How do you deal with...

Meat

Rookie
I'm this posting this because I'm curious to how different people's styles handle different kinds of players. Any replies are much appreciated.
As seen in the "Why consistency works." thread I made, I'm a sort of aggressive counter puncher, with a game built around consistency, variety, and attacking other people's styles from the ground up. If it helps you to think of it this way, I try to destroy people's confidence in their weapons or weaknesses, and force errors or easy putaways.

What I say is based around 4.5 and under players, usually 3.5-4. At higher levels of play, I'm willing to bet that almost every player will be able to adapt their game. I haven't really played them much anyway, although it would be extremely fun to do so.

"Boomers":

As commonly called. These are general high school boys with "power games". Their play is built around high risk winners, heavy topspin, and...power. Most use Western grips, and often Semiwestern as well.

Smarter boomers (4-4.5 players, maybe) will not attempt risky shots right away, and will wait they may have a short ball, where it simply becomes irresistible. If you can produce an effective drop shot, their usually extreme grips will have difficulty picking up the low ball (if they can get to it, most, if not all boomers tend to go for power baseline play, and will have to run). They are used to topspin, and it will be extreme hard to get it over the net. If it comes over, it's going to be easy for you to put away.

So take them out of their comfort zone. While high balls may be easy for them on the FH side (western, semiwestern), I'm willing to bet topspin on backhands will destroy them. You can try alternating between backspin on FHs, topspin on BHs.

And...keeping balls deep makes the job even easier. If you can keep the ball deep for two or three shots with the same spin or pace, they'll probably have already screwed up. If they haven't yet, suddenly change your shot. Throwing off their established rhythm will almost always give you the point, and the boomer will be even more frustrated that he "had an error in his stroke".


"Retrievers":

Yeah, I'm still using the names tennis.about.com gave to general boy's HS players. Retrievers base their game around running balls down, and simply getting it back in play. Most, while focusing on consistency, will not aim shots or vary balls, and are just adept at getting the ball over the net.

Often, people tell others to deal with these players by drawing them to the net with a drop shot or short ball, and attacking this usually fatal weakness. This is great, most retrievers have not had much practice at the net, and will finally produce errors. However, if they CAN volley, I wouldn't want them up at the net, they'll do even better at forcing you to attempt high-risk shots. In this case, I'd move up to the net myself -their balls are usually too weak to be hard to volley, and you can take away the time they seem to have so much of. Put the balls away.


Note: Both retrievers and boomers are usually the easiest people to play, because they are generally easily countered and have to rely completely on their power or consistency. Take it away and they have nothing.


Serve-and-Volleyers:

Usually rare, but I've been lucky enough to play several in SoCal. Their best games involve a powerful or spin heavy serve to draw you off the court or force a weak, cross-court return, and immediately move in behind it to angle a volley to the other side (or generally down the line).

When they're serving, the most crucial shot is your return. If you're bad at returning fast serves, it's likely you'll be destroyed. If the ball simply curves to the side, you get more angles. You can try hitting a moderate-to-high pace ball directly at the S+Vers body, or use your new angles to aim behind him.

Even if you are good with returns, it's still extremely unlikely you'll be able to pull off a good down the line shot, especially with fast serves. Because with slices you can take the ball a little later, I usually slice the ball low (if possible) so it'll be hard to volley. Chipping the ball is great. Since you don't have time for an extended backswing, chipping will make returning much easier. The serves pace will carry into your ball, and the chip will also produce backspin. It's worth practicing at least.

Playing them is HARD. Most coaches have little experience teaching how to counter them, and it's highly probably these players will win almost every single one of their service games. Which is why you have to make yours count.

Even when they're returning, S+Vers will take every chance possible to rush up to the net. Expect a low, angled backspin drive, or even sidespin. You MUST keep your balls deep. From the ones I played (three total, they were all good), they produced little to no short balls. They don't want you up at the net, they want you pushed back as far away as possible so they can volley effectively. I'd recommend staying about a foot behind the baseline, and trying to angle deep, skidding slices yourself.

Nothing throws off their game by suddenly seeing you attack the net yourself. Because of S+Ving's rarity, it's unlikely they have much experience against net players themselves. By doing this, out of the three I've played, I was finally able to beat one of them. While I lost the first two (I'd never seen them before, plus...they're good), I won the last in a tiebreaker.



However, in all these extremes of players, it's fun because each forces you to play a little differently. Against boomers, sometimes you're forced to play a more conservative game so you won't screw up first. Against retrievers, it's necessary to move in and attack the net to produce shots that they can't run down. Against S+Vers...I'm still varying my game and trying to figure out how to beat their service games.

And I've never really played a good allcourt player. Post your experiences.
 

Mrvile

New User
Nice post. About a week ago I had played a doubles match against two S+Vers, my partner and I both being baseliners. It was HARD. They both rushed the net all the time, and powerfully returning a serve to them (since they always had some weird spin) was difficult. We pretty much lost every game that they served, and near the end we resorted to lobbing it over them. Well, turned out they were also pretty good lobbers themselves and played our game right back at us. We ended up losing :)
 

donnyz89

Hall of Fame
im prolly a 3.5-4.0 boomer with very quick feet and little pacience... and i can see your strat easily beating me :( so what should I do if they start hitting short slices and dropshots to get me off my hard hitting rhythem? basically... how do a boomer beat a boomer beater? lol hard isnt it?
 

tom-selleck

Professional
donnyz89 said:
im prolly a 3.5-4.0 boomer with very quick feet and little pacience... and i can see your strat easily beating me :( so what should I do if they start hitting short slices and dropshots to get me off my hard hitting rhythem? basically... how do a boomer beat a boomer beater? lol hard isnt it?

