Donnay Discrepancy

[louis netman]

I recently decided to demo four Donnay “99” frames due to their head-size, thin-beams and relative flexibility as stated on TW. I’m accustomed to modifying my frames, so I decided to take 'em all out for a spin to find the one that felt “right” upon contact, regardless of weight and balance – According to the TW website the flexibility ratings are as follows: Platinum - 61, Gold - 63 , Silver - 62 and Black - 64

The rackets arrived and the flex ratings printed on the frames were considerably stiffer (more than the 2 pts of difference due to stringing): Platinum - 70, Gold - 67 , Silver - 70 and Black – 64

I initially asked TW to ship me the demos strung with syn gut, but they all had poly in them. As I pondered the stiffness listed on the frames along with the polyester string-bed that rung the higher notes, my right arm began twinging and my wrist started hurting.

I called TW and told them that as an arm sufferer, I would not be able to demo these frames and if I did, there may be legal damages awarded to me for pain and suffering :wink:

The following day I decided to risk my health---Although the string-beds were stiff and dead, I discovered that the frames felt/played like the TW listed specs. Has anyone experienced this? Is this simply a misprint originating in the factory???

 

[spinovic]

I own a Silver (used to own 3), and they were as advertised. The weight and balance was spot on and the frame is very comfortable, feels great. Anything but stiff.

 

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

I found the weights and balance on mine to be exactly as advertised.

as for stiffness, does it actually say that on the frame somewhere? LOL, never even looked

However, I suspect the Platinum 99 is a little bit stiffer than advertised IMHO

I have also recently acquired a couple of Formula 100s that I was thinking of using fro a bit of dubs/coaching..

except, golly, what a nice frame!!!

just so easy to use!!!

probably stick with the Platinums for matchplay, but...

 

[louis netman]

as for stiffness, does it actually say that on the frame somewhere? LOL, never even looked

Yes, the number is listed on the frame. BTW, the numbers on the Donnay website are even different than both the TW numbers and the numbers printed on the frames. IMO, they play like the numbers on the TW site-- although I found the Black 102 to be very stiff for a 64RA.

 

[Don't Let It Bounce]

OP, I have noticed the same thing. It is too consistent across their lines to be a misprint, and it also isn't the usual case of the manufacturer listing unstrung stiffness and TW listing average strung (always lower) stiffness. In fact, some of the first discrepancies between the pre-release announced specs for the X-Series and the measurements TW provided after release were even more noticeable, and soon after that I noticed the specs listed on the Donnay site had quietly changed so that they were closer to what TW measured.

I don't know if Donnay is listing the target stiffness that it requests from the factory, or they are fudging stiffness ratings for marketing purposes (as is commonly done with head size), or their RDC machine is busted, or if they are measuring stiffness in a more complex/complete way and then translating that to the simple RDC number, or what. However, I *have* found the Donnay frames to be at least as arm-friendly, when using the TW specs, as other rackets with similar TW specs, so demo and enjoy!

 

[ChicagoJack]

Hi Louis,

Good to see you back. There's numerous overlapping issues here. The QC sticker is pretty accurate, Donnay website specs are not, TW specs are, flex drops 1-4 ra when strung, Flex tolerance for most brands is +- 3 or 4, solid core frames might be a bit tougher to produce consistently, the X series marks the brand re-launch and is the least consistent line, and solid core is more comfy than hollow imo.

1. TW specs are far more accurate than Donnay's website specs. Tennis warehouse specs represent an average of several frames plucked from inventory. The frames are strung and TW uses a Babolat RDC machine for testing. That's the industry gold standard.

2. When a brand publishes specs on the company website, this just represents an aim point they are trying to hit, may or may not hit as an average, and certainly don't hit every time. Having said that, it befuddles me that the one company with the cohones big enough to measure and mark every frame that rolls off the line, would have published weight and balance specs so far divorced from reality. Seems like all the lines are a bit heavier, and more head heavy than the website spec. It demonstrates a bold commitment to QC, yet a complete disregard for the observational abilities of any person capable of clicking a mouse.

