Forehand Takeback/Swing Question

[Funbun]

Should you allow yourself to be as loose as to drop your racquethead down on the takeback (i.e. very loose wrist)? Or should it not matter?

I've tried a more exaggerated takeback style like Andy Murray's, and I've hit very strong, powerful, consistent strokes. However, I tend to clear the net by very little and with little apparent topspin. In this kind of forehand, I'd takeback somewhat mechanically and keep my wrist in place, then follow through like a normally do.

Before, I've used a more whippy, loose forehand, somewhat like Marat Safin's. This tended to be weaker (feeling) and less consistent, but could clear the net to a greater degree. Here, I let my wrist go as it wants to.

Please note that I never "snap" or "break" my wrist on either forehand, but I simply keep it rigid and loose on the takeback, respectively.

I feel like I can put more topspin on the exaggerated, mechanical takeback style simply by having a steeper swingpath. Still, I'm not sure if my problem is with my wrist takeback style or simply another factor. I use a double bend forehand, to those who don't assume in the beginning.

Thanks!

 

[Falloutjr]

Should you allow yourself to be as loose as to drop your racquethead down on the takeback (i.e. very loose wrist)? Or should it not matter?

I've tried a more exaggerated takeback style like Andy Murray's, and I've hit very strong, powerful, consistent strokes. However, I tend to clear the net by very little and with little apparent topspin. In this kind of forehand, I'd takeback somewhat mechanically and keep my wrist in place, then follow through like a normally do.

Before, I've used a more whippy, loose forehand, somewhat like Marat Safin's. This tended to be weaker (feeling) and less consistent, but could clear the net to a greater degree. Here, I let my wrist go as it wants to.

Please note that I never "snap" or "break" my wrist on either forehand, but I simply keep it rigid and loose on the takeback, respectively.

I feel like I can put more topspin on the exaggerated, mechanical takeback style simply by having a steeper swingpath. Still, I'm not sure if my problem is with my wrist takeback style or simply another factor. I use a double bend forehand, to those who don't assume in the beginning.

Thanks!

Your entire arm should be relaxed as you take the racquet back. Someone should "be able to take the racquet out of your hand" at it's lowest point. As you swing, your arm should naturally tighten it's grip on the racquet. I would suggest using the exaggerated takeback and swinging just a tad bit up more to get net clearance. This should improve your net clearance.

 

[Funbun]

Your entire arm should be relaxed as you take the racquet back. Someone should "be able to take the racquet out of your hand" at it's lowest point. As you swing, your arm should naturally tighten it's grip on the racquet. I would suggest using the exaggerated takeback and swinging just a tad bit up more to get net clearance. This should improve your net clearance.

Aren't you referring to the grip, when you say, "take the racquet out of your hand"? I'm gripping my racquet the same way (in tightness) on both takebacks.

My arm is relaxed on both takeback styles, but the manner in which I do them are different.

What confuses me is the manner in which the variety of ways pros take back their racquets. I've had less success (and less consistency) with the second, looser takeback for some strange reason.

Edit: Actually, I find that I've worded this incorrectly. On my swing, I keep the same wrist tightness as my takeback. Thus, for the first mentioned takeback, I swing the same way; with my wrist somewhat kept in place. For the second, looser takeback, I keep my wrist loose throughout the swing, albeit with less shot consistency.

 

[trueba11er]

I would vote to keep the wrist more rigid during the whole stroke. you want to keep things as simple as possible during the whole stroke. and you can learn to hit with more clearance no matter what your takeback is.

 

[saigonbond]

Can I ask if you hit your forehand with an open stance or closed stance (some call it neutral)?

 

[LeeD]

You gotta separate YOUR hitting mechanical with low net clearance from YOU using a loopy stroke and clearing the net adaquately.
YOU control your swing AND your ball height.
Loopy stroke, you can flatten it out.
Mechanical straight takeback, you can loop it high over the net.
YOU have to adjust and adapt your swing to locate the height you need.
Only YOU can control this, by modifying your forward swingpath.

 

[Funbun]

My takeback is not completely straight. It has a loop, but it's more rigid, as opposed to something more fluid and smooth like Federer's or Nadal's.