if you're fast donny, why don't you use your speed and come in and whip the ball with topspin?? ....... works extremely well for me if i can get there.... if you hit the ball hard and deep (deep being operative word), they shouldn't be able to get good dropshots on you and slices are somewhat difficult, but a good strategy..... i'm just incorporating backhand slice and i find it causes alot of unforced errors for my opponent (and myself right now, but it's really improving).

depending on how good you are (and if i was more patient), i would probably just hit long, soft balls and let you hit yourself out.
 

donnyz89

Hall of Fame
deep balls that doesnt require me to move inside the baseline doesnt scare me unless its above my head or to the corners where i have to dive. if its somewhat down the middle i can handle plenty of pace on my forehand and backhand. slices though, as the match goes on i get lazy and hit short slices long. maybe i should keep myself hydrated more and stay focused something i didnt do my last match where i gave up a 52 lead and lost 57 16...
 

tom-selleck

Professional
if they hit short slice to you, why not use more of wrist whip for your topspin?? ...... i'd say when i get tired, i'm more likely to hit those short with a mishit.
 

tom-selleck

Professional
easy for me to say.... but when a match is starting to get away from you... maybe focus on relaxation, good technique (hit ball early, racquet speed etc.) and playing longer points.. the guy obviously wasn't way better than you or you wouldn't have been up 5-2
 

donnyz89

Hall of Fame
i try to, but i feel like my racquet isnt generating enough top spin... maybe i need to generate more racquet spin. but sometimesi get lazy and slices tend to spin backwards and thats what cause my mishits, when im mentaly tired, i cant judge slices as good. and in the beginning, we were playing really aggresive baseline game and he was coming to the net where i can easily pick apart with my passing shots off both forehand and backhand, and when he tried to over power me from the baseline thinking im 5"1, mistake by him... i was so focused then his coach had a chat with him and my coach told me a few things like nice job, play consistant and then i kinda let down and he took over. i definitly should've won that match. it wasnt a key match or anything, we lost 1-7 anyways, tough team too.
 

Coda

Semi-Pro
I'd say around here, boomers use eastern grips and can only hit hard if the balls are shoulder height so they don't have to use spin (nor can they effectively). I especially like returning against them because they might get a 1st serve in that is fast but doesn't have spin so it's an easy block to get it back and a cream puff for a second serve that is easily crushable.
 

MChong

Semi-Pro
I guess I fit your description of a Boomer. I have a heavy topspin forehand taht I can drive deep. However, my backhand is also adequate, at times, better than my forehand. I also serve and volley on occasion so I guess I'd be classified as a Boomer and a Serve and Volley. Though, when necessary, I don't pound away at everything, I'll wait til a shot I'm confident I can pound then move in.
 

Meat

Rookie
donnyz89 - As for beating "boomer beaters", the best thing you can do is try to hold off on your power shots, and get patient enough to whack only the easy putaways.

I don't think many people 3.5-4.0 (your general opponents) will be too great at hitting deep, although they probably will slice and use dropshots. So if you can, try standing a couple feet inside the baseline. You've said that you're quick, so it's likely you can run down most short balls from inside the baseline. It'll be hard to hit topspin, so I'd practice (with a coach if possible, he probably has a better technique) simply dinking the ball back, barely over the net. On good drop shots, you may just have to try lobbing a bit.

If they keep slicing to your forehand, I'm not too sure. I'd try to get to the ball early, and hit it on the rise. Which is easier said than done. Doing this isn't too hard with an SW grip, but if you have a Western (I don't know what grip you have), it'll be hard to scoop up low balls on the rise anyway.

For high backhands, the best thing you can do is a slice. Taking it on the rise is an option (do you have a 1HB or 2HB? It's a lot harder with a 2HB), but slices allow you to get to high balls effectively with the high-to-low motion.

That's all I can give, I'm sure others can give better help. I don't know much about boomers, I've never been one.




Coda - Eastern grips? I've never seen that with boomers, it's kind of cool. Most Eastern players are sort of traditional, and play conservative, tactical games.

I'd think that their best balls would be about knee level, Eastern is great for low balls. Shoulder level is comfortable for players with more extreme grips, even for topspin I'm not sure if it would be too effective for Eastern players. The grip is built for more flat shots anyway. It'd be fun to play.

I'd definitely agree with you on serves. They bomb a 25% chance serve, generally just whacking it as hard as they can. You almost always get a fault, and then they tap in a second serve afterward. One person I played sort of used two first serves, but he tired out quickly and went back to a "cream puff" second serve, as you called it. Extremely easy to put away.
 

MegacedU

Professional
Why does everyone think serve and volleyers are so rare? I guess different parts of the world might be slightly different but why is it that I live in such a high concentration of them. The serve and volley technique is encouraged by the top coaches around here.
 

Coda

Semi-Pro
I think around here eastern grips are self-taught while noone thinks of self-teaching a western grip. I think it stems from when you're barely tapping the ball over when you're learning to just play you can't really use a western grip to play patty cake.
 

donnyz89

Hall of Fame
meat ill try to stand closer to net next time. and btw, i do use semiwestern grip.

Coda, i was taught to use eastern grip but i have been using semiwestern since the first day of tennis, idk, i guess the brushing over the ball motion i use in table tennis carried over to real tennis fast and i realize its better to have the racquet face down a little bit. but i guess im special, i dont see a lot of semiwestern/western grips on our team.
 
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