Does Alcaraz have an 'old-school' or 'modern' forehand?

[thomasferrett]

At the backswing, his racket is on edge (hitting side of strings facing towards his right) whereas players with a modern forehand will have a 'pat-the-dog' backswing where the hitting side of the strings is facing the ground in the backswing.

However, he has a 'kind of' windshield-wiper finish on the follow-through - the hitting side of his strings would be facing the back fence during most of the follow-through except he also flexes his wrist immediately after contact - which causes the hitting side of his strings to end up facing the ground during the follow-through.

Probably the closest technical comparison would be the Tsitsipas forehand - which also has a non-pat-the-dog backswing combined with a straight arm contact point and a windshield-wiper follow-through.

Rublev's forehand is somewhat similar but has a traditional rather than windshield-wiper follow-through...

What are the technical pro's and con's of a swing style such as this?

 

[ollinger]

What does it matter? He'll never win a slam or masters event.

 

[happyandbob]

What does it matter? He'll never win a slam or masters event.

Lol. Thanks for the morning chuckle!

 

[ronalditop]

Old school.

 

[travlerajm]

Carlos is retro and it’s a good thing for tennis.

 

[tex123]

At the backswing, his racket is on edge (hitting side of strings facing towards his right) whereas players with a modern forehand will have a 'pat-the-dog' backswing where the hitting side of the strings is facing the ground in the backswing.

However, he has a 'kind of' windshield-wiper finish on the follow-through - the hitting side of his strings would be facing the back fence during most of the follow-through except he also flexes his wrist immediately after contact - which causes the hitting side of his strings to end up facing the ground during the follow-through.

Probably the closest technical comparison would be the Tsitsipas forehand - which also has a non-pat-the-dog backswing combined with a straight arm contact point and a windshield-wiper follow-through.

Rublev's forehand is somewhat similar but has a traditional rather than windshield-wiper follow-through...

What are the technical pro's and con's of a swing style such as this?

He does not do pat-the-dog. But modern forehand does not stipulate pat-the-dog. In his prep, he points the racket tip at his opponent (Kyrgios, Sock, Thiem style) to get the racket to whip more. His racket kind of drops on edge and he use a straight arm in the swing like Nadal and Federer. His head stays still until the swing is complete like Nadal and Fed. Perhaps the most leverage he gets is from his foot positioning and movement. He maximises that energy from ground up. He's taken the best bits of all forehands from different players and made his own.

It is a joy to watch.

 

[Tennfan123]

He has Charlie's forehand.

 

[3loudboys]

Straight arm extension on contact and follow through is epic. Take back is compact and the weight transfer is literally explosive.

@zill - thoughts on the Alcatron forehand?

 

[zill]

Straight arm extension on contact and follow through is epic. Take back is compact and the weight transfer is literally explosive.

@zill - thoughts on the Alcatron forehand?

Modern fh. As good as it gets imo.

 

[3loudboys]

Modern fh. As good as it gets imo.

Agreed - none better at the moment. Hall of Fame shot already.

 

[Zoid]

I think the closest comparison is actually Delpo.

Obviously Carlos starts with a higher elbow and more inverted racquet head. But what happens out the back is much like the Tower of Tandil. Strings not closed (no pat the dog) and there is a reduction in the "flip" as the racquet head isn't much outside the line of the hands (when he has time), followed by a straight arm extension. Basically Carlos is "flipping" the racquet end over end, rather than "around" - to use an analogy; he's generating racquet head speed on a Ferris wheel rather than a merry-go-round.

Delpo

Carlos

This lack of flip is something I think helps timing. A reduced flip is seen in forehands like Nalbandian, Federer 04-07, Djokovic, Nadal 10'/13' etc.

 

[zill]

I think the closest comparison is actually Delpo.

Obviously Carlos starts with a higher elbow and more inverted racquet head. But what happens out the back is much like the Tower of Tandil. Strings not closed (no pat the dog) and there is a reduction in the "flip" as the racquet head isn't much outside the line of the hands (when he has time), followed by a straight arm extension. Basically Carlos is "flipping" the racquet end over end, rather than "around" - to use an analogy; he's generating racquet head speed on a Ferris wheel rather than a merry-go-round.

Delpo

Carlos

This lack of flip is something I think helps timing. A reduced flip is seen in forehands like Nalbandian, Federer 04-07, Djokovic, Nadal 10'/13' etc.