As with my stance, if it somehow matters in this case, changes upon situation. I use closed for approach shots, square for shots requiring little running, and open stance when pulled out wide or when trying for a more defensive shot/when pulled wide.

Thanks for that trueballer! I know that you shouldn't be tense when gripping or moving, but I wasn't sure about my wrist, or if it contributed to my inconsistency. I hope there's more confirmation for this!

Also, thanks LeeD for that. I suspected it was merely a matter of my swingpath, not how loose my wrist is. I suppose I'll just try to hit with a much steeper swingpath. That, or it rests with my racquet polarization (I doubt it, though).

 

[1stVolley]

Personally, I would be very suspicious of any voluntary movements with the wrist. For consistency, you don't want a "wristy" shot. Players with great FHs have used loopy backswings and straight, compact backswings. What is important is making a good unit turn, swinging low to high and having a long follow through, finishing with the hitting arm up around the neck or lower (like Federer) around the shoulder. A very common mistake is not having a complete follow through. This causes the racquet head to decelerate on the foreswing, causing loss of topspin and a floating-type shot

 

[Funbun]

Personally, I would be very suspicious of any voluntary movements with the wrist. For consistency, you don't want a "wristy" shot. Players with great FHs have used loopy backswings and straight, compact backswings. What is important is making a good unit turn, swinging low to high and having a long follow through, finishing with the hitting arm up around the neck or lower (like Federer) around the shoulder. A very common mistake is not having a complete follow through. This causes the racquet head to decelerate on the foreswing, causing loss of topspin and a floating-type shot

I suppose what is meant by "wristy" is EITHER keeping my wrist very loose throughout my shot OR "snapping" or "breaking" my wrist during any point of my forehand, which I explicitly said I didn't do. Is the former what you suggest me not do, in addition to the latter? I want to note that I never stated that I voluntarily move my wrist, but I do have two ways of controlling it, the more rigid wrist appearing to be more consistent.

Essentially, could "wristy" mean keeping your wrist very loose and/or voluntarily moving it? It's a very vague term.

Also, are you sure following through to the neck or shoulder necessarily means imparting topspin, or can you finish around the waist? Many pros who utilize the WW appear to finish their swings at waist level. Or, does this simply means they're not imparting as much topspin?

 

[Blake0]

I agree with LeeD, your forehand should be dynamic, as should all your strokes. If you get a low ball, you go low to high more, higher ball you hit through more. You also adjust the height at which you contact the ball. Move forward to get the ball earlier at your strike zone, or move back and let it drop to whatever height you want. Obviously theres a limit to how far you can go back and at times you are forced to hit at a certain height.

Not only that, you also should control when you should shorten your swing and when you should take a bigger cut at the ball.

As to your wrist question, i'd say keep it loose but don't force anything. If that's making you hit bad shots, then work on more important aspects of your forehand and worry about the wrist issues later on when the rest of your swing is technically good.

 

[Funbun]

I agree with LeeD, your forehand should be dynamic, as should all your strokes. If you get a low ball, you go low to high more, higher ball you hit through more. You also adjust the height at which you contact the ball. Move forward to get the ball earlier at your strike zone, or move back and let it drop to whatever height you want. Obviously theres a limit to how far you can go back and at times you are forced to hit at a certain height.

Not only that, you also should control when you should shorten your swing and when you should take a bigger cut at the ball.

As to your wrist question, i'd say keep it loose but don't force anything. If that's making you hit bad shots, then work on more important aspects of your forehand and worry about the wrist issues later on when the rest of your swing is technically good.

Thanks Blake0. It's just strange, since I appear to be more consistent with a more rigid wrist. My shots feel stronger and solid when make it a tad stiffer. At one point, I blasted fast, low percentage shots with my stiffer wrist forehand with pretty good consistency.

I'm still confused about this. I'm not concerned about topspin to be honest, but about how stiff I should keep my wrist during the forehand. Topspin could simply be a matter of my swingpath, and not really my takeback.

 

[LeeD]

Topspin is purely swingpath.
Loopy takeback only adds more swingspeed.
Some great topspinners (AnkeHuber) used straight takeback and hit hard with heavy hopping ball.
Most now use full loopy takebacks. Moreso in mens than women's tennis.

