Head Prestige serve better than Wilson nCode6.1(90)? Yes..No. Help please.

[Alex]

I have been playing with Wilson's racquet for a long long time, used PS6.1 95 and Tour 90. And also play with nCode 6.1 (90) since last year. No complain about it till now.

Begining of this year, i came across a brand New HEAD Prestige Tour Mid at one of the local pro shop, and bought it Just for fun. Plus it is so very much cheaper than the Head LM Prestige Mid.

For some reason, recently i felt like i serve better with the Prestige than the nCode 90. My serve, especially flat serve has become more consistent and powerful with the prestige. But Spin serve suffer a little, lack of kick.
On groundstroke, they are about the same. With the exception that i can produce more spin & better placement with the Wilson. Volley are about the same.

Because my serve improve and wining more game thus i've been spending more time with the Head Prestige than the nCode. I hate to abandon my Wilson nCode6.1 (90) because i pay a considerable amount of money for it. Plus im a long time Wilson customer.

So here's my query.

(1)Does the Head Prestige serve better than Wilson nCode6.1(90)? Yes..No.
Anyone experience this phenomenal before, finding that the Prestige serve better than nCode6.1 Tour 90.
Anyone switchs from Wilson to Head Prestige. Would like to hear your feedback? Thanks.

(2)Personally, I feel (May be) the reason that my flat serve improved is due to the grip size. The HEAD Prestige Tour is 4 5/8 and Wilson nCode6.1 Tour 90 is 4 3/8 (builded up to 4 1/2). What do you all think? Is this the reason my serve improved.

All and any input are welcome.

Thanks.

 

[fishuuuuu]

I used to play with Prestiges and I liked them a lot more than the ProStaffs or now nCodes...

ProStaffs were stiffer and definitely gave a more complete feel from the back of the court but the Prestige wasn't lacking in any department and offered a lot of control and just everything.

 

[Michelangelo]

It's not the racket, but the combination of the racket and the player. Go for what you feel good and can do better.

 

[AndrewD]

Just check out the difference in swing weight between the two frames and you'll have your answer. The Head racquet doesn't 'serve better' but it might swing easier and be a better fit for your natural swing speed.

 

[Alex]

I used to play with Prestiges and I liked them a lot more than the ProStaffs or now nCodes...

ProStaffs were stiffer and definitely gave a more complete feel from the back of the court but the Prestige wasn't lacking in any department and offered a lot of control and just everything.

fishuuuuu...Thanks for the input. Personally i feel that Prostaff is a little better in ball control and placement, cause you can apply spin on the ball. Plus it bite the balls slightly better than Prestige due to slight open string pattern.

 

[Skycat]

O.K.
I'm a 4.5 baseliner.
I'd played with the Prestige Classic for more than 5 years until I switched to the Pro Staff Tour 90 last year and now to the nCode Tour 90.

First thing I noticed when switched to the nCode Tour 90, the racquet felt a little bit heavier than the Prestige Classic.
And I felt the nCode Tour 90 is more demainding physically to play with than the Prestige Classic.

I had better touch and feel with the Presitge Classic when hitting groundies, but I could easily got used to the nCode Tour 90.
I still miss the touch and feel of the Prestige Classic but with the nCode Tour 90 my serve gets more pops and I get more service points than when I was using the Prestige Classic.

Well, I certainly don't regret switching to the nCode Tour 90, but, like I mentioned, I sometimes miss the Prestige Classic.

 

[Alex]

It's not the racket, but the combination of the racket and the player. Go for what you feel good and can do better.

Michelangelo...Thanks for the feedback. The Wilson nCode6.1 90 and HEAD Prestige Mid are really solid racquet. The only reason i never look at the Prestige Mid before is because of the dense string pattern, It is not "spin" friendly & more suited for flat hitter. Which doesn't fit my game, i play with some spin on my shot. On ground strokes, Hitting top spin is safer and more consistent than flat shot.

But I do feel good when blasting those hard flat serve and getting easy point. If i'm going to go what feel good and do better, i think i have to totally change my stroke to hitting flat.

