)

very true, he's been very consistent on hard reaching the semis at austrlia, quarters in the US, winning Indian wells, reaching the semis in canada and quarters in miami, he hasn't been dominant like he is on clay but he puts up regular results
 

boredone3456

G.O.A.T.
While they are interesting...I rather the way it is done now. To me wimbledon using surface specific seeding is sort of outdated since the grass court season lasts about a month and there is very little to base it on. it would give unfair weighing in my opinion.
 
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