3. (For Timbo) The factory codes are printed on the silver and black sticker right near the top of the handle, and are unstrung digits. Example: 315310675000 = 315 mass, 310 balance in mm, 67 flex, 5000 batch number.

4. When the racquet is strung, the flex can drop anywhere from 2-4 digits. Example: the most common sticker flex number for a Pro One 16x19 is 67 or 68, with 69 not all that unusual. TW has the average strung flex as 64.
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Donnay_Pro_One_97_16x19/descpageRCDONNAY-DPRO1.html

5. It's not uncommon for flex ratings to vary 3-4 points among racquets, but its more typical for 1-2 points. You can even get a different flex reading simply by flipping the racquet over. See thread below.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=466399

6. A somewhat intuitive, but completely unsupported theory of mine is that solid core frames are a bit more difficult to produce consistently. The upside to that, is the QC stickers allow one to hunt and pick out exactly what you are looking for. I purchased directly from Donnay, and was able to get 6 of the very rare 65 sticker flex frames. I had to wait 4 months, but I got em. So my P1's are probably anywhere from 61-63 ra strung.

7. I'm very comfort sensitive and tuned into feel, IMO The solid core construction creates a damp, sweet, muffled sort of impact sensation. The X series is a bit more raw feeling than the Dual Core's and Pro One's, but they all hit pretty sweet regardless of any and all digits.

By the way Louis, I'm still kicking myself I didn't buy all those Volkl Tour 10 Gen 1's you had for sale a few years ago. (Grrr)

Jack

 

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

3. (For Timbo) The factory codes are printed on the silver and black sticker right near the top of the handle, and are unstrung specs. Example: 315310675000 = 315 mass, 310 balance in mm, 67 flex, 5000 batch number.

Jack

Thanks Jack.. I have found the sticker of which you speak..

(well, I had seen it before, of course, but thanks for allowing me to understand it!)


oh, and I agree with regard to the solid core 'feel'

I have recently acquired some Formula 100s and I am amazed at the feel from what ought really to be a stiff, harsh rocket launcher..

most impressive

still sticking with the 99s for matches though, ka BOOM!

 

[ChicagoJack]

Thanks Jack.. I have found the sticker of which you speak..

(well, I had seen it before, of course, but thanks for allowing me to understand it!)


oh, and I agree with regard to the solid core 'feel'

I have recently acquired some Fromula 100s and I am amazed at the feel from what ought really to be a stiif, harsh rocket launcer..

most impressive

still sticking with the 99s for matches though, ka BOOM!

Cool, happy to assist. I have a few x-99 Blues and a couple x-99 Blacks. Really special frames. I dont know what it is, they just feel so good through the air, look great too. I found a serving groove with both right away, almost never happens on a demo for me. If there is some kind of "magic" to a thin stick, these have it in spades.

 

[spinovic]

Interesting stuff. The numbers on my sticker are somewhat worn, but the stiffness # is clearly 70. No way that frame is that stiff. TW specs are definitely closer to the truth.

As best I can tell, my Silver 99 sticker says: 300318701409

 

[louis netman]

By the way Louis, I'm still kicking myself I didn't buy all those Volkl Tour 10 Gen 1's you had for sale a few years ago. (Grrr)

Jack

Hi Jack- Thanks for that very informative post. Indeed, those solid core frames are comfy. I may give the Pro One a try as I like more raw feeling frames-- Do you think I'd be able to get it to about 360g & 12+ pts HL?

BTW, I'm toying around with the T10 Gen 1s as we speak... I've got 18g in the butt, no grip (two over-grips) and trimmed bumpers... Great for S/V & CH-CH, but getting heavy at the baseline for me...

michael

 

[ChicagoJack]

Hi Jack- Thanks for that very informative post. Indeed, those solid core frames are comfy. I may give the Pro One a try as I like more raw feeling frames-- Do you think I'd be able to get it to about 360g & 12+ pts HL?