 

[FireSon]

Alex,

In another thread somebody made the switch from PSTour90 to the Prestige classic and commented that his (first flat) serve also improved and his second serve slightly suffered due to the string pattern. He also commented that the prestige was more maneuverable. Did you notice the same thing? I currently use the nTour90 as well, but am looking for the same feel but a bit more maneuverability so would like your opinion on that very much!

 

[Alex]

Just check out the difference in swing weight between the two frames and you'll have your answer. The Head racquet doesn't 'serve better' but it might swing easier and be a better fit for your natural swing speed.

Hi AndrewD... i agree they do somehow swing differently. Yes, the Head Prestige does swing lighter but i add some weight 3 gram each on the 3 and 9 o'clock to make it feel like Prostaff6.0/nCode6.1/Tour 90. (Sorry i did not mention this earlier).

If my memory correct .. the swing weight of the Head Prestige and Prostaff6.0 (85) is about the same. Don't know the exact but should be close.

I'm thinking may be is the bigger grip on the Prestige that allow me to grip better and snap my wrist better. Wat ya think???

 

[Alex]

O.K.
I'm a 4.5 baseliner.
I'd played with the Prestige Classic for more than 5 years until I switched to the Pro Staff Tour 90 last year and now to the nCode Tour 90.

First thing I noticed when switched to the nCode Tour 90, the racquet felt a little bit heavier than the Prestige Classic.
And I felt the nCode Tour 90 is more demainding physically to play with than the Prestige Classic.

I had better touch and feel with the Presitge Classic when hitting groundies, but I could easily got used to the nCode Tour 90.
I still miss the touch and feel of the Prestige Classic but with the nCode Tour 90 my serve gets more pops and I get more service points than when I was using the Prestige Classic.

Well, I certainly don't regret switching to the nCode Tour 90, but, like I mentioned, I sometimes miss the Prestige Classic.

Skycat .... thanks for the info. The nCode is more powerful than the Prestige, this i agree. With the nCode i serve mostly top spin and slice. But with Prestige is flat... and the flat is giving me easy point. Serving spin and slice with the Prestige has no juice.

Btw what grip size u used on your Wilson and Head racquet??

 

[Coda]

I've found that a smaller grip allows me to snap my wrist better, but it could be the grip. I can't serve for my life with a 3/8, but when I get a 5/8 synthetic with overgrip or a 1/2 leather with overgrip then it all starts to click on my serve and I can do damage. I believe a 1/2 leather is comparable to a 5/8 synthetic so I don't think you really have a bigger grip size...maybe...my Slaz's 5/8 feels like my 6.0 95's 1/2. I agree, blasting those huge flat serves feels really nice. If that's what's really winning you points then go with it. If I know the server is only throwing in flat serves with little spin then I'd stand back a few more feet and block them back deep and there wouldn't be that flat bomb threat anymore. Increase your nCode 90 grip to a 5/8 if you want and see if that does anything, you can always decrease it back to a 1/2. Personally, I have to go with open faced rackets for S&Ving.
PS: I've never gotten better flat bombs than with my 6.0 85, so take that if it's worth anything.

 

[Alex]

Alex,

In another thread somebody made the switch from PSTour90 to the Prestige classic and commented that his (first flat) serve also improved and his second serve slightly suffered due to the string pattern. He also commented that the prestige was more maneuverable. Did you notice the same thing? I currently use the nTour90 as well, but am looking for the same feel but a bit more maneuverability so would like your opinion on that very much!

Hi FireSon.. Personally, I felt Head Prestige is better for flat hitter. And,Yes, it is more maneuverable than nCode Tour 90 and PS Tour 90. Hitting flat serve is sweet but spin/slice serve really no kick.

I do not know why, but after playing with nCode6.1 Tour 90 for almost 9 months. I felt that the old PS Tour 90 is more maneuverable than nCode6.1 Tour 90. Last year when i first receive the nCode Tour 90, the nCode felt more maneuverable than PS Tour 90. But now after playing with HEAD Prestige, Wilson PS Tour 90 and nCode6.1 Tour 90.