 

[user92626]

OP and everyone,

Do you use or have you tried straightening your arm and swinging forward by tracing the C arc swing path?

I think Fed does that to an extent and this can be very consistent and powerful given the fact that you trace a perfectly smooth arc.

 

[Funbun]

OP and everyone,

Do you use or have you tried straightening your arm and swinging forward by tracing the C arc swing path?

I think Fed does that to an extent and this can be very consistent and powerful given the fact that you trace a perfectly smooth arc.

I have only done this once while rallying with someone, but only to try out something new. Also, I had trouble with my timing that day, so I guess I did it only then. I straightened my arm only on the takeback, though.

 

[saigonbond]

Hey there,
I posted this in another thread (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=338225), but I thought there would be some good takeaways that might help a bit.
As for your wrist question, there's no right or wrong when it comes to firm or loose. What's comfortable is best, but erring on the looser side.
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Greetings,
Just fishished viewing your vids and here's some observations and tips that I use with my students and teams that may help you improve your forehand. I'll try to break down your other strokes in subsequent posts, so its not such a long read.
THE FOREHAND:
Your footwork and mechanics must work together.
I notice that many of your balls lack depth and power. They often end up simply "spinny" with no real penetrating topspin.
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1.) Your Grip.
As we get older, the Western grip gets more difficult to swing because of the racquet head speed needed to hit a penetrating ball (believe me I know). It also becomes an issue with balls below your knees and balls over your ears. I would suggest a slight change to a semi-western grip.
2.) Open stance: feet parallel to the baseline.
The foot work here is a bit more difficult than the closed (neutral) stance and takes a bit more athleticism.
You begin by taking a small step parallel (to your right) to the baseline with your right foot. This should lift your left heel off the ground slightly (toe still touching the court). Power begins by "loading up" on the right leg (with a knee bend). As you make your swing, the "uncoiling" and "load" from your right side get transferred over to the left leg and side. Many higher level players actually load up the right leg and then transfer the "load" by jumping and landing on their left leg.
3.) Closed (neutral) stance: feet perpendicular to the baseline.
With a history of back and foot issues, I would recommend this stance. You'll naturally hit through the ball better which will improve your depth and power.
You begin by simply taking a comfortable step forward into the court with your left foot and flexing the knee slightly. This should cause your right heel to come off the ground slightly (toe still touching the court). Simple as that. The "load" comes from your body moving forward into the shot as you step forward. You must, however, prepare earlier than you would with the open stance.
4.) Takeback, shoulder turn, and follow thru.
You currently take your racquet back with only one arm. This causes you to have very little shoulder turn, robbing you of depth and power and creates that "spinny" forehand.
From ready position (racquet out in front, right hand on the grip, fingers of left hand cradling the throat) take your racquet back with both hands. Don't release it until your left arm and racquet is parallel with the baseline (or even a bit past). You'll notice that your chest is facing right and your chin is touching your left shoulder. Your racquet hand should be ear high. As you make your backswing loop, trace the path of the letter "C." I call this the the "Power C." This will give you a nice full swing that's not too "loopy." Forget about the "winshield wiper" forehand-- it is widely overstated and badly taught. After you make contact out in front, follow thru to your left shoulder (some like to catch the racquet). You can tell if you've made a full follow thru if you chin is now touching your right shoulder. This is the completion of the "chin to shoulder" technique on the takeback and follow thru. If you've ever played baseball, you've heard this technique applied to the swing.
5.) Apply the footwork with the mechanics. You can't have one without the other.
When thes two things work in harmony, I guarantee that you'll notice that you're hitting with more depth, power, and more penetrating topspin, with less effort.
6.) Practice, practice, practice (what Allen Iverson hates).
Muscle memory must be developed, so it will take a bit of patience with practice.
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Good luck, CHEERS!

 

[LeeD]

AI don't need to practice. Give him the ball, let him try to score without looking to pass. He's played that way his entire life.

 

[saigonbond]

AI don't need to practice. Give him the ball, let him try to score without looking to pass. He's played that way his entire life.

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One of the best sports vids ever...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHJDRgVwcP8