Cream/Xcel - Element/Xcel

[beltsman]

I am looking at either Cream/Xcel or Element/Xcel for the following frames (I'm thinking strung around 48/52).

Pure Strike 2017 16x19 (Project One7)
Pure Drive 2018
Super-G 8/V-Sense 8 300/315

Previously, I played with mainly FB of Hyper-G 16 or 17. What I am looking for: Lower launch angle, more power, more consistent stringbed, but with "poly" levels of spin to keep the ball in the court (but not insane spin like shaped polys provide).

My FB Hyper-G works well with a fast RHS, but I'd like a setup that works better with slower RHS, since I have longer and not super whippy strokes.

Does anyone have thoughts on these setups for my racquets/parameters? Thanks!

*Note I'm open to other strings than Xcel, but I happen to have a few sets laying around and I think it would fit the bill.

 

[CopolyX]

Not many multis have floated my boat.
But I would have to say. Client choices; Xcel is one that is up there for multis.
Note: Xcel and Origin use polyamide
Lots of Multis use PU as a binder.
Just pointing this out so if you like a multi, find out the content for reference. To me, they somewhat similar feels pertaining to content used..

Thou overall most of my hybrid requests for 3.5 +> are n. gut and a round copoly. Good 40% and climbing...
Another 40% plus are straight coployers
Remaining goes to..
Next is Origin (growing full sets too) and a copoly. Very nice mix of players and this one has been growing.
Lower calls (3.5) for... they dont need or ask for spin - they just want comfort and some durability(no breaks)
Weiss Canon Element 500 ( full bed or) and a Copoly
Then Xcel , A sync gut, G AK Pro CX, NXT, X-One, Full bed or with a copoly are pretty much tied to frequent flyers

Cream is great. I have a few sticks with cream and n. gut. used a lot for my practice sessions & coaching.
Other soft copolys are H Lynx
And Laserfibre Vorso (thou it is shaped)

So I say try it...Cream & Xcel..
Hell it is fun man...dive in and try them...
Element is creeping up to a med stiff string..I have not had good luck with it, but that is not to say it wouldn't work for you... so hey it may really rock for you..
Let us know..

 

[beltsman]

Not many multis have floated my boat.
But I would have to say. Client choices; Xcel is one that is up there for multis.
Note: Xcel and Origin use polyamide
Lots of Multis use PU as a binder.
Just pointing this out so if you like a multi, find out the content for reference. To me, they somewhat similar feels pertaining to content used..

Thou overall most of my hybrid requests for 3.5 +> are n. gut and a round copoly. Good 40% and climbing...
Another 40% plus are straight coployers
Remaining goes to..
Next is Origin (growing full sets too) and a copoly. Very nice mix of players and this one has been growing.
Lower calls (3.5) for... they dont need or ask for spin - they just want comfort and some durability(no breaks)
Weiss Canon Element 500 ( full bed or) and a Copoly
Then Xcel , A sync gut, G AK Pro CX, NXT, X-One, Full bed or with a copoly are pretty much tied to frequent flyers

Cream is great. I have a few sticks with cream and n. gut. used a lot for my practice sessions & coaching.
Other soft copolys are H Lynx
And Laserfibre Vorso (thou it is shaped)

So I say try it...Cream & Xcel..
Hell it is fun man...dive in and try them...
Element is creeping up to a med stiff string..I have not had good luck with it, but that is not to say it wouldn't work for you... so hey it may really rock for you..
Let us know..

Thanks!

 

[Traffic]

Have you tried Nat gut/poly?
If you haven't, I highly recommend ngut/Cream. I really enjoyed playing with VS Team/Cream.
Good power, comfortable, great feel, lots of spin, good longevity.

I'm playing Velocity/Cream right now because it actually hits lower launch angle than ngut/Cream and has slightly less power (and less spin.) It's helping me working on longer strokes. I found that with ngut/Cream, I could get away with short strokes (bad technique) and still get the ball in play. So maybe I'll save this setup for when I can improve my base technique a little more.

I have a set of KLIP Legend 16 ready to try again in the spring. I found Legend 17 a bit more powerful than the VS 17.