I came to conclusion that The most maneuverable is HEAD Prestige(with total 6 gram on 3 and 9 o'clock), PS Tour 90 and nCode6.1.

Hope this Help...

 

[AndrewD]

Skycat,

You should give the LM Prestige mid a try (if you haven't already). It has more power than older Prestige models, has better spin potential but still retains the all-around solid feel of a Prestige. Not as 'soft' in feel and has a higher swingweight so a little more sluggish at net than the older versions (much more so than the i-Prestige which has a lower than usual swingweight for a Prestige) but still a very, very nice racquet - just a different kind of 'feel'. Its lighter than the nCode so might give you the 'pop' you're getting with the Wilson but at a more comfortable heft.

Alex,
like Coda, I find that the larger the grip the less the wrist 'snap'. Most players who are looking for a bit more spin (and who use some extra 'wrist' to get spin) have dropped down in size a touch. I enjoy a 3/8 for groundstrokes and can serve quite well with one, however, for volleying I really need the 1/2 because the last thing you want on the volley is any 'wrist' in your stroke.

Actually, the problem Ive been having on the volley could be due to that slightly smaller size (I dont use an overgrip to build it up as I dont like the way it feels in my hand and I find it kills 'feel' when hitting). Have ordered a 1/2 (size 4) pallet from Head but still waiting for it to come in. Hopefully have it this weekend and will see what the results are. All going well it might just improve the playability of the LM Prestige mid for me (which is saying a lot as the only thing I dont like is the way it perfoms at net).

 

[Alex]

I've found that a smaller grip allows me to snap my wrist better, but it could be the grip. I can't serve for my life with a 3/8, but when I get a 5/8 synthetic with overgrip or a 1/2 leather with overgrip then it all starts to click on my serve and I can do damage. I believe a 1/2 leather is comparable to a 5/8 synthetic so I don't think you really have a bigger grip size...maybe...my Slaz's 5/8 feels like my 6.0 95's 1/2. I agree, blasting those huge flat serves feels really nice. If that's what's really winning you points then go with it. If I know the server is only throwing in flat serves with little spin then I'd stand back a few more feet and block them back deep and there wouldn't be that flat bomb threat anymore. Increase your nCode 90 grip to a 5/8 if you want and see if that does anything, you can always decrease it back to a 1/2. Personally, I have to go with open faced rackets for S&Ving.
PS: I've never gotten better flat bombs than with my 6.0 85, so take that if it's worth anything.

Thanks for the input..Coda. I would probably try to increase the grip on nCode6.1 Tour 90, to see how it goes.

Even if you can return a fast/hard flat serve, it will either put you in a defensive position or a sitting duck. That's the best parts.

I have not use the PS6.0(85) for a long long time. Can't seem to remember the feeling of a clean hit flat serve with it anymore, as i mostly use spin/slice serve. Will probably give it a shoot, for the sake of comparison.

 

[Alex]

Alex,
like Coda, I find that the larger the grip the less the wrist 'snap'. Most players who are looking for a bit more spin (and who use some extra 'wrist' to get spin) have dropped down in size a touch. I enjoy a 3/8 for groundstrokes and can serve quite well with one, however, for volleying I really need the 1/2 because the last thing you want on the volley is any 'wrist' in your stroke.

Actually, the problem Ive been having on the volley could be due to that slightly smaller size (I dont use an overgrip to build it up as I dont like the way it feels in my hand and I find it kills 'feel' when hitting). Have ordered a 1/2 (size 4) pallet from Head but still waiting for it to come in. Hopefully have it this weekend and will see what the results are. All going well it might just improve the playability of the LM Prestige mid for me (which is saying a lot as the only thing I dont like is the way it perfoms at net).

AndrewD,
I agree.. smaller grip with some wrist action tend toput more juice on the spin section. I agree.. really need a slightly bigger grip for a firm volley, but i like a bigger grip on ground strokes.

Btw Coda mentioned that the PS6.0(85) serve a pretty good flat serve as HEAD Prestige. What you think???

 

[FireSon]

Not as 'soft' in feel and has a higher swingweight so a little more sluggish at net than the older versions but still a very, very nice racquet - just a different kind of 'feel'. Its lighter than the nCode so might give you the 'pop' you're getting with the Wilson but at a more comfortable heft.

AndrewD,

Do you think the LM Prestige volleys easier than the nCode90? and would you say the LM Prestige more maneuverable?

 

[AndrewD]

The PS85 isn't really the sort of frame you use if you want to put a lot of slice on your serve so its better suited to hitting flat. However, it does offer good top as well. Its probably no surprise that you barely ever saw Edberg, Courier or Sampras really slice a ball out wide but they sure put some kick on it. Its got good heft so if you can get that weight behind your serve you'll hit a nice flat one.

Its just a personal preference but I always found the Prestige models to be ideal for hitting slice serves - especially the one out wide. I prefer the throat construction of the Prestige to the PS85 as it just seems, to me anyway, to be easier to get the head around the ball and get.

I get a lot of work on my slice first serve with the LM Prestige mid - far more than with the older versions- and its proving to be one of the best serving racquets Ive used.

 

[Michelangelo]

Everybody is different. For me it's kinda even more interesting. I can't generate enough spin when I demoed Flexpoint Radical oversize, but I could with midsize racket but with relatively open string pattern (like Pro Staff original). That's why I stay away from HEAD, even though many people say they offer pretty good control.

 

[AndrewD]

I think, sometimes, people have a problem with the grip shape. I know you'll get those who say it makes no difference at all to them and people should be able to play with anything, however, I say 'nuts to that'. Some grip shapes suit me and some dont. Actually, I think the best in-between grip shape is Dunlop. Not as extreme as Head but not as squared as Wilson or Prince.

Anyway, what I was getting at is that you can't take grip shape out of the equation. I prefer something like a Wilson or Prince so I just modify my Head LM Prestige's grip and make it a bit rounder. Doing that I find I have far greater access to spin off both sides. Left in stock form and I feel less comfortable coming over the backhand (usually just slice it) and hit my forehand flatter.

So, if you feel you aren't getting spin but you feel you should, take a look at the grip shape and whether it's comfortable for you or not. Of course there's a lot of other reasons why you get more spin with one frame and less with another but assessing your comfort with the grip shape is a very easy exercise that might increase your racquet's playability.

 

[raven5288]

I'm not surprised you found bigger serves with a Prestige. The line is known for its good serving ability, especially on the flat serves. I can attest to that since my flat serve is a beast with my LM prestige MP. I might check out the Mid for more control, but I'm happy the way my flat serve booms.

 

[BreakPoint]

I've always found the nCode Tour 90 difficult to serve with, but I've always found both the Prestige Classic Mid and the PS 6.0 85 to be excellent for serving. I think it has to do with the weight distribution and the way they're balanced. I also think the higher flex of the heads of the Prestige Classic and PS 6.0 85 also adds pace and kick to serves.

 

[ps 6.0]

I'm not surprized that the Prestige Tour mid serves better. For me i'd attribute the ease of serving with the Prestige Tour to its low swingweight (317) and its more rectangular (HEAD style) handle witch, for me, allowed me to pronate easier cause it gave me a better feel for the face of the racket. Off the ground i found that the prestige tour's rectangular grip just wasn't conducive to my ground strokes, especially with my semi western backhand grip.

I've been all over the board in terms of rackets that i've tried, and the nCode 90 for me was among the worst serving racket i've used. This in comparision to the Prestige Tour, Yonnie MP Tour 1 90, Pro Staff 6.0 95 & 85, Pro Staff 6.1 95 Classic, and Hyper Pro Staff 6.1 95, Pro Staff Tour 90... But that's just me. My fave serving racket is the Pro Staff 95 for first serves, and the Hyper Pro Staff 6.1 95 for second serves.

 

[Skycat]

Skycat .... thanks for the info. The nCode is more powerful than the Prestige, this i agree. With the nCode i serve mostly top spin and slice. But with Prestige is flat... and the flat is giving me easy point. Serving spin and slice with the Prestige has no juice.