BTW, I'm toying around with the T10 Gen 1s as we speak... I've got 18g in the butt, no grip (two over-grips) and trimmed bumpers... Great for S/V & CH-CH, but getting heavy at the baseline for me...

michael

Hi Michael,

Yeah, if you just keep tail weighting a Pro One, that 360 grams and 12 or more points HL range is where you will eventually end up. My sticks are exactly 360 grams balanced at 30 cm strung (about 13 points HL) I got there with four 7" strips of book binder's tape on the pallet for a more rectangular shape, the +10 grams butt cap from the customization kit, **** Pro version leather grip, 1 Yonex SuperGrap Overgrip, and a vibration dampener.

I have my drilled my top bumpers, but that thing is pretty light already, (9.26 grams) and it shaved less than 1 gram. Far less than what you can shave off by trimming the Tour 10's with those cap style bumpers that wrap all the way around.

Worth noting, the Pro One is more muted feeling imo than the X-series. And the P1 is solid core from butt to tip, so there's no way to silicone the inside of the pallet. You'll have to use some combination of heavy grip, lead, or the +10 grams buttcap. That's one reason I ordered mine with L2 grips, gives me room to build up my custom shape, plus thicker, heavier leather grip.

-Jack

 

[TroutSc]

According to my sticker, my f100 is 67 stiffness, assuming that is accurate and unstrung rating, would I be even down a few points strung?

TW has it at 69 strung. Could I be looking at 64/65 on mine in reality? (im finding the f100 to be super arm friendly (more than my pb7 and psgt) using poly/multi.)

Also, as far as construction on the f100, is the frame solid throughout via injection or does it have dual core tube-type chambers? I noticed when i remove the butt cap, it is solid in the handle (foam-filled like), where as my babs and my volkl pb7 are hollow.

 

[louis netman]

My sticks are exactly 360 grams balanced at 30 cm strung (about 13 points HL)

Gee, Jack, I thought I was the only one with ridiculously extreme head-lightness. What's more, after rehabbing from my torn rotator cuff ten years ago, I was playing 16pts HL frames.

I recently experimented with lighter static and less HL and it just wasn't working for me... Phew, I guess I'm not so weird ;-)

 

[microphage]

Interesting stuff. The numbers on my sticker are somewhat worn, but the stiffness # is clearly 70. No way that frame is that stiff. TW specs are definitely closer to the truth.

As best I can tell, my Silver 99 sticker says: 300318701409

My silver 99 is 300317701111

Not all that diff from yours and it feels more like a low 60s stiffness

 

[TroutSc]

According to my sticker, my f100 is 67 stiffness, assuming that is accurate and unstrung rating, would I be even down a few points strung?

TW has it at 69 strung. Could I be looking at 64/65 on mine in reality? (im finding the f100 to be super arm friendly (more than my pb7 and psgt) using poly/multi.)

Also, as far as construction on the f100, is the frame solid throughout via injection or does it have dual core tube-type chambers? I noticed when i remove the butt cap, it is solid in the handle (foam-filled like), where as my babs and my volkl pb7 are hollow.

Sorry to self quote... But any insight on my stiffness rating according my sticker? Would I have a very soft f100?

 

[louis netman]

Sorry to self quote... But any insight on my stiffness rating according my sticker? Would I have a very soft f100?

I'm thinking just play the stick and judge for yourself. I'm getting my money back for the demos because the specs were waay off...

 

[ChicagoJack]

According to my sticker, my f100 is 67 stiffness, assuming that is accurate and unstrung rating, would I be even down a few points strung?TW has it at 69 strung. Could I be looking at 64/65 on mine in reality? (im finding the f100 to be super arm friendly (more than my pb7 and psgt) using poly/multi.)

Hi Trout -

Yeah, you have a "soft" F100. Your guess is pretty good ... if the unstrung specs are 67ra, then you are probably at 64/65 strung. That's also consistent with my Pro Ones where the average unstrung sticker spec is 67 or 68, and TW has the average strung spec at 64ra. In my opinion, you've got your self a real gem, I'd imagine a 64 ra F100 hits pretty sweet.

Also, as far as construction on the f100, is the frame solid throughout via injection or does it have dual core tube-type chambers? I noticed when i remove the butt cap, it is solid in the handle (foam-filled like), where as my babs and my volkl pb7 are hollow.

The F100 for sure has the dual core in the entire hoop and (as you have already seen) in the pallet. I'm not sure if the throat is hollow.