 

[MisterP]

Element is going to drop tension within 5 hours. If you're planning on breaking the Xcel within that timeframe, I'm sure it will be nice. Otherwise, I'd try the Cream.

 

[beltsman]

Have you tried Nat gut/poly?
If you haven't, I highly recommend ngut/Cream. I really enjoyed playing with VS Team/Cream.
Good power, comfortable, great feel, lots of spin, good longevity.

I'm playing Velocity/Cream right now because it actually hits lower launch angle than ngut/Cream and has slightly less power (and less spin.) It's helping me working on longer strokes. I found that with ngut/Cream, I could get away with short strokes (bad technique) and still get the ball in play. So maybe I'll save this setup for when I can improve my base technique a little more.

I have a set of KLIP Legend 16 ready to try again in the spring. I found Legend 17 a bit more powerful than the VS 17.

Yes I played klipp Ng/cream and it was okay, not great. Nice feel but a bit spongy and wasn't all that powerful for me - high launch angle but no real bite to rip the ball back down.

 

[beltsman]

Element is going to drop tension within 5 hours. If you're planning on breaking the Xcel within that timeframe, I'm sure it will be nice. Otherwise, I'd try the Cream.

Element 16L has a tension loss % of 33% though, which is quite good - only a bit more than Cream.

What gauge are you talking about? 16 has 44% iirc.

 

[MisterP]

Element 16L has a tension loss % of 33% though, which is quite good - only a bit more than Cream.

What gauge are you talking about? 16 has 44% iirc.

You're right. It was 16 I played with. Pretty good string for about 4 hours. The new one - Element Rough 16 is the best string I've ever hit with for the first 4 hours. Then it's a mess.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I am looking at either Cream/Xcel or Element/Xcel for the following frames (I'm thinking strung around 48/52).

Pure Strike 2017 16x19 (Project One7)
Pure Drive 2018
Super-G 8/V-Sense 8 300/315

Previously, I played with mainly FB of Hyper-G 16 or 17. What I am looking for: Lower launch angle, more power, more consistent stringbed, but with "poly" levels of spin to keep the ball in the court (but not insane spin like shaped polys provide).

My FB Hyper-G works well with a fast RHS, but I'd like a setup that works better with slower RHS, since I have longer and not super whippy strokes.

Does anyone have thoughts on these setups for my racquets/parameters? Thanks!

*Note I'm open to other strings than Xcel, but I happen to have a few sets laying around and I think it would fit the bill.

I came to the conclusion the strings that provide max spin will never be the strings that have the best touch or comfort. I found Gut/cream ... and even velocity/cream clo, so you may very well require fb shaped poly for your spin preferences.

One thought ... have you tried a shaped poly/cream type setup. Sounds like you want max spin and max power, so I would assume at low tension. I have never hit zx, but everyone says it's powerful. Maybe shaped poly/zx?

Welcome to "no string" does it all, always a tradeoff. If max spin is at the top of your list, work from there.

My past TE makes me work from the left, your max spin preference has you working from the right.

fb gut ..……....…......................................................................... fb shaped poly

 

[beltsman]

I came to the conclusion the strings that provide max spin will never be the strings that have the best touch or comfort. I found Gut/cream ... and even velocity/cream clo, so you may very well require fb shaped poly for your spin preferences.

One thought ... have you tried a shaped poly/cream type setup. Sounds like you want max spin and max power, so I would assume at low tension. I have never hit zx, but everyone says it's powerful. Maybe shaped poly/zx?

Welcome to "no string" does it all, always a tradeoff. If max spin is at the top of your list, work from there.

I haven't thought about a shaped poly and Cream. Seems like it might be too low powered for what I want. Plus, I want a lower launch angle - shaped polys tend to have higher launch angles.

I don't want max spin, I just want enough spin to keep the ball in the court, but on a flatter trajectory than my Hyper-G (which rockets balls to the moon).

I'll look into ZX but I think that requires special care/attention that may be beyond my capabilities.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I haven't thought about a shaped poly and Cream. Seems like it might be too low powered for what I want. Plus, I want a lower launch angle - shaped polys tend to have higher launch angles.

I don't want max spin, I just want enough spin to keep the ball in the court, but on a flatter trajectory than my Hyper-G (which rockets balls to the moon).

I'll look into ZX but I think that requires special care/attention that may be beyond my capabilities.

I take my racquets to a stringer, so I won't risk zx breaking during his stringing. I keep thinking they will tweak the formula to fix the fragility ... and maybe sell a pre-stretched zx.

"I don't want max spin"

Are you sure? Gut/cream is in the max spin ballpark. Trust me ... I miss fb RPM on some shots, but luckily not on my normal rally ball.

 

[beltsman]

I take my racquets to a stringer, so I won't risk zx breaking during his stringing. I keep thinking they will tweak the formula to fix the fragility ... and maybe sell a pre-stretched zx.

"I don't want max spin"

Are you sure? Gut/cream is in the max spin ballpark. Trust me ... I miss fb RPM on some shots, but luckily not on my normal rally ball.

NGut/Cream gives me too high of a launch angle and feels too spongy for me. I've gotten "max spin" w/ Hyper-G and Cyclone 19 but I'm not a fan.

 

[g4driver]

*Note I'm open to other strings than Xcel, but I happen to have a few sets laying around and I think it would fit the bill.

If you like multis that feel gummy, Excel is perfect. [emoji102]. Not a fan personally. [emoji107] Strung it many times for clients who like it, but I can't use it as a cross with any poly. The string bed just feels like goo. Excel is the mulit equivalent of molasses IMO. Origin has the same dead gummy feel to me. Neither feel anything like the crisp multis like Technifibre's X-1, HDX Tour, or Wilson NXT Control

I have reels of Origin in both Black and Red and have clients who like Origin also, but like Excel, I can't use it. You are the only person that it has to like what you are using. Different strokes for different folks.

On the other hand, Volkl V-Torque Tour 1.30mm mains / Head Hawk 1.25mm crosses in a Pure Aero is well, massive spin. [emoji848] It isn't terribly stiff, but it isn't Cream/HDX Tour buttery soft.

 

[ByeByePoly]

If you like multis that feel gummy, Excel is perfect. [emoji102]. Not a fan personally. [emoji107] Strung it many times for clients who like it, but I can't use it as a cross with any poly. The string bed just feels like goo. Excel is the mulit equivalent of molasses IMO. Origin has the same dead gummy feel to me. Neither feel anything like the crisp multis like Technifibre's X-1, HDX Tour, or Wilson NXT Control

I have reels of Origin in both Black and Red and have clients who like Origin also, but like Excel, I can't use it. You are the only person that it has to like what you are using. Different strokes for different folks.

On the other hand, Volkl V-Torque Tour 1.30mm mains / Head Hawk 1.25mm crosses in a Pure Aero is well, massive spin. [emoji848] It isn't terribly stiff, but it isn't Cream/HDX Tour buttery soft.

I don't remember origin feeling gummy, but powerful with no spin ... Yes. @Dartagnan64 got good spin out of origin/velocity. I am curious about orgin/velocity because I liked the feel of origin, but at origin $21 don't think I will test it.

 

[beltsman]

If you like multis that feel gummy, Excel is perfect. [emoji102]. Not a fan personally. [emoji107] Strung it many times for clients who like it, but I can't use it as a cross with any poly. The string bed just feels like goo. Excel is the mulit equivalent of molasses IMO. Origin has the same dead gummy feel to me. Neither feel anything like the crisp multis like Technifibre's X-1, HDX Tour, or Wilson NXT Control

I have reels of Origin in both Black and Red and have clients who like Origin also, but like Excel, I can't use it. You are the only person that it has to like what you are using. Different strokes for different folks.

On the other hand, Volkl V-Torque Tour 1.30mm mains / Head Hawk 1.25mm crosses in a Pure Aero is well, massive spin. [emoji848] It isn't terribly stiff, but it isn't Cream/HDX Tour buttery soft.

Good info. Besides feel, what is the main difference between Xcel/Origin and crisper multis? Power? Control? Spin?