Btw what grip size u used on your Wilson and Head racquet??

Alex,

Yes, the Prestige is more suited for flat serve than the nCode.
But, me being relatively smaller at 5-9 :mrgreen:, I wanted to add a little more topspin on my serve when I made the switch.

About the grip size, 4 5/8 for the Head , and 4 1/2 for the Wilson.
I noticed that the grip of the Head, even if the listed sizes are the same, is a little bit smaller than that of the Wilson.

Wilson's 4 1/2 with an overgrip feels just right than Head's 4 5/8 with an overgrip, which felt a little bit thinker than I wanted (I always use an overgrip).

 

[Skycat]

Skycat,

You should give the LM Prestige mid a try (if you haven't already). It has more power than older Prestige models, has better spin potential but still retains the all-around solid feel of a Prestige. Not as 'soft' in feel and has a higher swingweight so a little more sluggish at net than the older versions (much more so than the i-Prestige which has a lower than usual swingweight for a Prestige) but still a very, very nice racquet - just a different kind of 'feel'. Its lighter than the nCode so might give you the 'pop' you're getting with the Wilson but at a more comfortable heft.

AndrewD,

Thanks for the tips.
I'd demo the LM prestige and see how it plays.
I feel that the nCode 90 lacks a little maneuverablity at the net than the good old Prestige. :mrgreen:

 

[Alex]

I've always found the nCode Tour 90 difficult to serve with, but I've always found both the Prestige Classic Mid and the PS 6.0 85 to be excellent for serving. I think it has to do with the weight distribution and the way they're balanced. I also think the higher flex of the heads of the Prestige Classic and PS 6.0 85 also adds pace and kick to serves.

BreakPoint, thanks for the input.

Compare the HEAD LM Prestige to the nCode Tour 90.
From the spec, the swing weight for the Wilson nCode Tour 90 is 330 and the HEAD LM Prestige Mid is 340. But many said that the one with the better Manueverability and swing easier, is HEAD Prstige. Do you agree??

 

[Alex]

AndrewD.. i agree to you. Grip shape has an affect on how a person play. If you don't feel right, you don't play well. As simple as that.

In stock version, between the Old HEAD Prestige and New HEAD LM Prestige Mid. In your opinion, what is the biggest difference between them that you have notice?

 

[AndrewD]

Alex,
in stock form (and they really dont require any modifications to play well) Id say the biggest differences are those Ive outlined already. The LM has more power, therefore less control (but still more than most frames), has a sharper/'tinnier' feel (lacks the very soft, almost muted feel), is easier to generate topspin with and easier to get more bite on slice shots, swings heavier (due to the higher swingweight), doesn't volley quite as well (due to the higher swingweight) and that's about it.

If you want more spin and more power go for the LM Prestige (Im generalising here). If you want a more comfortable feel and more 'touch' then go for the older Prestige.

Remember though, its all a trade-off. I dont volley as well with the LM Prestige mid as my older Prestige, HOWEVER, I get more pace on my serve as well as more spin and slice. So what I lose on the volley I gain on the serve. If I go back to the old Prestige I pick up on the volley but lose pace on the serve.

One other thing though. Ive experienced absolutely no discomfort using the LM Prestige mid. So, while it mightn't have the comfortable, soft feel of the older versions it is still a very arm friendly racquet.

 

[Alex]

AndrewD... Thanks for the feedback. It clear most of my query.
All these talk about the Prestige, is making me thinking of ditching the Wilson nCode Tour 90 and become a HEAD Prestige user.

With my newly developed flat serve, my interest for Wilson PS6.0(85) all of sudden arises. In your opinion, Does the Wilson PS6.0(85) and HEAD Prestige Mid feel and play the same?

 

[AndrewD]

Others are more qualified to talk about the PS85 than me as Ive only had limited time hitting with it. However, I dont think the two frames are similar at all. Much more flex and comfort with the Prestige, heavier weight on the PS85 but perhaps a bit more innate power (due to the weight). The PS85 might be a better racquet at the net but the overall weight can be a minus if you aren't strong and/or playing regularly. Both require a longer swing length to generate good power. The LM can be used by someone with a medium swing if they string at low tensions but it's far better if you have a longer swing.