Bit of all three Fed, Nadal, Del Po. his learnt from the best.

 

[norcal]

Love the slow mo, truly a beautiful shot.

 

[3loudboys]

Love the slow mo, truly a beautiful shot.

The side view lets you see how long the stroke is and how he uses his legs and body.

 

[Jonesy]

I think the closest comparison is actually Delpo.

Obviously Carlos starts with a higher elbow and more inverted racquet head. But what happens out the back is much like the Tower of Tandil. Strings not closed (no pat the dog) and there is a reduction in the "flip" as the racquet head isn't much outside the line of the hands (when he has time), followed by a straight arm extension. Basically Carlos is "flipping" the racquet end over end, rather than "around" - to use an analogy; he's generating racquet head speed on a Ferris wheel rather than a merry-go-round.

Delpo

Carlos

This lack of flip is something I think helps timing. A reduced flip is seen in forehands like Nalbandian, Federer 04-07, Djokovic, Nadal 10'/13' etc.

I saw some YT guru coach say Alcaraz is a mix between modern and next gen FHs. Do you agree?

Also, it seems Alcaraz is one of the few to use a lighter racket even as an adult of the next gens (Fritz too), is there any upside to that on the pro tour?

 

[L4S10s]

next-gen

doesn't reach the pat the dog position behind the body ala djokovic. whips the ball from the side.

 

[Picmun]

What does it matter? He'll never win a slam or masters event.

Or beat Djoke and Nadal back to back.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Definitely modern, but the initial take back with the tip pointing forward is something many coach/pundits note as a characteristic of the next gen forehand, though still not like Tiafoe or Kyrgios who are template next gen types.

 

[Zoid]

I saw some YT guru coach say Alcaraz is a mix between modern and next gen FHs. Do you agree?

Also, it seems Alcaraz is one of the few to use a lighter racket even as an adult of the next gens (Fritz too), is there any upside to that on the pro tour?

depends what you classify as nextgen. He starts with an inverted racquet head, so I'd say that is a Nextgen element. But he doesn't really have the racquet to the outside as much compared to players like Norrie/Tiafoe/Zverev/Hurkacz etc. He finds more of a modern position before unloading, so in that sense it is kind of blend.

As for the racquet, I have just seen numbers/speculation and am waiting until someone gets an actual match-used stick in their hands to verify, but all accounts suggest it is light. As for fritz, while he uses a 'light' frame in terms of static weight, the swingweight is reportedly in the 350s, so a lot of lead under the bumperguard and I think quite a head heavy set up ala Moya/Nadal. So a beast of a stick to swing.

 

[Jonesy]

depends what you classify as nextgen. He starts with an inverted racquet head, so I'd say that is a Nextgen element. But he doesn't really have the racquet to the outside as much compared to players like Norrie/Tiafoe/Zverev/Hurkacz etc. He finds more of a modern position before unloading, so in that sense it is kind of blend.

As for the racquet, I have just seen numbers/speculation and am waiting until someone gets an actual match-used stick in their hands to verify, but all accounts suggest it is light. As for fritz, while he uses a 'light' frame in terms of static weight, the swingweight is reportedly in the 350s, so a lot of lead under the bumperguard and I think quite a head heavy set up ala Moya/Nadal. So a beast of a stick to swing.

Nice, didn't know that about Fritz. Alcaraz being the unexplainable exception is indeed intriguing considering his style of play with huge amount of winners and UE.

Rune also uses a similar racket and have a powerful FH but apparently has more weight added to the frame.

 

[Hawks9451]

What does it matter? He'll never win a slam or masters event.

9headed, GOATed, 5D statement of semifact

 

[Picmun]

Or beat Djoke and Nadal back to back.

LOL ! How did you know whether I was being serious or ironic ? @ollinger and @MaxTennis.

 

[MiamiWeekendWarrior]

Modern. Possibly the best forehand on the tour right now. Looking at it closely it looks like he took the best parts of Fed and Nadal's forehands and combined them.

 

[Fabresque]

I think his forehand is the next step in tennis evolution. It isn’t pure next gen style like Kyrgios or Thiem, it’s a newer more effective way to rip a ball. Wu Yibing has this forehand too and it’s absolute hell to play against.