 

[g4driver]

I don't remember origin feeling gummy, but powerful with no spin ... Yes. @Dartagnan64 got good spin out of origin/velocity. I am curious about orgin/velocity because I liked the feel of origin, but at origin $21 don't think I will test it.

Origin doesn't feel as gummy as Excel, but it certainly feels dead and awful to me as a main with Head Hawk crosses. Had I payed $21 a pack for it, I might have hit with it more than twice, but I bought it by the reel for $185 shipped, so I got the price per 40" down to $11.21.

I hit "two sets" with Origin 1.30 Mains / Head Hawk 1.25mm crosses, my first and last. [emoji90] Yep, one set was enough to know she wasn't my type. It was cut out the next day.

 

[g4driver]

Good info. Besides feel, what is the main difference between Xcel/Origin and crisper multis? Power? Control? Spin?

When you hit with Excel as a full bed, main or as a cross, you will fully understand how it differs from X1, and HDX Tour. I can feel the goo of Excel as a cross. To me it feels like goo. X1 and HDX Tour don't feel like goo. Sorry not a fan of goo. Origin feels completely dead to me. No feel to me.

I am a fan of Cyclone Tour, Cyclone, V-Tourque Tour for full beds of poly. When playing gut, I like old formula Wilson "Made in France", Lux Gut, with Head Hawk 1.25mm crosses. And yes, I like Cream / HDX Tour. Everyone has different likes and dislikes. I hate Lux 4G and other very stiff polys and I hate gummy or dead multis. Head Hawk is a dead poly, but it works great with a powerful main like Natural Gut. So many permutations, so many outcomes.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Origin doesn't feel as gummy as Excel, but it certainly feels dead and awful to me as a main with Head Hawk crosses. Had I payed $21 a pack for it, I might have hit with it more than twice, but I bought it by the reel for $185 shipped, so I got the price per 40" down to $11.21.

I hit "two sets" with Origin 1.30 Mains / Head Hawk 1.25mm crosses, my first and last. [emoji90] Yep, one set was enough to know she wasn't my type. It was cut out the next day.

How the heck did you get Origin to feel dead? I couldn't keep fb red origin 1.30 @55 in the court. It also put red stripes on the ball. Yeah ... cutting out $21 origin after two hits sucked ... but not as bad as cutting out gut in good shape. I was string speed dating in spring last year, after the RPM divorce due to elbow Irreconcilable differences. I cut out fb cream after 6 hours (zero notching and no loss of tension), and PPC about 6 hours. Got to Velocity, and couldn't cut her.

 

[g4driver]

How the heck did you get Origin to feel dead? I couldn't keep fb red origin 1.30 @55 in the court. It also put red stripes on the ball. Yeah ... cutting out $21 origin after two hits sucked ... but not as bad as cutting out gut in good shape. I was string speed dating in spring last year, after the RPM divorce due to elbow Irreconcilable differences. I cut out fb cream after 6 hours (zero notching and no loss of tension), and PPC about 6 hours. Got to Velocity, and couldn't cut her.

I strung it in the mains of a 16x18 Prince Textreme Warrior 100 with Head Hawk 1.25mm crosses and it was awful.

It didn't get it to feel dead, it comes that way. [emoji102]

 

[beltsman]

When you hit with Excel as a full bed, main or as a cross, you will fully understand how it differs from X1, and HDX Tour. I can feel the goo of Excel as a cross. To me it feels like goo. X1 and HDX Tour don't feel like goo. Sorry not a fan of goo. Origin feels completely dead to me. No feel to me.

I am a fan of Cyclone Tour, Cyclone, V-Tourque Tour for full beds of poly. When playing gut, I like old formula Wilson "Made in France", Lux Gut, with Head Hawk 1.25mm crosses. And yes, I like Cream / HDX Tour. Everyone has different likes and dislikes. I hate Lux 4G and other very stiff polys and I hate gummy or dead multis. Head Hawk is a dead poly, but it works great with a powerful main like Natural Gut. So many permutations, so many outcomes.

As a cross though, gummy might be a good fit with a stiffer poly main, no?