Take advantage of the fact you can demo these frames and see what you think. Dont, however, discount the newer style racquets (Im even looking in to the Bab PD standard) as they offer some things the older style ones dont.

The only thing Id suggest is keeping everything very simple.

1) work out what your swing speed is (fast, medium of slow)
2) be very honest in your appraisal of your swing speed
3) look for a racquet where the swingweight matches your swingspeed (if you swing very fast I personally dont think a light racquet is for you. If you swing slowly then a heavy one- especially with a small head- will be a liability)
4) when you've got a short list
5) decide what flex you like and shorten the list further
6) add in any other preferences - grip shape, head size, balance
7) demo your choices

That keeps you focussed on the basics and eliminates all of the nCode, liquid metal, woofer, power holes etc promotional material that might make some difference (in terms of you liking the 'feel' of the racquet) but doesnt make all the difference or as much as racquet manufacturers would like us to believe.

It just gets your priorities right.

 

[bee]

I will just add that I have a LM Prestige MP to which I've added considerable lead tape to the handle, throat and head. I really like this racquet with the added weight. I've played with just about all the players racquets mentioned here, and I do find that the LM Prestige racquets are more spin friendly than the older Classics. No question about it for me, and since the lack of spin generation was always a negative with the Classics, I'm happy to be back with the Head Prestige line in a version that allows for more controlling topspin on ground strokes.

The LM Prestige MP is too light for me without the added weight. Thinking about trying the mid as many here have really liked it.

 

[FireSon]

grip shape

Andrew, just as you brought this up I was checking out the grip shape of a dunlop racquet I am demoeing at this moment. With the Wilson or Prince racquets it seems that I can hold my forehandgrip in two ways which feel "equally right" and with the Dunlop grip there is only one... The one I play with is (almost) continental and the other one is more "extreme".
During the playtest it seemed I had fewer mishits because of this (or maybe I just had a good day;-)). Maybe it has to do with the size of the bones in the fingers? Anyone noticed the same thing?

Also curious, since I play with a nCode90, how the LM Prestige and Prestige classic compare to the nCode90 in terms of maneuverability?

 

[AndrewD]

FireSon,
here's a link to the comparative review Rabbit did on the nCode Tour 90, Head LM Prestige mid and Volkl Tour 10 V-Engine Mid.
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/playtests/RABBIT01.html
Also, have a read of the TW review.
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/WN61T/WN61TReview.html

Almost to a man, including Granville - who usually has only praise for 'players frames'- they comment that the nCode lacks maneuverability but I guess you should know, as you do use one. If you place any faith in their reviews, and it is just a guide, you might find it interesting that they gave the nCode Tour90 a 63 for maneuverability while the LM Prestige mid, in its review, gets a 77. Also, for comparison sake, the Prince Diablo mid is given a 78 and the old PS 6.0 85 gets a 67.

My experience was that the nCode Tour90 swings almost like a head heavy racquet. It felt substantially heavier than the LM Prestige mid and also felt as though it has a much higher swingweight. I found it incredibly sluggish at net, not too bad from the baseline due to the weight but not very comfortable at all on serve.

As for the grip issue, I always found Dunlop was quite versatile when it came to the type of grip it naturally favours. Im not sure what the new ones are like but the old Dunlop 200G I grew up using had very soft bevels so it was easy to move between continental, eastern, semi-western or western. You never felt like you were stuck with one grip only (I found that with Volkl). Having said that, Ive modified the grip on my Head Prestige so its a bit more rounded and is probably now closer to the old Dunlop shape. Before I found it hard to comfortably move around for my topspin backhand (a more extreme eastern) although the forehand was fine but seemed more locked on eastern. Now, I switch very comfortably and very quickly, moving naturally from that extreme eastern to continental (Volleys, serve and slice approach shots) to semi-western on the forehand. Far more versatile and comfortable for the hand and wrist.