 

[g4driver]

As a cross though, gummy might be a good fit with a stiffer poly main, no?

Not for me.

I don't like either of those two menu items. Stiffer polys or gummy mains. [emoji113]

 

[ByeByePoly]

When you hit with Excel as a full bed, main or as a cross, you will fully understand how it differs from X1, and HDX Tour. I can feel the goo of Excel as a cross. To me it feels like goo. X1 and HDX Tour don't feel like goo. Sorry not a fan of goo. Origin feels completely dead to me. No feel to me.

I am a fan of Cyclone Tour, Cyclone, V-Tourque Tour for full beds of poly. When playing gut, I like old formula Wilson "Made in France", Lux Gut, with Head Hawk 1.25mm crosses. And yes, I like Cream / HDX Tour. Everyone has different likes and dislikes. I hate Lux 4G and other very stiff polys and I hate gummy or dead multis. Head Hawk is a dead poly, but it works great with a powerful main like Natural Gut. So many permutations, so many outcomes.

When I could finally hit balls fall 2016 I string my old Yonex RDIS 200 with fb 15g xcel at mid-tension. That was a very forgiving setup, and I found good control with it. I considered just sticking with that setup ... I had played some of my best baseline tennis with the RDIS 200 (lite version ... 11.1 oz) in the past (but with RPM). Flash forward to ball machine session in Spring 2017. I had my V1 Pros w/fb Velocity by then. I remembered I still had the RDIS in my bag still strung with xcel, so I pulled it out to compare to v1 pros. LOL ... that is why it's good to experiment with racquets and strings. The v1 w/velocity 68 RA was so much better for me it wasn't even close.

Does the black origin also mark the tennis balls?

 

[Notirouswithag]

I haven't thought about a shaped poly and Cream. Seems like it might be too low powered for what I want. Plus, I want a lower launch angle - shaped polys tend to have higher launch angles.

I don't want max spin, I just want enough spin to keep the ball in the court, but on a flatter trajectory than my Hyper-G (which rockets balls to the moon).

I'll look into ZX but I think that requires special care/attention that may be beyond my capabilities.

my go to is LUxilon 4g rough/ cream in 16g/17g and i find a great balance bwetween the two in terms of power. THe lower launch angle is definatley there. i usually string 4g rough at 53/ Cream 53 or 55 depending on if i want a bit more power

 

[beltsman]

When I could finally hit balls fall 2016 I string my old Yonex RDIS 200 with fb 15g xcel at mid-tension. That was a very forgiving setup, and I found good control with it. I considered just sticking with that setup ... I had played some of my best baseline tennis with the RDIS 200 (lite version ... 11.1 oz) in the past (but with RPM). Flash forward to ball machine session in Spring 2017. I had my V1 Pros w/fb Velocity by then. I remembered I still had the RDIS in my bag still strung with xcel, so I pulled it out to compare to v1 pros. LOL ... that is why it's good to experiment with racquets and strings. The v1 w/velocity 68 RA was so much better for me it wasn't even close.

Does the black origin also mark the tennis balls?

What plays so much different from the Xcel to the Velocity?

 

[ByeByePoly]

What plays so much different from the Xcel to the Velocity?

I haven't played with a ton of multis, but my based on my experience and what I have read here:

Most traditional multis are trying to be gut. I am not looking for that ... I am looking for poly-like play from an arm friendly nylon. I started with multi ... If I didn't find it, would have looked at syn gut.

Poly-like:
Low to mid power
Control
Spin
Doesn't fray
Doesn't break quick
Doesn't go mushy

You just lost most multis. Excel frays, probably goes mushy ... seemed moderate power at least in 15g in flexy racquet. Velocity slick with much more spin then Xcel.

To me, velocity and hdx are more poly-like ... still think that is weird for a multi. Xcel feels softer than Velocity ... although not necessarily more forgiving. I hit xcel with elbow sore, and by velocity was pretty much healed ... so ???.

Velocity should provide a better poly-like cross than xcel ... I don't see how a naturally fraying multi holds up to a poly main. Look what @g4driver is doing to hdx ... and it has to be more durable than xcel.

 

[g4driver]

Does the black origin also mark the tennis balls?

No. No markings from Black or Red Origin

 

[beltsman]

Thoughts on this chart? What changes would you make?

 

[g4driver]

Thoughts on this chart? What changes would you make?

Delete the rows with Excel and Origin in your chart.

Add a ++ to X1 and HDX Tour on Crispness

Give a ++ to Velocity for Power, and give X1 and HDX Tour a +. But deleting the first two rows pretty much takes care of things.

HDX Tour and X1 both fray. All of them break. Pick one the remaining three strings. [emoji6]

 

[ByeByePoly]

Thoughts on this chart? What changes would you make?

Good chart, not a bad way to go about it except some of it is subjective. For example, what is your definition of "crispness".

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/crisp-string-vocabulary.590646/

Using @esgee48 's definition of crispness: how much you feel outside the sweet spot ... Crisp strings give you feedback (jarring) when you miss sweet spot

I haven't hit x1. Based on comments here about x1 and my hit with origin, I would just put them in a box by themselves ... Max power.

I would put velocity and xcel in the max muted box ... Opposite of crisp.

IMO, since you are used to poly control, I think cream, velocity and hdx are in their own group.

Power from high to low:
HDX
Velocity
Cream

Crisp from high to low:
Cream
HDX
Velocity

I felt the poly in cream on mishits. I felt it in HDX until it broke in (couple hours). Never felt anything with velocity ... Only know you hit the ball because it changes directions back to opponent.

Maybe you should give @g4driver 's setup a try. I found fb cream @50 to pretty good power ... So you could experiment with cream/hdx tensions. If you went cream/velocity ... 50/52 ... Or maybe your 48/52. I never played velocity below 52# LO ... so can't comment on velocity at lower tensions. My guess is HDX at 52 would be good power.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Delete the rows with Excel and Origin in your chart.

Add a ++ to X1 and HDX Tour on Crispness

Give a ++ to Velocity for Power, and give X1 and HDX Tour a +. But deleting the first two rows pretty much takes care of things.

HDX Tour and X1 both fray. All of them break. Pick one the remaining three strings. [emoji6]

I really don't want to hear that hdx frays. It hasn't yet with me after 6.5 hours. Are you just talking cross fuzzing with cream? I have messed up buying 6 sets if it frays much. That said, it looks good on notching. Still just light notching. I take note of main notches when it's difficult to pull cross out of main notch with fingers. It looks like HDX will notch slower than Velocity ... but next 2-4 hours will tell. Man ... the tension retention is great. It has stayed at 50.6ish for the last 5.5 hours of hitting.

I was with you on all your comments to beltsman except saying velocity is more powerful than hdx. For me, fresh hdx 55 was more powerful than v 52. Now after a couple hdx hits, it settled about the same power v 52 settled at. So hdx dt 50.6 about same power as v dt 47ish.

 

[g4driver]

Seriously these are just personally preferences for me. I am certain plenty of players better than me like Excel and Origin.

My .02 Don't worry what others like. If you like a string setup that is all that truly matters.

One 4.0 guy left his Excel setup in his Pure Aero for Cream / HDX Tour. It feels incredibly soft to me. And prefer it over full poly in matches than don't go on my record.

For USTA play, that V-Torque Tour 1.30mm mains / Head Hawk 1.25mm crosses is a very spinny setup that allows me to swing out and keep the ball in the court. It takes a more effort and restraint with the Cream / HDX Tour setup , but I like to practice with it.

If I can hit heavy spin with Cream / HDX Tour, a full poly setup makes that even easier. The Cream / HDX Tour feels like Gut/ poly which is great for my arm and a pleasure to hit with on damp courts.

 

[beltsman]

Finished stringing my PS 17 with Element/Xcel at 44/49. I will try to take it for a hit tomorrow. It feels powerful!

 

[beltsman]

I had my first hit with it yesterday. I only hit against the wall and a few serves. It was cold.

Impressions: Way more spin than I was expecting! Feel was super soft. Power seemed good. Launch angle is definitely much, much lower than what I'm used to. So far, so good.